EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
I would sort of agree that no lore is "true" lore unless the admin adopt and approve it. However, there have been many, many instances in which player created and driven lore is picked up and incorporated. Gwylifar way back started this Warrior Spirit thing, and after many, many years, the Warrior Spirits found their way into the collegium quests and became an accepted part of Lusternian lore.
My advice is always, always, make up your own lore and run with it until you are told not to. That does happen, too, so make sure the lore you create fits with the rest of the lore. It may get adopted, it may get rejected, or it may hang in limbo, but it is well worth the effort.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
In any case his complaint regarding the Libellus is actually a theory that I boast often. My opinion is my opinion. Noone stated Divine Mandate is required to make it true, merely that noone has any proof that Aiakon, who was notably insane, didn't actually make it up.
If we could all step away from the very defensive stance that's been taken up, we might find something constructive come of it.
We are aknowledging there are problems in Lusternia - lack of conflict, lack of population, but as soon as anyone mentions roleplay, everyone hisses and spits like a cat backed into a corner. But I think it too is something to be looked at.
I have opinions and thoughts about the state of rp in Lusternia. For some reason I'm really struggling to form coherent sentences of my thoughts. I think mainly because it is what drew me, what got me addicted, and what keeps drawing me back. I love it.
I hate seeing people dismissed as 'poor players' for being people who prefer to rp than contribute in pk and so forth. I hate seeing (and I have seen it sooooo many times) people blocked from progress and effectively playing the game because of ooc spite (let's face it, elections are a classic example of this). I hate that people always find out who alts are, then judge the character based on the actions of the alt or the personality of the player. I hate that any angsty rp is considered an extension of the player being a jerk and thus the character is dismissed or the player oocly bitched about. And having that happen to me, I'll tell you it's horribly unfair and a large part of why I stopped playing the game for quite some time.
Ooc clans are not evil of themselves. Some people don't blur any lines. But lots of people do. It should not be relevant, for example, to discuss in an ooc clan who a returning character's alt is and why they must be here to stir up drama. It should not be up for discussion on how a player lives in a certain timezone thus shouldn't be elected to a position. It shouldn't be the natural inclination to interact in our close knit private clan while novices are faced with largely silent orgs and then wonder why most of them simply...drift away.
Squads almost always seem to be ooc chat rooms, joining a clan is almost always a given it's ooc...I just don't see how it promotes rp, and I think we could snare lots of new players by getting them addicted to roleplay. But they can't if the only rp they encounter is resounding silence, arguments on the aethers about how any past legend of the org is a useless idiot, or deliberate shutting down of each other because they may just be an alt or a player I don't like.
Keep the plotting, scheming, backstabbing and vitriol in character and it will be a far more enriching story for everyone. Conflict is entertaining. Metagaming is not. It's frustrating and unhealthy.
Keep the plotting, scheming, backstabbing and vitriol in character and it will be a far more enriching story for everyone. Conflict is entertaining. Metagaming is not. It's frustrating and unhealthy.
This is so true. Reading through Lavy's post I kept asking myself, 'what can I do right now as a player to help facilitate an environment where people enjoy roleplaying?' 'What are the ingredients for promoting a healthy overall game?'
Edit: Also, how can Gorgulu and his link to the Geomancers be "remnant of player RP" if the guildhall itself, which is created by admin, specifically facilitates such roleplay?
Guildhalls are changed at whim by the guild members and most of the time are player built, not admin built.
Is this true? Can players change their guildhalls -at a whim- by guild members without any reasoning behind it? I know that rooms/items can be added by the Patron if they are paid for by the Guild. I have yet to see anything -removed- or -changed-. Anyone have any examples?
I would definitely like one of the active Divines/volunteers to chime in if they can...
We as a community get to choose our tolerance levels to IC or OOC. We get to choose if we remain IC or if we have OOC interactions (@Delphas is a great example). This discussion should be focused on the level/quality of roleplay WE WANT.......speak up.
I want OUR level/quality of roleplay to be at or higher than what is portrayed in the Game of Thrones. Is it too much to ask?
It's false. The last time a guildhall was completely changed was when the Celestine GH was rebuilt, and that took over a year of planning and very intricate RP to help facilitate it.
We as a community get to choose our tolerance levels to IC or OOC. We get to choose if we remain IC or if we have OOC interactions (@Delphas is a great example). This discussion should be focused on the level/quality of roleplay WE WANT.......speak up.
I want OUR level/quality of roleplay to be at or higher than what is portrayed in the Game of Thrones. Is it too much to ask?
From me....yes
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
I pride myself in making simple observations....so let me have a shot.
Eventually people will take the easiest option; unless they have a driver or a motivator they will just take the easiest path. All of us can role play when we want too. God even I have been known to RP. If this was the expectation that I must do this all the time I would. Simple fact is I do not need to stay in character all the time to play Lusternia. In other MUD games I have played (which have facebook pages too ), the player base enforce the IC rules and you need to stay IC to play.
We as a community get to choose our tolerance levels to IC or OOC. We get to choose if we remain IC or if we have OOC interactions (@Delphas is a great example). This discussion should be focused on the level/quality of roleplay WE WANT.......speak up.
Whoa... unless in "OOC clans" or Tells, everything else should be IC--that's game policy. HELP OOC. All of our interactions inside the game itself should be IC. This is perhaps part of the problem--people assume that IC is optional. It isn't.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I said that nothing is lore until it is admin endorsed. I can write pages about how the Nekotai is a Hello-Kitty cult and nothing will come out of it until the admin endorse it. If they do, it becomes lore. If the admin endorsed the Gorgulu or whatever link with the Geomancers, lo and behold, it's lore.
Did they?
If they did, you have a strong position with which to argue for its reinstatement. If they didn't, you have the same position with anyone else's opinion. People are free to express an opposite opinion - that is not a "deterioration" of roleplay. If you have a strong position with which to argue against it, take advantage of it, bring it up, and convince people. If all you do is point at them, label them as "hecklers" and beseech everyone on the forums for a "solution" as though the only recourse is to root them out, then nothing will move forward.
I don't think there is a "defensive" tone in this discussion - the state or roleplay is, as the premise of this thread, in a fairly horrible state. My opinion is the opposite of said premise: I am highly sceptical of that. Even though I am sceptical, I am presenting arguments in reply to the premise, assuming that it is true: that there is somehow a problem with the state of roleplay in this game. The reasons, and the suggestions given, are neither logical nor constructive. Accusing the entire problem (assuming there is one) on OOC mediums is taking aim at a red herring. Suggesting that people should only roleplay or spend all their in-game time in very specific ways as described (no manse-afk, need to create and participate in player driven, public news post events etc) is unreasonable.
