Newbies Out of Portals

Estarra

This maybe is a question more for guides but maybe others can give me a general answer.

When a true newbie gets out of the intro, is it strikingly obvious that they should go to Newton to bash and get started? Or do we ever find newbies wandering around in cities and punching guards to see what happens?

I'm wondering if we should have more safeguards and automations that puts a newbie directly in Newton. Thoughts?

Zyphora

When I was a true blue novice in Lusternia, I stepped out of the Portal of Fate and immediately spent forever trying to find out where I was and why I was on an endlessly spiraling path leading seemingly to nowhere. I didn't even know how to get to the city. I never attacked guards, but I didn't know to go to Newton until I joined again much later with a friend and they taught me how to use PORTALS. I quit after my first attempt because I was so lost, and if it hadn't been for my friend, I probably wouldn't have tried to come back.

Bryna

I don't think a true newbie is any less or any more able to find Newton than an alt. It seems to me that most true newbies are the ones that wander Avechna and can't find their way until you explain Portals to them. You might change the intro to put them directly into the Portals area, or give them a few hints that they should use PORTALS once they get out of the Portal of Fate.

Estarra

Maybe if they're not in newton and are below level 20, a message: The Newton Quest calls you! Type NEWTON to begin.

Ayisdra

Back when I was a newbie it really wasn't that obvious. I believe the only reason I knew was my friend who also played at the time told me to go there.

Not related to newton directly, but would there be a way for newbies to be told what cghelp file to read, by the system that is. I know I was never told what file to read and thus my beginner lessons didn't go into the skills that were suggested for a more well rounded start. While players are normally good at telling newbies what to read, there is always some that slip through and are never told (and may to be shy/proud to ask for help - I know I was.)

Estarra

Ayisdra said:

Back when I was a newbie it really wasn't that obvious. I believe the only reason I knew was my friend who also played at the time told me to go there.

Not related to newton directly, but would there be a way for newbies to be told what cghelp file to read, by the system that is. I know I was never told what file to read and thus my beginner lessons didn't go into the skills that were suggested for a more well rounded start. While players are normally good at telling newbies what to read, there is always some that slip through and are never told (and may to be shy/proud to ask for help - I know I was.)

I think there probably are a lot of info coming at you to read this help file or that help file, but I know from experience new players don't read help files. They just want to jump in and start bashing!

Svorai

Some want to jump in and start bashing. Some of us were like woooooo pretty guild skills, I want to be a druid! I know as a newbie I was far more interested in the collegium quests, learning new skills and finding my way around my org than bashing in Newton. Priority was on learning how to do simple things, as I was a newbie newbie.

Anyway, sure. More HINTS are great. Gives newbies ideas on what to do if they're out of things to do. But I don't think the focus should be to herd newbies into Newton as a priority -- engaging with players is more important, imo. 

I joined with a friend and was told to use PORTALS to get to my org, but otherwise I would have been lost, wandering Avechna's Peak alone and afraid. It's a big scary world.

I have so many things to say on this topic, but I'm trying to reign in the flood. Trying. So. Hard. :-S

Rivius

Yeah, what was suggested before with hints sounds fine. As soon as they exit the portal, just give them a hint that says to use portals and when they get to the portals for the first time, give a hint about the Newton Caverns. Or perhaps have it mentioned by some mob somewhere along to make it a little more rich.

Ssaliss

Perhaps also a new command? WHATNOW would give them an idea of what they can do. If they have lessons, they might be told they can learn their skills. If they have learned any skills, they can be told to go bashing or influencing. If they have collegium quests left to do, they can be told about that. I'm sure others can think of more ideas.

Saran

(going to address this as if there are no players providing guidance)

If I remember correctly, the biggest thing the people I've tried to get to play have had issues with are:

* Being dumped with no direction after the portal

* Reading help files

Both are covered when there is a player around who can guide you but if there isn't then you end up in the moment of "Well... what do I do now?"

