Astrology - The Eternal Curse of the Birth Sign?

Veyrzhul

Astrologers can cast rays at targets for affliction or damage, depending on the ray. Notable about this:

1. Zodiac sign ray effects depend on the position of the planets, so their effects vary with time and are the same for all targets.
2. Planetary sign effects depend solely on the nativity of the target, i.e. when they were born (which OOCly depends on when you created your character).
3. Ray attacks are fast compared to normal eq-using attacks (an astrologer can probably help out with exact numbers).

The nastiest affliction on the list imo is aeon (although it doesn't really matter for my case here which one is), so all those who were born with aapek in a cardinal sign can be pounded with very fast aeon at all times (yes, I am one of them). Since this is nothing one can change, ever, unless you stop playing the character and create a new one with an eye on the nativity, it would be nice if there were some rotation for the effects of the planets, too (as there is for the sign rays). Opinions?

Llandros

You soooooo just set yourself up to have 50 people tell you the solution is for you to stop playing....

I know a few people that are boned in the nativity department and can see how it would be frustrating. However, as this does not directly affect me and is not something that I can take advantage of and or abuse I have no real opinion on it.

I think there may be some wiggle room with this but it seems to be the intent that some people will get screwed.

Enyalida

Does getting your age wangled with aeonics change anything? That only will ever benefit half the game, but it's a start?

Veyrzhul

Well, to be honest, with around 0.5 active astrologers around, if that, it's not a major issue for me. Just something that seems somewhat flawed from the get-go

Veyrzhul

Enyalida said:

Does getting your age wangled with aeonics change anything? That only will ever benefit half the game, but it's a start?

Good question. If so, that would help people adjust their nativity, but it would also screw astrologers in a way. That's why I'd rather have some kind of rotation than a way for people to change their nativity.

Xenthos

No, getting your age adjusted by astrology does not affect your birth sign (the game remembers your 'real' birthday; there is that +-20 range after all!)

Shuyin

Randomness and luck is a legitimate balancing factor for entire skills.

Bummer dude.

Saran

Xenthos said:

No, getting your age adjusted by astrology does not affect your birth sign (the game remembers your 'real' birthday; there is that +-20 range after all!)

Unless it's changed, your birthdate never actually changes with that so you can always tell when it's been adjusted.

Tacita

I just run away from astrologers. Really, really quickly. My nativity is...abysmal.

Cyndarin

Ha.

The only decent part of astrology (other than meteor) is the third of the population they can reliably aeon at any given time. The same way tarot. moon, and aeonics users can give it all the time. It's not "very fast." It's faster than others at 3 seconds. 

The solution to a somewhat unplayable and severely limited tertiary that has historically be avoided like the plague is not to limit it further with another layer of randomization.

Veyrzhul

Shuyin said:

Randomness and luck is a legitimate balancing factor for entire skills.

Bummer dude.

There's a difference between some regularly applied rng and a one time thing that never changes, though.

Shuyin

Under that argument, it would be unfair to astrologers if you could change your nativity, then I'd just do it and make mine super crappy (for them) to fight against.

Veyrzhul

I already said that, that's why I suggested a rotation.

Dys

There already is a rotation. 36% of the time astrologers can aeon everyone.

Veyrzhul

I'm well aware, you could still create a second rotation for the planetary signs with respect to people's nativity. Should run on a different speed than the zodiac sign rotation, so you don't end up having always the same group of people aeonable via planetary signs when everyone is aeonable via zodiac signs, anyway.

Dys

Mechanically I guess I'd be fine with still having a third of people aeonable via nativity. More complicated, but fine.

In style though, it makes more sense to me for people to just have one nativity and that's it.

I mostly agree with what Celina says. Astrology's fun but most of the time it's hard to use. I'd like meteors need to be bigger. Too many people survive four spheres with all their truefavours and dmp; getting more is usually impractical and often impossible.

