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State of Roleplay

XarconXarcon
edited February 2014 in Common Grounds

The ‘State of Conflict’ thread brought out an interesting point that really needs to be discussed in its own thread – the State of Roleplay.

 

My opinion is the overall roleplay of the game has declined significantly over the last two or three years. I would like to discuss the different reasons for this and ways in which we, the players, can do to improve it. I believe that if it improves the quality of the game will do so as well. The conflict thread focused on the different systems in place as well as PvP (with a side order of griefing). To me, these are things that will take a push from the admin side to bring about any real change and given that combat is being overhauled it might be a year or two before our ‘suggestions’ are taken seriously. This thread should focus on things that the community can do to rebalance the game.

 

Reasons for the Decline –

I feel that a serious drop in quality occurred when the Facebook Lusternia group started. Someone mentioned to me the following point which I agree – ‘At some point in the history of the game, people started to take the game OOC seriously’. In other words, personal attacks against the character equaled personal attacks in real life. I cannot remember the last time I was having an argument with someone where they didn’t feel like I was attacking their real life persona. Everything started getting personal. The FB Lusternia group has become a cancer for the game by destroying the already blurry line between IC/OOC.

Ways to Improve Roleplay–

Knowing the Lore/History – To effectively roleplay your character, I feel you have to have the background knowledge to do so. If you have been playing Lusternia for over a year and still don’t know what Project Cosmic Hope is, you’re in serious trouble. I understand that there will always be people that are competitive and will strictly focus on combat not really care for fleshing out their character. At least know why you are in the said organization and doing the said killing, so that us roleplayers can justify your actions.

 

Stop making Excuses and take Responsibility – Lusternia has way too many ‘ghost’ leaders – people who either are in position of power and do absolutely nothing or afkers/manse dwellers that spend little time interacting with the community. It is the fault of both the organization for not having people with ‘cajones’ to boot them and the fault of the said player for not wanting to roleplay for whatever reason. Player-driven events can only happen with players that are driven. I hate to say it but Lusternia has none and it’s quite obvious by everyone’s complaints.

 

Be Creative – My hat goes out to the admin/volunteer that work on not only adding to the game but interacting with the playerbase. There are tons of threads from players showing our love for them. However, it should not be just them doing all the work. It is up to us to contribute to the world through our character’s story. I am dismayed at how much the Public newsboard is not used. Who doesn’t want to be (in)famous? (I’ve never been in an admin-run event but I’ve been in a player one. Much love to @Iytha for putting my character on the map.)

 

Don’t play/hang out with your friends in-game – If you’re making org/guild decisions for your character based on so-so being your real life friend, you’re not doing the game any favours. It goes back to that blurry line between OOC/IC. The temptation is just too much no matter the age bracket. Meta-gaming falls in this category but who can stop that.

 

Get into the Mindset – I usually spend about 5-10 minutes after I log in to read some of Aiakon’s works/posts to get into the right frame of mind. I do this to separate my real life self with my in-game character. Also, I do it because it’s a challenge. Some of his concepts are very difficult to grasp and makes me feel stupid. However, I know that if I go through the steps my character will develop. I just wish he was around to help me out with some of my ideas. What do you do to make the shift?

 

In Conclusion:

 

The REAL problem for the decline of Lusternia lies with the players and their attitudes. The conflict systems in place / broken combat are just the icing on the cake. People just stopped roleplaying their characters and started playing their real life personas in the game. And by far the worst thing to have happened is people stopped developing their characters and expected other people (such as the admin) to roleplay for them.

 

… Or if you think I am wrong, then prove it.
«1345

Comments

  • LillieLillie
    edited February 2014
    I agree with much of this, but PLEASE for the LOVE OF @ESTARRA, Magnagorans, stop trumpeting the virtues of/boasting about how good "Old Magnagora" was. I was there (not on Lillie, mind you - though it was my main character at the time, and I played religiously on said character for years), and I hated it. "Oh you don't agree with me? Well, let's forget about due process and the government that's set up and put it this way: I could PK you in the blink of an eye so my argument is obviously superior."

