This makes me uncomfortable.

Aramel

Earlier today, I was testing the new novice intro as a Gaudiguchian novice. I happened to encounter an incident where one character (player A) reported being sexually harassed by another player (Player , and was then slain, ousted and enemied from the city. When I asked what had happened, I was told to ignore said character, and that she was "insane". Several people at the nexus began making sardonic comments, I qq'd, and that was the end of that. 

Later, on the Facebook group, I encountered a log of this incident from the POV of the accused. This log and subsequent comments made me deeply uncomfortable. The first reaction of the city leadership to the accusation, apparently, was "it'll be taken care of" - said taken care of referring apparently to the enemying and subsequent deaths. Moreover, in this log and its following comments were statements such as: 

"If I crush her throat, can she still yell?"

"She's an obnoxious little twit."

"Lol'd so hard." 

"This person is literally just insane." 

"waiting for whoever is to come here with some forged logs ;D" 

Topped by "so did you actually mudsex her?"

Player B: "Sure did, if we're being honest. Like..a long time ago." 

I am aware that Player A did things that were beyond the pale. However, the knee-jerk hostility to any complaints of the sort makes me deeply uncomfortable. City leadership should have told Player A to issue and let the admin handle it. Enemying and ousting Player A and subsequently calling her insane are actions that remind me of real-life tactics used to silence women who bring harassment complaints against men (especially well-connected men) - the "bitches be cray" meme, if you will. Moreover, the in-game threats of violence as a silencing tool in this context, the vitriol of the comments in the Facebook group, and the default assumption that the accuser must be lying, are reminiscent of real life rape culture. 

The gaming world is notoriously misogynistic. Lusternia should not be adding to that. I am aware that people can claim roleplay - however, there are certain limits to what is acceptable and what is not. We already prohibit homophobic roleplay. There is no reason we should not also frown on actions that contribute to a hostile environment for women (or people not in in-groups in general). It can be argued that the nature of the game provides some defense in that a player's gender is not immediately known. However, we merely substitute male privilege for in-group privilege.

Had I been a true novice to Lusternia, I would have concluded from the in-game city leadership's casual dismissal of a complainer as "insane" (whether or not the harassment claim was justified) that the players of Lusternia contributed to a hostile environment, and refrained from continuing further into the game.

(I had considered posting this anonymously, in expectation that I would be called over-reacting or humorless, and that it might have an impact on friendships I form with players in the game. However, I feel like the simple fact that I hesitated and expected such problems is symptomatic of a dismissal so pervasive that I've already internalized it. I don't think this should be the case.)

Agnlaa

Well, I'm not in any way involved in the situation (I don't have an alt in Gaudi). I can't say what happened one way or the other. I don't even know who the accused is. I do know that someone, probably the accuser (with whom I've never spoken, on any of my characters) sent me a tell as soon as I logged in to tell me about what was going on. Later, I'd qq'd and switched over to an alt. Same person sent me the same tell. And, yet later still, on my other alt (I swear there's only three of me) I got to hear once again about what was happening.

I'm not in the FB group and I haven't seen the logs, nor do I care to. The first tell, I thought "Wow, ok. That was a weird thing to tell someone you've never met." The second tell made me think, "Alright, this person is persistent. Maybe they should issue instead of this." Third time, I thought, "Oh no. This person is, I'm now quite certain, periodically checking QW to see who hasn't heard about this yet. This may literally be the worst possible way to handle this." Imagine being a true newb and getting hit with that tell.

Karlach

""If I crush her throat, can she still yell?""

That's actually a mechanical thing, you can stop someone from being able to communicate by damaging their voicebox in game, that wasn't a threat it was more of "Hey if I use X ability, does Y happen?"

The fact that the person also threatened to forge logs is the reason people assume they're lying, not because of a culture where victims face 101 questions before they are believed. This has nothing to do with misogyny, if anything you're asking for people to cater to what is clearly harassment and slander on the basis of a perceived gender OOCly. That is privilege.

Not to mention player A was enemied and guard killed for attacking other citizens (it's even in the log) I mean if you're going to tell this story to jump towards a cause, at least tell it properly. Yes Lusternia has a good admin presence against all forms of discrimination, and no, the boundaries were not pushed in this instance.