OOC mediums is a red herring because, even if you delete facebook, IRC and OOC clans from existence, metagaming will still take place. The lack of IC/OOC separation displayed by metagamers is not due to the existence of these mediums. They may facilitate metagamers who wish to metagame maliciously (harass specific people, ruin reputations due to an OOC motivation, giving advantages to alternates because the player behind the alt is a friend), but that doesn't mean you should prosecute the medium. Note that the three examples I listed (tip of the metagaming iceberg) all can be done with or without OOC mediums. OOC medium can also facilitate roleplay opportunities. Using an OOC medium to plan a roleplaying session is a thing, and it can result in very fulfilling, very enriching experiences, not just for those who did the actual planning, but also for those who participate in the session as passer-bys. Note that large scale player driven events require such OOC coordination by the very nature of their scale - ask any admin, read the admin blogs. Events that aim to inspire and involve more than a small handful of people always, always, always requires advance planning and someone to bounce ideas off of.
Sure, one of the major draws of Lusternia RP is spontaneity. You walk in on a person singing a song at the Master Ravenwood. You introduce yourself and find out he's a harbinger. You fall in love and marry a character played by a person who you have never met in real life, never talked to outside of the IC setting. You aren't even sure if he's male. That's spontaneous roleplay, and that's one of the things that Lusternia can offer. However, that doesn't invalidate pre-planned roleplaying sessions from being every bit as attractive and enriching. And OOC mediums are integral, essential to people who wish to coordinate such sessions. I'm talking about intricate planning, even down to the general storyline of the session. (I'm going to attack you sometime in the middle of that. Maybe you could consider reactions A, B, and C. I will do D if you do A, I will do E if you do B etc etc) There is nothing wrong with this kind of roleplaying.
OOC mediums aside, back to the hecklers and people who disagree with you. If everything in the game went the way you wanted it to, then this wouldn't be multi-player. The fact that it is multi-player means that you will have to, and should probably want to, interact with other people, especially people who disagree with you. If the (admin-backed) tradition of Gorgulu's link to the geomancers have fallen into disuse, start trying to convince people otherwise. There's nothing wrong with people forgetting about the past - that's fairly natural, I'd say. Reviving a tradition is every bit as fulfilling an RP as is... continuing a tradition that never died out. If you're going to point at people who were not taught, and call them "hecklers" as though they are somehow destroying the state of RP, and then quit the game citing it is a problem, guess what, this problem will never get solved. If you're going to outcast, dismiss or otherwise belittle people who disagree with you, then you're creating a close circle within which people cannot enter to interact with you, unless they meet your requirements, whether it be subscribing to an old book in the library, or not having a speech impediment.
What you expect of roleplay in the game is entirely at your discretion. But you start treading into areas you have no right to be in when you start dictating the actions of the people around you. What is acceptable or not acceptable roleplaying behavior is defined by, again, the admin. Like the case with Gorgulu, if the admin endorse it officially, then it is an official rule. If they don't, it is not, and anyone is free to do anything they want. Leaders do not, I repeat, do not need to log in every day to create roleplay opportunities for you. They are already expected to handle enemying, upkeep guards, update help files, tend to newbies, handle funds, and coordinate the people they appointed to do these things. They aren't your private atmosphere generator. You didn't vote them in so that they can create a roleplaying environment that is free from any disagreements with your opinions. They are not beholden to play the game the way you want them to. Not until the admin say they are.
If the admin one day put in a rule that says, "anyone holding an elected office is no longer allowed to be logged in the game if they are not visible and roleplaying" then yes, your demands would be reasonable. Until then, no.
Like anything else, OOC clans can be used well or used badly. I like communicating with some people through OOC mediums because it helps better separate whatever is going on in the game between our characters. If all you knew about someone was that your character hated theirs, it can be very easy to assume that you'd also hate the player- and that's always been a problem in roleplay, regardless of how good we may think we are at separating IC and OOC.
There are misuses of it too, obviously, but people who intend to metagame don't do it because of OOC clans/outside chats- they do it to gain an advantage over other players, and they'll always find a way to do so.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
I pride myself in making simple observations....so let me have a shot.
Eventually people will take the easiest option; unless they have a driver or a motivator they will just take the easiest path. All of us can role play when we want too. God even I have been known to RP. If this was the expectation that I must do this all the time I would. Simple fact is I do not need to stay in character all the time to play Lusternia. In other MUD games I have played (which have facebook pages too ), the player base enforce the IC rules and you need to stay IC to play.
We as a community get to choose our tolerance levels to IC or OOC. We get to choose if we remain IC or if we have OOC interactions (@Delphas is a great example). This discussion should be focused on the level/quality of roleplay WE WANT.......speak up.
Whoa... unless in "OOC clans" or Tells, everything else should be IC--that's game policy. HELP OOC. All of our interactions inside the game itself should be IC. This is perhaps part of the problem--people assume that IC is optional. It isn't.
Not arguing that, you misunderstand me. Let me try to elaborate further. The discussions are technically 'IC' but the dialogue has little effort, you are just talking like you normally would. While that is accepted as the norm nothing is going to change. At the moment the only difference between OOC and IC is what you say not how you say it. If everyone decides the level of interaction needs to be at a higher level, are prepared to put the effort in, and interact at that standard, people will step up.
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
Forsooth good Lamins of clan Leo, doth thou provoketh discourse amongst the Roled tribe of Play? Verily thou set angst and scorn to spread henceforth across these bitter, ravaged lands. Away, ye foul dogglescruff! Put thy sword unto thine mouth and squibble with the lore of ages!
We could look at how other MUDs handle these problems. Some of the ones I've been on have had the ooc/ic barrier was cast-iron. Any merging of those two for ulterior gains was treated with a warning, then permaban. Also, muds where you gained experience by roleplaying only. That definitely jumpstarted it.
I don't know the state of the other cities and such but so far nobody in Glomdoring has complained about my roleplaying, and they seem to encourage it. I can go on for long speeches about Night, Crow, Glomdoring and people go 'well said'.
Alternatively, just have stricter rules on metagaming, including taking out problems on one person's character on another character of theirs. That sort of thing would not be tolerated in some other muds.
I said that nothing is lore until it is admin endorsed. I can write pages about how the Nekotai is a Hello-Kitty cult and nothing will come out of it until the admin endorse it. If they do, it becomes lore. If the admin endorsed the Gorgulu or whatever link with the Geomancers, lo and behold, it's lore.
Did they?
If they did, you have a strong position with which to argue for its reinstatement. If they didn't, you have the same position with anyone else's opinion. People are free to express an opposite opinion - that is not a "deterioration" of roleplay. If you have a strong position with which to argue against it, take advantage of it, bring it up, and convince people. If all you do is point at them, label them as "hecklers" and beseech everyone on the forums for a "solution" as though the only recourse is to root them out, then nothing will move forward.
I don't think there is a "defensive" tone in this discussion - the state or roleplay is, as the premise of this thread, in a fairly horrible state. My opinion is the opposite of said premise: I am highly sceptical of that. Even though I am sceptical, I am presenting arguments in reply to the premise, assuming that it is true: that there is somehow a problem with the state of roleplay in this game. The reasons, and the suggestions given, are neither logical nor constructive. Accusing the entire problem (assuming there is one) on OOC mediums is taking aim at a red herring. Suggesting that people should only roleplay or spend all their in-game time in very specific ways as described (no manse-afk, need to create and participate in player driven, public news post events etc) is unreasonable.
