Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Once again, please be respectful and productive in your conversations on this thread. I will either start deleting posts or close the thread if this devolves into bitterness and snark.
As I said before, 3 orgs did not exist in Lusternia long enough (4-5 months tops?) to really base any sort of conclusions. For those 4-5 months, the first few months were really players getting their feet on the ground because we had just opened, and the last month revolved around a lot of roleplay regarding the opening of Glomdoring. I have a feeling some people just keep thinking it was a lot longer time period before Glom opened than had actually passed (you can just look at event posts). Personally I don't think that's enough time to extrapolate any sort of conclusion.
As I understand it, Glomdoring wasn't really an active part of conflict when it was first released for some time, and it essentially had to sit out on its own for an extended period. During that time, it was just the original three with the occasional Glom hiccup, politics wise. Perhaps this might be skewing perceptions of the game's past?
That is sort of correct. Glom was the red headed step child for a long time. Celest and Seren were allied strongly. Mag stood on its own and didn't help glomdoring and also refused help from glomdoing. Glom wasn't even allowed to help mag for a good long time. Mag refused any aid.
It was sort of interesting before the introduction of astroglide the only way up to astral was via city nexuses so during wild nodes Celest and Seren went up through the pool of stars. Mag shut down their nexus and refused glom entry to Astral. So glom was locked out of wildnodes and it was seren/celest vs mag.
I remember that. It was around when Narsrim would constantly raid EtherGlom, and my midbie Ninjakari Shaddus died constantly trying to defend you when you refused to fight. Or when I'd spend irl days harvesting earwort for your shops so the Cantors and Spiritsingers wouldn't constantly run roughshod over what few fighters you had. I remember when the Nekotai came out and Shaddus' protégé Janalon helped out so much she had a guild position for irl years, and Shaddus went out of his way to help glom and the Nekotai with defenses, raids on Serenwilde, and more. In fact, he even went out of his way to finance the first ten pairs of nekai for the guild so they'd be able to jump right into the fray.
I remember being killed out of the blue on Faethorn by Glomdoring, and their mailing me 10k gold "for my trouble", and enemying me when I came to complain. I remember any friendly overture I've ever made to Glomdoring screwing me over in the long run, because Glomdoring got what it needed, screw everyone else.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Make it so NuSeren -doesn't- have the Moonhart Mother Tree. The Mother and Master get destroyed, the Great Spirits flee, and the forestals have to come together to grow a NEW tree, blessed by new spirits. Great, now NuSeren is patroned by Serpent and Rock or something, and you have the Mighty Snakestone tree for a new commune to band around. So what if the Rockdancers are just reskinned or slightly altered Moondancers? Sure, it'll still be godawful, but at least everyone starts on the same footing, and not with some seriously second-class citizens trying to throw a coup.
And what about "reopening" orgs later on? I think that's a stupidly optimistic dream, but lets say we cut down to Seren/Celest/Mag, and all the Gloms disperse or retire and reroll, and a few years go by and everything is settled but the game is doing well, so they decide to reopen Glom. So... all of the old Gloms now have to decide to forsake their new home to return? Can they retire their new character to unretire the old Glom who would still be living there and supporting it presumably? How much would the population have to grow again before we could consider bringing back Halli/Gaudi?
If the orgs are merged, fine, you can't go back to your old one. No one can. But then, years down the road, you -can- start a new city, or a new commune, or a new idea all together. A commune that doesn't eschew city trappings and has massive buildings and public transport and aqueducts among the massive treehouses and living plants that serve as elevators! Whatever.
Well, part of the suggestion on merging the forests would involve creating a Faethorn style org, this would mean there's no reason to remove the Moonharts and Ravenwoods because they would all become more deeply connected to Faethorn and Maeve.
Creating new orgs has been mentioned as off the table, but as far as communes go, We already have two that haven't been implemented yet if that was somehow the road to go down.
I'd expect that moving back would probably not be something to worry about any time soon, likely ever. The state of the game is in part a result of having so many orgs/guilds. If a new org was added, it seems more likely to be a new org than an old one.
For me, the benefit of mergers is that it actually breaks away from the need to make new orgs to explore stuff like that? Like, the Faethorn org, if you had guilds dedicated to each of the forests and then faethorn, one day you could potentially release ackleberry and/or jojobo with their own guilds, each forest having their own different style.
By and large, I think people are begrudgingly accepting that we may need to cut down orgs to keep the game going. The details are messy. Lots of them to sort out. But the first two big ones are:
Which orgs are going to be removed? Is 3 or 4 the number of remaining orgs we want?