    I gave a big long sermon the other day - it was well-researched and pretty good if I say so myself, and along comes some alt saying how it didn't mean anything and how Mag is a shadow of its former self and "oh you think that's something? HA IT'S SHIT BECAUSE WE USED TO HAVE IT BETTER." Oh, I'm sorry - let's go back to doing nothing but looking over our shoulders, then, rather than try to bring some spirituality/core RP back to our org.
    The Necromentate's mind opens to you, and a grotesque, demonic figure appears in your mind's eye, screaming in torment:
    "THE DEMON LORDS CAN NEVER TRULY BE KILLED - GREAT IS THEIR POWER."


    You shock a platinum-coloured geomycus with tales of terror bestowed on villages who don't follow Magnagora.
    A platinum-coloured geomycus slaps her knee and declares that, by the gods, Ptoma Hive should follow the Grand Empire of Magnagora after all!
    Shouts rise up from Ptoma Hive, as its denizens loudly pledge themselves to the Grand Empire of Magnagora.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    The game has also devolved somewhat to attract lowest common denominator players--basically people with money who like shinies. Thankfully, there has recently been a push to get back to focusing on lore and story instead of Wheel/credits/dingbats/ikons/curios/other shinies the belong in Candy Crush more than an RP MUD.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.

    I gave a big long sermon the other day - it was well-researched and pretty good if I say so myself, and along comes some alt saying how it didn't mean anything and how Mag is a shadow of its former self and "oh you think that's something? HA IT'S SHIT BECAUSE WE USED TO HAVE IT BETTER." Oh, I'm sorry - let's go back to doing nothing but looking over our shoulders, then, rather than try to bring some spirituality/core RP back to our org.
    You should have killed the kid and went back to your sermon with a bloody smile.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • LillieLillie
    Shaddus said:

    I gave a big long sermon the other day - it was well-researched and pretty good if I say so myself, and along comes some alt saying how it didn't mean anything and how Mag is a shadow of its former self and "oh you think that's something? HA IT'S SHIT BECAUSE WE USED TO HAVE IT BETTER." Oh, I'm sorry - let's go back to doing nothing but looking over our shoulders, then, rather than try to bring some spirituality/core RP back to our org.
    You should have killed the kid and went back to your sermon with a bloody smile.
    It was after the sermon and in the middle of a separate event that was going on. Besides, he was the same GR as me so I didn't have the leverage to be able to waste him with impunity,

    All of which is beside the point, though, since just killing him would make me no better than the people I'm bitching about. :P
    The Necromentate's mind opens to you, and a grotesque, demonic figure appears in your mind's eye, screaming in torment:
    "THE DEMON LORDS CAN NEVER TRULY BE KILLED - GREAT IS THEIR POWER."


    You shock a platinum-coloured geomycus with tales of terror bestowed on villages who don't follow Magnagora.
    A platinum-coloured geomycus slaps her knee and declares that, by the gods, Ptoma Hive should follow the Grand Empire of Magnagora after all!
    Shouts rise up from Ptoma Hive, as its denizens loudly pledge themselves to the Grand Empire of Magnagora.
  • NeosNeos The Subtle Griefer
    When I agree with Celina, then you know something is wrong.
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     Signature!

    Celina said:
    You can't really same the same, can you?
    Zvoltz said:
    "The Panthron"
  • ParuaParua
    edited February 2014
    While I agree that there are some issues with RP in the game, I find your post highly offensive, and very condescending.

    There are indeed absent, or "ghost" leaders. I do not blame the leaders themselves. It's a symptom of our stretched-thin playerbase. Not everybody is ready to be in guild leadership, but nobody wants to see these positions sit empty, and if unopposed, (as in, nobody else running) then people unsuited for leadership get into these positions. It happens. It's not the fault of anybody in particular, as much as lots of us want to point fingers, it does no good, and can be very damaging to simply kick out the people who we have decided are unfit. Yes, some people should not be in leadership roles. The mechanics of the game demand it, and until such a time where the council of a city is not made up of guildmasters, but instead are city/commune elected positions, it will continue to happen. Or if we get a massive influx of people. Administrators have a HUGE BURDEN of basically running everything in a guild, and getting little or no appreciation for it. They deal with novices, guildhall upkeep, shop tending, advancement tasks, guild drama, etc. And are expected to do it as if it is a privilege, and not a huge undertaking, and are very often blamed when they institute something that doesn't go perfectly well the first time. It's a thankless position, it's no wonder they have such high turnover rate, and many experience players avoid it like the plague.