I started this thread with the intention of focusing the conflict argument on roleplay. I felt that it was a reasonable discussion because people have been complaining about it for years. Simply put, I blame it on the playerbase. Reading your post multiple times, I can see you leave no room for discussion and clearly I am in the wrong - There is nothing wrong with roleplay and all this is in my head. Players are free to conduct themselves however they feel like until the admin step in. I am being unreasonable and over-demanding when I say that players adhere to their character's background the moment they log in. If this is what you are saying in a nutshell @Lerad, then I am very happy to be your 'wrong'.
Whether you agree with me or not the reality is the POPULATION of the game has shrunk and a majority of players are not coming back which I find is unfortunate.
I do not agree that the admin should have a sole say in what is acceptable roleplaying or not. And yes, I am suggesting that players start taking responsibility and define what is acceptable and what is not. Should a player be logging in everyday? No, but the organization should come to a consensus on what is acceptable 'activity level' for the said leader.
When I talk about player-driven events, I am referring to org events like the Bloodfaire for Magnagora. It didn't happen because guess what... the playerbase for the organization didn't take responsibility.
In regards to @Kethaera's post about using OOC medium to gain an advantage over other players, it is something that the playerbase can control and monitor. But it doesn't happen because people are <insert nice word> - competitive. This strikes me odd that this being a 'game' and people take it -personal-. My attitude is Lusternia is a 'story' where we get to write things in. I take offense when individuals want to come in and 're-write' entire pages of lore with the argument that they don't like it. I have no problems with people expanding it, developing it, coming up with their own interpretations, etc.
In my last thread, I complained that the administration was focusing more on 'trinkets' and not moving the story along. The suggestion (not entirely mine) I put forward was get a 'paid' writer. But then I thought about it for a while and came to the conclusion 'why wait?' (TANGENT - It took George R.R. Martin 6 years to come out with his last book... I cannot imagine the amount of complaints/trolling/angry fans he received during those years.)
Lusternia has a severe lack of leaders/positive role models. My hope is that with all the noise I've made people can go back, think about ways to roleplay, and reinvigorate their organization.
Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I did not state there is nothing
wrong with the state of roleplay. I stated I was sceptical. I, in fact,
stated that my arguments are founded on the assumption that there IS a
problem - I am arguing from the position of IF there is a problem. I
said your argument was illogical, not that the conclusion was wrong. I
said that your suggestions were not constructive, not that there is no
problem to suggest solutions for. I never stated that you were wrong about the state of roleplay in any of my posts. I
certainly did say that players are free to conduct themselves however
they want until the admin dictate otherwise. And this is an RP enforced
mud, meaning that it is already a rule that people roleplay. That
players adhere to their background when they log in is something I
assumed is already a rule. I never said that you are being unreasonable
for suggesting so. To act as a character in an IC setting is something
everyone should do. And talking on OOC mediums doesn't mean that they
aren't being IC.
If I had no intention of changing my mind if you
put forth an argument that convinced me, I wouldn't have wasted my time
participating in this thread and typing out an argument of my own. You
seem to be labouring under the impression that when someone confronts
you with an opposite opinion, either you or he must be absolutely wrong.
That's not true in the game, and that's not true here either. You can
blame it on the playerbase, but I'm challenging you to put forth
arguments about it. I've read yours, and expressed what I found to be
weaknesses in it. If you can think about it and come up with improved
versions of your argument (or find weaknesses in mine), everyone gains a
little more understanding and we all come out the better for it.
Your
opening post was fairly unreasonable, yes. "People use OOC mediums! It
is one of the roots of our problems! How dare people ignore an integral
part of the Geomancer's guild? They're not even trying! Anyone who
wishes to play better buck up, pull up their socks, and educate
themselves! The fact that people aren't doing so is what is wrong with
our game! It must be stamped out! Here's my list of suggestions of what
must be done!"
That may not be the exact wording you used, but
that's a pretty fair and accurate summary of your opening post, I would
like to believe. At least, it'd be more accurate than what you've
summarized my post as. The reality of the population is something no one
can say with absolute surety unless the admin release information we
don't know. It certainly feels like the population has shrunk. But it
may have not. Have you ever considered this possibility? A "majority" of
players are not coming back? Now that is a statement that is even less
reliable than saying the population has shrunk. While I can agree to a
certain extent with the former (I would even argue for it), the latter
is something that is far too subjective to say anything about.
Social
vigilantism can be an effective way of promoting a good atmosphere in a
society. Self-policing also frees up admin time for other stuff.
However, you must remember that no matter what your justification for
self-policing is, there are limits. When someone is being apparently
malicious, there is no doubt the community should band together to
censure him. However, when your suggestions for censure includes
dictating how someone should play the game, when you start dictating a
minimum level of entry to roleplay (Read this and this and this. And
don't come back until you've understood what it means to be a
Geomancer.) you stray deep into "unreasonable" territory. I do not see
how this is a difficult concept to grasp. There are things you should
not be enforcing on people in general, no matter the motivation, no
matter the justification.
The admin of all the IRE games have
traditionally, and will always, have the final say on anything in the
game, including right down to what those pair of shoes your character is
wearing is worth. If they would turn around tomorrow and say that the
Nekotai are a cult that worships Hello-Kitty, then that's that, and
nothing I say will change that fact. Obviously, we have trust that the
admin won't do such a thing. And that is why we give them the authority
to dictate the rules of the game: they are the admin. The fact that they
do endorse player made content, going so far as to incorporate it into
lore, shows that we are not wrong to entrust the final authority to
them. The fact that they do not overstep said authority and always take a
cautionary approach to changing the status quo is proof of the fact
that they are cognizant both of the impact of their authority as well of
their desire to maintain the game in a healthy state.
The admin
do not ban leaders who do not roleplay. And they definitely should not. A
leader should be free to do whatever he finds is fun, when he wants to
do so. A leader should never be forced to have a quota of login time in
which he must be roleplaying. This doesn't mean that there are no
consequences for not doing so.
The admin have endorsed and sanctioned ways for players to replace
leaders. This is sufficient, this should be sufficient. We can contest
and remove leaders who are visibly doing badly. What more do you want
than what we already have? Anything more draconian is unreasonable - you
simply cannot write down a rule that says, "if you become a leader you
MUST put in 10 hours per week talking to people." The lack of such rules
is not causing our roleplay to deteriorate, and putting in such rules
do nothing do alleviate any problems with roleplaying.
However, when your suggestions for censure includes
dictating how someone should play the game, when you start dictating a
minimum level of entry to roleplay (Read this and this and this. And
don't come back until you've understood what it means to be a
Geomancer.) you stray deep into "unreasonable" territory. I do not see
how this is a difficult concept to grasp. There are things you should
not be enforcing on people in general, no matter the motivation, no
matter the justification.