Opening this forum thread discussion feels as if this was a way to throw it out back into player's awareness, because -not- all of the other options have been exhausted. Those options include not making broad, sweeping decisions concerning the geography of the organisations of this game. If we want to make a sweeping decision, we would likely need the resources to take the option of "well, why don't you make new orgs?" Possible. Unfortunately, we do not have the resources, and instead it feels like throwing this out there is like saying: "Well all of the fixes you want won't really ever happen, but we can fix the population issues, maybe?"
I wholly disagree, 100% that removing some orgs will be the golden solution to all of the problems still waiting on our proverbial table -right now-. There is no silver bullet, no golden ratio that will wipe away all of the fixes and resources needed for this game to continue. The players have told staff that fixing the issues on the table now, would be a big boon. Merging organisations, deleting organisations, and all of the player proposals just seem to me in this thread to be a scramble to try to make everyone happy, as if this proposal is just going to happen of regardless what is being said.
This thread personally feels like a way to stir up anxiety in the player base rather than to give them time to heal and move on from any residing bitterness, and it's all being stirred up again as you can well see. @Orael has made a post about us moving on, and I took this to heart as a message from staff who don't want us to devolve into fighting over the best bones of this game. So I'm wondering why this is being brought up now?
None of this negativity or attacks upon one another will assist the subject on this thread. This discussion feels like it was meant to exhaust us into just accepting a huge proposal that may come to pass. I do not mean to be offensive, but as many people are hurting, or feel that the end is near - I feel like this is exactly what is happening.
But honestly the true big vodoo issue is not about how the population is suffering, it's about the divide in the community, the suspicion, distrust, and deflection into apparent realms of maximum positivity. People want to move on, people are tired. And now to discuss the "end of their org," or "character" is now being presented for discussion? It just feels like adding salt to the wound. On the opposite side, I think this community needs tough love. It needs a stiff dose of medicine as to how it is handled by staff. The hammer needs to come down, and staff need to have the community resolve its issues with totality.
We can address pairing down organisations when a ton of things are fixed, we can address huge decisions like this when guilds are fixed and development on lore is fixed. Guilds are something that need to be done fully and completely, like many other things before thinking of removing organisations. Therein, lies the problem. Once again, we circle back to resources. We hear that resources are the issue, and the human side of our admin and staff rear into view. I feel so sorry for those of them who read this and turn away, not being able to handle the player negativity with something they volunteer for.
So, what's stopping the staff, particularly, @Estarra for not having IRE hire more staff to handle all of these issues? Why hasn't IRE come to the rescue? Are we following a model on what to do when a game starts to fail from the IRE handbook, are we looking at models like Imperian, or Aetolia? Why isn't Matt Mihaly sending us staff who can spare the time to help bolster a potentially eternal asset. If we have issues with marketing, there are likely plenty of options, but we have to have those resources to make it possible where you @Estarra, aren't paying out of pocket. If you're paying out of pocket, I'm genuinely concerned why IRE hasn't stepped in and that's the only option available to you. I really would love an answer to these questions, please.
Many players are aware that it will take an army to fix Lusternia's problems, and create all of the things staff wish to do and accomplish. If we are struggling, why hasn't there been an injection in IRE telling us that "Help is on the way, we got you guys, let's help Estarra!" We as players also want to help, and we have been asking for you to give us feasible means to assist outside of submitting envoy reports. If we really are struggling, and you really are seriously considering your own proposal to remove organisations, please give us those TOOLS and those ABILITIES before every considering this with absolute certainty.
The cool night-time breeze shivers in the arid caress of the streets of the capital city, brushing the earthen taste of dust across your lips.
*
A blessed silence falls upon the city for the moment, most activity confined to the towers and the theatre due to the snowy weather.
*
Pinprick points of light twinkle in the deep black overhead, their brightness full of a cold, hungering malice.