Just going to newton first is probably a really bad thing for player retention. From memory punching and kicking was boring and frustrating, but beyond that you've jumped out of the intro and now you're walking around like some mundane mortal without an ounce of magical power or fighting ability. Learning to use those most basic abilities moves you into your archetype, you learned how to attack with punches and kicks but now you can make peoples heads explode with music.

What I'd actually suggest is something a bit closer to what we see in mmorpgs, more direct quest based handholdy introductions beyond the intro. Give them a quest to say... learn their bashing attack, then go off and hunt around newton for a bit, then bring them back to learn say curing, then back, then maybe hint towards to the honours quest but not require it, then when they're getting ready to leave newton teach them firstaid.

Sure, they should be learning these things with a player, and they can learn them sooner. But if they haven't by a certain time, maybe a little quest could occur just for them to teach them?

Kagato

While this would definitely take a bit of coding,  I think something should be set up within the newton caves, a step along the 'path' that directs the novice to a new denizen that will teach anyone, regardless of affliation, basic skills (depending on which organisation they are in it would trigger a different tip - for example for a celestine it might say "Spending 10 lessons in Cosmic will teach you CosmicFire, a simple, yet useful attack spell" - I know I found that a heck of a lot more useful than punching and kicking something to death)

While it wouldn't give them a 'cookie-cutter' lesson build as such - you don't want to spoon-feed them everything, they should potentially be told what basic skills may be useful (clotting, curing, squinting and so on)

Vuris

Back in my first Lusternia incarnation, a true newbie if you will. I sat there reading things, trying to wrap my head around everything that was happening. I eventually got help from a commune-mate after I brought up the courage to venture out to send a tell. They taught me the basic ways of the druid, and then I was taught how portals. After that the corpses of Gnomes and Fink being put in a circle to look like they where in a poker game quickly began before their corpses where sold to their respective buyers (I still firmly believe the gnomes are cannibles). But yea, I had no idea at first and that played alot into my disorientation, I didn't wonder the peaks real fast though I did after I was ousted from Newtons.

Now when I interact with Novices I take the time to fetch them from the portal of fates, explain things to them in a semi-conciese manner, and ask them what they wish to do. Should they want to go to Newtons tell the about portals, then point them in the direction to go. Otherwise I spirit them away to teach them basic skills.

Moi

When I was a newbie, I thought the Path of Solitude was some sort of mystical dimension still behind the Portal of Fate, not part of the actual game. It was not immediately obvious that I was on a mountain or that there was anywhere I could go that wasn't more Path of Whatever.

Kialkarkea

With my first-first character, I ended up wandering around on Avechna's peak for a while distractedly before finally getting scooped up by Raikogen and showed the ropes. 

This was years ago though, back before collegiums and whatnot, so I can't really offer much in the way of viewpoint on modern newbies.

Dys

The pack of bonded animals and undead that's always round the Portal of Fate is distracting. When I started I thought I had to do something with them. I guess they're there from when people pray for salvation?

Xenthos

@Dys : People put them there so that they can't be killed (non-PK room).

It is pretty annoying, and they just keep building up.

Bryna

Something that might help is adding in a part for shops, since there is already one there in the intro. Make the novice buy a mending, which will not only give them shop experience, but enable them to do part of their collegium healing quest.

Riluna

I still get a lot of novices that have no idea what to do at all, let alone explore Newton. Not even aware of their pack vials/clothes

Siam

Riluna said:

I still get a lot of novices that have no idea what to do at all, let alone explore Newton. Not even aware of their pack vials/clothes

@Estarra

How about this:

[HINT] Every budding adventurer has to have his things with him! Don't forget to check your INVENTORY!

Thoughts?

Bryna

I believe novices do get a push towards checking their inventories, though this wouldn't hurt. 

Bryna

Maybe we can have a game-wide contest and submit some suggestions for hints novices might occasionally get during their time under circle 21?

