Ab tweaks? Also, does Wildewood have the first skill being Wildewood too?
Yes, the first skill in the set is called Wyldewood, and it's essentially the thing that converts you into a tree... I have the wall of text that smacks you when that happens, too... if you're interested.
Still need said short and long ABs for Wildewood though!
What we seem to be missing is an ability to cut trees, be it for mulching purposes or to help with the growth of a mystic tree. Then again... the mental image of a tree swinging an axe at another tree is a bit amusing too, I guess. I'd personally like the ability to carve totems and be able to tell how many days are left until a totem reverts.
Reports 1057, 1091, most of the discussion around Wildewood.
I'm still not sure why you didn't get a version of autumnal surge though (mulch resulting in sap rather than wood)
I'm rather uncertain why there wasn't some kind of ability included in the skillsets to start off. Why put the work in envoy hands to make such a skill happen rather than have something already present and then let envoys know that they could work on altering it to better suit their needs? Me, I doubt my woodness will last much longer. Still testing, still poking and fixing, and still playing with the abilities to possibly give Vadi more ideas on what to look into as an envoy. Once that's done, it's likely I'll be saying bye to the skillset, even though noose is quite amusing.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Ab tweaks? Also, does Wildewood have the first skill being Wildewood too?
Yes, the first skill in the set is called Wyldewood, and it's essentially the thing that converts you into a tree... I have the wall of text that smacks you when that happens, too... if you're interested.
Still need said short and long ABs for Wildewood though!
Gah! You had me confused for a moment there... I thought you were talking about Wyrdenwood. I really don't know what the Wildewood skillset looks like.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I am so happy this has been released! Bit worried about the timing thing, but all's well that ends well!
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Wildewood does not have a long ab desc -- it wasn't really meant for Wyrdenwood to I don't think, but it was made so it was filled in (as opposed to going through the effort of deleting it).
What we seem to be missing is an ability to cut trees, be it for mulching purposes or to help with the growth of a mystic tree. Then again... the mental image of a tree swinging an axe at another tree is a bit amusing too, I guess. I'd personally like the ability to carve totems and be able to tell how many days are left until a totem reverts.
WyrdenBlaze Destroy nuisance trees with your Wyrden fires. (located between Pepper and Fibrous)
WYRDENWOOD - WYRDENBLAZE
Syntax: WYRDENWOOD BLAZE <tree>
By carefully spreading the Wyrden fires from your tree hollow, you can bring about the death of a tree for the greater good of the Merciless Forest. The tree's rich sap will be left behind, while all other nutriens and detritus will be greedily absorbed by the earth.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Right, so it's been checked, magic source cutting and blunt damage types do not bypass armor.
So, having all of your attacks include half physical types across the board means you do have to interact with armor all the time, in addition to tangling with the RoA. Of the caster classes, only the -wood skills have this feature, and the damage codes on the attacks are the same as the -chemancers who do not have physical typing.
Right, so it's been checked, magic source cutting and blunt damage types do not bypass armor.
So, having all of your attacks include half physical types across the board means you do have to interact with armor all the time, in addition to tangling with the RoA. Of the caster classes, only the -wood skills have this feature, and the damage codes on the attacks are the same as the -chemancers who do not have physical typing.
There's also something else to consider... while the druidry sapling has uses other than protecting a meld (when we go do the whole mulching thing and come back with a ton of wood), it is most often used to protect a meld. With that in mind, -chemancers do still have access to phantasms, so they can illusory terrain for friendly melders, whereas -wood skillsets don't have that ability to assist in a meld fight situation. Overall, not exactly ideal.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Hmm, I could have sworn we found that they bypassed it when we were crying about ironchord (
But since I'm never wrong, you simply failed to realize that my words meant the exact opposite of what they seemed to indicate.
How very dare you!
%-(
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I really don't understand why Aquachems get divinus, which is quite literally the best damage type in the game, and the woods get physical...which is the worst because it has to deal with dmp (and physical dmp is typically the highest) AND armour reduction.
That's really such a giant disparity that it bothers me it actually made it into implementation. The difference between divinus and physical is huge.
I really don't understand why Aquachems get divinus, which is quite literally the best damage type in the game, and the woods get physical...which is the worst because it has to deal with dmp (and physical dmp is typically the highest) AND armour reduction.
That's really such a giant disparity that it bothers me it actually made it into implementation. The difference between divinus and physical is huge.
