I'm on board with Xenthos' interpretation of Jaspet's idea. I didn't read his suggestion that way, but if that's what he meant, it's a good idea.
Either way is preferable to the currently planned perk system. I doubt I'll ever get more than 3 or 4 perk points all together in the rest of my playing days.
With more granularity in the system, you'd be able to modify costs as much as you wanted. Maybe something new could be added that doesn't justify costing an entire five points, so you could list it at three? Right now in the current proposal there's no way to do 'partial points', it's just an integer 1 or 2.
On a bigger scope though, I do think there's a real risk that it's being balanced around how crazy people have been about hunting in the past few weeks. We're using gold lips, and tonics, and mince pies, and having big astral groups, and aetherbashing dragons, and I don't know how much we'll keep this pace up long term. I fully understand that this is a forever project, something that we're expected to work on for the next 10 YEARS of Lusternia, but maybe don't balance it around how motivated and excited people are in the now.
That said, if the super new bashing project area is going to be an experience fountain, we might all be looking back at a billion essence a point as trivial and meaningless this time next year. I am clearly not in a position to do more than speculate.
I feel like passive bonuses to criticals and weight 'along the way' exasperate the problem of haves vs. have-nots. In addition to whatever other useful investments they make, they'd just naturally be better bashers and have more demigod powers.
I agree that levels giving nothing until you hit a break point is less 'fun' though, so maybe instead the cost of everything useful could be multiplied by five, and crit/weight could just require less points / be scaled appropriately? That way, you could get a point every level and still potentially do something with it.
It already is going to cost 1 billion essence for your first two perk points, making this any higher than it is and you will see hardly anyone with perk points.
Jaspet can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're misunderstanding him. His suggestion reads to me as:
1) Give a perk point every level instead of every 5 levels.
2) Keep crits & weight at 1 perk point cost per (so there's something you can invest in every level if you want).
3) Any other power that originally cost 1 point now costs 5.
4) Any power that cost 2 points now costs 10.
Because you're getting 5x as many points as you go, the essence costs to achieve all non-crit/weight powers would be exactly the same, but instead of only getting an "achievable" every 5 levels you get one every time you level up, and you can choose to either invest it or save it for future use.
This isn't my preferred solution, but is more closely aligned with the original design of the system (and thus may be more preferable from the admin standpoint?). It's definitely better than the current setup. I frankly have very little interest in the current design; I'll get 2 perk points and then just not really bother further I think. I'm not interested in the exp grind for the sake of the exp grind, I mostly just get mine in the course of pursuing dailies anyways / helping others get theirs.
If there was a point every level, at least it would give a "Hey, I'm close to leveling up now and I get something for it, maybe I should go push ahead!" As-is, there's just no incentive to me for that.
I don't think this really solves much as it doesn't really change anything - you still need 5 levels to get the cheap perks (beyond the crits/weight)
Wise Leader - your squads will gain 10% more xp at a cost of 10% less gold. AvariciousLeader - your squads will gain 10% more gold at a cost of 10% less xp. DomotheosMaster - You will no longer drain/lose essence while in the domoth realms. This extends to the Stage 3 essence drain as well.
We fully understand that not everyone is going to diving in headfirst to try and get as many perks as possible. We've tried to make a system that is nice if you take part and go for it, but not one that forces people to feel like they need to do so. We don't expect many people to get tons of perks and we just wanted to make sure there were options for different playstyles to take advantage of them.
Thanks for releasing so fast! It's great to have the new system in the game.
If ideas are still being taken into consideration, there should at least be something like a 0.1% crit bonus per level. A little incremental growth at each level would feel more rewarding, instead of there being a many month gulf before having any return for the essence spent on levels.
Omniscience shouldn't be gated this hard. Either this is a social game where we're supposed to communicate or why bother. It shouldn't feel like a chore to communicate with others.
Why does it have a drain? It is perk points. Are the people who get the ability for free this jealous that it needs a drain? It wouldn't have needed a drain as a demi power. Not having to spend perk points or weight is enough of a different in skills.
I just don't get Permanence. This isn't 1990. These sorts of outdated level punishments just feel like we're waiting for some player to misstep and have their entire character have potentially years of effort destroyed. It might have a place in a less exponential system, but not in one where you're expecting most players to get one or two abilities.