    There is no wrong way to roleplay your character. In case you didn't catch that the first time, THERE IS NO WRONG WAY TO ROLEPLAY YOUR CHARACTER. (Within the confines of whats feasible in the game. As in, no, you did not travel from a far off land called New York and found yourself in Lusternia, and other similarly not-possible things within our game world.) If I want to be a self-insert, I can be a self-insert. If I want to play somebody with a speech impediment, I can. If I want to play an ourtrageous asshole, I can. Who are you, or anybody else, to tell ANYBODY that they are doing it wrong. The only people with that power are our volunteer and paid admin, and that rarely happens, and it usually takes something pretty grievous. If you play as yourself, it can be harder to draw that line between yourself and your character, but that's the risk we take. If you choose to pick a physical/psychological abnormality, you will have to be prepared to have people try to fix you, if you choose to be a raging asshole, then be prepared to be shunned. But these are all viable ways to choose to play a character and NOBODY has any right, or say, in how you choose to experience Lusternia. If you don't like the way somebody else chooses to enjoy this game, then avoid them, don't interact with them, but don't you dare tell them they are wrong for how they play. I'm not saying you can't dislike the way somebody chooses to play, but that same person may in turn, dislike the way you play. And that's ok. ITS A GAME.

    Lusternia is first and foremost a game. Combat and conflict are the number one priority here, set in a setting that requires you to be in-character, and respect the world you are in. IT IS NOT ROLEPLAY REQUIRED. If I make a character that just wants to fight, thats absolutely fine. It is just as fine for me to make a character that doesn't interact with anybody, just reads books and writes things. It is also alright to make a character that is only interested in family, or in socializing, or in playing the market, or in politicking. ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE OKAY. As long as you're not breaking HELP LANGUAGERULES or HELP OOC then shine on you crazy diamond.

    The trick is to find people that roleplay the same way you want to. People tend to gravitate to where things are enjoyable for them, and optimally every organization would have a mix of all of these types of players, so that every person who joins has an option to play how they want, where they want.

    I will go back to the point that it is the stretched thin playerbase that makes some orgs more dead than others, because while every org has their people that don't particularly want to contribute, those that do will gravitate to places where there are other interactive people, which creates the disparity in active organisations. This leaves behind the so-called "dead weight" and it is not anybody's responsiblity to have to fix this mentality. Putting the onus on people to buck up and put more effort into something that is not enjoyable, not rewarding, and ultimately unfun is only exacerbating the problem.

    I touched on this in my post in State of Conflict, but when the driven folks have enough, they go elsewhere, because it is not their responsiblilty to fix whats broken. Yes, it can make the problem worse, but it is unrealistic to expect people to stick around and slam their heads into a wall expecting it to get better if you just do it long enough.

    I don't know how to go about fixing the problem currently visible in Serenwilde, and from what I've heard, it's a problem elsewhere as well, but I can't speak on it personally. But blaming the players who want to have fun in a game is not the way to go about finding the answer.
    A whisper from the trees and a frosty presence tells you, secretly, "But you are strong, little 
    flower, and wise." The voice shifts and expands, becoming more real. "And everything you just said 
    in the ritual made me feel safer. You should, too."
  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals
    Xarcon said:

    I feel that a serious drop in quality occurred when the Facebook Lusternia group started. Someone mentioned to me the following point which I agree – ‘At some point in the history of the game, people started to take the game OOC seriously’. In other words, personal attacks against the character equaled personal attacks in real life. I cannot remember the last time I was having an argument with someone where they didn’t feel like I was attacking their real life persona. Everything started getting personal. The FB Lusternia group has become a cancer for the game by destroying the already blurry line between IC/OOC.

