Yeah. Um. If you happened to have not checked your lust list, you can be whisked into a death squad by Empress in exactly the way you described. Is there something different about the implementation of Abduct that makes it less fair than that?
Yes, we've been over this. I can REJECT THUL, and end that threat. This takes a few seconds. I cannot REJECT NIGHT. I have to be sure that I am already in a safe location before New Moon starts, unable to leave until New Moon ends. This takes at least fifteen minutes. Can you spot the difference?
We can also just say screw the abduct and rush said-gankee with 5 gloms to the same effect. You are making this a much larger deal than it needs to be.
Not siding with anyone on any of this. But to be honest, it was a draft of an idea that Thul has put together so I don't see why everyone is going bananas over it, its not like its been released or even has a slight chance of being released any time soon and I'm sure the admin would go over it anyway before hand and make their own tweaks to it as well, so just chill.
P.S. If you don't like this above idea, you could always think of ideas for another bard tertiary, we're not fussy, we don't need another primary, so a tertiary is just fine
We can also just say screw the abduct and rush said-gankee with 5 gloms to the same effect. You are making this a much larger deal than it needs to be.
...and Vacuum damage is balanced because three aeromancers could just point staff for the same damage? The problem is parity with other effects, in this case Terror and Empress, which this is a hybrid of.
Yeah. Um. If you happened to have not checked your lust list, you can be whisked into a death squad by Empress in exactly the way you described. Is there something different about the implementation of Abduct that makes it less fair than that?
Yes, we've been over this. I can REJECT THUL, and end that threat. This takes a few seconds. I cannot REJECT NIGHT. I have to be sure that I am already in a safe location before New Moon starts, unable to leave until New Moon ends. This takes at least fifteen minutes. Can you spot the difference?
Plenty of safe places to be, given the more strenuous targeting criteria. A quick bashing trip to the Undervault should do just fine. And you can't sneak New Moon on someone like you can Lust. There are two 15 minute windows every 25 hours, whereas creative application of blackout and lust mean you have many more opportunities than that, if you're an active combatant.
I mean, I'm not attached to the idea of continent-wide summon. It seemed thematically appropriate. But if it's a problem, I don't see how you can argue that Empress isn't a problem. Conditional instant-summon into murder in both cases.
Plenty of safe places to be, given the more strenuous targeting criteria. A quick bashing trip to the Undervault should do just fine. And you can't sneak New Moon on someone like you can Lust. There are two 15 minute windows every 25 hours, whereas creative application of blackout and lust mean you have many more opportunities than that, if you're an active combatant.
I mean, I'm not attached to the idea of continent-wide summon. It seemed thematically appropriate. But if it's a problem, I don't see how you can argue that Empress isn't a problem. Conditional instant-summon into murder in both cases.
Oh, don't get me wrong: I think that it's totally stupid that you can summon enemies cross continent with Tarot. But as long as we are talking about skills as they stand (and have stood for some time), I feel that forcing players to be in a safe location when New Moon starts or risk death without warning isn't fair compared to requiring Lust (which is easily managed with a script) or requiring several hits minimum (which means you have a warning before getting killed).
Plenty of safe places to be, given the more strenuous targeting criteria. A quick bashing trip to the Undervault should do just fine. And you can't sneak New Moon on someone like you can Lust. There are two 15 minute windows every 25 hours, whereas creative application of blackout and lust mean you have many more opportunities than that, if you're an active combatant.
I mean, I'm not attached to the idea of continent-wide summon. It seemed thematically appropriate. But if it's a problem, I don't see how you can argue that Empress isn't a problem. Conditional instant-summon into murder in both cases.
Oh, don't get me wrong: I think that it's totally stupid that you can summon enemies cross continent with Tarot. But as long as we are talking about skills as they stand (and have stood for some time), I feel that forcing players to be in a safe location when New Moon starts or risk death without warning isn't fair compared to requiring Lust (which is easily managed with a script) or requiring several hits minimum (which means you have a warning before getting killed).
And I feel like it's not incredibly hard to find safe places to bash during the 20-25mins it's night time during the new moon
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Yeah. Um. If you happened to have not checked your lust list, you can be whisked into a death squad by Empress in exactly the way you described. Is there something different about the implementation of Abduct that makes it less fair than that?
Yes, we've been over this. I can REJECT THUL, and end that threat. This takes a few seconds. I cannot REJECT NIGHT. I have to be sure that I am already in a safe location before New Moon starts, unable to leave until New Moon ends. This takes at least fifteen minutes. Can you spot the difference?