Gonna disagree with this simply because that's how the Nihilists did it for the longest time (until a few years ago). They had a very high "RP bar", and they flourished because of it. Your assumption that enforcing RP standards on others is a negative thing is rubbish. The only thing it does is weed out those who give a shit (ie: those who you want in your org) from those who don't (people you don't really want in your org). To have an RP enforced game be lenient on the enforcement of said RP is quite silly, and I think you know better than to claim such (don't lie, that's exactly what you're claiming). Like it or not, there -are- standards of RP that people should and must adhere to, and to hear you say otherwise speaks volumes of your integrity to the environment you propose to desire.
Lusternia has a severe lack of leaders/positive role models. My hope is that with all the noise I've made people can go back, think about ways to roleplay, and reinvigorate their organization.
I haven't yet written in this thread, it's mostly entertaining to see what everyone is saying, but this is the something I do have to point out that you're not entirely correct on.
Some of the cities may lack a high population, a high pk population or timezones just get screwed, but in truth, there are plenty of positive role models and great roleplayers in the game no matter which city you're from. You don't have to roleplay with only those in your organization, if you find their leadership or roleplay lacking.
Also, I find that your posts along with several others haven't actually said anything about how to roleplay or how to generate it, et cetera. I find it is mostly about placing blame on certain aspects of the game itself.
So, honestly, if you've got real ideas on both of those, why don't you give some tips, hints, suggestions? Those are what we really do need.
Also, I find that your posts along with several others haven't actually said anything about how to roleplay or how to generate it, et cetera. I find it is mostly about placing blame on certain aspects of the game itself.
So, honestly, if you've got real ideas on both of those, why don't you give some tips, hints, suggestions? Those are what we really do need.
An important thing to do first is to identify what roleplaying is, especially in a MUD like Lusternia. Roleplaying, in the context of Lusternia, is second person present tense writing where each character's role is assumed by their player, essentially making the players actors, using the lore of Lusternia to set a giant (mostly) improvisational stage.
Sometimes the feeling is that if you're not writing like Tolkien, you're not really roleplaying. Truth be told, all that information needn't be given right away. You do not need to describe everything about your character in full detail, just the things that would be noticeable. Using myself (not my character) as an example, I have a tendency to slightly sway side to side while talking. Not enough for it to be obtrusive, but enough for me to notice. Worthy of being written down if I was roleplaying as myself? No, because the other character likely won't notice it because of how slight it is. Something like crossing your arms, putting your hands on your hips, rubbing the back of your neck, breaking eye contact for whatever reason, these are things worth mentioning when you're RPing.
What tools do you have for acting the role of your character? Besides the things they can wear, like clothing, jewelry, tattoos, and how they look, there's also how you express them. Some emotes your character would never use under any circumstance save insanity or possession. Find them. Know why your character wouldn't ever use them.
There's also custom made emotes which make things more fun. Sometimes you will see people speak using them as well.
Zouviqil Myeras looks around, as if awaiting someone. She looks at her watch nearly every two and a half seconds, clearly agitated and anxious.
How do you do an emote like that? emote does some action = YourCharacter does some action. You can also target your emotes, using ^characterTarget.
Third person: Zouviqil , upon spotting Viravain, dips into a deep, polite bow. She looks no higher than Viravain's feet, as if worried she may offend Her.
Viravain's view: Zouviqil , upon spotting you, dips into a deep, polite bow. She looks no higher than your feet, as if worried she may
What was entered: emote , upon spotting ^Viravain, dips into a deep, polite bow. She looks no higher than ^Viravain's feet, as if worried she may offend ^Viravain_Her.
Aside from the above emotes, there are also different ways to say things and to emote in says, either with emoticons at the end of a say statement say Overly emoting can be a bad thing, but for now, try it out! :> or with special says, like, whine I need more people to booootheeeer. You can also say things to people using say to Person, such as say to Anita Have I told you lately that I love you? or sigh to Aerdiya That's the way the cookie crumbles. There's also emoting IN says, which gets a bit... trickier.
Positively loopy, Zouviqil says, "Look, a pink elephant with a tea cup! I want to hug it."
The above line can be achieved by my doing "say (Positively loopy) look, a pink elephant with a tea cup! I want to hug it". The standard pattern is say (some emote-y stuff) Words to say = Some emote-y stuff, YourCharacter says, "Words to say." You also may occasionally see people with emotes mid-say, such as Lifting a hand daintily to her neckline, Svorai whispers, "There are few people worse in the Basin than the stagnant." She pauses, considering her own words thoughtfully. Before one can come to a response, she adds, "Aside from those who would actively oppose the Wyrd, that is." . It looks like there's some big secret going on here, but there's not. For this to work, Svorai would need to do say (Lifting a hand daintily to her neckline) There are few people worse in the Basin than the stagnant." She pauses, considering her own words thoughtfully. Before one can come to a response, she adds, "Aside from those who would actively oppose the Wyrd, that is. In order for this to work seamlessly, one must recall that each says statement begins with a quotation mark and enter with a quotation mark.
Take care to note, however, that when doing any sort of says, you can not use ^CharacterTarget for targeting your says. Doing say (Eying ^Aramel cautiously) Why should I trust you?? will result in Eying ^Aramel cautiously, Zouviqil asks, "Why should I trust you?" and that will be what everyone present sees. Ick, ick, ick.
With the mechanics of RPing in Lusternia out of the way, there's the question of who your character is. Only you will truly know who you want them to be. As important as it is to know your character, do not get upset if they start changing in ways you did not expect - your character in Lusternia is a living role, it's improvisation for the most part, and you cannot anticipate every interaction that will come your character's way. No matter how much it goes against your grain, you should try your best to respond in the context of your character, not of yourself. For example, I currently have a character that hates physical interaction, from hugs to high-fives. I, however, am a very huggy person in real life. If said other character of mine were to hear bad news, she'd probably flip that person off and give them a "too bad for you", but I myself am not like that at all.
Which brings us to the next point. It's important to know your character, but it's more important to know yourself. If you do not know yourself well enough, you will not be able to see where you start and your character ends. Failing to make such a division is catastrophic and results in carrying baggage from one character to the next, along with potential real life and in game pitfalls, such as broken relationships, a lack of sleep, doing worse in your schooling or job, so on and so forth.
If you've got a good hold thus far, start learning about your character's organization and the world that they live in. What things happened in their life time? What things might have happened in their childhood that may be recallable despite a trip through the portal of fate? Know how the Portal of Fate works and came to be. Know the Elder Wars. Know the Vernal Wars. These are more places where your character has a chance to expand and shine and come into being, as you will be providing yourself with a knowledge of their culture.
Assuming you know who your character is by now, you probably are dying to RP with people. So what do you do?
