I'm basically asking for a system to be coded into the game to manage it like mortal building is managed, so that players with the correct perms in orgs can handle building things for the org, instead of writing suggestions and waiting for a god to have the time to do it, however that god ultimately sees the project going. That way, not only are you increasing player agency (and involvement, they created something in their org, instead of dropping 5mil into an envelope and waiting around for npc bob the builder to erect it), you can also lessen the burden on patrons for limited things. Having something like a tenement that the commune can pay to reconstruct or reconfigure would be very cool
This post has nothing to do with homesteads, and is just a reply to Enyalida's suggestions.
I'd like the play the devil's advocate here for this discussion and argue against Enyalida's suggestion. I believe that a hard coded system to streamline, allow and easily create new expansion of the game world by player agency is not neccesarily something the game needs. I don't feel that having a system that allows players to essentially "build", or more accurately, expand on the actual game world with only limited oversight from the admin is going to be healthy for the game's atmosphere. By atmosphere I don't mean the sense of investment, involvement and stake that players will have with such a system. I mean instead the atmosphere of the game world as a mysterious, special place. Getting a sense of involvement and a stake in the building and creation of the game world is one that will give many players a great sense of satisfaction, I am sure. However, I feel it will also erode into the experience of seeing actual, admin area releases, as expanding the game world will become 'just' an outlet of player expression of creativity ala trade skills.
Homesteads are privately owned, and will probably be kept from easy public use to every player (most probably it'll be restricted to the owner's org-mates or friends) and are thus not as visible. They are also, currently, extremely expensive, so the only people who would spend so much on something so private are the people who have nothing much else to spend on... and will likely not be willing to easily allow not-so-close friends access. In other words, it's a close system with a high barrier of entry, and with incentive for the owner to limit other people's experience of it. It's a selfish product, not made to be shared.
However, if a system of actual player building and player expansion goes in, those rooms that are made will become very public. While still org territory, it is still an actual part of the game world that is stamped with the indelible mark of its creator. These rooms will be made to be shared, just like player crafted trade items. These rooms will become a product, an avenue, a place for players to show off their own building (writing) skills. While this is not inherently a bad thing, (and sharing your talent to make the gaming experience better for others in your org is a very good thing) it will lessen the veneer of mystery that will surround an actual new area release by an admin. "Area release? Right fine, that's cool and all. We had something similar every week for the past two months in our own org. And hey, I think my writing is better than what's put into this 'new' area. Hah."
Currently, area or room expansion in the game world is rare because (as the thread about new areas explains) the process is difficult, complicated, and takes a great deal of effort and commitment from a very small team with limited resources. By the very nature of this rarity, area releases are given a sense of urgent excitement. "It's FINALLY here! Oh my GOD!" While this quality is probably not intended (I'm sure the admin would rather put out areas faster) it IS something good for the actual experience of players. It colours the event that presages or accompanies these area releases with an additional (though false) sense of excitement and immediacy. By crowd-sourcing such releases via a coded system that allows players to do expansions, however, this sense of rain-after-a-drought that accompanies an admin area release will be obliterated. Even if the "doomsday" scenarios from my above paragraphs of blunting the magic of admin area release doesn't come to pass, at the very least, this certainly will.
The question is whether or not allowing players to feel a sense of involvement in the game by making a room building system is enough of an advantage that we can afford to sacrifice some of the magic of an admin area release. Somehow, I feel that it isn't.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
That is the biggest turn off for me. My character is a druid, his guild hall is a hill with a cavern hidden below it. He'll argue that the true path of nature is one where we work with nature rather than building on top of it (this has increased to the point where he doesn't think that the Moondancers tower is entirely appropriate.)
I don't feel that it is... abnormal for people in the communes to want to build homesteads that are more... well naturey. So, I guess I would suggest that the "default" should be more based on your city or commune than a hard and fast rule for everyone.
For example, I'd expect like... sylvan forest for Serenwilde, wyrden forest for Glomdoring, and tainted urban for Magnagora to be their default terrains. Trying to construct something that goes against that should come at a cost but something that fits in shouldn't.
While your idea is decent in general, you're missing something important: Seren forest != sylvan forest.
Sylvan forest is the "pure" ethereal type (go to Faethorn and trueground, you'll see it is Sylvan).
Seren forest is just regular "forest".
So I would personally go with forest for Serenwilde, Wyrden forest for Glomdoring, volcanic urban for Gaudiguch, and so on; as you say, make it match the general type of the area. Sylvan should stay in Faethorn!
There actually is no 'wyrden forest' or 'urban taint' environment. Surprise! The areas (glomdoring/magnagora) are flagged so that any forest in glom or any room in mag that shows up as wyrden/taint, respectively. There's certainly no volcanic urban.
We can however default homesteads as forest for communes (or maybe trees?).
There actually is no 'wyrden forest' or 'urban taint' environment. Surprise! The areas (glomdoring/magnagora) are flagged so that any forest in glom or any room in mag that shows up as wyrden/taint, respectively. There's certainly no volcanic urban.
We can however default homesteads as forest for communes (or maybe trees?).
I think that would be best. My impression is that both communes wish to minimize on artificial constructions as much as possible as their beliefs usually are against this aspect commonly attributed to cities.
That's like saying the Gungans were awesome in Episode 1 forgetting that if you removed them from existence there wouldn't be a Jar Jar Binks!*
Interestingly there is a Wyrden Urban, for the Black Tower, but I (personally) see other constructs within Glomdoring as being made with, or possibly inside the hollow of, natural environments.
