Okay so this is the answer I am seeking then. Who did what? I need specifics. Because if someone did something that was unethical immoral or otherwise horrible and it is someone that I spend my time with I want to know. What great horrible atrocities has anyone in Glomdoring done?
Edit: I am being serious. If a group of people are going to be slandered constantly, I want to know what person is causing this whole organisation to be victimised. What did that person or people do? Because currently I have four people who have gone from telling me I am fun to play with or great to talk to or whatever, to being absolute dicks towards me without any explanation.
2nd edit: On the other side of that I have a few people who made alts in Glom and have told me they were 'warned' against befriending me for various slanderous reasons. And when they actually come and play with me (usually on an ooc level more than anything) they realise they have been lied to and have been subjected to this constant battering of my person. How can that kind of behaviour be good for the game? And they stay in Glom, and the choose to play less in those orgs. Because they see how different a game play they have when they are in a community that doesn't allow for the constant vilification of a person. Which is what has happened to me personally. A lot of people hate on me they don't even have first hand experience of playing with me. They just go off of what they hear from these so called victims of my 'harassment' of them which is very often me just snubbing them after dealing with their bullying behaviours. This is just my own personal experience. But I know others have been subjected to it. And they quit.
A lot of people have made the point of our org creating a very nice welcoming community IC and OOCly. Its the main reason why it does so well. When we have disruptive or trolly people they get weeded out because that type of behavior isn't tollerated for long.
If the org did get deleted it wouldn't wipe that out no but it wouldn't remain the same. Or even if another org was deleted and all its players got shunted into our org same thing it wouldn't be the same. It'd take time to rebuild the safety nets we have and prune out the trolls.
I'm not saying it can't be done but if a bunch of us have to move to a new org its going to take time to rebuild right.
@Enadonella I was not going to get involved. But since you have asked why people react the way they do, and it is possible that you do not know and are asking, then I will give you an example.
Just talking about the latest - in the other thread, you accused people of not engaging in attempts towards skill balance and simply complaining about Glom and Glom skills all the time without working to fix things. I would like to point you towards what happens when people do try to engage in discussions about skill balance, and Glomdoring's reaction to it, from the latest Night report.
To support the original poster of this report, who's main issue is one class having access to aeon and asthma as active cast spells and the ability to spam these abilities in group combat we've made a similar report to address the same, if not stronger issue with Institute. Anyone who feels a class having access to asthma and aeon as fast as Shadowdancers do should obviously feel the same issue with institute having an even faster asthma. Check out report 04191302 to show your support for nerfing asthma and aeon skills across the board from the two classes that have access it it without a tert.
The retaliatory report has been deleted. If you wish to report on Institute with legitimate solutions, feel free to make a report on it, but mirroring this report to try and play into the envoy wars is simply unacceptable. Further conduct similar to this will be punished more extremely. - Orael
It's not exactly like the solutions in this report are legitimate...
When Glomdoring sees game balance as a war to be won, and skills that are more powerful than the rest of the game's as a prize of war not to be surrendered without retaliation towards the "other side", and that the way to protect their interests is to make snide comments and literally exhaust everyone who wants to talk about your skills until they give up... then, as a player, I don't want to be the one being exhausted until I quit talking. I don't want to engage with those players, not just in terms of skill balancing, but generally in my gaming experience. I have never harassed anybody. But I value my gaming experience too, and I can choose not to engage with those that worsen it.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
That original report is a prime example of Bias and envoy waring Aramel. 1 Class has had access to asthma and aeon together for ages. Then a different class gets access to it and suddenly its a problem. :eyeroll:
Let's try and keep it on topic. I think the original question is worthwhile, and it's starting to stray a bit in a way that may discourage others from sharing how they feel!
Complaints or concerns about envoys/balance/etc... are fine to make threads about so long as we can try to keep a certain level of civility. If you have direct issues with other players, you should definitely submit an issue or e-mail support.
Edit: I know some of you were typing posts while I was making this one. Those ones that came in after mine were removed just so everyone else didn't feel temptation to keep trying to get in the last word. Thanks!
Edit edit: Hey now. Don't try and hide continuing that line of discussion in between on-topic bits. That's cheating!