Approach people for RP. Recognize you may not receive RP, or "worse" yet, you may not receive the RP you want. In the case of the former, move on. In the case of the latter, instead of getting upset, draw that player/character boundary. Clearly you know how you'd feel with the interaction you're getting, but what about your character?
Approach people OUTSIDE of your guild and organization for RP. The characters outside of your organization have different cultures and backgrounds and likely families than your character's. Culture shock is always fun to RP, if a little annoying if you the player already know said things about the other character's culture.
Stay in character when you're using your character (not talking about OOC clans here). It will be tempting at times to spend just a few minutes as yourself because staying in a role constantly can be taxing. It's better to log out and get some fresh air than to allow your character to become inconsistent if you're worried about RP.
Ask older characters for knowledge. Many characters in the different orgs are alright with sharing commonly available knowledge, or even sometimes more hidden or secret knowledge, in the context of how well they do or do not know your character.
Ask to share knowledge. Many new characters pop up all the time and you'd be surprised how many are willing to sit and listen to a story if it's told halfway decently or sparks up their interest. It may affect decisions they make about their own character.
Participate in your guild and organization. The more of a presence you have, the more people will likely interact with you in your guild or organization. Example of such is that I cannot log in on my main character without getting in-character tells from two to three people from my own organization, unless the waking population at the time of login is under four or five people.
Don't give up. RPing can be hard sometimes ("How will my character act?") to downright frustrating ("OH CRAP I MISSPELT MYSRAI IN THE MIDDLE OF MY EMOTE I CAN'T FIX THAT CRAAAPPPP") but you shouldn't give up on RPing unless you sincerely feel you no longer wish to take part in the collaborative piece of fiction that is Lusternia.
Hopefully that will provide a framework for some people who may have lacked it.
So, honestly, if you've got real ideas on both of those, why don't you give some tips, hints, suggestions? Those are what we really do need.
Alrighty, I shall give it a shot. For those who want to improve their own roleplay:
-If you don't have a family, describe your characters 'parents', their names, and so on. Think about secondary RP, basically.
-Come up with a backstory if you haven't already, and then look at that backstory every now and then to refresh yourself.
-Emote rituals and skills when possible (Intense pvp fights, obviously exception). I love a penumbra every now and then in the forest, but I prefer it when it's prefaced with a speech or something to Night before it happens. Emotes don't take long, and can really improve things a lot. Also more fun to read.
-Read more lore and materials already there. The histories are chockful and interesting. Read them again if you have already.
-Think about the philosophical aspects of your guild/city's beliefs.
-Add some drama to things, and go over the top sometimes. 'Oh no, those villains have killed my pet wyvern. How could they do such a thing to an innocent creature' or 'They killed my wyvern, I'll kill their families'.
If you want to try and get people to roleplay more:
-Draw them into discussions about important figures or denizens (Refer back to philosophy aspect). You might be surprised.
-Comment or start a conversation to do with an event that happens every now and then. If it's the hundredth time Maxyenka was raised again, then comment, or say 'It will be easy for our plans to go ahead if he is that easy to kill' or, you know, if the spire of dio is raised, complain or praise whoever did it. If people se you having fun with it, then they'll try joining in.
-Socialise more, especially with novices. Those with alts, you should be able to have five deep characters rather than one deep character and 4 boring ones.
-Hold contests for writings or stage or whatever to generate interest.
-Push certain buttons. If you know they have a strong opinion on this topic, then ask them about the topic, ask why they care so much, and so on.
-Put more empathy into things, so if you had to go on a rabbit genocide, lament how terrible it was that you had no choice. There's a denizen in Stewartsville who gives dead chickens mini funerals if you give them to him. More stuff like this!
-Tell novices about the amazing aspects of your side. They might then ask others for more information, and it snowballs.
Brought to you by the guy who talks too damn much.
EDIT: Sorry @Zouviqil that I didn't read your post before submitting mine, but hopefully it doesn't look like I just copied your post, haha.
So, honestly, if you've got real ideas on both of those, why don't you give some tips, hints, suggestions? Those are what we really do need.
Alrighty, I shall give it a shot. For those who want to improve their own roleplay:
-If you don't have a family, describe your characters 'parents', their names, and so on. Think about secondary RP, basically.
-Come up with a backstory if you haven't already, and then look at that backstory every now and then to refresh yourself.
-Emote rituals and skills when possible (Intense pvp fights, obviously exception). I love a penumbra every now and then in the forest, but I prefer it when it's prefaced with a speech or something to Night before it happens. Emotes don't take long, and can really improve things a lot. Also more fun to read.
-Read more lore and materials already there. The histories are chockful and interesting. Read them again if you have already.
-Think about the philosophical aspects of your guild/city's beliefs.
-Add some drama to things, and go over the top sometimes. 'Oh no, those villains have killed my pet wyvern. How could they do such a thing to an innocent creature' or 'They killed my wyvern, I'll kill their families'.
If you want to try and get people to roleplay more:
-Draw them into discussions about important figures or denizens (Refer back to philosophy aspect). You might be surprised.
-Comment or start a conversation to do with an event that happens every now and then. If it's the hundredth time Maxyenka was raised again, then comment, or say 'It will be easy for our plans to go ahead if he is that easy to kill' or, you know, if the spire of dio is raised, complain or praise whoever did it. If people se you having fun with it, then they'll try joining in.
-Socialise more, especially with novices. Those with alts, you should be able to have five deep characters rather than one deep character and 4 boring ones.
-Hold contests for writings or stage or whatever to generate interest.
-Push certain buttons. If you know they have a strong opinion on this topic, then ask them about the topic, ask why they care so much, and so on.
-Put more empathy into things, so if you had to go on a rabbit genocide, lament how terrible it was that you had no choice. There's a denizen in Stewartsville who gives dead chickens mini funerals if you give them to him. More stuff like this!
-Tell novices about the amazing aspects of your side. They might then ask others for more information, and it snowballs.
Brought to you by the guy who talks too damn much.
EDIT: Sorry @Zouviqil that I didn't read your post before submitting mine, but hopefully it doesn't look like I just copied your post, haha.
Great minds think alike, perfectly fine. No harm done. Yours is also a heck of a lot more succinct than mine.
Gonna disagree with this simply because that's how the Nihilists did it
for the longest time (until a few years ago). They had a very high "RP
bar", and they flourished because of it. Your assumption that enforcing
RP standards on others is a negative thing is rubbish. The only thing it
does is weed out those who give a shit (ie: those who you want in your
org) from those who don't (people you don't really want in your org). To
have an RP enforced game be lenient on the enforcement of said RP is
quite silly, and I think you know better than to claim such (don't lie,
that's exactly what you're claiming). Like it or not, there -are-
standards of RP that people should and must adhere to, and to hear you
say otherwise speaks volumes of your integrity to the environment you
propose to desire.
You need to take some reading comprehension lessons. Not
only did I never say anything about enforcing RP standards being
"negative", I actually stated, literally, that expecting "players [to]
adhere to their background when they log in is something I
assumed is already a rule. I never said that [Xarcon is] being
unreasonable
for suggesting so." In my post, I also stated very specifically that
"Social
vigilantism can be an effective way of promoting a good atmosphere in a
society."