Veyrzhul

Meteors by themselves are not meant to kill in a majority of the cases with four spheres, I think; that would make it a bit too easy considering the short delay and the fact that the caster can act while the meteor approaches. Some classes have it harder than others to effectively stack up additional damage to achieve a kill and/or keep the target in the room, though.

I personally found astrology very nice. It might be good to make some buffs independent of the constellation (needn't be the same ones that are currently achievable via spheres), and it would help to have meteor work indoors in some form, to make the whole skillset a bit less situational and thus perhaps more appealing especially to new players.

Cyndarin

I get the vague sense that you are trolling everyone with this "nerf astrology aeon" business, and we're being subjected to an awkward joke.

Astrology is easily the least reliable tertiary in the game, horribly outdated, and woefully lacking utility.

....and you think they should actively make it worse, more complicated, and more random because you had a slight case of bad luck and have aeon in your nativity, and astrologers can aeon you. Just like tarot users can. All the time.

I mean really. 

Shaddus

I kind of have to agree with Celina. You can't win all the time, and no matter how much you min-max stuff, you're not always going to have a good time. A guild skill which can aeon 33% of the population isn't terribly overpowered, even just for that 33% of people.

Tully

The problem is--not every skillset has to be perfected "balanced" or be equal.  Astrology from it's design is meant to be based on the stars and your birth date.  If you're trying to min-max astrology I think you're getting away from the general theme of it in the first place.

Veyrzhul

My suggestion is not about nerfing Astrology aeon, nor about min-maxing, it's just making it affect all people equally, instead of always the same ~33%, aeon-wise.
Now if rays really have a base casting time of 3 seconds, it's not as much of an issue, since that is, if I remember correctly, also the base casting time of aeonics aeon. I somehow recalled rays being faster than that, though.

Cyndarin

Yes, that's a nerf. If for not other reason than it requires astrologers to revamp their already complicated script not to benefit astrologers in the least, but to benefit people like you who have aeon in their nativity. As it is, nativity is the only reliable thing in astrology, and being able to keep track of who has aeon nativity saves them from having to NATIVITY BLAH 10 different people every fight. That would just be obscenely inconvenient and obnoxious. Which Astrology does not need more of, because it has plenty of both as is. 

It's been a minute, and I could be wrong, but I do want to say it's 3 seconds. I was wump so mine was faster, but that's just a wump thing. I can't test it since I'm a healer, but I know for sure my rays were not faster than 2 seconds, which as a wump it would be if the rays were 2.5 or 2 seconds to cast. So I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Dys

I checked and as a human mine are 2.7 ish, so maybe 2.5 taking my connection into account.

Laysus

I made it 2.6 as faeling, so including lag I'm agreeing with the 2.5 estimate for no eq modification. Also, playing with astrology at the moment. It can be rather nice at times, but relies on burning power for constellations or stelliums to get anything worthwhile out of it. Sure, 2.5s astrology is nice, but speaking from a Moondance POV I have relatively little to back it up with. It'd be nice if I could stack it with anorexia, but that's even trickier to add and while it exists in astrology it's as an alternate to aeon... and there are more complex options, but on the whole it could do with a little love.

Veyrzhul

Yea, Moondancers are probably the worst class to have astrology with. It goes pretty well with classes that have means of shutting down their target's curing/movement for extended periods of time, like Celestines (inquisition), Nihilists (crucify), Shadowdancers (final twist). I'm not an expert on Researchers, but I think it's a rather poor tertiary choice for them, as well. I've only ever been an Illuminati astrologer and found that pretty nice overall what with the nifty buffs and debuffs they have access to.

Laysus

Moondancers can at least shut down movement to an extent with shafts, and then you throw in snoefaasia and pigwidgeon and it's got potential, but it's a lot of work.

Cyndarin

It's great with twist. Because of meteor. Not because of fast sometimes aeon.

Astro is nice at times. Really, really nice in a rare few instances. Which is, not coincidentally, why it kinda sucks too.