Personally I still think that entire discussion was on the wrong forum, we have an unedited rants group. It should have been there from the start.

Shaddus

Though I generally agree with you, Aramel, (and didnt know you were in the Lusternia group), this isn't simply "kicking her out of the city and killing her to silence her."

This person, alt or no, had an issue with another player. Instead of taking care of it through the usual channels, she started yelling moderately sexual things, attacked Seraku (who I can assure you is one of the nicest people I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with in Lusternia, ever), and spammed not only Player B with tells, but a lot of other people. I myself received a tell from her.


IMO, this seemed to me to be a sort of buyer's remorse. I don't know the whole story, but she likely slept with him and then either regretted it, or thought it would lead to a further relationship. Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is simply all the information I have.

Shaddus

As an addendum, I'm totally against slut shaming in any way, shape, form, or fashion. There are people who come here strictly to get into physical relationships, and can't handle if it doesn't work out the way they expected. Even in a text game like Lusternia, we get attached to each other, form friendships, and even RL relationships. Some people can't handle the disconnect between irl and Lusternia, and some of -those- people are often emotionally immature. It happens.

Pectus

I just.. I'm sorry but no. You can't go blaming men every time something bad happens in Lusternia. Aymee did a dumb, got punished for it. She even said she would make up logs if she had to. 

No one in Gaudiguch raped anyone, thank you very much.

Persayis

I understand your concern, but before she was enemied and as I tried to talk to her, she continued to be belligerent. I asked her several times to please cease yelling while I looked into the situation (understand I just logged in) and she refused, instead telling me that I was a harborour of rapists and repeatedly told me to go kill myself. This person was not at all sane, nor reasonable, as though I entered the scene after she was kicked and attempted damage control - it was not to be had. She kept insisting that we were being OOC in our issues for an "IC" problem, so it wasn't that she was legitimately having an issue, more that she wanted to cause drama. 

 

Persayis

Your concern, Aramel, is valid. There ARE people who do look over issues like this and tend to be biased or just blow it off. I was the player of the aforementioned leadership who told people to go on their way and ignore this person because at that point in time it was obvious what the REAL issue was - and that it would not be so easily dealt with. It didn't take rocket science to figure it out. Persayis prides herself on striving to remain neutral and fair, especially in situations like this, so she wasn't just dismissing it. 

Svorai

I'd be glad to see this thread closed, for the record. Neither here nor on the Lusternian fb page are appropriate places for discussing this kind of thing. Take it to unedited if you need to.

Issues if issues are needed, snub if snub is needed, and a whole lot of this-is-none-of-my-business-nor-should-it-be-anyone-else's.

Kthx.

Xenthos

There is nothing "humorous" about the actions discussed here.  At the same time, I would like to think that Lusternia is, by its very nature, less of a misogynistic culture than much of the rest of the gaming world.  The stereotypical gamer isn't really drawn to this sort of environment.

I have to further note that the reason she was kicked and killed was not because of her claims (I too read the logs), but instead because she was spamming everyone and everything (and actually attacking Seraku).

The whole situation is decidedly uncomfortable, yes.  For multiple reasons.  Trying to talk about it is tough.

In the end, I have to agree with Svorai.  I have faith in the Administration's desire to see such things handled cleanly.  If someone is doing something bad, the best way to get it sorted out is to go to them for help.  They have a strong desire to assist you; they want you to keep playing.  Yelling repeatedly and sending tells to the entire playerbase... that doesn't really accomplish anything good at all.

Raezon

I am responding only to the original post.

This situation (specifically the claim you are referring to) is not appropriate for the game at all. We don't regularly look into what people do privately, of course, but as soon as it become a point of contention between players or becomes public in the game, it is no longer appropriate and should not be dealt with in the game at all.

The proper option for recourse or resolution is to snub the person if you feel harassed or to issue and let us resolve it. It is not an option for public RP of any kind in the game, and should never be addressed by org leadership or other players. 

Some of the references in this thread are not appropriate for the forums, either, given the range of ages of our player base, so I'm closing the thread. If you have any complaints with what occurred in the game, please feel free to issue or email support@lusternia.com for resolution.