What I DID say is that "There are things you should
not be enforcing on people in general, no matter the motivation, no
matter the justification."
Requiring a minimum level of
requirement before someone is allowed to roleplay is ridiculous in the
most egregrious sense. It is basically what credits are to combat - if
you don't have that minimum requirement, you simply cannot participate
in combat. In this case, the requirement is entirely arbitrary, dictated
by players with all their bias and personal stakes, and it basically
disbars all newbies from roleplaying. "You want to talk to me? No, shut
up, go and read this before you can play this game."
In a word,
no. If there's a toxic mindset which should be policed by players, it's
this type of exclusive thinking. No one is good enough for you unless
they meet your standards. Actually, no one is good enough to roleplay at
all, unless they meet those standards. Well, you know what? Your
standards are not welcome in this game. I will grab every opportunity I
can to interact with every newbie that catches my interest, whether or
not he thinks Glomdoring is a purple coloured mexico or not. I will
relish every time I have to talk to a novice about how the Nekotai don't
worship Hello-Kitty. I will take pleasure any time an old Nekotai comes
back to debate with me about what the guild should be defined by. I
will not exclude others and demand they meet any standard, even spelling
ones. Even if they can't put a full sentence together without grammar
mistakes, I see no reason to turn them away.
If you want to live
in your private little world of everything-goes-your-way and only
interact with people who can type 3 words a second, have an average word
count of 8 per sentence, and have read all the Elder God Books along
with another handful of obscure texts in your guild library written
real-life years ago, by all means. Just don't look around cross-eyed and
confused when people tell you you're the cause of roleplaying problems
in this game.
Can we not play the blame game, guys? This very thing could also apply to why this lack of rp is happening, but like Zouviqil suggested, take a break. When muds get too much for me, I go and make a sandwich. You could go for a five minute walk. Or make waffles (I'm so hungry lol).
It really shocks me how personal every single discussion I have ever seen on the forums about these things get. Whether it's combat mechanics being changed, envoys, roleplay, alliances, or whatever. Unless were raving, or joking about something it gets so negative.
I really do understand why that is. Yes this is "just a game" but for many people it is a very fun and enjoyable part of their day, or week. They spend money on it (I do as well), they meet interesting people, maybe distract themselves from something negative in life, or just have a little bit of a creative outlet now and then. That makes people care about the game on a very emotional level. I understand that completely, but I think in these discussions it boils over a lot into something far too negative.
One of the things that can completely destroy roleplay is holding a massive grudge over something that in the grand scheme is trivial. I'll give a quick example.
Last night was the first time I logged off irritated at my organization. I have three works backlogged in the library for an exceedingly long period of time. I was attempting the Epic Quest, which can benefit the commune and we are instructed to strive for, and I just could not get a lot of help. Haezon was willing (very grateful, by the way), but by the time it all came down...time was up. I was extremely frustrated because I had taken a break from working towards circles to do the tedious running around it requires and I was a bit upset that it was all for nothing. I also felt a bit cheated because it is very rare I do not help someone in the commune whenever I can. I think it would be safe to say I do not shirk duties. At least, not that I can think of.
Then I took a step back. It was right after aetherflares. I had started right at the tail end. Many players were probably playing long before that and then BOOM, something they HAD to participate in for the greater good. They were tired, plain as that. Also, the librarian is active again and is working very hard. I know this for a fact. I know that editing and proofreading is an extremely painstaking work at times and it's a calling. Also one of the main, if not the main, aide has been inactive suddenly. So, in truth, I had no reason to be angry. I'll try again at the epic and the books will go through.
The fastest way to destroy good role is for players to start holding grudges and hating their commune or city comrades. You can roleplay hating someone, or holding a grudge, but it is very difficult to pull it off where it will come off as truly intriguing roleplay and not just really rude and hateful gaming.
People moving in tight circles that do not expand is not healthy. One of the thing's I love about Glom is that I can always speak to someone outside my circle of friends in the game and get a response. I have had great, if short, role with many of them. I have learned a lot. I just think that if we keep holding onto to small things, it goes rancid fast.
There's some wonderful discussion/advice taking place here so please don't spoil it with fighting. If you find yourself unable to type up a post without taking a shot at someone, then just don't post.
Random notation but I've never witnessed or been apart of any roleplay surrounding the fighter caste.
The main pvpers of the game don't seem to roleplay with each other often. Sure, they roleplay with their families and the noncoms, and the newbies, but amongst each other? I just don't get to see it happen
Comments
My advice is always, always, make up your own lore and run with it until you are told not to. That does happen, too, so make sure the lore you create fits with the rest of the lore. It may get adopted, it may get rejected, or it may hang in limbo, but it is well worth the effort.
We are aknowledging there are problems in Lusternia - lack of conflict, lack of population, but as soon as anyone mentions roleplay, everyone hisses and spits like a cat backed into a corner. But I think it too is something to be looked at.
I have opinions and thoughts about the state of rp in Lusternia. For some reason I'm really struggling to form coherent sentences of my thoughts. I think mainly because it is what drew me, what got me addicted, and what keeps drawing me back. I love it.
I hate seeing people dismissed as 'poor players' for being people who prefer to rp than contribute in pk and so forth. I hate seeing (and I have seen it sooooo many times) people blocked from progress and effectively playing the game because of ooc spite (let's face it, elections are a classic example of this). I hate that people always find out who alts are, then judge the character based on the actions of the alt or the personality of the player. I hate that any angsty rp is considered an extension of the player being a jerk and thus the character is dismissed or the player oocly bitched about. And having that happen to me, I'll tell you it's horribly unfair and a large part of why I stopped playing the game for quite some time.
Ooc clans are not evil of themselves. Some people don't blur any lines. But lots of people do. It should not be relevant, for example, to discuss in an ooc clan who a returning character's alt is and why they must be here to stir up drama. It should not be up for discussion on how a player lives in a certain timezone thus shouldn't be elected to a position. It shouldn't be the natural inclination to interact in our close knit private clan while novices are faced with largely silent orgs and then wonder why most of them simply...drift away.
Squads almost always seem to be ooc chat rooms, joining a clan is almost always a given it's ooc...I just don't see how it promotes rp, and I think we could snare lots of new players by getting them addicted to roleplay. But they can't if the only rp they encounter is resounding silence, arguments on the aethers about how any past legend of the org is a useless idiot, or deliberate shutting down of each other because they may just be an alt or a player I don't like.
Keep the plotting, scheming, backstabbing and vitriol in character and it will be a far more enriching story for everyone. Conflict is entertaining. Metagaming is not. It's frustrating and unhealthy.
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
This is so true. Reading through Lavy's post I kept asking myself, 'what can I do right now as a player to help facilitate an environment where people enjoy roleplaying?' 'What are the ingredients for promoting a healthy overall game?'