Majority has voiced 3 over 4, and there are methods of making it 1v1v1. Using outdated information such as alliances back then and population isn't going to help in this at all. It has already been stated in this thread, by authority, more divine interaction would be had in this. In case people forgot, the divine IC and the admins OOC have final say, who can and will punish as they see fit. If the goal is to make it 1v1v1, which it should be, then fully expect the story and divine interaction to lead that way. Hold on while I roll a d6 three times dropping repeats to get my random orgs --- alright we have Celest Hallifax and Serenwilde as my lucky rolls. If these aren't your orgs, you would pick one that you think you can work in, and move. That's that, and if an attempt to just take over and alter it to your whims, that's not how the player-driven politics of the game has worked....nor should it. These orgs have a set theme, it may fluctuate on the spectrum of said thing, but it always be that thing until the divine weave a new story for it. People aren't going to storm Hallifax and get away with demanding Order be forgotten, revolution! In the end, we the players go with the story being told and make the best of it, however we decide to enjoy it. This isn't D&D where the players drive the story and game, we can have some input and suggest things, but can be overruled. Even then, lets go back to D&D, tell me a decent DM that lets you absolutely change what an entire city or empire is about, just because you thought it would be fun?
Where did majority voice 3 over 4? This is why I'm wanting Estarra to make a call. A lot of opinions will change based on which orgs and how many. It's hard to gauge player reaction to the full extent without hashing things out as we go along.
Where did majority voice 3 over 4? This is why I'm wanting Estarra to make a call. A lot of opinions will change based on which orgs and how many. It's hard to gauge player reaction to the full extent without hashing things out as we go along.
I do not believe there is a REAL call at this time.
The cool night-time breeze shivers in the arid caress of the streets of the capital city, brushing the earthen taste of dust across your lips.
*
A blessed silence falls upon the city for the moment, most activity confined to the towers and the theatre due to the snowy weather.
*
Pinprick points of light twinkle in the deep black overhead, their brightness full of a cold, hungering malice.
If we do decide to move forward, then we'll need to put a lot of thought and time into it so we can make the best overall decision. Even if the players in general begrudgingly feel that this is the only way forward, that doesn't mean we're going to pull the trigger. I certainly would want to spend some time collecting data on various things that would help us make the best possible choice.
It's not an easy decision to just choose one org over another. There have been some possibilities brought up to consider and there is certainly a lot of hesitation because I agree that we shit the bed with the guild changes. It's something that we need to either be all-in on, or not do at all, and it's not something we can just decide now.
Where did majority voice 3 over 4? This is why I'm wanting Estarra to make a call. A lot of opinions will change based on which orgs and how many. It's hard to gauge player reaction to the full extent without hashing things out as we go along.
I've read every post now at least twice and been keeping count. If you go back and count the 3s vs 4s, you'll see the 3s being spoken of more and supported than 4s. Not saying it doesn't have support, just currently has less.
One way to push 1v1v1 in a three org situation would be to replace ally/enemy lists with passive effects that help org members/hurt outsiders. This would require a bit of tweaking in the arena though. Either to hit anyone not on your team or just keep the enemy/ally functionality.
I'm personally confused as to when the admin said we had a say in how many orgs would be subsumed and which ones. It's really not a democracy.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Thanks Orael. I'm just looking for an admin post every couple of pages of this thread. Will help keep the discussion rooted/guided. Less us squabbling amongst ourselves.
See, this is why I think just axing three orgs and having the surivors move elsewhere is a bad idea. You have the oldbies fighting for the new identity, you have the newbies trying to usurp that identity, you have everyone from Glom having to work of years of prejudice and enemy status to join Seren/Mag... it just ends up being godawful.
If you're going to make the change, commit to it.
Make it so NuSeren -doesn't- have the Moonhart Mother Tree. The Mother and Master get destroyed, the Great Spirits flee, and the forestals have to come together to grow a NEW tree, blessed by new spirits. Great, now NuSeren is patroned by Serpent and Rock or something, and you have the Mighty Snakestone tree for a new commune to band around. So what if the Rockdancers are just reskinned or slightly altered Moondancers? Sure, it'll still be godawful, but at least everyone starts on the same footing, and not with some seriously second-class citizens trying to throw a coup.
And what about "reopening" orgs later on? I think that's a stupidly optimistic dream, but lets say we cut down to Seren/Celest/Mag, and all the Gloms disperse or retire and reroll, and a few years go by and everything is settled but the game is doing well, so they decide to reopen Glom. So... all of the old Gloms now have to decide to forsake their new home to return? Can they retire their new character to unretire the old Glom who would still be living there and supporting it presumably? How much would the population have to grow again before we could consider bringing back Halli/Gaudi?
If the orgs are merged, fine, you can't go back to your old one. No one can. But then, years down the road, you -can- start a new city, or a new commune, or a new idea all together. A commune that doesn't eschew city trappings and has massive buildings and public transport and aqueducts among the massive treehouses and living plants that serve as elevators! Whatever.
This I feel is a very very very good idea and i'd like to continue on it.