Divinus for the single target attack. That comes at the cost of having no damage buff from the skillset for the area attacks. Also, divinus is no better than excoro damage for pvp, and both are worse against most people than psychic damage (the difference being the 10 dmp from the generally available nimbus enchantment). Poison can get pretty close, too, against the majority of the orgs. Physical damage mostly sucks, but that's got little to do with divinus damage. It's because physical damage from magical sources does NOT bypass armour (as has been claimed here). Just tested with a pure blunt Aqua staff attack: 544 damage with armour, 1043 without. And that's a cutting specced plate, so not even 100 blunt armour. On the other hand, it's not really true that physical dmp is usually the highest.
*Divinus on single target, in exchange for not having a buff from the skillset for the physical half of the group attacks. (Fixed it)
The issue with physical damage is that most guilds (3/5ths or so) get physical dmp on top of the freely available resilience dmp, and everyone has access to high levels of armor, that stacks with their dmp reduction. A 15% or smaller boost in damage to fifty percent of an attack isn't a perk when you're having to test against armor it's required to break even.
For a long time, Druids were the only casters stuck in pure physical damage types for a long time, and only received reprieve in the lightningbugs/wasps skills - lesser in scope than tuning for mages, who needed the damage typing help less. These new skillsets return to the old typing dichotomy of mages with varied typing, druids with poor physical typing.
If I am facing an enemy strongly resistant to blunt, I have only a single full-powered option that avoids blunt damage - hartpine. Otherwise, I must resort to novice bashing attacks. Of all the woodchemancy skills out, the only place that doesn't hold true, at least in part, is with the aquachemancers and their 100% divinus attack, for which their divinus damage bonus fully applies. And you cannot tell me that magical typed damage approaches the strength of divinus damage.
EDIT: Basically, the very few ways the druid variant patterns of these skills differ is for the worse, and the places the skillsets really should diverge (totemcarving, mulching, so on), they don't, or do so only poorly.
No idea what you fixed, Aquachemantics users don't get a buff to their area damage abilities from their skillset at all. In contrast to the other -woods and -chems so far. And as I said, if you complain about a divinus damage bashing attack, you can complain about lots of other guilds/damage types, too, as far as pvp goes.
EDIT: I see now, you're talking about the blunt damage buff for Wildewood. Well, Wyrdenwood get it for poison and Aerochems for lightning, so Wildewood got the worst deal there, for sure. As for physical vs non-physical, I could imagine that the asphyxiation part in the chems is supposed to fill the same role of a more easily mitigated damage type, via Hold Breath.
Eh, the commonly available damage type dmps come mostly from resilience and the high/lowmagic skillsets. There are a few damage types that do not have protection from these commonly available skillsets, though: divinus/excoro, psychic and asphyx (asphyx has a bit of a dmp buff from both breathing and lowmagic, though). Stuff like fire, cold, electric have always had things like proofings and fire/frost/galvanism potions to provide more dmp above those above listed. Even poison dmp is available from resilience, though the lack of proofings or additional commonly availible for poison make it a possible contender for non glom orgs as a decent damage type choice. Divinus/excoro are the only ones who have a single commonly available dmp, nimbus, and absolutely nothing else. Even psychic has some dmp from psionic users, but not everyone is a psionic, and that ranks them alongside poison as circumstantially good choices.
Comparing between non physical damage, divinus/excoro ranks as amongst the "best", with psychic/poison being the next best, maybe.
Physical has commonly available dmp from resilience as well as armour. Which can arguably have an even higher reduction effect than the dmp available for fire type, which is generally speaking one with amongst the highest dmp commonly available. The only good thing about physical is that armour varies according to the user's guild, those weakest being non trans-tailor casters. Even then, 50/50 robes are the norm.
Comparing physical against non physicals generally, physicals are the weaker damage type. Comparing physicals to the best non-physicals (divinus/excoro) leaves no room for argument for which is the better choice.
The point was that they don't get a buff to their area damage abilities... but strictly speaking, neither do two of the four specs. They/We get a dmp bonus that only helps to mitigate the otherwise terrible half of the damage type.
Comparing the bashing attacks of one woodchemantics class to the bashing attacks of all the others (So, not comparing it to every possible skill in the game, but to its clear mirror twins, occupying the same slot in the skillset, using the same mechanics) is valid. When you make that comparison, you find some interesting things.
Basically, I object to minimizing the disparity here. Having a 100% divinus attack and 20 bonus divinus dmp is not equivalent to everything having at least 50% physical damage type and having 20 bonus dmp to (half of) it all. There is a big difference, and it's not equitable. Even outside of the divinus attack (which breaks the mold so far), -wood skillsets revolving around physical damage (because these skillsets are unfortunatly based entirely around damage, which I still say is a bad idea) leaves them poorer than skillsets that are based around non-physical damage, unless you pump up the base damage to compensate for needing to deal with both dmp AND armor values.
