Timequakes and Survival

Alexandria

I just want to say publicly somewhere, that if you're just trying to survive timequakes and Alexandria's in there, she's not going to attack solo people. 1) I'm a dreadful combatant anyway and always have been, and 2) it's really not a great way to foster rivalry instead of hatred. So if you want to survive your minute and if I'm able to help you do so, please feel free to say something. There are several others who feel the same, who get kinda OOC disgusted with this jumping business (on both sides, please, before I get asked to source my assertions). I've actively tried to stop our alliance from jumping solo lowbies/midbies regularly, and at the very least do not take part in it.

And since I saw the comment IC but Alex wouldn't talk to the sayer, I just want to say - I don't feel entitled to survive. In no way have I ever said that. I go in, I take my deaths, and don't talk trash. I don't like that I'm jumped when I'm not deffed and lagging, but I also don't run around complaining about it endlessly, I don't cuss people out and I don't generally take it to heart. It doesn't mean I don't think people are butts for the instacrush.

Nyana

Eh, I'm conflicted about this. I hate seeing solo people getting targeted when they don't normally even pk, and/or couldn't do much if they tried. On the other hand, I die routinely 3-4 times per opposite side favoured timequake, and I'm well aware that no one from Glomdoring is going to make the same offer to me - ok. I view it as a challenge to get better at surviving. 

So, what's my motivation, for letting someone have this favour that I'm never going to get? There's some on the other side I'd be willing to let survive, but not *anyone*. The rest can just do what I do, and view it as a learning experience.

But hey! I'm not that threatening alone, anyway.

Toshiko

I've been to the point where I don't bother even chasing or attacking a solo person because there just is no point in being a jerk about it. I become disgusted though with what I hear after people die in says and Crux though, it's just pathetic taunting people and belittling them...for what, trying? These people know who they are, and it makes me so glad I barely have to deal with them. I've tried to let people through because as Alexandria has stated, it can go both ways and it has. I've been given my minute warnings and if I stay too long they'll kill me, unless you're Keegan, because he's just Keegan.

Maligorn

I also confess that I'm conflicted. I'm completely unsympathetic to the plea towards entitlement that some people may feel to timequakes (I know you clarified that for yourself, but I mean for other people). Otoh, I feel like the topic of mercy could be discussed IG, and there are different avenues ripe for RP to achieve that mercy. I know Gurashi passed through the desolate kephera timequake once, literally walking into us, and 95% of us just let him do his thing.

Unfairly, that's also because we know Gurashi is adorable and kind OOCly.

ICly (i.e. fairly), we know he's not much of a fighter.

Some people have earned their reputation to be KOS, whether by being annoying, condescending, or just Too Dangerous To Leave Alive, or offending the org of whoever's bunkered up in the timequake. They should work to resolve that, not ask for a free pass OOC. Anecdotally, only one person has ever asked me personally if I'd look the other way for them.

I'm still formulating thoughts on this so I might be wishy-washy, fair warning.

Coraline

Huh, I didn't know asking if I could stay for a minute was an option. That would be nice. Personally, I wouldn't hold it against the other side if they said no, though.

Edit- not that it matters because I always get lost and forget where the rift is, anyway  >.<

Ilthilior

Toshiko said:

I've been to the point where I don't bother even chasing or attacking a solo person because there just is no point in being a jerk about it. I become disgusted though with what I hear after people die in says and Crux though, it's just pathetic taunting people and belittling them...for what, trying? These people know who they are, and it makes me so glad I barely have to deal with them. I've tried to let people through because as Alexandria has stated, it can go both ways and it has. I've been given my minute warnings and if I stay too long they'll kill me, unless you're Keegan, because he's just Keegan.

I'm going to say this - I'm far more reactive than I am proactive. I don't really care to be a jerk in the game, though sometimes RP comes across that way.

There was once upon a time when people did promise (with the advent of orgcredits) that everyone would be given a fair share to go to places to at least get credit for things. I tried to play nice, I tried to give people the benefit of the doubt. I got attacked a few too many times while doing things. It wasn't once. It wasn't twice.

I'm sure you can understand where the frustration is coming from. You may not have done these things specifically yourself, but you also shouldn't expect everyone at every conflict event to just give free passes. I also don't expect anyone to give me a free pass, either - but I also prefer the potential conflict far more than credit for the promostatus, so you don't see me venturing into 'held' timequakes, for example.

Maligorn

Oh, big important thing to note. People are hesitant to splinter the group, because it invites chaos/a chance for the enemy to break in.

For example. A Celestian who's enemied to Magnagora walks in, say they're the average player. Magnagora has a high chance of wanting to beeline towards them. The majority of Hallifax is going to either be indifferent or actually not wanting to engage. I can't speak for Serenwilde.

But say we all split up to let Magnagora go fulfill their obligations as roleplayers while hesitant Hallis stayed behind and did the same. You just split your group for a very poor reason. Now that rando Celestian is crying out on their clan to COME IN NOW, THEY'RE SPLIT!!! and then we get wiped.