The core issue with the forest communes is that one side ''Wins'' over the other. Mags & Celest continue to exist, Gaudi vs Halli end up sealed\deleted.
Serenwilde winning over Glomdoring isn't much better then Glomdoring winning over Serenwilde for Seren players. Whichever side is deleted, the other will either end up second class citizens or enjoy an inner civil wars as dramatically opposed communities are forced to go togheter. Regardless of the size of the group being absorbed by the other. This will lead to unpleasant times no matter who wins.
Glomdoring will stick togheter, I couldn't imagine the Serenwilde players to do any less. This would be unpleasant for either the people receiving them or those entering. Nobody wants to ruin someone else's fun, people just dont want to lose close friends and the hard work they put into it their orgs. I won't even touch people's attitudes in general. Whoever ends up ''winning'' will attempt to turn the other's players into 2nd class citizens, the losing side will - obviously - revolt agaisnt this double standard and attempt a takeover to preserve people they care about.
The Only common ground Serenwilde & Glomdoring have had over time is Faethorn.
Beautiful, amazing & serene Faethorn.
Glomdoring has fought tooth & nail to protect it from the ravages of the cities. Serenwilde has done the same in the past, though their influence has been lessened. I have been able to reach out to Serens through that common ground and get to know them. Even though some have turned into pleasant fights, looking at you @Feyr. The nature communes are founded on the precepts of love of the fae of faethorn and pushing forth their own brand of Nature.
Wilde for Serenwilde Wyrden for Glomdoring
Serenwilde, just as much as Glomdoring, has an agenda to destroy and complete erase the cities from the basin of life. I actually recall Charune even saying so on the public boards when asked directly by a player.
I believe it went something like this:
''Take your cities along with your taint & light and dont let the door hit you on the way out. The communes can watch over Nature just fine''
SO! Building on the previous suggestion, here is one of mine.
Celest vs Magnagora - That's fine, Good vs Evil, Light vs Taint.
Destroy Serenwilde & Glomdoring both - All the way.
Dont lock them away, dont make them something that might come back. Irredemably absolutly, completly destroy them beyond recognition. If the population rises and you wish to try something similar, create a new direction.
Skillsets? Remove them entirely. Both communes.
Moon & Night? Crow & hart?
Corrupted, tainted, dead or recovering but powerless. Avatars are gone, corrupted or recovering in Faethorn.
Divines? Evolve or Removed (Filters out inactive Divines)
I absolutly love my Divines, but I do realise this is something that needs to happen just like the condensing of the player base from a logistic point of view. Anybody that knows me in lusternia knows how much of a concession saying this is for me, I absolutly my Divine Order and work hard at it.
Brand new commune: === Faethorn, The Heart of Nature ===
- Build the commune in Faethorn - Nexus is the Tree of Trees - Great Spirit is Queen Maeve - City leaders? Perriwinkle & Butter ( They had an absolutly lovely wedding) - Who becomes a part of it? People who genuinly care for Nature. - Travel to it is simplified with a unique teleportation skill (or just let TP NEXUS handle it) - Small island on prime between Spectral & Inner for newbies to access from ( Like a 1 or 5 room deal)
Goals & Story
Serenwilde & Glomdoring have become a No-Man's land due to a cataclysm unleashed by the cities. This has in turned corrupted EtherSeren & EtherGlom hurting the Great Spirits that watch over it permanently. Seren fae & Glom Fae are now corrupted and lost their link to faethorn due to the arrogance of the cities. The survivors from the communes have banded togheter to save Nature from annihilation by the arrogance of the cities. Ethereal needs to be tended to and the many types of fae:
Need to be saved and taken to faethorn to preserve Queen Maeve, Nature & heal the Great Spirits damaged by the arrogance of the cities. Commune members spread the sylvan forest on prime to repair Nature and destroy the cities that ruined the world for a 2nd time.
Conflict Mechanics:
Cities can raid corrupted EtherGlom & EtherSeren to kidnap fae to empower their supernals\consume them to heal their Light or Taint. Portals to ethereal remain where the Moonhart & Ravenwood once stood.
What happened
Project Cosmic hope 2.0? It's not like it's impossible for it to occur again. It would also create a cataclysm needed for such a re-working as suggested too. Plus you would - for sure - make everyone in the communes hate Celest & Magnagora...Forever . Breaking the alliances. IC relations could never be mended.
I feel this might reach out to a lot that both communes Serenwilde & Glomdoring love to meet in a neutral ground. Plus being a new commune ( Yes I know, No new communes) that re-uses currently in game elements would lessen the work load from the Staffs to make it happen.