@Enadonella Not all minorities are positive. Nothing against LGBTQI people, and it takes guts to talk about that stuff on the forums. You will never get any trouble from me over that. It is a part of who you are. People will judge you based on the people you *choose* to associate with. This is not the same as the above, as it is a choice you have actively made.
It is not homophobia, or racism, or anything of the sort. It is judging a person based on a choice they have made, nothing more and nothing less.
Hm.. he is right about that, even to how I am perceived for being a Celestian or a Seren at the time. Like, rp'ly I or Celestians gets this perception that we are just weak/cowards, etc because we associate with Glomdoring. So yes, there is a judgment based on who you associate with.
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
I might try to move, though the loss of some characters/players who would have been part of that moving storyline would make it incredibly difficult.
For me, it's a matter of emotional energy. After playing in the Serenguard for a decade, the loss of that guild was HARD. But I was able to invest a lot of that emotional energy into helping to create the Wodewoses. I don't know if my experience was similar to the experiences of other people who helped design the new factions, but for me, it involved a lot of heartache, tough discussions, and emotional work to help design something that had such high expectations, that needed to compete with the richness and complexity of the previous guilds, to make them something other players would want to join. Though I was the leader of the Wodewoses after it first came out, I was actually grateful when first challenged, because by that time, I was mentally exhausted and had taken up the leadership position out of a sense of duty to help get the guild off the ground since I probably understood it the best in the beginning. It was a while before I gradually crept back into more active playing times (and because of RL stuff, I still havent' been able to be truly "active").
I simply don't know if I'd have the emotional energy to move the character through another forced loss of something I was so invested in.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
@Everiine Would it cheer you up if you got the character change? You could become Beverliine!
Beverliine is a woman, and is very womanly. This WOMAN before you is so womanly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause she's the womanliest woman that you ever did see. Her womanly shape has driven many men and manlier girls to boughs of nosebleeds. She stands before you in a womanly manerific typical woman-like outfit which is covered in her womanly motto: "I am woman!"
1
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
It would figure that, if Ev became a womanbird, everyone would suddenly start mistaking her for a man .
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
(In case it wasn't clear, the reason that VERY old forum quote is in the signature is because, especially the first few years, people CONSTANTLY though Ev was a woman. It led to many jokes.)
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
@Enadonella Not all minorities are positive. Nothing against LGBTQI people, and it takes guts to talk about that stuff on the forums. You will never get any trouble from me over that. It is a part of who you are. People will judge you based on the people you *choose* to associate with. This is not the same as the above, as it is a choice you have actively made.
It is not homophobia, or racism, or anything of the sort. It is judging a person based on a choice they have made, nothing more and nothing less.
Hm.. he is right about that, even to how I am perceived for being a Celestian or a Seren at the time. Like, rp'ly I or Celestians gets this perception that we are just weak/cowards, etc because we associate with Glomdoring. So yes, there is a judgment based on who you associate with.
I mean I get that. But the point was, do you think Vey or I would be treated fairly by say, Magnagora, if we chose to move there coming from Glomdoring opposed to if we had been Celestian or Gaudi this whole time? No. Put aside that we are who we are. If we were just two random Gloms. There is no way that we would be treated as fairly. Especially not at first. The only time that is not the case is when troll alts from Glomdoring return their alts to their main's org. As far as I can tell! Being a part of an org or being persecuted for being associated with an org is a prime example of how a group is being treated unfairly.
@Enadonella Not all minorities are positive. Nothing against LGBTQI people, and it takes guts to talk about that stuff on the forums. You will never get any trouble from me over that. It is a part of who you are. People will judge you based on the people you *choose* to associate with. This is not the same as the above, as it is a choice you have actively made.
It is not homophobia, or racism, or anything of the sort. It is judging a person based on a choice they have made, nothing more and nothing less.
Hm.. he is right about that, even to how I am perceived for being a Celestian or a Seren at the time. Like, rp'ly I or Celestians gets this perception that we are just weak/cowards, etc because we associate with Glomdoring. So yes, there is a judgment based on who you associate with.