Nobody really wants to go through that, I think, even with roleplaying in mind.

Toshiko

I'm not expecting people just to hand out free passes, that would be silly to demand. Either it is given or it isn't, and that's fine. I've asked and have been asked, sometimes they go well, most times they don't. My gripe is how poor some people speak about and treat the people going in solo just to get the credit, even when they're accepting the deaths they get.

Alexandria

What @Toshiko said. I just don't see the point of brutality in it. I'm not saying I'm perfect and offer this to everybody, because that's definitely not true. But when you see someone come back in three times, literally being attacked before they can even move, and they just die, it's kind of pointless.

To one of the other points, I've followed along and just... not attacked when it's not necessary. If people want to be jerks to the solos who aren't there to fight, then I can't stop them. I don't have to help them, though - despite the complaints I have heard about it from some.

Dys

I don't mind letting people get a tick if they ask, though it's fun trying to kill people in under a minute too. More of a challenge in a small group than a big one obviously.

On the other side I'm happy trying to survive for a cumulative minute so feel free to repeatedly murder me in any timequakes.

I know some people don't like fighting but I don't always know who the newer ones are. We could come up with a symbol for peace, like a white flag or similar but a Lusternian thing to hold that I could highlight to make me pause? It's not a guarantee but some would go with it as long as it's not abused for scouting.

Kistan

Come in at the end when they have got the last anomaly

Makai

People are currently camping the rift until there isn't even a minute left on the quake specifically for that reason, as well.

Kistan

That is just poor!

Of course there are plenty of other ways to get those ticks that you don't actually have to go into timequakes so maybe they should use those.

The one minute nature of the timequake is tempting though - maybe it should take longer - I don't think the intention was ever endless suicide runs?

Synl

Isn't the point of open PvP area to expect PvP? If I'm walking through Air, I expect to be attacked even though I'm not enemied. Kind of the same for timequakes imo. I mean obviously it's nice if I don't but.... Not an expectation.

Drastrath

I think the biggest reason to get a tick is not the dailycredits at this point (you have other options). However, I think the importance is the promo. The promo is an entitlement though. It is literally a handout (one that I take my lashing to get). 

Kistan

Should have changed the promo to just touching the rift.

C'est la guerre

Parhelion

I'm usually of the "live and let live" sort of mentality,  whereas if I feel like you're just there to get credit and your side isn't actively trying to take the anomaly, I'd let you stand around. Especially Gurashi and a few others, like Faragan/Toshiko/Coraline.

But if an opposing big name player tends to not want to return the favour, or goes out of their way to grief someone who isn't generally known for seeking out conflict (see: Glom and Celest players who thought it prudent to attack Ayisdra on Prime outside a rift when timequakes were new and Ayisdra just wanted to explore the timequake), then I usually am less merciful towards that player's org/alliance buddies.

This also goes for players who find it amusing to gust people or attack people who show up to aethertrade. I've been known to help (mostly Glom) midbies who show up to trade and can't get to the gnome, but I've also had higher Gloms get physical when I show up and just tell me "it's a competition".

Nyana

Synl said:

Isn't the point of open PvP area to expect PvP? If I'm walking through Air, I expect to be attacked even though I'm not enemied. Kind of the same for timequakes imo. I mean obviously it's nice if I don't but.... Not an expectation.

Obviously, but walking through Air doesn't give dailycredits or promocoins. There's an incentive for people who would normally avoid open PvP areas to go to them anyway, via an ooc reward system. So there are people that I sympathize with trying to take advantage of that. 

Nyana

Kistan said:

That is just poor!

Of course there are plenty of other ways to get those ticks that you don't actually have to go into timequakes so maybe they should use those.

The one minute nature of the timequake is tempting though - maybe it should take longer - I don't think the intention was ever endless suicide runs?

Interesting idea. Would you be able to survive for five minutes or so without 10+ Glom fighters around you?

Xenthos

Choros said:

This also goes for players who find it amusing to gust people or attack people who show up to aethertrade. I've been known to help (mostly Glom) midbies who show up to trade and can't get to the gnome, but I've also had higher Gloms get physical when I show up and just tell me "it's a competition".

I only aethertrade when Yendor asks me to come up.  More than once I have finished the trade, watched while a third person tried to do their thing, and someone else ran in / sniped the trade.  I tried to gust Ayisdra out once when he ran in while Aurik was trying to finish a trade, but the gust failed and Aurik missed out.  I don't know that I have heard of the muscling thing happening from your side, but sniping is commonly mentioned.

The whole aethertrading thing kind of bugs me still, even with three trades it heavily rewards scripting to make sure that you are the one who gets the trade in regardless of what else is going on / who else is already at the trader.  I would like it better if it was something like "person can get 1 trade per weave" or something... reduce the incentive / need for sniping.  The traders can stick around for 5 minutes instead of x trades.  Then it is not always the same people rushing for the thing.  The current way just seems like it emphasizes (and rewards) competition... which also then drives "play to win" behaviour.