A neutral ground and fresh start for both forests would take out the ''Offending'' skillsets. While solving the issue of a ''winning'' side.
I will happily re-post this in a seperate thread to pole it if people love the idea.
Please share your thoughts on this proposal everyone,
Would love to hear if in your experience this would be feasable to re-use in game content like this and reach neutrality between the forests.
If new orgs is an option at all, then yes, that's ideal. I know Estarra said no way, too much work, but that was the same thing said about shutting down orgs not that long ago. Sooooo
As stated prior, if building the areas is the hard part, there are people willing to be mortal builders, but the true hard part of it is going back into everything and adding said new org to everything as a reference point, skillsets, flavor lines, and probably some other things I'm missing. It's not impossible, but it will take a very long time to pull this off in an acceptable fashion, to the players and the admin's satisfaction. I like Afollia's idea a bit, kind of blends in a lot of things already discussed here (merging communes and some kind of doomsday event as the topics already discussed) to try and put something forward. Things would definitely need to be tweaked, as I don't think setting up 'home' in Faethorn is wise. Vote weight and such is calculated by time on Prime in a formula, as well as Faethorn being the literal hub of the Elemental planes. Not to mention this new commune idea could essentially just put guards on the archways and kill anybody trying to go to faethorn, and with only 3 real entry methods (2 Elemental archways and Tolborolla) it could easily station enough guards at each to instantly kill anybody to step through, giving an absolutely perfect defense.
Suggestion would be to just let the new commune use the effective Seren and Glom space, all the fluff rooms included, as their Prime plane. Let the old nexii act as a gateway to the Tree of Trees to be the ethereal connection. Have an emote action at the Tree of Trees to go to your nexus world, all that would be left is to find a reasonable way to put the new essence either in Faethorn itself or a publicly accessible archway. The Well could be the conversion method, and just let grey essence be the org essence, requires far less coding that way since it already does this, or at least did the in the past.
So closing down the orgs/merging them purely in a political sense? Ie. One CT, one helpfile, one ruling council for the two communes?
Yes absolutly. This would take down any kind of impression of a ''winning'' side and we'd just merge communes and put the focus on Nature vs Cities.
Priority on faethorn & the fae, something we've always been able to reach out to each other with, and fighting agaisnt the corruption of the city dwellers. While healing the great spirits.
Edit:
The idea to close down both forests as actual communes is also to stop the feeling of Wilde winning over Wyrden and vice versa. While providing opportunity to re-use those grounds for quests\events & etc.
I could absolutly see that happening witouth actually ''Re-creating'' Celest & Magnagora. Kind of like when the groups merge. The in game code & structure stays the same, but the groups togheter evolve into something more?
Basically just add
Celest - City of freedom & light Managora - City of Conquest & order Faethorn - The heart of Nature
The end.
Faethorn would take a bit more work, but you could just change the names & rewrite the story a bit on celest & magnagora to make it work. This feels like it would be a lovely ''Rebirth''.
It's less make a brand new city. Then Re-brand a city to a new theme that represents the people that joined in. Whipe Enemy lists clean and press Reboot.
Indeed, this very idea was discussed on the first page of this thread, almost identical even. Is this the way we want to go?
Would you feel any other kind of idea stands a chance of success while not alienating a part of the population?
The scenario I feel we need to stay away from is ''This side Won''.
Re-Branding, not recreating, Magnagora & Celest would prevent that.
Releasing Faethorn or Ackleberry. So long as the focus is restoring fae to faethorn and not '' Mother Night or Mother Moon'' would most likely satisfy the forest communes on both ends. You can't have a case where one forest lives and the other dies witouth having a - lot - of angry people.
I feel the ''Nuke em both'' scenario, while not pleasant, does put the focus back on Nature instead of Wyrden vs Wilde and people that really care about the fae will be able to do so.
Yes, new commune is a lot of work. But I can't imagine mortals wouldn't love to help with such a project on both ends of the spectrum.
I suggested Faethorn because Faethorn feels perfect from an RP standpoint as a neutral ground for both communes. I think your right in Re-working the map layout to prevent guard abuse for elemental exits. Though I still feel faethorn is the answer.
Options that cross my mind:
A path that circles back and forth between ether seren & ether wild, or Maeve cutting out ether Seren & ether Wilde like she did with Wydyr to save the fae?
A prime version, linked directly to Ethereal Faethorn, risen up as a ''Last bastion of Nature vs the Apocalyspe'' kind of thing?.