EDIT: And yes, I'm pretty angry about this. As it does to Celina, it still bothers me that some of this stuff made it all the way through testing. While these skillsets evidence good thematic writing (mostly), it's frustrating to have them work the way they do - and the frustration mounts as more and more of the same comes out without changing.
Please have a look at the damage types of the area damage abilities of Aquachem. All but one contain blunt damage, and all contain asphyxiation damage. If that isn't easy to mitigate, I don't know. The rest of the damage is cold or fire, which aren't exactly the best damage types, either.
Also, Wyrdenwood gets a damage buff to poison, not physical damage.
The bashing attack of Aquachems is obviously the best of them all so far, with regards to pvp damage, no doubt. Such disparities exist all throughout the game, though. I've never seen anyone complain about Aquamancers getting cold/blunt/asphyx damage to choose from while Geomancers get yummy poison damage as an option.
Lerad, resilience is a whopping 6 dmp to poison damage. And that's all people commonly get, it's even less than nimbus' 10 dmp to divinus/excoro. 'Not everyone is a psionic' is quite the understatement.
Uh huh, and that's why I said poison/psychic is a contender for divinus/excoro's position. Glomdoring's the only org with extra poison dmp commonly available via nightwraith garb, and while psionics is available to at least one archetype per org, at most two: nowhere near commonly available.
Comparing physicals to divinus/excoro, though, it's quite clear which is the more advantageous choice. I don't think Celina/Enyalida's complaint is unjustified, is why I posted. The disparity certainly exists, and it's not something that should be brushed aside. I may or may not agree with their assertion that the -chems are better than the -woods - I haven't even sparred a wyrdenwood yet, much less assert anything on that topic - that's still up for debate. But aquachem's access to divinus is definitely an advantage over the woods' physicals.
WyrdenBlaze Destroy nuisance trees with your Wyrden fires. (located between Pepper and Fibrous)
WYRDENWOOD - WYRDENBLAZE
Syntax: WYRDENWOOD BLAZE <tree>
By carefully spreading the Wyrden fires from your tree hollow, you can bring about the death of a tree for the greater good of the Merciless Forest. The tree's rich sap will be left behind, while all other nutriens and detritus will be greedily absorbed by the earth.
YayABs. Thanks!
I am assuming Wildewood is exactly like Wyrdenwood's AB except..well..Wilde.
Also, Deadened and Pepper need switching in the AB order since the former needs the latter to be doable.
WyrdenBlaze Destroy nuisance trees with your Wyrden fires. (located between Pepper and Fibrous)
WYRDENWOOD - WYRDENBLAZE
Syntax: WYRDENWOOD BLAZE <tree>
By carefully spreading the Wyrden fires from your tree hollow, you can bring about the death of a tree for the greater good of the Merciless Forest. The tree's rich sap will be left behind, while all other nutriens and detritus will be greedily absorbed by the earth.
YayABs. Thanks!
I am assuming Wildewood is exactly like Wyrdenwood's AB except..well..Wilde.
Also, Deadened and Pepper need switching in the AB order since the former needs the latter to be doable.
There wasn't an ab last I checked, unless one has been added since...
Also, kinda want to see the lines for blaze.
EDIT: Oh, and the whole damage types thing seems like it should be off in a different thread and this one saved purely for wyrdenwood specific stuff. I want to comment but it'd really be all exclusively wildewood perspective stuff.
1
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited April 2013
I would love to know where a similar physical vs divinus disparity in the same class exists. I know when it was staff vs physical cudgel, cudgel was complained about often. And now no one uses it.
Edit: I can think of cacophony vs cantor. That's about it.
So does the one instance justify huge imbalances simply because it already exists a grand total of once somewhere else? No, I don't believe "disparity exists," is a rational argument to maintain imbalances.
Have the trigger lines been shared anywhere? If not, please and thank you!
Vadi has the lot of them. I'll probably compile a full list later tonight as some of the things I gave Vadi have changed as well (due to typos and so on)
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Comments
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I am so happy this has been released! Bit worried about the timing thing, but all's well that ends well!
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
WYRDENWOOD - WYRDENBLAZE
Syntax: WYRDENWOOD BLAZE <tree>
By carefully spreading the Wyrden fires from your tree hollow, you can bring about the death of a tree for the greater good of the Merciless Forest. The tree's rich sap will be left behind, while all other nutriens and detritus will be greedily absorbed by the earth.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
So, having all of your attacks include half physical types across the board means you do have to interact with armor all the time, in addition to tangling with the RoA. Of the caster classes, only the -wood skills have this feature, and the damage codes on the attacks are the same as the -chemancers who do not have physical typing.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I really don't understand why Aquachems get divinus, which is quite literally the best damage type in the game, and the woods get physical...which is the worst because it has to deal with dmp (and physical dmp is typically the highest) AND armour reduction.