*That said I wouldn't have made it through college doing custom Jar Jar Binks voiced answer messages, I have no shame.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
While your idea is decent in general, you're missing something important: Seren forest != sylvan forest.
Sylvan forest is the "pure" ethereal type (go to Faethorn and trueground, you'll see it is Sylvan).
Seren forest is just regular "forest".
So I would personally go with forest for Serenwilde, Wyrden forest for Glomdoring, volcanic urban for Gaudiguch, and so on; as you say, make it match the general type of the area. Sylvan should stay in Faethorn!
There actually is no 'wyrden forest' or 'urban taint' environment. Surprise! The areas (glomdoring/magnagora) are flagged so that any forest in glom or any room in mag that shows up as wyrden/taint, respectively. There's certainly no volcanic urban.
We can however default homesteads as forest for communes (or maybe trees?).
I'd say that works better than just indoor urban. As for forest vs trees, that would depend I suppose on the design of the homestead.
For example, I would imagine a small grove surrounding a large tree, with enormous tree holes in it. Big enough that it's crown is it's own room, which to me might make sense as a "trees" location rather than "forest", while the ground level would be forest.
And I am already considering things such as a teleport where you dive from the canopy into a pool below to exit.
No explorer flags for these rooms please. Adding an extra layer of difficulty to getting the top ranked explorer status is going too far - there are no Planeswalkers in Lusternia anymore due to the sheer size of the place and this'll just exacerbate the situation.
@Chade I'm still convinced a couple months back something bugged, but it sure is hard to know since the XML and in game maps are so horribly incomplete
Comments
I'd like the play the devil's advocate here for this discussion and argue against Enyalida's suggestion. I believe that a hard coded system to streamline, allow and easily create new expansion of the game world by player agency is not neccesarily something the game needs. I don't feel that having a system that allows players to essentially "build", or more accurately, expand on the actual game world with only limited oversight from the admin is going to be healthy for the game's atmosphere. By atmosphere I don't mean the sense of investment, involvement and stake that players will have with such a system. I mean instead the atmosphere of the game world as a mysterious, special place. Getting a sense of involvement and a stake in the building and creation of the game world is one that will give many players a great sense of satisfaction, I am sure. However, I feel it will also erode into the experience of seeing actual, admin area releases, as expanding the game world will become 'just' an outlet of player expression of creativity ala trade skills.
Homesteads are privately owned, and will probably be kept from easy public use to every player (most probably it'll be restricted to the owner's org-mates or friends) and are thus not as visible. They are also, currently, extremely expensive, so the only people who would spend so much on something so private are the people who have nothing much else to spend on... and will likely not be willing to easily allow not-so-close friends access. In other words, it's a close system with a high barrier of entry, and with incentive for the owner to limit other people's experience of it. It's a selfish product, not made to be shared.
However, if a system of actual player building and player expansion goes in, those rooms that are made will become very public. While still org territory, it is still an actual part of the game world that is stamped with the indelible mark of its creator. These rooms will be made to be shared, just like player crafted trade items. These rooms will become a product, an avenue, a place for players to show off their own building (writing) skills. While this is not inherently a bad thing, (and sharing your talent to make the gaming experience better for others in your org is a very good thing) it will lessen the veneer of mystery that will surround an actual new area release by an admin. "Area release? Right fine, that's cool and all. We had something similar every week for the past two months in our own org. And hey, I think my writing is better than what's put into this 'new' area. Hah."
Currently, area or room expansion in the game world is rare because (as the thread about new areas explains) the process is difficult, complicated, and takes a great deal of effort and commitment from a very small team with limited resources. By the very nature of this rarity, area releases are given a sense of urgent excitement. "It's FINALLY here! Oh my GOD!" While this quality is probably not intended (I'm sure the admin would rather put out areas faster) it IS something good for the actual experience of players. It colours the event that presages or accompanies these area releases with an additional (though false) sense of excitement and immediacy. By crowd-sourcing such releases via a coded system that allows players to do expansions, however, this sense of rain-after-a-drought that accompanies an admin area release will be obliterated. Even if the "doomsday" scenarios from my above paragraphs of blunting the magic of admin area release doesn't come to pass, at the very least, this certainly will.
The question is whether or not allowing players to feel a sense of involvement in the game by making a room building system is enough of an advantage that we can afford to sacrifice some of the magic of an admin area release. Somehow, I feel that it isn't.
No explorers flag, please.
Seren forest != sylvan forest.
Sylvan forest is the "pure" ethereal type (go to Faethorn and trueground, you'll see it is Sylvan).
Seren forest is just regular "forest".
So I would personally go with forest for Serenwilde, Wyrden forest for Glomdoring, volcanic urban for Gaudiguch, and so on; as you say, make it match the general type of the area. Sylvan should stay in Faethorn!
We can however default homesteads as forest for communes (or maybe trees?).
I'd very much like forest to be the default for communes though, urban just seems weird, and not wyrd.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I'd personally consider it forest with buildings, not urban with trees.
That's like saying the Gungans were awesome in Episode 1 forgetting that if you removed them from existence there wouldn't be a Jar Jar Binks!*
Interestingly there is a Wyrden Urban, for the Black Tower, but I (personally) see other constructs within Glomdoring as being made with, or possibly inside the hollow of, natural environments.
*That said I wouldn't have made it through college doing custom Jar Jar Binks voiced answer messages, I have no shame.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!