Elemental exits would be linked to Ex-Seren & Ex-Glom instead of directly into faethorn.
PS: This also kills any previous alliances and gives the new forest a reason to hate the cities for newer players
Edit: While it crosses my mind. You could spawn ''faethorn prime'' in the center between Magnagora & Celest remakes, kind of like. We're going to stop you from destroying the world sort of thing.
Huh? Oh I'm not saying anything about other options. I have Zero opinion on anything other then faethorn.
Please do add whichever you'd like on top.
Free re-roll sounds great!
Edit: Just saw @Synl post. I'm really just adressing faethorn and the whole Wilde vs Wyrden debate. I didn't even know I was repeating an already spoken idea. I absolutly would support free re-rolls and whichever else might come out of it for such a massive game breaking event.
Why would you not get a free reroll? That is part of this whole package...they've stated this multiple times now as well.
The original post said it's a possibility. So there's that, not actually set. But also if we aren't actually revamping the orgs, so much as merging them, I figured there'd be no need for character rewrites.
Why would you not get a free reroll? That is part of this whole package...they've stated this multiple times now as well.
The original post said it's a possibility. So there's that, not actually set. But also if we aren't actually revamping the orgs, so much as merging them, I figured there'd be no need for character rewrites.
Why not?
Even if Orgs are Re-Branded & Glom + Seren deleted with Faethorn prime created people will still end up being forced to leave places they loved and cared for deeply, or based their entire RP off of.
So I could totally see something like this being important as a:
'' Thank you for playing with us so long, we understand this is a massive change for logistic reasons. Here's what we can do for you to help make the transition as simple as possible for a character you've worked so hard on and spent money''.
Not everyone's RP can be saved, but this way they could reach out to those that can't save their RP and allow them a fresh start.
It feels like a wonderful way to compliment a Reboot and taking it a step further for Customer Care & Support.
Edit: This is also important for people who are tired of the same old story and wish to try something different witouth losing everything.
I could absolutly see that happening witouth actually ''Re-creating'' Celest & Magnagora. Kind of like when the groups merge. The in game code & structure stays the same, but the groups togheter evolve into something more?
Basically just add
Celest - City of freedom & light Managora - City of Conquest & order Faethorn - The heart of Nature
The end.
Faethorn would take a bit more work, but you could just change the names & rewrite the story a bit on celest & magnagora to make it work. This feels like it would be a lovely ''Rebirth''.
It's less make a brand new city. Then Re-brand a city to a new theme that represents the people that joined in. Whipe Enemy lists clean and press Reboot.
To put this out there this reads as pretty dismissive of Hallifax and Gaudiguch, there's a simple reality that you could change the epithet of the org but if you're still calling Celest, it's still Celest not a merger of the two orgs.
Comments
I remember being killed out of the blue on Faethorn by Glomdoring, and their mailing me 10k gold "for my trouble", and enemying me when I came to complain. I remember any friendly overture I've ever made to Glomdoring screwing me over in the long run, because Glomdoring got what it needed, screw everyone else.
Creating new orgs has been mentioned as off the table, but as far as communes go, We already have two that haven't been implemented yet if that was somehow the road to go down.
I'd expect that moving back would probably not be something to worry about any time soon, likely ever. The state of the game is in part a result of having so many orgs/guilds. If a new org was added, it seems more likely to be a new org than an old one.
For me, the benefit of mergers is that it actually breaks away from the need to make new orgs to explore stuff like that? Like, the Faethorn org, if you had guilds dedicated to each of the forests and then faethorn, one day you could potentially release ackleberry and/or jojobo with their own guilds, each forest having their own different style.
Which orgs are going to be removed?
Is 3 or 4 the number of remaining orgs we want?
@Estarra @Orael
theatre due to the snowy weather.
hungering malice.
theatre due to the snowy weather.
hungering malice.
If we do decide to move forward, then we'll need to put a lot of thought and time into it so we can make the best overall decision. Even if the players in general begrudgingly feel that this is the only way forward, that doesn't mean we're going to pull the trigger. I certainly would want to spend some time collecting data on various things that would help us make the best possible choice.
It's not an easy decision to just choose one org over another. There have been some possibilities brought up to consider and there is certainly a lot of hesitation because I agree that we shit the bed with the guild changes. It's something that we need to either be all-in on, or not do at all, and it's not something we can just decide now.
This I feel is a very very very good idea and i'd like to continue on it.
The core issue with the forest communes is that one side ''Wins'' over the other.
