What makes someone a novice, both societally and mechanically?

Zouviqil

I've seen enough threads about "novices should do x" and "novices shouldn't be killed" and so on and so forth. However, most recently, the implied statement was that a level 77 character should be considered a novice.

I am pretty sure mechanically you're no longer a novice after completing the collegium quests, or graduate out of the college into your guild's GNT, or when you're GR 1 in your guild.

So then what makes a person a novice, societally?

Riluna

I tend to consider somebody no longer a "novice" the moment they become independent. I think we as a community generally don't expect anyone truly new here to be able to fully learn everything they need to know on their own, and those who still require that help are still a novice.. If a brand new demigod is still asking basic questions like what cures he needs to hunt in some bashing ground, what mercy/perfection/kingdom enchantments do, he's still a novice, despite mechanically having reached end-game.

At some point, the questions change in subject matter from things you need to know about basic mechanics, and interactions become more of a purely social nature. To put it in other words, when they no longer need to ask you to show them where to hunt for gold, but instead ask you to hunt with them just to have the company, they're no longer a novice.

Everiine

Mechanically, one is no longer a novice once they hit Guild Rank 1, or if they reach the level where they are kicked out of Newton.

Societally, it used to be easy to tell based on level. Now that it takes a month or less to become a demigod, that makes it much, much harder (the level at which one is kicked out of Newton had to be raised because newbies were given so many experience boosts just for doing nothing that they were kicked out of Newton way too early). A better indicator might be Commune/City rank or Guild rank, as it takes longer to move up that way.

For me, I try to gauge if the person actually understands what they are doing. If they are harming loyal mobs, and they look/seem young, I'll try to talk to them. If they didn't really understand what they were doing, I consider them to still be in the "novice" category. If I get a response that indicates that they know full well what they are doing and what it means, I don't consider them novices anymore.

Xenthos

I generally don't use the term "novice" but instead "newbie" because I feel it is a much more appropriate classification; it's someone who doesn't really know what they are doing, but may very well no longer be considered mechanically a novice.  Newbies (to me) should be given a bit more leeway.  After all, we want them to stick around and become part of the community!

Eodh

I'm level 78 now!

I was very surprised how quickly I was able to jump up in levels after I was taught how to influence. I'm still trying to understand a lot of the things in the game, though, so I don't see myself as an experienced player despite my level.

Everiine

Riluna said:

If a brand new demigod is still asking basic questions like what cures he needs to hunt in some bashing ground, what mercy/perfection/kingdom enchantments do, he's still a novice, despite mechanically having reached end-game.

I laughed, but then realized that with how little time it takes to get there anymore, this may very well happen.

Karlach

There's people who lived their lives spinning the wheel and sitting on aethership collectors who think they're suddenly going to be superbashers, then die in the Grey Moors simply because they've not had to experience mechanics as basic as sentries.

Honestly, I think when you get to the stage where you can go out by yourself, and you're comfortable to venture off prime/into enemy territory, you're fair game. You never need to leave prime in order to hit demigod/farm essence/make gold/get esteem/generate power etc. Yes people can declare kill you on prime, I've had it happen to me, I've done it to others (and honestly unless circumstances came up I doubt I'd do it again) but such engagements are limited and regulated by game mechanics.

I've had discussions with people I've killed before, the usual "Why?" ones and more fun the "What do I need to do to avoid this happening again?" Which isn't them asking for terms of surrender, but more ways to avoid being killed, situational awareness, escape plans, ways to call for help, etc. Eventually you reach a state of mind where death really isn't that bad, ok sure your name gets lit up on deathsight that someone "WTFPWN'D" you, but they're generally forgotten about in the same amount of time it takes to read said deathsight.

With the exception of Titans and fresh Demigods (or those with barely any essence due to their own lack of generation) being afraid of dying as opposed to looking at it as a learning experience, even if the lesson is "maybe you shouldn't go back there right now." or "bring friends."

I could have chosen to avoid combat entirely, never done PK, never interacted with anyone and been one of those quiet bashers who runs around all day killing, looting and offering. I would have a lot less deaths than I do now, I'd also have significantly less of a clue.

Daraius

I definitely felt like a newb when I got jumped in the illithoid prison immediately after reaching demigod. Lesson learned!

Kubera

I'm level 53 and the character has had over 30 birthdays since he was made. I can easily complete collegium quests, city power quests and I can influence. Everything else  is a  mystery, though I'm learning. I may have been logged in for three whole days but I'm definitely a massive Newbie!

Edit: Stupid auto-correct on my Kindle made me call myself names.