    I don't use Facebook, and have never been a part of Lusternia's Facebook group, but I'm still pretty sure this is false.

    This has -always- been an issue in Lusternia. Anyone who remembers good old Lack of Rants will acknowledge this point. Facebook just brought it to a new venue, where the issue may have made itself more readily visible to a different sect of the player base than when it was just on the forums.

    In a game where passion is necessary to focus on so much of the mechanical elements and maintain interest, this sort of thing is generally inevitable. I refuse to believe Facebook made this worse, so much as revealed more of what's already existed and added a new layer of transparency - whether players use this to simply be more rancorous with one another or to recognise and fix the issues more readily (which is what I miss Lack of Rants for) is a different matter entirely.

  • DramshanksDramshanks
    I really do believe that "fixing" roleplay is an impossible task. It's either there or it isn't. And it all comes down to people. Orgs grow and have amazing rp if they have a handful of amazing roleplayers. It's luck of the draw for someone signing up for Lusternia whether or not they end up being welcomed into a guild/commune/city with a few great roleplayers or not.

    I was mentored by Druken, mothered by Astraea and Celina, and still get guidance from Tacita for order stuff and general Commune things. That's a lot of roleplay heavyhitters right there and it is exactly what kept me in Glomdoring. I've never left and even though people say "you never know!" I really cannot imagine playing anywhere but Glomdoring and rp is an enormous factor in that. I think the rp quality in Glomdoring is why it stays so powerful. There are a handful of very active roleplayers that keep it going and there isn't a feeling of hopelessness because those people are training up a new batch. There are lots of what might be called "midbies" in Glomdoring, myself included, and most that I have met are active in roleplay. This is because they learned from the best.

    I do not think any shift in attitude or activity will save a particular org's roleplay. It's all about a few people actively guiding the ethos of the org.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    To all those that flagged Xarcon's post as abusive and have been eviscerating him since then:

    "certain people with mental disorders. These individuals do not have the restraint to control themselves or to effectively roleplay. They do their best to destroy the current playerbase and prevent ‘newbies’ from trying out the game with their antics. (And even worse when they drive out admins/Divine – if the rumours hold true.)"

    Note: No names were mentioned, no actual disorders were mentioned. He wasn't accusing anyone of having a mental disorder, nor did he even name a mental disorder. Yes, when he wrote the post, he may have been thinking of certain individuals, but he never accused anyone of being anything nor did he imply who might be the individual he was thinking about. Just as there are some people who have mental disorders who are quite capable of RPing, that also means that the reverse is true, that there are those that have mental disorders who just want to be destructive and have been given the avenue of which to pursue that without fear of moral retribution.

    Ignorance does not equal abusive, although it's unhelpful and even destructive, a lot of the comments here about Xarcon's perception has been just as unhelpful and destructive. How about instead of calling someone Rude, accusing him of being a troglodyte, or perceiving him as a nasty person, did any of you actually attempt to change the ignorant and provide information like Zouviqil?

    No, most piled on someone for voicing his opinion, which may have been insensitive, yes, but some responses have been in the same insensitive tone. If I were Xarcon, I would've come back to this post with the intent to apologize, read the responses, and then never come back.

    And these responses go hand in hand with what I perceive is wrong with the RP in Lusternia.

    Everyone expects everyone else to be like them. Perhaps from Xarcon's personal experience, he's never met someone personally with a mental disorder, and has only interacted over the internet. How would he know? (Before someone says "it's common sense!" Right, to you it is, not to everyone).

    Not everyone RPs the same. Not everyone interacts the same way. Some people can be ignorant through no fault of their own, that is no reason to grab the pitch fork and begin the witch trial.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • TullyTully
    edited February 2014
    Celina said:
     

    Let me start out by saying that I just flatly reject the notion that facebook is somehow ruining the game. It's the "OOC clans are ruining the game" argument recycled. It was wrong then, it remains wrong now. I don't know when this brand of "purist" RP start hanging around, that somehow people who communicate with other players outside of the forums are less capable of distinguishing between in game and out of game interactions, but it's annoying, unproductive, and based on a lot of assumptions. You're on the forums, right now, posting in an ooc medium. It's literally the same thing as facebook, there are just some that create this notion out of nothing that one ooc medium is bad but another ooc medium (the one they happen to participate in) is totally okay. 