I would definitely like one of the active Divines/volunteers to chime in if they can...
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
Whoa... unless in "OOC clans" or Tells, everything else should be IC--that's game policy. HELP OOC. All of our interactions inside the game itself should be IC. This is perhaps part of the problem--people assume that IC is optional. It isn't.
Did they?
If they did, you have a strong position with which to argue for its reinstatement. If they didn't, you have the same position with anyone else's opinion. People are free to express an opposite opinion - that is not a "deterioration" of roleplay. If you have a strong position with which to argue against it, take advantage of it, bring it up, and convince people. If all you do is point at them, label them as "hecklers" and beseech everyone on the forums for a "solution" as though the only recourse is to root them out, then nothing will move forward.
I don't think there is a "defensive" tone in this discussion - the state or roleplay is, as the premise of this thread, in a fairly horrible state. My opinion is the opposite of said premise: I am highly sceptical of that. Even though I am sceptical, I am presenting arguments in reply to the premise, assuming that it is true: that there is somehow a problem with the state of roleplay in this game. The reasons, and the suggestions given, are neither logical nor constructive. Accusing the entire problem (assuming there is one) on OOC mediums is taking aim at a red herring. Suggesting that people should only roleplay or spend all their in-game time in very specific ways as described (no manse-afk, need to create and participate in player driven, public news post events etc) is unreasonable.
OOC mediums is a red herring because, even if you delete facebook, IRC and OOC clans from existence, metagaming will still take place. The lack of IC/OOC separation displayed by metagamers is not due to the existence of these mediums. They may facilitate metagamers who wish to metagame maliciously (harass specific people, ruin reputations due to an OOC motivation, giving advantages to alternates because the player behind the alt is a friend), but that doesn't mean you should prosecute the medium. Note that the three examples I listed (tip of the metagaming iceberg) all can be done with or without OOC mediums. OOC medium can also facilitate roleplay opportunities. Using an OOC medium to plan a roleplaying session is a thing, and it can result in very fulfilling, very enriching experiences, not just for those who did the actual planning, but also for those who participate in the session as passer-bys. Note that large scale player driven events require such OOC coordination by the very nature of their scale - ask any admin, read the admin blogs. Events that aim to inspire and involve more than a small handful of people always, always, always requires advance planning and someone to bounce ideas off of.
Sure, one of the major draws of Lusternia RP is spontaneity. You walk in on a person singing a song at the Master Ravenwood. You introduce yourself and find out he's a harbinger. You fall in love and marry a character played by a person who you have never met in real life, never talked to outside of the IC setting. You aren't even sure if he's male. That's spontaneous roleplay, and that's one of the things that Lusternia can offer. However, that doesn't invalidate pre-planned roleplaying sessions from being every bit as attractive and enriching. And OOC mediums are integral, essential to people who wish to coordinate such sessions. I'm talking about intricate planning, even down to the general storyline of the session. (I'm going to attack you sometime in the middle of that. Maybe you could consider reactions A, B, and C. I will do D if you do A, I will do E if you do B etc etc) There is nothing wrong with this kind of roleplaying.
OOC mediums aside, back to the hecklers and people who disagree with you. If everything in the game went the way you wanted it to, then this wouldn't be multi-player. The fact that it is multi-player means that you will have to, and should probably want to, interact with other people, especially people who disagree with you. If the (admin-backed) tradition of Gorgulu's link to the geomancers have fallen into disuse, start trying to convince people otherwise. There's nothing wrong with people forgetting about the past - that's fairly natural, I'd say. Reviving a tradition is every bit as fulfilling an RP as is... continuing a tradition that never died out. If you're going to point at people who were not taught, and call them "hecklers" as though they are somehow destroying the state of RP, and then quit the game citing it is a problem, guess what, this problem will never get solved. If you're going to outcast, dismiss or otherwise belittle people who disagree with you, then you're creating a close circle within which people cannot enter to interact with you, unless they meet your requirements, whether it be subscribing to an old book in the library, or not having a speech impediment.
What you expect of roleplay in the game is entirely at your discretion. But you start treading into areas you have no right to be in when you start dictating the actions of the people around you. What is acceptable or not acceptable roleplaying behavior is defined by, again, the admin. Like the case with Gorgulu, if the admin endorse it officially, then it is an official rule. If they don't, it is not, and anyone is free to do anything they want. Leaders do not, I repeat, do not need to log in every day to create roleplay opportunities for you. They are already expected to handle enemying, upkeep guards, update help files, tend to newbies, handle funds, and coordinate the people they appointed to do these things. They aren't your private atmosphere generator. You didn't vote them in so that they can create a roleplaying environment that is free from any disagreements with your opinions. They are not beholden to play the game the way you want them to. Not until the admin say they are.
If the admin one day put in a rule that says, "anyone holding an elected office is no longer allowed to be logged in the game if they are not visible and roleplaying" then yes, your demands would be reasonable. Until then, no.
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
@Revan and the other half of the player base troll
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
Whether you agree with me or not the reality is the POPULATION of the game has shrunk and a majority of players are not coming back which I find is unfortunate.
I do not agree that the admin should have a sole say in what is acceptable roleplaying or not. And yes, I am suggesting that players start taking responsibility and define what is acceptable and what is not. Should a player be logging in everyday? No, but the organization should come to a consensus on what is acceptable 'activity level' for the said leader.
When I talk about player-driven events, I am referring to org events like the Bloodfaire for Magnagora. It didn't happen because guess what... the playerbase for the organization didn't take responsibility.
In regards to @Kethaera's post about using OOC medium to gain an advantage over other players, it is something that the playerbase can control and monitor. But it doesn't happen because people are <insert nice word> - competitive. This strikes me odd that this being a 'game' and people take it -personal-. My attitude is Lusternia is a 'story' where we get to write things in. I take offense when individuals want to come in and 're-write' entire pages of lore with the argument that they don't like it. I have no problems with people expanding it, developing it, coming up with their own interpretations, etc.
In my last thread, I complained that the administration was focusing more on 'trinkets' and not moving the story along. The suggestion (not entirely mine) I put forward was get a 'paid' writer. But then I thought about it for a while and came to the conclusion 'why wait?' (TANGENT - It took George R.R. Martin 6 years to come out with his last book... I cannot imagine the amount of complaints/trolling/angry fans he received during those years.)
Lusternia has a severe lack of leaders/positive role models. My hope is that with all the noise I've made people can go back, think about ways to roleplay, and reinvigorate their organization.
If I had no intention of changing my mind if you put forth an argument that convinced me, I wouldn't have wasted my time participating in this thread and typing out an argument of my own. You seem to be labouring under the impression that when someone confronts you with an opposite opinion, either you or he must be absolutely wrong. That's not true in the game, and that's not true here either. You can blame it on the playerbase, but I'm challenging you to put forth arguments about it. I've read yours, and expressed what I found to be weaknesses in it. If you can think about it and come up with improved versions of your argument (or find weaknesses in mine), everyone gains a little more understanding and we all come out the better for it.
