I like things that speed up questing: - 1hr buff to influencing outside buff system like wand batons - Respawn all mobs in an area 1/month (I think someone else said this already) - Extra criticals
We have a lot of suggestions for Power 5 of Nature, to compile and make it easier to discuss:
Nurturing Nature - Cause the area you are in to regenrate any missing plants to five, apply the effects of Nature Growth and the watering can. Activate for 10 archpower.
Nurturing Nature 2.0 - All active commodity generation is doubled from commodity quests, passive. Upon activation of this project, all tithes from villages and aether bubbles are also doubled (commodities and conquest power).Activate for 10 archpower for a duration of 24 hours and requires 10 archpower afterwards to upkeep before this power goes dormant.
Natureborne - Force every room in the local area to become a natural version of itself. Activate for 10 archpower for the effect to last for 1 hour.
Faenation, 10p to activate, every member of an org receives a fae follower (different look depending on org), can only have one. Fae will cure/heal occasionally its member
"Nurturing Nature" has been noted as not appealing even by people it would, presumably, be the most useful for.
"Nurturing Nature 2.0" this seems directly counter to other touches on the economy given the doubling of tithes. Trade ministers would be able to give more info, but it seems as the org-wide effect would likely make it more easy for people to just go to their local comm shop which in turn hampers the general usefulness of the personal effect if people have lessened need to actually do the comm quests.
"Natureborne" given the mentions that the melder overhaul could significantly change the usability and value of this power. Having another think over what I've seen, it's also plausible terraining as a concept might even go away.
"Faenation" with fae as part of the concept is just potentially headache inducing, elementals are already a thing that every org has, nature giving elementals that are reflective of the merger of the planes connected to an org seems far less problematic.
I think you misunderstood a part of it; Natureborne doesn't change the terrain. It just makes things that require "natural terrain" to activate become active in that area. It is thus completely independent of any terrain-changing-modifications.
Ah weird, it reads to me more like Kiakoda's drums.
The question I'd have then is how useful is that to the cities? And what are the inclusions and exclusions Like, sure Elfen and Faeling are obvious inclusions.
But ForgePath seems like it wouldn't (and shouldn't) unless the paths decay when the effect ends, and if the power does make it usable what are the implications of that?
edit: If you link it to orgs you could maybe make something like an aura that makes rooms you're in count as your orgs terrain.
It'd trigger all of the relevant racial/guild/construct/etc bonuses linked to being in that terrain, and you just make exclusions along the line of you can't meld a room based on the aura. If there's a concern about everyone having all of their stuff active you could maybe make it so different aura's cancel each other out while you're in the same room.
Ah weird, it reads to me more like Kiakoda's drums.
The question I'd have then is how useful is that to the cities? And what are the inclusions and exclusions Like, sure Elfen and Faeling are obvious inclusions.
But ForgePath seems like it wouldn't (and shouldn't) unless the paths decay when the effect ends, and if the power does make it usable what are the implications of that?
Well, the idea was for Power 4 to be something which functions with the same restriction as Elfen/Faeling (active only in natural terrains). Then Power 5 is used to make it active in some place where it wouldn't normally be. As such it would be useful for everyone. Since it doesn't change terrain type it doesn't impact melders or the actual combat things, just enables effects that wouldn't have been active based on the normal terrain settings. I'd anticipate it being a setting like Hartstone/Blacktalon melds are now, insofar as they make the rooms count as "natural" for the sake of passive powers but things that go off of the underlying base terrain (like path forging) are unaffected.
Ah weird, it reads to me more like Kiakoda's drums.
The question I'd have then is how useful is that to the cities? And what are the inclusions and exclusions Like, sure Elfen and Faeling are obvious inclusions.
But ForgePath seems like it wouldn't (and shouldn't) unless the paths decay when the effect ends, and if the power does make it usable what are the implications of that?
Well, the idea was for Power 4 to be something which functions with the same restriction as Elfen/Faeling (active only in natural terrains). Then Power 5 is used to make it active in some place where it wouldn't normally be. As such it would be useful for everyone. Since it doesn't change terrain type it doesn't impact melders or the actual combat things, just enables effects that wouldn't have been active based on the normal terrain settings. I'd anticipate it being a setting like Hartstone/Blacktalon melds are now, insofar as they make the rooms count as "natural" for the sake of passive powers but things that go off of the underlying base terrain (like path forging) are unaffected.