Note: I personally have never refined anything high enough to trade for anything for myself so I don't care about it at all on a personal level, my observations are more of a third party observer who sees and empathizes with the frustration.  This thing is really lucrative...

Edit: Also when I come up I am trading for anomalies, not goop stuff, because we have been trying to push research.  There is at least an end to my participation eventually.  But it also does mean more people rushing for the things when the limited access fuels research OR personal profits, because the pool of people who are going to go for them is significantly increased.

Parhelion

Nyana said:

Kistan said:

That is just poor!

Of course there are plenty of other ways to get those ticks that you don't actually have to go into timequakes so maybe they should use those.

The one minute nature of the timequake is tempting though - maybe it should take longer - I don't think the intention was ever endless suicide runs?

Interesting idea. Would you be able to survive for five minutes or so without 10+ Glom fighters around you?

DOWN KITTEH

Kistan

Nyana said:

Kistan said:

That is just poor!

Of course there are plenty of other ways to get those ticks that you don't actually have to go into timequakes so maybe they should use those.

The one minute nature of the timequake is tempting though - maybe it should take longer - I don't think the intention was ever endless suicide runs?

Interesting idea. Would you be able to survive for five minutes or so without 10+ Glom fighters around you?

No but then would I go in with those odds? 

I would not do a village/domoth/wild nodes with those odds either

Drastrath

Kistan said:

Nyana said:

Kistan said:

That is just poor!

Of course there are plenty of other ways to get those ticks that you don't actually have to go into timequakes so maybe they should use those.

The one minute nature of the timequake is tempting though - maybe it should take longer - I don't think the intention was ever endless suicide runs?

Interesting idea. Would you be able to survive for five minutes or so without 10+ Glom fighters around you?

No but then would I go in with those odds? 

I would not do a village/domoth/wild nodes with those odds either

So, the logic is: A. Pick the side with the larger population (Snowball). B. Only play the game when numbers work toward your favor. 

Neither of these options are good. 

I guess we should all just play Lusternia as a secondary game, and only play when the stars align? 

Kistan

Or play tactically and pick your fights rather than all the fights?

I find the overwhelming odds of either side dull.

My favourite fights are the 10 vs 10 fghts and I will happily turn up to those every time

Nyana

Kistan said:

Nyana said:

Kistan said:

That is just poor!

Of course there are plenty of other ways to get those ticks that you don't actually have to go into timequakes so maybe they should use those.

The one minute nature of the timequake is tempting though - maybe it should take longer - I don't think the intention was ever endless suicide runs?

Interesting idea. Would you be able to survive for five minutes or so without 10+ Glom fighters around you?

No but then would I go in with those odds? 

I would not do a village/domoth/wild nodes with those odds either

These are all different events with different considerations, though. With timequakes presently, getting promocoins is an incentive for many people. I can't buy credits or artifacts at the moment, so for me there is plenty of incentive to take those deaths for the slight chance of getting something I have few options, otherwise, of getting.

Now, villages, those give orgcredits for participation, which results in in-game credit distribution for orgs and the players of those orgs. That's also an incentive to show up, regardless of how stacked the odds are. But domoths? All you get for showing up (and a fairly long wait, too, compared to the others), is dailycredits, which can be gotten in many other ways. So, of course I and most people are not going to show up against overwhelming odds.

Saying that it's not a big deal to *you* ignores these considerations for other players. Participation should be possible, victory should be earned.

Kistan

I agree with you about the promocoins.

I think I was thinking more outside of that - even before the promocoins, people were running in. Its minimal effort with minimal downside

(Edit: It does not seem to have got any worse or better since the promo started)

Kistan

Of course for the 2 curios I got, I may as well have spent my time doing a village quest! Twice

Nyana

Kistan said:

Of course for the 2 curios I got, I may as well have spent my time doing a village quest! Twice

I got a crystal once I'd actually be fine with the time be extended after the promo is over. There's no point when we're outnumbered 5 to 1. Which we usually are.

Coraline

Kistan said:

Or play tactically and pick your fights rather than all the fights?

I find the overwhelming odds of either side dull.

My favourite fights are the 10 vs 10 fghts and I will happily turn up to those every time

My favourite fights are food fights! (I still think we should have one such event, where you're only allowed to throw pies and other foods at each other)

Alexandria

One other comment I'd like to make is about this 'entitlement' business.

Boy, some of you sound like grandpa shaking his stick at the kids on his lawn. How DARE other people enjoy something on a game! The outrage! The insanity!

Ayisdra

Most of the time, I only go into the timequake for the promo point. Given that there is no loss for dying (Which is the only reason I even bother with timequakes/promocredit), I can easily go in 60 times if I need to. I like to believe that I pose next to zero threat to anyone (I guess at most, I can break a meld, but half the time I forget to do even that).