Mags & Celest continue to exist, Gaudi vs Halli end up sealed\deleted.
Serenwilde winning over Glomdoring isn't much better then Glomdoring winning over Serenwilde for Seren players. Whichever side is deleted, the other will either end up second class citizens or enjoy an inner civil wars as dramatically opposed communities are forced to go togheter. Regardless of the size of the group being absorbed by the other. This will lead to unpleasant times no matter who wins.
Glomdoring will stick togheter, I couldn't imagine the Serenwilde players to do any less. This would be unpleasant for either the people receiving them or those entering. Nobody wants to ruin someone else's fun, people just dont want to lose close friends and the hard work they put into it their orgs. I won't even touch people's attitudes in general. Whoever ends up ''winning'' will attempt to turn the other's players into 2nd class citizens, the losing side will - obviously - revolt agaisnt this double standard and attempt a takeover to preserve people they care about.
The Only common ground Serenwilde & Glomdoring have had over time is Faethorn.
Beautiful, amazing & serene Faethorn.
Glomdoring has fought tooth & nail to protect it from the ravages of the cities.
Serenwilde has done the same in the past, though their influence has been lessened. I have been able to reach out to Serens through that common ground and get to know them. Even though some have turned into pleasant fights, looking at you @Feyr. The nature communes are founded on the precepts of love of the fae of faethorn and pushing forth their own brand of Nature.
Wilde for Serenwilde
Wyrden for Glomdoring
Serenwilde, just as much as Glomdoring, has an agenda to destroy and complete erase the cities from the basin of life. I actually recall Charune even saying so on the public boards when asked directly by a player.
I believe it went something like this:
''Take your cities along with your taint & light and dont let the door hit you on the way out. The communes can watch over Nature just fine''
SO! Building on the previous suggestion, here is one of mine.
Celest vs Magnagora - That's fine, Good vs Evil, Light vs Taint.
Destroy Serenwilde & Glomdoring both - All the way.
Dont lock them away, dont make them something that might come back. Irredemably absolutly, completly destroy them beyond recognition. If the population rises and you wish to try something similar, create a new direction.
Skillsets? Remove them entirely. Both communes.
Moon & Night? Crow & hart?
Corrupted, tainted, dead or recovering but powerless.
Avatars are gone, corrupted or recovering in Faethorn.
Divines? Evolve or Removed (Filters out inactive Divines)
I absolutly love my Divines, but I do realise this is something that needs to happen just like the condensing of the player base from a logistic point of view. Anybody that knows me in lusternia knows how much of a concession saying this is for me, I absolutly
Brand new commune: === Faethorn, The Heart of Nature ===
- Build the commune in Faethorn
- Nexus is the Tree of Trees
- Great Spirit is Queen Maeve
- City leaders? Perriwinkle & Butter ( They had an absolutly lovely wedding)
- Who becomes a part of it? People who genuinly care for Nature.
- Travel to it is simplified with a unique teleportation skill (or just let TP NEXUS handle it)
- Small island on prime between Spectral & Inner for newbies to access from ( Like a 1 or 5 room deal)
Goals & Story
Serenwilde & Glomdoring have become a No-Man's land due to a cataclysm unleashed by the cities. This has in turned corrupted EtherSeren & EtherGlom hurting the Great Spirits that watch over it permanently. Seren fae & Glom Fae are now corrupted and lost their link to faethorn due to the arrogance of the cities. The survivors from the communes have banded togheter to save Nature from annihilation by the arrogance of the cities. Ethereal needs to be tended to and the many types of fae:
-barghests
-maidens
-redcaps
-mothers
-Slaughs
-Crones
Need to be saved and taken to faethorn to preserve Queen Maeve, Nature & heal the Great Spirits damaged by the arrogance of the cities. Commune members spread the sylvan forest on prime to repair Nature and destroy the cities that ruined the world for a 2nd time.
Conflict Mechanics:
Cities can raid corrupted EtherGlom & EtherSeren to kidnap fae to empower their supernals\consume them to heal their Light or Taint. Portals to ethereal remain where the Moonhart & Ravenwood once stood.
What happened
Project Cosmic hope 2.0? It's not like it's impossible for it to occur again. It would also create a cataclysm needed for such a re-working as suggested too. Plus you would - for sure - make everyone in the communes hate Celest & Magnagora...Forever
==============================================================
I feel this might reach out to a lot that both communes Serenwilde & Glomdoring love to meet in a neutral ground. Plus being a new commune ( Yes I know, No new communes) that re-uses currently in game elements would lessen the work load from the Staffs to make it happen.