I mean I get that. But the point was, do you think Vey or I would be treated fairly by say, Magnagora, if we chose to move there coming from Glomdoring opposed to if we had been Celestian or Gaudi this whole time? No. Put aside that we are who we are. If we were just two random Gloms. There is no way that we would be treated as fairly. Especially not at first. The only time that is not the case is when troll alts from Glomdoring return their alts to their main's org. As far as I can tell! Being a part of an org or being persecuted for being associated with an org is a prime example of how a group is being treated unfairly.
I'd also expect to be treated differently in Mag if I went there after being a Lisaeran Elfen Serenwilder before moving.
Players have made choices through their RP that make certain other RP choices more or less difficult. If you don't want to deal with the consequences of a more difficult choice then take an easier route.
Trying to muddle things on purpose doesn't help the conversation, especially with false information. Majority of Magnagora would welcome refugees from Glomdoring and be given a fair shake if they abide by rules. There will be certain individuals that get turned away or made to jump through enough hoops specifically bceause of their IC actions, nothing more. Making attempts at saying all of Magnagora hates all of Glomdoring is just false. Saran put it quite well, "Live with the IC decisions you've made."
That still comes back to choices, just OOC rather than IC.
From what I've seen of discussions so far elsewhere, just being a Glom (for example) isn't going to impact your ability to get into an org. The people who are going to have difficulty getting in are the people who have actively made choices that make the org they want to join unlikely to let them in.
Honestly, some people's choices since Estarra first posted about orgs potentially being deleted have really just cemented their personal place as persona non grata.
OOC should have NO impact on your ability to move to ANY organisation. Sure, if YOU, the PLAYER have made choices that your character has conducted, your CHARACTER will be judged on those choices and, woe, you'll have to roleplay the consequences.
Consequences aren't some mechanical hurdle to be avoided though. They're trials in a story, and in Lusternia, your character is going through their epic Basin legend and trials are one of, if not one of the better highways to roleplay.
OOC should have NO impact on your ability to move to ANY organisation.
Ideally, you're right. But it happens all the time, sometimes with good reason.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Cool well all Ena has done is raid like everyone else. So no problems then ICly! Look forward to it.
You do far more than that, we keep tabs ICly, but me expecting you to be forthcoming with your shenanigans would be an unrealistic request. After all, according to you and Deichtine, we've had nothing but positive interactions!
There's definitely a thing called 'prominent' enemies who have to work harder to prove themselves. But basically, both Lothringen and I screwed over Mag by leaving as VA, and both were able to earn our way back. Nothing is impossible, some people just might have to work harder than others to be accepted in their chosen org should they need to move.
Well what IC actions would these be. So the general populace can be aware of what not to do in case they don't have an org! Because most of what I do I do with other players, so it isn't just me.
The things I don't do with others is basically quest, and influence. So it's going to be an interesting list.
Not being on the snub list of half of an org most certainly helps, regardless of where you're going.
There's a big distinction between being a jerk, and playing a villain, in character and out. I'm exceptionally guilty of this in the past, but small things like being antagonising in yells, shouting meaninglessly, and speaking after you've died in a degrading fashion are usually pretty hard to redeem behaviours.
That would be considered OOC and thus apparently not a problem! Regarding snubbing. I don't think I ahve ever snubbed someone for IC actions but rather OOC behaviours that may result in inappropriate IC actions.
As for all of the latter. I am uncertain as to whom you are speaking but I have seen you on all of your alts do this. So I doubt that is fair enough to hold one to one standard and another not.
OOC should have NO impact on your ability to move to ANY organisation. Sure, if YOU, the PLAYER have made choices that your character has conducted, your CHARACTER will be judged on those choices and, woe, you'll have to roleplay the consequences.
Consequences aren't some mechanical hurdle to be avoided though. They're trials in a story, and in Lusternia, your character is going through their epic Basin legend and trials are one of, if not one of the better highways to roleplay.
There is a reality that OOC is going to have some impact on some people.
Like, if OOCly you've got reason to believe (or just outright know) that someone is only joining your org because they plan to tear it apart, you still have a right to deny entry because you have a responsibility to the players of your org to stop that from happening.