    To be fair, however, the "purist RP" has been, or at least it was the majority viewpoint when Lusternia was started back in 2004. A lot of people had lamented the decline of role-playing in Achaea, etc, which is why there was a lot of enthusiasm towards this game.  I think as both the population changes via attrition and jaded players stick around but get less enthusiastic, this causes RP to slowly decline.

    The difference between discussion on the forums however, and OOC clans is, at least in my opinion, the difference between using two mediums simultaneously, and using them separately.  Forum communication is not something you can really do very well while in the game, while OOC clan chat happens while you are playing the game.  OOC is sort of like having the commentary track instead of the main soundtrack to the game.  I don't personally frown on their existence, however, as some has pointed out, sometimes people get lazy and start using OOC to communicate instead of IC, and instead of characters finding out things as part of the plot and general atmosphere, the meta-commentary takes hold instead.  I do think that's a problem and others have pointed that out in the past, and OOC is a grey area that isn't either banned but not endorsed either.  

    I also think the rise of this might be based on the more recent co-op MP that ads meta-commentary to a game--think Borderlands, Left 4 Dead (1/2), and other similar games.  Maybe people are more tolerant of it nowadays because that's accepted in other game mediums.
    Everiine said:
    The game has also devolved somewhat to attract lowest common denominator players--basically people with money who like shinies. Thankfully, there has recently been a push to get back to focusing on lore and story instead of Wheel/credits/dingbats/ikons/curios/other shinies the belong in Candy Crush more than an RP MUD.
    I agree with this.  I feel there was a period where things were getting a bit crazy and promotions that might have made sense for other games did not happen here.  With all the competition, I think ignoring the benefits of a MUD were being ignored.  The sad thing is this is was one of the first games that benefited from the Free-to-Play paradigm, but as the market has become saturated with F2P games, people are both more critical on HOW F2P works, and there are a lot of games that do things better.  As rich as combat is in this game, it's not very "user friendly"--that's kind of why I think emphasizing the strong RP and stories is probably more useful in the long-term sense, as you don't get that kind of details in most MMORPGs.
    [BANNERCODE]
  • LeradLerad
    One misconception about OOC channels that I sort of dislike, is the idea that a person's IC/OOC separation is somehow inversely tied to how many OOC channels he or she belongs to. If a person is a member of many OOC channels, it becomes somehow detrimental to his or her ability to separate real life from the game, and that he would start using OOC channels as a shortcut to IC activities, and vice versa.

    That is simply not true. There is nothing wrong with using OOC channels to communicate with other players, to convey things to each other, like combat mechanics, like debates about an IC event, like letting someone know a task needs to be done. There are many things in this game that simply have zero relevance to RP. And to use OOC communications to convey them and pretend nothing was said ICly can smoothen the ride for many people, and save the time for RP that actually matters. I have zero, absolutely zero, intention of wasting time in the game dancing through a bureacratic conversation with a person I know who plays his character in that way, in order to tell him, "you dropped something." or anything else as trivial. I'd send him a message with OOC tags. I refuse, absolutely refuse, to spend 5 minutes converting my timezone to another and trying to convey that in a convoluted manner to someone else in order to plan for a meeting in advance - I'd just convert it to GMT, message that to the person and expect them to do the math themselves. None of this lessens my experience in RP, none of this affects the game's atmosphere, none of this makes any part of the game less enjoyable. And this doesn't mean I have no ability to separate IC from OOC.

    In fact, I believe that the more OOC channels a person is a member of, the better his or her ability to separate IC from OOC. Knowing when to keep things out of the OOC medium, and when to approach a person IC, is the definition of IC/OOC separation. Not the lack of any OOC communication at all. Sure, not everyone has the same ability to do so. But it is ultimately up to the individual, not you, to decide where the appropriate line to be drawn is. And more often than not, I find OOC channels and medium to enhance my role-playing experience a lot more.