Added a bit more, I think I just like the idea of it tuning towards orgs a bit more than just "natural"?
If the level 4 was changed to that I would also lean more towards making it active in your orgs terrain type.
Power 2: X/13 village influence buff, passive, x = floor(CR/2) minimum 1
Power 3: Eating herbs heals h/m/e (like sparkleberries), 5 archpower per month
Power 4: Grant a 1/8 universal damage buff and resistance, as well as a 1/8
health, mana, and ego regeneration while in a room that is natural
Power 5: Naturegift, 10p to activate, every member of an org receives an entity
follower (different look depending on org), can only have one. Entity will
cure/heal occasionally its member
Knowledge Research Project (future anomaly type)
Power 1: Less mana cost in time rifts
Power 2: 3/13 mana generation, passive, no archpower needed
Power 3: Elemental/Ethereal essence value is doubled, 5 archpower/month
Power 4: 25% exp/essence buff for 3 hours, 5 archpower/month, can turn on and off at will (so don't have to be 3 hour stretch but can break it up)
Power 5: Keen Knowledge - Gain the effects of aetherial quickening as well as the ability to travel to any permanent milestone and village obelisk within the basin. Activate for 10 archpower, duration lasts until logout. Combines ring of aetheric quickening and compass of true direction to offer utility to those that seek it, without outright altering how PK functions.
Death Research Project (desolate anomaly type)
Power 1: Universal damage buff in time rifts, 10/10
Power 2: Universal damage buff, 3/10, passive, no archpower needed
Power 3: Faster insanity recovery, stacks with artifacts, 5 archpower/month
Power 4: 5% Crit boost for 1 hour, 5 archpower/month, can turn on and off at will (so don't have to be 3 hour stretch but can break it up)
Power 5: Defy Death -Upon the next time you would be slain, you are instead placed within stasis for five seconds. You cannot take any action, nor can you be effected by aggressive actions. During this time you can choose to teleport to the Portal of Fate or be revived at 50% vitals and no defenses. Activate for 10 archpower, defense until death, cooldown of a game month when the effect triggers. Grants the user an arguably better version of vitae so that they can choose to use that time to stay or get out of dodge. Cooldown is meant to be long so that this doesn't just become a way to grief raiding. The half vitals enforces the choice of standing your ground with the possibility of it being quickly used against you.
Beauty Research Project (immaculate anonaly type)
Power 1: Faster anomaly harvesting in time rifts, 25%
Power 2: Increased valuation when creating crafted items, passive, no archpower needed,
Power 3: Chance to double the yield of a Poisons, Alchemy, Bookbinding, Enchantment craft, 25% 5 archpower/month
Power 4: Grant the ability to toggle "failures" (ie Jewelers always produce
salt/sulphur, Alchemist sugar, Forging/Cooking mercury etc). 10
archpower for 1 hour.
Power 5: Beauteous Bounty - Gain the effects of Endowment of the Arts, selecting a trade skill you have access to. This trade is not apart of skillflexing and requires this power to change or enable the tradeskill. Activate for 10 archpower for a duration of 24 hours and requires 10 archpower afterwards to upkeep before this power goes dormant. Changing the tradeskill costs 5 archpower and does not extend the duration of the activation.
These are what I'm thinking to finalize based on this brainstorming. I'm going to have Orael look it over. Still not too late to comment but we need to finalize the design ASAP.
Power 3: Eating herbs heals h/m/e (like sparkleberries), 5 archpower per month
Literally herbs, or does this mean wafer? On sparkleberry balance?
This definitely needs to be clarified, as well as how it stacks with the Nature Domoth Crown power (which already applies the sparkleberry effect to an herb, but consumes sparkleberry balance). Or does it not stack at all?
The entire Beauty tree seems bad to me. All of those things will help to further screw up the economy, and would mean spending org resources on benefits that are purely personal to the individual members. The other power trees help each member in org conflict. The Beauty capstone only works for people who have more than one trade to begin with, and the people who will benefit the most from it (those with 3-4 trades who will benefit from being able to switch frequently) are also the people most likely to already have the tools to replicate its effects.
