What should the administration do?

Ciaran

I am curious what the current feelings of the population (the portion that uses the forums) are.

Ciaran

To clarify: Assuming that the administration puts in the work to find a balanced implementation of an affliction revamp.

Ssaliss

I'd prefer combat to be simplified instead of being made more complex, as I stated in the other thread. Simple enough.

Estarra

Look guys, things are not decided by popular consensus. I am not going to vote in this poll nor will I look at the results.

Ciaran

Interesting.

Xenthos

While I voted, I must point out that only a small portion of the playerbase even comes to the forums, so this is not representative of the playerbase as a whole. So even aside from the popular consensus thing, I doubt they'd look at the results.

You're also missing an important third option: "A moderated approach to adjusting afflictions as needed," because if it was there I would have voted for it instead. I don't have anything against adjusting afflictions, just against making curing and systems more complex.

Ciaran

Yes, I know not all players use the forums, I tried to mention that in the heading.

I totally agree with tweaking the effects of some weak afflictions.  I consider that to be 'not an affliction revamp'.  I tried to keep the scope of the poll very narrow, for better or for worse.

Draylor

While not all players use the forums, I'd hazard a guess and state that -most- that are involved in combat do.

Ssaliss

I'd like to think that not only those involved in combat has a say though... Yes, it's combat related, but if only the top tier of combatants get a say, then odds are the people just getting started in combat will get a much harder time.

Ciaran

If you know people who don't look at the forums you may want to direct them to the thread Estarra made, because even if they don't check in here, the proposed revamp will impact them just as much as any of us.

Shaddus

I'm sort of troubled by this, as there is no middle ground. I think a partial revamp would be acceptable, especially with the mental afflictions. I don't think the rest of the revamp is a good idea at this time, although I do appreciate the administration's trying to work to give us more things and keep us interested in an integral part of Lusternia.

Shuyin

TBH, I don't think this thread is all that constructive considering we already have the other one that the admin actively read and participate in.

In fact, I think it's a pretty bad move that will only serve to encourage bad feelings in the admin and make them even less likely to listen.

Shaddus

Estarra said:

Look guys, things are not decided by popular consensus. I am not going to vote in this poll nor will I look at the results.

I understand this, but I think you'll agree that getting a general idea on what forum-goers vote for is a good idea. Furthermore, if you didn't want our ideas or a consensus of any kind, you wouldn't have posted about it in the first place

Ciaran

Shuyin said:

TBH, I don't think this thread is all that constructive considering we already have the other one that the admin actively read and participate in.

In fact, I think it's a pretty bad move that will only serve to encourage bad feelings in the admin and make them even less likely to listen.

You may be right, but since Estarra began deleting posts that said ' You shouldn't do this ' I felt we needed a thread where we would be allowed to voice our thoughts.

It wasn't my choice to have Estarra ignore this thread though. I find it very disappointing.  The only people on these forums that don't play the game are the admin, and as far as I can tell, they aren't concerned with our opinions as players.

Xenthos

Ciaran said:

Shuyin said:

TBH, I don't think this thread is all that constructive considering we already have the other one that the admin actively read and participate in.

In fact, I think it's a pretty bad move that will only serve to encourage bad feelings in the admin and make them even less likely to listen.

You may be right, but since Estarra began deleting posts that said ' You shouldn't do this ' I felt we needed a thread where we would be allowed to voice our thoughts.

It wasn't my choice to have Estarra ignore this thread though. I find it very disappointing.  The only people on these forums that don't play the game are the admin, and as far as I can tell, they aren't concerned with our opinions as players.

Now that's pretty harsh (and I have to say, wrong).

They do care, greatly.

Them disagreeing does not preclude their caring; if they think that something "should be done for the good of the game," they're willing to accept the grumbles but that doesn't mean they don't think long and hard about doing it.

Ciaran

That's pretty reasonable

Malayn

Once in awhile they are suffering from "Shiny new idea" and that idea shall happen regardless of any discussion.  Especially if it is a project they enjoy the sound of!

That aside she did open a topic to garner information, and people disliked it. She pointed out to assume that in one form or another this idea was going to happen to some extent. After that point saying "no" is not helpful, they already said it is happening. Our goal should be to actively consider their ideas and maybe add some of our own. Find afflictions that are removable, consider balanced buffs to combination affs, upgrade the base afflicitions in some cases, and I like the idea of removing the second cure from some affs.  I do NOT like the idea of combining balances since many guilds can already stack two balances separately, combining any of them would only result in overkill.