  • XarconXarcon

    In regards to my mental illness comments, it really wasn’t my opinion to begin with. I had an OOC discussion with another player in regards to the topic of why people could not look past their differences and come together to work on certain goals. That person argued that ‘the game [Lusternia] appealed to a lot of people with psychological needs. You have to come to the understanding that this is part of the playerbase’. And I didn’t notice it until I started interacting heavily with the community as CL. His opinions and my in-game experiences are what brought me to my conclusions. My point is that it is a factor that heavily affects roleplay, and people entering the game should be made aware of it.

     

    How am I, the player, going to know that said character is having personal issues to even begin with without the use of body language? I imagine that this question is not just Lusternia but MUD-based in general. Everyone that has commented so far on it acknowledges the existence of it but regard my comments as ‘insensitive’ even though I am referring to –certain—players and not the entire playerbase. @Zouviqil ‘s comments are well founded, and I appreciate them.

     

    I started to play Lusternia because I love the story/background and was a hardcore table-top player. Looking back now, I used to table-top D&D with people that had severe issues and it was never a factor for our enjoyment. [Also, my Engrish was going to hell and I needed a place to practice.] To be honest, this is a discussion/debate that I would love to do in person. If I was able to go to IronCon, I would definitely bring up the topic.

     

    Zvoltz has removed the “offensive” text, and out of respect for Mysrai I have amended the post with the section above to clarify my point and not to continue the argument. Please send me personal messages via the forum if you want to do that.

     

    ADDITION [as I am getting ready to post]: I really like Silvanus’s comments. Do I interact with people that have mental problems on a daily basis in real life (and via the Internet)? Nope, I do not. Do I have family members with severe mental issues? Yes, I do and let me say that body language again is an important part of how I communicate with them. If I encountered situations like I do in-game with strangers in real life, I just walk away…
  • XarconXarcon

    Looking back at my initial post, I realize that I did not add enough meat to my argument.

     

    Here is a good example of what I am talking about when I refer to ‘roleplay’:

     

    A couple of days ago I made a post stating that the Lord Gorgulu represented an aspect of the Geomancer. It was taught to me as a novice and it’s written in one or two books. Then, the people that I have to roleplay with start making comments that I am wrong with the argument that the Geos worship the Earth Lords, the Guild has nothing to do with the Demon Lords, etc. I actually laughed extremely loud while saying to myself then why is the Guildhall called the Tower of a Thousand Hungers which has the same extension as the Pit of a Thousand Hungers on Nil where Gorgulu resides in.

     

    Then, I hear comments on my guild aether that the Libellus Geomancie is an ‘old book’ with not much emphasis on the background story of the Guild and that because it wasn’t ‘Divine mandate’ it’s not true. I have no problems with people attacking my character in-game or out. But it angers me to no end when people start promoting opinions that I feel are not true. It drives me bonkers when there is a lack of respect for the time/dedication given to past players who helped create the foundation for my enjoyment. Getting into constructive arguments/discussions with people having this kind of attitude is pointless.

     

    Here is the character dilemma that I am having… What is true to the story of the game and what isn’t? Three years ago the comments above would have resulted in either a severe scolding if it was a newbie or a GDF if they weren’t. Now, no one really cares except for me. @Mysrai, please suggest to me ways that I can improve my roleplay when the ‘hecklers’ are the majority of my Guild. A matter of fact, I invite ALL of you to step into my shoes, start some Geo alts, roleplay for a month and send me messages on ways that I can help and improve my RP game. I am open to any positive criticism. Just make sure you look pass the vulgarity and OOC-ish that has become rampant on the aether.

     

    The last time I asked for helped @Shaddus sent me a pm saying read Aiakon and that I did. It was extremely helpful. Thank you!