Same thing if you know that letting someone in is going to cause issues for other people in your org because of their experiences with them. Because at that point you're making a choice that might mean those other players need to leave your org and you can't just ignore that.
I mean, if you're going to behave in an atrocious enough fashion to be snubbed, you can't really get around snub cutting off your roleplay opportunities. You can do your best to show everyone else in the org that you're a redeemed figure. I'm a pretty contestable person, as far as vocal involvement in game discussions go, but I can't ever remember being snubbed for in game conversation, except maybe by one or two mags during the late Age of Kellyscension.
If someone is attempting to join your org just to tear it apart, I think the correct thing to do is to issue for metagaming. I don't think it's appropriate roleplay in the scope of Lusternia.
OOC should have NO impact on your ability to move to ANY organisation. Sure, if YOU, the PLAYER have made choices that your character has conducted, your CHARACTER will be judged on those choices and, woe, you'll have to roleplay the consequences.
Consequences aren't some mechanical hurdle to be avoided though. They're trials in a story, and in Lusternia, your character is going through their epic Basin legend and trials are one of, if not one of the better highways to roleplay.
There is a reality that OOC is going to have some impact on some people.
Like, if OOCly you've got reason to believe (or just outright know) that someone is only joining your org because they plan to tear it apart, you still have a right to deny entry because you have a responsibility to the players of your org to stop that from happening.
Same thing if you know that letting someone in is going to cause issues for other people in your org because of their experiences with them. Because at that point you're making a choice that might mean those other players need to leave your org and you can't just ignore that.
So you admit. It will be on an OOC level! Okie dokie then! Now that someone is being honest. We can see where the problem is. Thanks!
Edit: Also I don't know about anyone claiming they will destroy anything. I think it was mentioned by a player or two that they would migrate their Org to another and recreate the beautiful encouraging joyful community feel they have. Which is hardly destroying anything worth keeping if you ask anyone! Who wouldn't want more of that? Our newbies certainly agree. and it is lovely to have such long lasting members. Why wouldn't another organisation want the same?
Unfortunately for you, he isn't Magnagoran, and we have your record. You know your actions, we know them, that's all people need to know. You want the option to join? Maybe do less of the things that get you on the list. You can claim we're being dishonest, but let's be real, not many people are buying this act of yours in the slightest.
If someone is attempting to join your org just to tear it apart, I think the correct thing to do is to issue for metagaming. I don't think it's appropriate roleplay in the scope of Lusternia.
Would be safer for the org, however, to bar them entry, then if they push the issue through the admin then that issue can resolve things.
It's an OOC thing that's informing their IC actions so they're already metagaming and if you're issuing after the fact you have the messy situation that they may have already started doing things, you could have already lost people, etc.
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Edit: I am being serious. If a group of people are going to be slandered constantly, I want to know what person is causing this whole organisation to be victimised. What did that person or people do? Because currently I have four people who have gone from telling me I am fun to play with or great to talk to or whatever, to being absolute dicks towards me without any explanation.
2nd edit: On the other side of that I have a few people who made alts in Glom and have told me they were 'warned' against befriending me for various slanderous reasons. And when they actually come and play with me (usually on an ooc level more than anything) they realise they have been lied to and have been subjected to this constant battering of my person. How can that kind of behaviour be good for the game? And they stay in Glom, and the choose to play less in those orgs. Because they see how different a game play they have when they are in a community that doesn't allow for the constant vilification of a person. Which is what has happened to me personally. A lot of people hate on me they don't even have first hand experience of playing with me. They just go off of what they hear from these so called victims of my 'harassment' of them which is very often me just snubbing them after dealing with their bullying behaviours. This is just my own personal experience. But I know others have been subjected to it. And they quit.
Just talking about the latest - in the other thread, you accused people of not engaging in attempts towards skill balance and simply complaining about Glom and Glom skills all the time without working to fix things. I would like to point you towards what happens when people do try to engage in discussions about skill balance, and Glomdoring's reaction to it, from the latest Night report.