Soraya

Perhaps also having some of these:

- Pointing to the ACHIEVEMENTS as many of them are based on survival and learning how to do certain things in the game.

- Have something prompting, like a hint, to HELP WHATNOW for those wee hours of the day when no one is awake.

- More explanation on using the Aetherplex

- Instead of the newbie starting in Avechna's Peak, why not start them at the Nexus of their city. Unless they choose not to join one..

One thing I don't understand is the point in graduating with honours. I'm glad there is opportunity to move from novicehood in guilds quicker and so on, but I don't understand why how long one novice takes with the college stuff should be appreciated more than someone who takes their time or can't be around for honours. Explain?

Kiradawea

You can always get the honours later on. I do recall though that when I graduated, I felt very awesome because there was (honours) behind it, and I noticed that others didn't have that. Made me feel like I had done something great.

Lavinya

You can still get your honours after you graduate! It just means you did ALL the collegium quests (which are extremely useful for gold/experience/learning) but if you're in a hurry to get on with it, you don't have to.

Fania

As a not so much newbie when I started I still ended up missing out on most of Newton. I had already done the newbie thing in Achaea, so that did play a part. 

A lot of it boils down to being forced to read a bunch of scrolls instead of just being lead to these places. I said it before in another thread and I'll say it again: Get involved with the person first and then give them scrolls to read. I don't understand giving someone a bunch of scrolls to read when you could be out having adventures. If you are training someone give them all the info they need to know, give them scrolls to read after and send them to newton or to do their college quests. I think some kind of directional would be nice... maybe a one time portal to newton when you type it the first time. 

The only way new people are going to get involved is if they have someone who helps them out, and shows interest in this new person. A lot of the weight is, and probably will always be, on the player base. Undersecretaries and above should be greeting everyone who comes out of the portal, and I don't mean a blanket message listing all the scrolls the person should read, but an actual introduction of who you are and then show the person why they should care about this game. I've seen a lot of people just ignore new people, so it just ends up with them feeling neglected. 

One idea that might help is allowing CGT to be heard on all planes (possibly even on aetherships/bubbles) regardless of planar skill (with punishments for abuse) this way people have a lower chance of being ignored. 

I know a lot of this stuff is maybe a bit different than the question you asked, but it all relates to the same thing... keeping new players interested in Lusternia.

Moi

I don't know if it's just me, but in my experience there's definitely a subset of newbies that will get mad at you for leading them around to places and trying to show them what to do directly.

Turnus

Finally posting on these new and scary forums (I missed the old ones!)

One thing I've noticed, is that people tend to try and point newbies to the collegium quests first rather than Newton.While those quests are important to do eventually, I think the freedom of exploring Newton is more likely to hook newbies and is in general the better place to start.

They ought to have fun with the general mechanics running around exploring Newton before going through the more guided "advanced" topics from the collegium. Or at least pointed that way.

Eritheyl

Turnus said:

One thing I've noticed, is that people tend to try and point newbies to the collegium quests first rather than Newton.While those quests are important to do eventually, I think the freedom of exploring Newton is more likely to hook newbies and is in general the better place to start.

This is really the truth. When writing the Symphonium CGHELP, I rolled a quick throw-away alt to see just how much stuff I could find that would have utterly baffled me two years ago - when I was still brand new. The absolute first thing was the initial push to learn skills up and then BAM, start the collegium quests while being completely unprepared. Maybe it's more prevalent in some orgs than others, or all depends on the teacher you happen to get (if you get one at all), but I do agree with putting a bit more importance on exploring Newton.

Also, a little bit of information on the Newton honours quests (and honours quests in general, if neither of these things exist) wouldn't be a bad thing to nudge newbies in the direction of. I know I had absolutely no idea they existed until it was far too late for me to start one with Eri, the farthest I managed to get that time around was figuring out how to make a crystal ball :b