     

    I gave up on Lusternia a few months back because 1) I started to focus on other things in real life, 2) I found enjoyment in other games, and 3) I got tired of playing a MUD as a single-player (I’m on the Oceania time zone). Then, people started bugging me… come back and play, focus on roleplaying your character via the newsboard, develop your character as a story in a book, etc.

     

    Fast forward to now and here I am. I’m looking forward to reading all of your suggestions on improving the overall roleplay of the game and any advice for my character is appreciated.
  • LeradLerad
    I'm sorry. They are absolutely true when they say it is not divine mandate. Anything not given by the admin is not official lore. You can make up anything you want, but until and unless the admin officially endorse it, it remains as player content. And all players have a right to reject player content they feel is not true. This is exactly what you are doing.

    The Nekotai revere and worship Grandmother Scorpion. That is, however, not admin endorsed. Any amount of Nekotai can say or do anything until the admin come out and endorse, or reject it. At which time, things must change to be what the admin dictate. There is no middle ground, there is no grey area. Gorgulu and the Geomancers as a specific example is a remnant of roleplay from players who, in your own words, are past players. They are either no longer active, or no longer hold as much influence in the game. In both cases, no players are beholden to their ideas and their RP. Nothing wrong with that. For all the "lore" and "knowledge" you claim to champion, you seem to fail to realize that the only place where lore comes from is the admin.

    The only thing that is true to the story of the game comes from admin sources. Nothing else. Period.

    Interacting with people who hold different opinions from you is a form of RP. Your character reacts by presenting arguments. Or getting angry. All of those are IC reactions. The entire exchange, including the voices that provide you with the argument to react against, are valid roleplay. You cannot point to someone disagreeing with you, or a book that was written some time ago, and say, "THEY ARE RUINING ROLEPLAY IN THE GAME. THEY ARE BEING HECKLERS TRYING TO DESTROY HISTORY." They are roleplaying as much as you are, and they are as valid as your roleplay is. There is no history except what the admin publish. Everything else is opinion.

  • RevanRevan
    edited February 2014

    Lerad said:
    I'm sorry. They are absolutely true when they say it is not divine mandate. Anything not given by the admin is not official lore. You can make up anything you want, but until and unless the admin officially endorse it, it remains as player content. And all players have a right to reject player content they feel is not true. This is exactly what you are doing.

    This is completely untrue and there have been many examples of players creating canon lore. Catarin is the most prolific example of this. Aiakon's work on Geomancers was supported by Divine for the longest time. Nokraenom CREATED the Demon Lord lore where before it was an empty shell. Daevos' work with the Feyranti family changed Magnagora. Even Sthai's writings and musings changed the direction of Magnagora's roleplay by introducing steampunk. So no, official lore is not just divine mandate, and frankly that's a poor argument to make on the whole.

    Edit: Also, how can Gorgulu and his link to the Geomancers be  "remnant of player RP" if the guildhall itself, which is created by admin, specifically facilitates such roleplay?
  • XarconXarcon
    Lerad said:
    Lusternia is not a job. Lusternia is a game. If a player in a leader position wants to afk in their manse, it's entirely their right. If you don't like it, contest them. This has zero relevance to roleplay.

    Sorry, I wanted to disagree with the post having the following comment above.

    No, it's not alright for the leader of an organization to sit in their manse afk. And yes, I have contested in the past and lost. The playerbase complains of a lack of conflict in the game but then support individuals that do nothing. My hands are tied. I am only one player and if the majority wants to go a different way then I become the minority. I cannot stop people from being hypocritical. I can only work on my own character development.

    Being able to teach people the concept of your organization starts from the top. When a newbie enters the game and sees who the Guild leaders are, they will gravitate to those players because they are the leaders. Having someone that is not around or mindless is not helpful for the overall roleplay or health of the game (such as moving the story along). It adds to the frustration of people.

    Lusternia is a game that revolves around having a -love- for writing and good skills for it. If you do not like to write or find it difficult (like I do), then it is a challenge not a job. A job pays with a physical reward. A challenge offers an opportunity for growth. The former is repetitive and the latter is terrifying.