Your opening post was fairly unreasonable, yes. "People use OOC mediums! It is one of the roots of our problems! How dare people ignore an integral part of the Geomancer's guild? They're not even trying! Anyone who wishes to play better buck up, pull up their socks, and educate themselves! The fact that people aren't doing so is what is wrong with our game! It must be stamped out! Here's my list of suggestions of what must be done!"
That may not be the exact wording you used, but that's a pretty fair and accurate summary of your opening post, I would like to believe. At least, it'd be more accurate than what you've summarized my post as. The reality of the population is something no one can say with absolute surety unless the admin release information we don't know. It certainly feels like the population has shrunk. But it may have not. Have you ever considered this possibility? A "majority" of players are not coming back? Now that is a statement that is even less reliable than saying the population has shrunk. While I can agree to a certain extent with the former (I would even argue for it), the latter is something that is far too subjective to say anything about.
Social vigilantism can be an effective way of promoting a good atmosphere in a society. Self-policing also frees up admin time for other stuff. However, you must remember that no matter what your justification for self-policing is, there are limits. When someone is being apparently malicious, there is no doubt the community should band together to censure him. However, when your suggestions for censure includes dictating how someone should play the game, when you start dictating a minimum level of entry to roleplay (Read this and this and this. And don't come back until you've understood what it means to be a Geomancer.) you stray deep into "unreasonable" territory. I do not see how this is a difficult concept to grasp. There are things you should not be enforcing on people in general, no matter the motivation, no matter the justification.
The admin of all the IRE games have traditionally, and will always, have the final say on anything in the game, including right down to what those pair of shoes your character is wearing is worth. If they would turn around tomorrow and say that the Nekotai are a cult that worships Hello-Kitty, then that's that, and nothing I say will change that fact. Obviously, we have trust that the admin won't do such a thing. And that is why we give them the authority to dictate the rules of the game: they are the admin. The fact that they do endorse player made content, going so far as to incorporate it into lore, shows that we are not wrong to entrust the final authority to them. The fact that they do not overstep said authority and always take a cautionary approach to changing the status quo is proof of the fact that they are cognizant both of the impact of their authority as well of their desire to maintain the game in a healthy state.
The admin do not ban leaders who do not roleplay. And they definitely should not. A leader should be free to do whatever he finds is fun, when he wants to do so. A leader should never be forced to have a quota of login time in which he must be roleplaying. This doesn't mean that there are no consequences for not doing so. The admin have endorsed and sanctioned ways for players to replace leaders. This is sufficient, this should be sufficient. We can contest and remove leaders who are visibly doing badly. What more do you want than what we already have? Anything more draconian is unreasonable - you simply cannot write down a rule that says, "if you become a leader you MUST put in 10 hours per week talking to people." The lack of such rules is not causing our roleplay to deteriorate, and putting in such rules do nothing do alleviate any problems with roleplaying.
Some of the cities may lack a high population, a high pk population or timezones just get screwed, but in truth, there are plenty of positive role models and great roleplayers in the game no matter which city you're from. You don't have to roleplay with only those in your organization, if you find their leadership or roleplay lacking.
Also, I find that your posts along with several others haven't actually said anything about how to roleplay or how to generate it, et cetera. I find it is mostly about placing blame on certain aspects of the game itself.
So, honestly, if you've got real ideas on both of those, why don't you give some tips, hints, suggestions? Those are what we really do need.
What I DID say is that "There are things you should not be enforcing on people in general, no matter the motivation, no matter the justification."
Requiring a minimum level of requirement before someone is allowed to roleplay is ridiculous in the most egregrious sense. It is basically what credits are to combat - if you don't have that minimum requirement, you simply cannot participate in combat. In this case, the requirement is entirely arbitrary, dictated by players with all their bias and personal stakes, and it basically disbars all newbies from roleplaying. "You want to talk to me? No, shut up, go and read this before you can play this game."
In a word, no. If there's a toxic mindset which should be policed by players, it's this type of exclusive thinking. No one is good enough for you unless they meet your standards. Actually, no one is good enough to roleplay at all, unless they meet those standards. Well, you know what? Your standards are not welcome in this game. I will grab every opportunity I can to interact with every newbie that catches my interest, whether or not he thinks Glomdoring is a purple coloured mexico or not. I will relish every time I have to talk to a novice about how the Nekotai don't worship Hello-Kitty. I will take pleasure any time an old Nekotai comes back to debate with me about what the guild should be defined by. I will not exclude others and demand they meet any standard, even spelling ones. Even if they can't put a full sentence together without grammar mistakes, I see no reason to turn them away.
If you want to live in your private little world of everything-goes-your-way and only interact with people who can type 3 words a second, have an average word count of 8 per sentence, and have read all the Elder God Books along with another handful of obscure texts in your guild library written real-life years ago, by all means. Just don't look around cross-eyed and confused when people tell you you're the cause of roleplaying problems in this game.
I really do understand why that is. Yes this is "just a game" but for many people it is a very fun and enjoyable part of their day, or week. They spend money on it (I do as well), they meet interesting people, maybe distract themselves from something negative in life, or just have a little bit of a creative outlet now and then. That makes people care about the game on a very emotional level. I understand that completely, but I think in these discussions it boils over a lot into something far too negative.
One of the things that can completely destroy roleplay is holding a massive grudge over something that in the grand scheme is trivial. I'll give a quick example.
Last night was the first time I logged off irritated at my organization. I have three works backlogged in the library for an exceedingly long period of time. I was attempting the Epic Quest, which can benefit the commune and we are instructed to strive for, and I just could not get a lot of help. Haezon was willing (very grateful, by the way), but by the time it all came down...time was up. I was extremely frustrated because I had taken a break from working towards circles to do the tedious running around it requires and I was a bit upset that it was all for nothing. I also felt a bit cheated because it is very rare I do not help someone in the commune whenever I can. I think it would be safe to say I do not shirk duties. At least, not that I can think of.
Then I took a step back. It was right after aetherflares. I had started right at the tail end. Many players were probably playing long before that and then BOOM, something they HAD to participate in for the greater good. They were tired, plain as that. Also, the librarian is active again and is working very hard. I know this for a fact. I know that editing and proofreading is an extremely painstaking work at times and it's a calling. Also one of the main, if not the main, aide has been inactive suddenly. So, in truth, I had no reason to be angry. I'll try again at the epic and the books will go through.
The fastest way to destroy good role is for players to start holding grudges and hating their commune or city comrades. You can roleplay hating someone, or holding a grudge, but it is very difficult to pull it off where it will come off as truly intriguing roleplay and not just really rude and hateful gaming.
People moving in tight circles that do not expand is not healthy. One of the thing's I love about Glom is that I can always speak to someone outside my circle of friends in the game and get a response. I have had great, if short, role with many of them. I have learned a lot. I just think that if we keep holding onto to small things, it goes rancid fast.