One the plus side, I want to suggest a new perk.
1 perk point: Master of Reality. Tapping into the mysterious power of the Seal of Time you are able to fuse into an alternate reality where you gained a different seal. , Syntax: Manifest Reality (Beauty|Nature|...)
Cost: 25 million Essence.
Yes this means that ascendants with weaker seals can 'flex' into a seal with more useful powers. Likewise sealholders can 'seal' a power from a different seal.
Demigods don't need to risk losing status and powers. It really doesn't do much other than punish the player.
Give 0.10% crit per level for the first 10 and 0.05% for levels after that.
Make omniscience a level 110 inherent (keeping it a bit rarer) but make it only hearing and then make a 1 perk power to speak.
Omni has an upkeep cost because regular Cult Omni has an upkeep cost; the cult version just uses cult essence instead of personal. Note that this is not support for essence upkeep costs, just an explanation. I don't think I have used the new Nature power even once because it has an upkeep for example (has anyone?).
Your perk point idea is one I would actually buy. Even the total weight of Nature powers is pretty puny; then adding in their actual effects, it really does not compare to other seals. It should not impact domoths though (so you cannot flip to whatever domoth you are trying to claim for faster speeds).
I also think that if it is possible, splitting omni up like that could be useful. Newbies can speak to you, and anyone who has leveled that far has ways to get back in range for a normal conversation. May not be feasible coding wise though.
If that is not possible, what about making omni a 1 perk point instead?
Communication from bubbles/aetherspace is meant to be difficult, so much so that it is a strain to maintain listening to the aethers, and thus the drain associated with it.
I don't believe that making omniscience a challenge to get makes it a chore to communicate. If anything, it actually reduces the burden by making it more widely available to everyone.
We won't be allowing you to 'trade' your medallion. If you want the powers associated with a certain medallion, you'll need to earn that medallion.
I am leaning towards re-adding the crit bonus per level. It was a part of the initial proposal (along with a minor vitals boost) but there were several players very vocally against it. Maybe it was more the vitals than the crit, but that's why we didn't have any natural per level gain with the final proposal.
It was more the vitals than the crit bonus I believe, that was the case for me anyways, largely due to vitals having a direct impact on pvp (even if its tiny or small enough to be imagined). I'm definitely on board the crit bonus train though. It feels very strange at the moment to not have any reason to level unless you can afford all five at once.
So, if I buy one level at 50 million essence, I have a tenth of a percent higher crit hit rate.
Her voice firm and commanding, Terentia, the Even Bladed says to you, "You have kept your oath to Me, Parhelion. You have sworn to maintain Justice in these troubled times."
Yet if a boon be granted me, unworthy as I am, let it be for a steady hand with a clear eye and a fury most inflaming.
I like all this, especially the passive gaining idea. I would like to see an ability that would somehow help families/houses grow for those are part of them and achieve at this level, if possible.
So I got ascendant while at Level 104... so I actually lost 0.1% (not a massive loss) for being ascended as you don't gain a level if you're above 100.
Essentially I blew 50 mil essence getting Level 101 (I would have gotten that free if I was ascended from 100) and lose 0.1% crit hit bonus for the privilege?
Ascendants have a naturally higher critical rate than demigods, so by gaining VA, your critical rate actually increases more than the 0.1% you 'lost'. Demigods have a crit rate of 42.18% (42.28% at 101) while Ascendants have 43.89%
The other thing is the essence cost to jump from 104-105 is 90 million essence, so you would actually net gain 40 million essence if we applied that extra level. Obviously, that difference would be much larger if you have more levels and smaller if you had less.
Ascendants have a whole lot of things going for them already - notably the 100 demipower weight, faster domoth claims, and various things like flight. clairsentience etc.
Ascendants are already pretty special, I don't feel potentially losing out on 50million essence is a big deal in exchange.
Would still really love to see more RP/Flavour-based demigod powers. Getting to Demigod is a slog, and aside from some Choice options, it definitely feels like "Why bother?" if you're not interested in participating in combat or just trying to get more crafting abilities.
As someone who focuses primarily on RP, and secondarily on Other Things, having fun trinkets is also fun.