When Glomdoring sees game balance as a war to be won, and skills that are more powerful than the rest of the game's as a prize of war not to be surrendered without retaliation towards the "other side", and that the way to protect their interests is to make snide comments and literally exhaust everyone who wants to talk about your skills until they give up... then, as a player, I don't want to be the one being exhausted until I quit talking. I don't want to engage with those players, not just in terms of skill balancing, but generally in my gaming experience. I have never harassed anybody. But I value my gaming experience too, and I can choose not to engage with those that worsen it.
Complaints or concerns about envoys/balance/etc... are fine to make threads about so long as we can try to keep a certain level of civility. If you have direct issues with other players, you should definitely submit an issue or e-mail support.
Edit: I know some of you were typing posts while I was making this one. Those ones that came in after mine were removed just so everyone else didn't feel temptation to keep trying to get in the last word. Thanks!
Edit edit: Hey now. Don't try and hide continuing that line of discussion in between on-topic bits. That's cheating!
If it all goes back to Celest, Seren and Mag, it will most likely feel like my character no longer has anything to do here.
If I end up not interested to be in the final merged orgs, then I would enjoy to have a somewhat rogue option as Einite Seeker.
Hm.. he is right about that, even to how I am perceived for being a Celestian or a Seren at the time. Like, rp'ly I or Celestians gets this perception that we are just weak/cowards, etc because we associate with Glomdoring. So yes, there is a judgment based on who you associate with.
<a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.lusternia.com/banner/minkahmet.jpg">https://www.lusternia.com/banner/minkahmet.jpg</a>Beverliine is a woman, and is very womanly. This WOMAN before you is so womanly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause she's the womanliest woman that you ever did see. Her womanly shape has driven many men and manlier girls to boughs of nosebleeds. She stands before you in a womanly manerific typical woman-like outfit which is covered in her womanly motto: "I am woman!"
Players have made choices through their RP that make certain other RP choices more or less difficult. If you don't want to deal with the consequences of a more difficult choice then take an easier route.
From what I've seen of discussions so far elsewhere, just being a Glom (for example) isn't going to impact your ability to get into an org. The people who are going to have difficulty getting in are the people who have actively made choices that make the org they want to join unlikely to let them in.
Honestly, some people's choices since Estarra first posted about orgs potentially being deleted have really just cemented their personal place as persona non grata.
OOC should have NO impact on your ability to move to ANY organisation.
Sure, if YOU, the PLAYER have made choices that your character has conducted, your CHARACTER will be judged on those choices and, woe, you'll have to roleplay the consequences.
Consequences aren't some mechanical hurdle to be avoided though. They're trials in a story, and in Lusternia, your character is going through their epic Basin legend and trials are one of, if not one of the better highways to roleplay.
The things I don't do with others is basically quest, and influence. So it's going to be an interesting list.
There's a big distinction between being a jerk, and playing a villain, in character and out. I'm exceptionally guilty of this in the past, but small things like being antagonising in yells, shouting meaninglessly, and speaking after you've died in a degrading fashion are usually pretty hard to redeem behaviours.
As for all of the latter. I am uncertain as to whom you are speaking but I have seen you on all of your alts do this. So I doubt that is fair enough to hold one to one standard and another not.
Like, if OOCly you've got reason to believe (or just outright know) that someone is only joining your org because they plan to tear it apart, you still have a right to deny entry because you have a responsibility to the players of your org to stop that from happening.
Same thing if you know that letting someone in is going to cause issues for other people in your org because of their experiences with them. Because at that point you're making a choice that might mean those other players need to leave your org and you can't just ignore that.
If someone is attempting to join your org just to tear it apart, I think the correct thing to do is to issue for metagaming. I don't think it's appropriate roleplay in the scope of Lusternia.
Edit: Also I don't know about anyone claiming they will destroy anything. I think it was mentioned by a player or two that they would migrate their Org to another and recreate the beautiful encouraging joyful community feel they have. Which is hardly destroying anything worth keeping if you ask anyone! Who wouldn't want more of that? Our newbies certainly agree. and it is lovely to have such long lasting members. Why wouldn't another organisation want the same?
It's an OOC thing that's informing their IC actions so they're already metagaming and if you're issuing after the fact you have the messy situation that they may have already started doing things, you could have already lost people, etc.