That's really such a giant disparity that it bothers me it actually made it into implementation. The difference between divinus and physical is huge.
Divinus for the single target attack. That comes at the cost of having no damage buff from the skillset for the area attacks. Also, divinus is no better than excoro damage for pvp, and both are worse against most people than psychic damage (the difference being the 10 dmp from the generally available nimbus enchantment). Poison can get pretty close, too, against the majority of the orgs. Physical damage mostly sucks, but that's got little to do with divinus damage. It's because physical damage from magical sources does NOT bypass armour (as has been claimed here). Just tested with a pure blunt Aqua staff attack: 544 damage with armour, 1043 without. And that's a cutting specced plate, so not even 100 blunt armour. On the other hand, it's not really true that physical dmp is usually the highest.
If I am facing an enemy strongly resistant to blunt, I have only a single full-powered option that avoids blunt damage - hartpine. Otherwise, I must resort to novice bashing attacks. Of all the woodchemancy skills out, the only place that doesn't hold true, at least in part, is with the aquachemancers and their 100% divinus attack, for which their divinus damage bonus fully applies. And you cannot tell me that magical typed damage approaches the strength of divinus damage.
EDIT: Basically, the very few ways the druid variant patterns of these skills differ is for the worse, and the places the skillsets really should diverge (totemcarving, mulching, so on), they don't, or do so only poorly.
EDIT: I see now, you're talking about the blunt damage buff for Wildewood. Well, Wyrdenwood get it for poison and Aerochems for lightning, so Wildewood got the worst deal there, for sure. As for physical vs non-physical, I could imagine that the asphyxiation part in the chems is supposed to fill the same role of a more easily mitigated damage type, via Hold Breath.
Comparing between non physical damage, divinus/excoro ranks as amongst the "best", with psychic/poison being the next best, maybe.
Physical has commonly available dmp from resilience as well as armour. Which can arguably have an even higher reduction effect than the dmp available for fire type, which is generally speaking one with amongst the highest dmp commonly available. The only good thing about physical is that armour varies according to the user's guild, those weakest being non trans-tailor casters. Even then, 50/50 robes are the norm.
Comparing physical against non physicals generally, physicals are the weaker damage type. Comparing physicals to the best non-physicals (divinus/excoro) leaves no room for argument for which is the better choice.
Comparing the bashing attacks of one woodchemantics class to the bashing attacks of all the others (So, not comparing it to every possible skill in the game, but to its clear mirror twins, occupying the same slot in the skillset, using the same mechanics) is valid. When you make that comparison, you find some interesting things.
EDIT: And yes, I'm pretty angry about this. As it does to Celina, it still bothers me that some of this stuff made it all the way through testing. While these skillsets evidence good thematic writing (mostly), it's frustrating to have them work the way they do - and the frustration mounts as more and more of the same comes out without changing.
Also, Wyrdenwood gets a damage buff to poison, not physical damage.
The bashing attack of Aquachems is obviously the best of them all so far, with regards to pvp damage, no doubt. Such disparities exist all throughout the game, though. I've never seen anyone complain about Aquamancers getting cold/blunt/asphyx damage to choose from while Geomancers get yummy poison damage as an option.
Lerad, resilience is a whopping 6 dmp to poison damage. And that's all people commonly get, it's even less than nimbus' 10 dmp to divinus/excoro. 'Not everyone is a psionic' is quite the understatement.
Comparing physicals to divinus/excoro, though, it's quite clear which is the more advantageous choice. I don't think Celina/Enyalida's complaint is unjustified, is why I posted. The disparity certainly exists, and it's not something that should be brushed aside. I may or may not agree with their assertion that the -chems are better than the -woods - I haven't even sparred a wyrdenwood yet, much less assert anything on that topic - that's still up for debate. But aquachem's access to divinus is definitely an advantage over the woods' physicals.
There wasn't an ab last I checked, unless one has been added since...
Also, kinda want to see the lines for blaze.
EDIT: Oh, and the whole damage types thing seems like it should be off in a different thread and this one saved purely for wyrdenwood specific stuff. I want to comment but it'd really be all exclusively wildewood perspective stuff.
Edit: I can think of cacophony vs cantor. That's about it.
So does the one instance justify huge imbalances simply because it already exists a grand total of once somewhere else? No, I don't believe "disparity exists," is a rational argument to maintain imbalances.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Never mind that if I saw that I would just hack at a different branch.