Comments
Either way is preferable to the currently planned perk system. I doubt I'll ever get more than 3 or 4 perk points all together in the rest of my playing days.
On a bigger scope though, I do think there's a real risk that it's being balanced around how crazy people have been about hunting in the past few weeks. We're using gold lips, and tonics, and mince pies, and having big astral groups, and aetherbashing dragons, and I don't know how much we'll keep this pace up long term. I fully understand that this is a forever project, something that we're expected to work on for the next 10 YEARS of Lusternia, but maybe don't balance it around how motivated and excited people are in the now.
That said, if the super new bashing project area is going to be an experience fountain, we might all be looking back at a billion essence a point as trivial and meaningless this time next year. I am clearly not in a position to do more than speculate.
Explorer (80%), Achiever (53%), Socializer (53%), Killer (13%)
Bartle Taxonomy
(test yourself)
Wise Leader - your squads will gain 10% more xp at a cost of 10% less gold.
AvariciousLeader - your squads will gain 10% more gold at a cost of 10% less xp.
DomotheosMaster - You will no longer drain/lose essence while in the domoth realms. This extends to the Stage 3 essence drain as well.
We fully understand that not everyone is going to diving in headfirst to try and get as many perks as possible. We've tried to make a system that is nice if you take part and go for it, but not one that forces people to feel like they need to do so. We don't expect many people to get tons of perks and we just wanted to make sure there were options for different playstyles to take advantage of them.
If ideas are still being taken into consideration, there should at least be something like a 0.1% crit bonus per level. A little incremental growth at each level would feel more rewarding, instead of there being a many month gulf before having any return for the essence spent on levels.
Omniscience shouldn't be gated this hard. Either this is a social game where we're supposed to communicate or why bother. It shouldn't feel like a chore to communicate with others.
Why does it have a drain? It is perk points. Are the people who get the ability for free this jealous that it needs a drain? It wouldn't have needed a drain as a demi power. Not having to spend perk points or weight is enough of a different in skills.
I just don't get Permanence. This isn't 1990. These sorts of outdated level punishments just feel like we're waiting for some player to misstep and have their entire character have potentially years of effort destroyed. It might have a place in a less exponential system, but not in one where you're expecting most players to get one or two abilities.
One the plus side, I want to suggest a new perk.
1 perk point: Master of Reality. Tapping into the mysterious power of the Seal of Time you are able to fuse into an alternate reality where you gained a different seal. , Syntax: Manifest Reality (Beauty|Nature|...)
Cost: 25 million Essence.
Yes this means that ascendants with weaker seals can 'flex' into a seal with more useful powers. Likewise sealholders can 'seal' a power from a different seal.
Demigods don't need to risk losing status and powers. It really doesn't do much other than punish the player.
Give 0.10% crit per level for the first 10 and 0.05% for levels after that.
Make omniscience a level 110 inherent (keeping it a bit rarer) but make it only hearing and then make a 1 perk power to speak.
I don't believe that making omniscience a challenge to get makes it a chore to communicate. If anything, it actually reduces the burden by making it more widely available to everyone.
We won't be allowing you to 'trade' your medallion. If you want the powers associated with a certain medallion, you'll need to earn that medallion.
I am leaning towards re-adding the crit bonus per level. It was a part of the initial proposal (along with a minor vitals boost) but there were several players very vocally against it. Maybe it was more the vitals than the crit, but that's why we didn't have any natural per level gain with the final proposal.
Hype. Levels worth getting each time now!
Essentially I blew 50 mil essence getting Level 101 (I would have gotten that free if I was ascended from 100) and lose 0.1% crit hit bonus for the privilege?
The other thing is the essence cost to jump from 104-105 is 90 million essence, so you would actually net gain 40 million essence if we applied that extra level. Obviously, that difference would be much larger if you have more levels and smaller if you had less.
Ascendants have a whole lot of things going for them already - notably the 100 demipower weight, faster domoth claims, and various things like flight. clairsentience etc.
Ascendants are already pretty special, I don't feel potentially losing out on 50million essence is a big deal in exchange.
As someone who focuses primarily on RP, and secondarily on Other Things, having fun trinkets is also fun.