I will be trying to be more thorough and look at ALL the afflictions, and will post a small book for people to consider later. If someone wants to see it I am more motivated, otherwise its a crap ton of work.

Llandros

Seriously?

Have any of you people played this game before? Getting Estarra to dig in her, albeit fabulous, heels and completely dismiss your arguments is going to get you nowhere.

Working with her, making sure she appreciates how complex this is, toning things down as far as possible, letting us help make sure things are balanced, keeping things focused on the core issues, and encourage that she move slowly - that is how you get you voice heard.

Anything else is just wasted keystrokes.

Xeria

I like the premise of the idea but not the proposed execution, judging from the comments that everyone has written. 

Caerulo

Malarious said:

That aside she did open a topic to garner information, and people disliked it. She pointed out to assume that in one form or another this idea was going to happen to some extent. After that point saying "no" is not helpful, they already said it is happening.  

Estarra actually said the exact opposite of that:

Estarra said:

And rather than keep editing my previous post, let me just rephrase: I think what people may not really understand is when I say "assume this is going to happen, how would you balance it" is taken as "this is really going to happen so suck it up". What I am really looking for is to exhaust all possible avenues on how to make it work if some version goes in. So while I understand people don't like the idea for what could be valid reasons, I don't really care what those reasons are. What I am more interested in is how to make it work if we decide to go this route. In other words, don't tell me that you don't like the idea or why it can't work, rather tell me how it could work, even if it means looking at other skills. Tell me what other skills and what would need to be done to make it work. If that's too much work for you, that's fine, but don't accuse us of not trying to get feedback!

I have mixed reactions to the affliction revamp, but I'm more inclined towards Estarra's point of view with this thread. Estarra has already mentioned that the purpose of her looking for feedback in the other thread is to look for possible improvements to the afflictions combo idea. She is not interested in what is the 'popular' forum vote for the idea and has explicitly mentioned it multiple times in the other thread. Hence, I feel that this thread serves no purpose other than to further aggravate her.

Malayn

Estarra said:

For the sake of argument, assuming we are going to do some form of this, how would you design a synergistic redesign of worms-dysentery-vomiting?

At this point she has pointed out they are doing some version. After that "no" was not helpful.

Ssaliss

No she didn't. She just said "If we're doing this, how would you want it done?" And "No" isn't really a good answer to that question.

Draylor

Here's a good one, I think. This is what the game admin should do:

Listen to the playerbase! Stop creating 'features' that nobody wants or needs and spend this time fixing things that have been an issue for -years-

There's no end of work that could be undertaken as the result of threads on these forums by experienced players who have not only pointed out issues, but even given extremely valid and cohesive solutions. Pretty much every single one has either been ignored or point blank shot down in favour of this dumb 'vision'.

It's clearly not working. Active player numbers have seen a gradual decline over this last year or so.

There is a very real risk of alienating players to an even greater extent here. If I might suggest issues like this be addressed initially?

Caerulo

That is such an entitled point of view. You are taking the administration's willingness to hear feedback for granted. Ultimately, any decision about the game is made by Estarra and not us.

You are at a very real risk of alienating the administration here, and if I might suggest, you should provide feedback without insulting them.

Draylor

Am entirely confident that I am not the only person who feels this way and would even go out on a limb and state that there are many, many people who do.

This gradual decline of active players has tangible reasoning behind it. We've all seen it; we've all been frustrated by it.

Ssaliss

Yeah. Calling features "retarded" is a pretty quick way to get ignored. Better to discuss them on a mature level and argue against the mechanics themselves and why they're bad.

Kialkarkea

I voted yes. Just because I haven't slept in nearly a day and wanted to push a button.

I don't really care either way.

Saran

I'd rather they spend the time exploring rp and expanding its reach within skills. But I also know that the only response to this will be to speak with envoys but I can still hope.

Malayn

Treat it as something likely to happen, and make that work.  I posted my version and I think it improves aff that need it, lets us do the combo effects without getting scary, and still improve combat flow as well.

I still have my mechanics thing to write up, but I side tracked that when the revamp thing came up.

Try to be optimistic. I am not a fan of the revamp but I think we CAN make good changes without going crazy.  Consider that most effects will actually be delayed, so many of the effects might not show up.

Give it a shot!

Ssaliss

My problem with it is that I don't see it as needed at all. Yes, the afflictions are underpowered, so what? It's worked so far, no need to change it as far as I can see.