  • XarconXarcon
    Xenthos said:
    First step: You are not playing a single-player game.  If someone disagrees with you, it does not necessarily mean that they are wrong and you are right.  Over years, some things can and will change.  I cannot speak about the Geomancers in general, but Glomdoring itself has evolved significantly over time.  You can't be wedded to the "old ways" but need to be willing to plumb the depths of the roleplay as it exists now.  Perhaps you can help guide it back to the way it was, but it would need to be done with the assistance and support of the other players.  At the same time you need to be open to the possibility of changing yourself, and going in a new direction.  You (and other players) can invest more time to explore the new direction too, and that should also be fun... as long as you're not angsting about the past.
    I like your comments a lot Xenthos. I felt with the introduction of Geochemantics it offered an awesome RP opportunity to take Geo lore to a completely different level and direction. I lament at the fact that it hasn't been done. And, I take some of the blame for not pushing it. Time is not exactly something that I have a lot of commodity so I have to pick and choose with what I want to roleplay with. Maybe in the future I'll work on it.

    I have no problems with other guild members presenting arguments and starting discussions on key elements of the lore but come on... Geomancers... Earth... Foundation... This isn't the Aquamancers guild that we are talking about that probably flow like water with their RP.  And if people are going to start running counter with established 'traditions' they better come out with a hardcore 50-page book and some solid evidence to support their claim.
  • XarconXarcon
    Lerad said:
    I'm sorry. They are absolutely true when they say it is not divine mandate. Anything not given by the admin is not official lore. You can make up anything you want, but until and unless the admin officially endorse it, it remains as player content. And all players have a right to reject player content they feel is not true. This is exactly what you are doing.

    The Nekotai revere and worship Grandmother Scorpion. That is, however, not admin endorsed. Any amount of Nekotai can say or do anything until the admin come out and endorse, or reject it. At which time, things must change to be what the admin dictate. There is no middle ground, there is no grey area. Gorgulu and the Geomancers as a specific example is a remnant of roleplay from players who, in your own words, are past players. They are either no longer active, or no longer hold as much influence in the game. In both cases, no players are beholden to their ideas and their RP. Nothing wrong with that. For all the "lore" and "knowledge" you claim to champion, you seem to fail to realize that the only place where lore comes from is the admin.

    The only thing that is true to the story of the game comes from admin sources. Nothing else. Period.

    Interacting with people who hold different opinions from you is a form of RP. Your character reacts by presenting arguments. Or getting angry. All of those are IC reactions. The entire exchange, including the voices that provide you with the argument to react against, are valid roleplay. You cannot point to someone disagreeing with you, or a book that was written some time ago, and say, "THEY ARE RUINING ROLEPLAY IN THE GAME. THEY ARE BEING HECKLERS TRYING TO DESTROY HISTORY." They are roleplaying as much as you are, and they are as valid as your roleplay is. There is no history except what the admin publish. Everything else is opinion.
    Yes and no... I agree that the interaction offers an opportunity for RP.

    I disagree with you in that they are destroying a history that has already been written. That is what history is... there is a beginning, a present day story, and the future. The former has already happened via all the in-game newsboard posts, etc. If I took my character and moved him to Celest... How long will it take before people started trusting the 'Taintling'? No matter the time people will always regard my character as a 'former' Magnagoran. It is part of what makes my history and influences my roleplay.

    I think what I'm trying to say is that I cannot agree with your claim that the only history that matters is the admin approved ones especially since my opening statement included a section on 'Be Creative'. Why should I leave the development of the game entirely in the hands of the volunteers and IRE? Am I not part of the story?


  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    There are very few people who consider Xenthos "the former Serenwilder," so that's not going to always be the case (especially if you were in Celest for 6+ real life years).  By then, almost nobody would ever even remember your past.
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  • MunsiaMunsia The Supreme Goddess
    Revan said:

    Edit: Also, how can Gorgulu and his link to the Geomancers be  "remnant of player RP" if the guildhall itself, which is created by admin, specifically facilitates such roleplay?
    Guildhalls are changed at whim by the guild members and most of the time are player built, not admin built. 
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