Doesn't Terror Coven or whatever it is called already mean you should be in a safe place during a new moon, or has that been changed since when you could attack from Glom to Seren?
Doesn't Terror Coven or whatever it is called already mean you should be in a safe place during a new moon, or has that been changed since when you could attack from Glom to Seren?
It means that, in the event that someone starts targeting you with Terror, you should quickly shield and/or path to a safe place. The important thing is that you may or may not be targeted by the Terror coven, and need only hide if they do decide to target you, since you are basically guaranteed to be able to survive at least a few hits. You have no such luxury with Abduct: you must be in a safe place when the New Moon begins, or risk being whisked away to a room that the Shadowdancer has set up Night effects in and ganked without warning.
As for avenger, that isn't a good excuse for any mechanic. If the admins decided to code up an 90% health instakill that could only be used in Avenger protected areas, that wouldn't make that skill fun or balanced, either to use or have used against you.
Doesn't Terror Coven or whatever it is called already mean you should be in a safe place during a new moon, or has that been changed since when you could attack from Glom to Seren?
It means that, in the event that someone starts targeting you with Terror, you should quickly shield and/or path to a safe place. The important thing is that you may or may not be targeted by the Terror coven, and need only hide if they do decide to target you, since you are basically guaranteed to be able to survive at least a few hits. You have no such luxury with Abduct: you must be in a safe place when the New Moon begins, or risk being whisked away to a room that the Shadowdancer has set up Night effects in and ganked without warning.
As for avenger, that isn't a good excuse for any mechanic. If the admins decided to code up an 90% health instakill that could only be used in Avenger protected areas, that wouldn't make that skill fun or balanced, either to use or have used against you.
You still are neglecting that you risk being ganked by a group anytime you are out hunting, anyone at anytime could declare you and murder you. I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be a good skill for ganking, I'm just saying you are making mountains out of molehills here. The limitations placed on the skill make it a pretty safe bet that you'll be somewhere safe when the New Moon rolls around.
You still are neglecting that you risk being ganked by a group anytime you are out hunting, anyone at anytime could declare you and murder you. I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be a good skill for ganking, I'm just saying you are making mountains out of molehills here. The limitations placed on the skill make it a pretty safe bet that you'll be somewhere safe when the New Moon rolls around.
Maybe you're right; I don't actually know how such a skill would pan out in game. I may be a bit overly concerned with ganking as well because of the toxic PK atmosphere Avenger creates. Anyway, I've made my case against the skill as proposed. I've written up other critiques as well, if anyone is interested in responding to them.
Overall, I like the skillset quite a bit, and hope it provides the admins with some inspiration for whatever updates wiccans eventually (hopefully) get.
I only read the first descriptive paragraph, and I love it. I don't really care about the skills, cuz they're never gonna get accepted by the admin, sadly, but this is beautiful.
Interesting theme, surely. However, I think it's a better (and much smaller) first step to work on both of the existing Wicca specs.
Fixed that for you. And anyway, this is purely theoretical. The best that could be hoped for is that the admins draw some inspiration from the discussion here.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
The vision of it is definitely beautiful and unique. Shazbat bomb and animated shadows. It's so Nighty and delicious. Hopefully the admin can cherry pick some ideas at the very least.
In all seriousness though, this is incredible, and I hope that if nothing else, the admin will get some inspiration for a new primary even if none of the skills make it. Except for Shazbat. Shazbat has to make it.
Wow I just realised I never commented on this skillset! This is a shame since I love the flavour and a lot of the mechanics. I think you captured the viciousness and self-harm to inflict greater harm on an enemy aspects of night very well!
The only complaint I can think of is that I don't feel that "Tahvotai" sounds very Night-like, it makes me think of martial arts.
It probably makes you think of martial arts because of Nekotai, which also comes from a fae word. It does seem both weird and weirdly appropriate that a spec that scares fae would be named after a fae word.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Comments
P.S. If you don't like this above idea, you could always think of ideas for another bard tertiary, we're not fussy, we don't need another primary, so a tertiary is just fine
As for avenger, that isn't a good excuse for any mechanic. If the admins decided to code up an 90% health instakill that could only be used in Avenger protected areas, that wouldn't make that skill fun or balanced, either to use or have used against you.
Overall, I like the skillset quite a bit, and hope it provides the admins with some inspiration for whatever updates wiccans eventually (hopefully) get.
In all seriousness though, this is incredible, and I hope that if nothing else, the admin will get some inspiration for a new primary even if none of the skills make it. Except for Shazbat. Shazbat has to make it.