A neutral ground and fresh start for both forests would take out the ''Offending'' skillsets. While solving the issue of a ''winning'' side.
I will happily re-post this in a seperate thread to pole it if people love the idea.
Please share your thoughts on this proposal everyone,
Would love to hear if in your experience this would be feasable to re-use in game content like this and reach neutrality between the forests.
@Estarra
-Afollia
Edit: Probably should've made my own thread, but this felt relevant as a quick draft.
Suggestion would be to just let the new commune use the effective Seren and Glom space, all the fluff rooms included, as their Prime plane. Let the old nexii act as a gateway to the Tree of Trees to be the ethereal connection. Have an emote action at the Tree of Trees to go to your nexus world, all that would be left is to find a reasonable way to put the new essence either in Faethorn itself or a publicly accessible archway. The Well could be the conversion method, and just let grey essence be the org essence, requires far less coding that way since it already does this, or at least did the in the past.
Priority on faethorn & the fae, something we've always been able to reach out to each other with, and fighting agaisnt the corruption of the city dwellers. While healing the great spirits.
Edit:
The idea to close down both forests as actual communes is also to stop the feeling of Wilde winning over Wyrden and vice versa. While providing opportunity to re-use those grounds for quests\events & etc.
I could absolutly see that happening witouth actually ''Re-creating'' Celest & Magnagora. Kind of like when the groups merge. The in game code & structure stays the same, but the groups togheter evolve into something more?
Basically just add
Celest - City of freedom & light
Managora - City of Conquest & order
Faethorn - The heart of Nature
The end.
Faethorn would take a bit more work, but you could just change the names & rewrite the story a bit on celest & magnagora to make it work. This feels like it would be a lovely ''Rebirth''.
It's less make a brand new city. Then Re-brand a city to a new theme that represents the people that joined in. Whipe Enemy lists clean and press Reboot.
The scenario I feel we need to stay away from is ''This side Won''.
Re-Branding, not recreating, Magnagora & Celest would prevent that.
Releasing Faethorn or Ackleberry. So long as the focus is restoring fae to faethorn and not '' Mother Night or Mother Moon'' would most likely satisfy the forest communes on both ends. You can't have a case where one forest lives and the other dies witouth having a - lot - of angry people.
I feel the ''Nuke em both'' scenario, while not pleasant, does put the focus back on Nature instead of Wyrden vs Wilde and people that really care about the fae will be able to do so.
Yes, new commune is a lot of work. But I can't imagine mortals wouldn't love to help with such a project on both ends of the spectrum.
I suggested Faethorn because Faethorn feels perfect from an RP standpoint as a neutral ground for both communes. I think your right in Re-working the map layout to prevent guard abuse for elemental exits. Though I still feel faethorn is the answer.
Options that cross my mind:
A path that circles back and forth between ether seren & ether wild, or Maeve cutting out ether Seren & ether Wilde like she did with Wydyr to save the fae?
A prime version, linked directly to Ethereal Faethorn, risen up as a ''Last bastion of Nature vs the Apocalyspe'' kind of thing?.
Elemental exits would be linked to Ex-Seren & Ex-Glom instead of directly into faethorn.
PS: This also kills any previous alliances and gives the new forest a reason to hate the cities for newer players
Edit: While it crosses my mind. You could spawn ''faethorn prime'' in the center between Magnagora & Celest remakes, kind of like. We're going to stop you from destroying the world sort of thing.
Please do add whichever you'd like on top.
Free re-roll sounds great!
Edit: Just saw @Synl post. I'm really just adressing faethorn and the whole Wilde vs Wyrden debate. I didn't even know I was repeating an already spoken idea. I absolutly would support free re-rolls and whichever else might come out of it for such a massive game breaking event.
Even if Orgs are Re-Branded & Glom + Seren deleted with Faethorn prime created people will still end up being forced to leave places they loved and cared for deeply, or based their entire RP off of.
So I could totally see something like this being important as a:
'' Thank you for playing with us so long, we understand this is a massive change for logistic reasons. Here's what we can do for you to help make the transition as simple as possible for a character you've worked so hard on and spent money''.
Not everyone's RP can be saved, but this way they could reach out to those that can't save their RP and allow them a fresh start.
It feels like a wonderful way to compliment a Reboot and taking it a step further for Customer Care & Support.
Edit: This is also important for people who are tired of the same old story and wish to try something different witouth losing everything.