The entire Beauty tree seems bad to me. All of those things will help to further screw up the economy, and would mean spending org resources on benefits that are purely personal to the individual members. The other power trees help each member in org conflict. The Beauty capstone only works for people who have more than one trade to begin with, and the people who will benefit the most from it (those with 3-4 trades who will benefit from being able to switch frequently) are also the people most likely to already have the tools to replicate its effects.
I was actually editing the following into my post already, then saw you had replied before I sent it:
Edit: My current thoughts would be "ignore Beauty." The other
stuff seems to help people more in general. Second trade will help
those who have learned a second trade already and want to have it
active, but having thought about that a bit more... how many of the
general active population has invested the lessons in multiple
tradeskills? Is this something that is going to appeal to a relatively
small subset of players?
So I think we're pretty much exactly on the same page there. Everything else seems to have stuff that is useful for the majority of the population.
Personally, I know there are a lot of active players that have multiple tradeskills that are sitting inactive. Not sure how the economy is going to get screwed over, because people will be able to get the materials they want at a cost? Here I thought people would be happy to gather crafting items! Especially the cooks, considering their dishes are kind of screwed thanks to goop devouring every lick of salt available.
Anyway, we've had it open to the the public for suggestions since late February, with this theme since the end of March. We've had a week to come up with ideas so far, some good, some rejected, but very few voices offering ideas. This thread alone has more arguing about proposed ideas than submissions. So since we're on crunch time, do you have any suggestions for Beauty to change it so that it sits better with you? Sadly the Agree button disappeared, because people were hitting that on posts, so the support for certain ideas are just gone without the posts. I eagerly await the suggestions to fix up Beauty so that we can get this implemented in and worry about real issues.
I really don't have a ton of ideas for Beauty, unless you just want to go all-in on the influence skillset side of things (+influencing damage, -damage taken back from the NPCs, passive curing of debate afflictions, passive delivery of debate afflictions when you do a regular debate). Higher critical influence chance? It all still seems to be pretty niche. May just be that we go with it as-is, and if people end up not picking it universally, we can try to workshop more later?
I think the issue boils down to it being Beauty. Does it have to be Beauty? Maybe it's just too late to change that now.
I've laid out a pretty robust (I think) position that Timequakes writ large are a bad project for Lusternia right now in a fundamental sense, and that the implementation of the underlying mechanics IS a "real issue". Therefore no, I don't have any suggestions for these powers, the best outcome possible for the trees is that they not have any impact at all. Most of these will provide further snowballing (heh) for orgs who are already winning PvP to enhance their ability to win.
I'm just pointing out that there is no reason for someone to pick that tree over other trees, it's the odd one out in both benefits and design. One of the problems with the economy is the increased self-sufficiency, very low demand, and flooded supply. There's little incentive to become a tailor because of how many tailors are around, with no desire to make profit on tailoring. Further allowing people to undercut costs by doubling yields and more importantly to become further self-sufficient makes this worse - even fewer reasons to engage with other players on trade matters.
Agree with Beauty being a difficult choice, it tends towards really cosmetic trade effects, like the domoth powers. War, Harmony, and Life all seem like reasonable choices to me too.
I've also stated an equal disliking of the system as a whole and honestly wish we didn't have yet another PK event coming into the game. But I figured if it's going to happen anyway, I might as well try to make the best of it. As for these powers snowballing already winning orgs, they really don't need these powers because there is no opposition what-so-ever. Just look at wildnodes today, LITERALLY camped where people could come onto Astral to just keep them off entirely. When you can state you were literally kept from even participating the tiniest bit, you know that there are loads more problems that just honestly aren't being addressed.
An additional ego attack for each ego battle type could be interesting, or something generic that automatically adapts to an ego battle you're already engaged in. (i.e if you've already started begging it'll function as a charity ego attack.)
It'd help lowbies in influencing because they'd be able to get two attacks when they'd otherwise have one, people at max would have four to cycle through which should be beneficial. Include village as a type and helps there too, especially if it gave you a set of attacks tied to the specific types as it'd mean rank 1's would be able to influence villages.
To build on that, what about instead of adding a fourth ego attack that is bound to the research project, reduce the target's resistance to ego attacks? Helps the lowbies more that only have lets say Begging and Supplication, possibly reducing resistance by 50%? Percentage can scale, just tossing the idea first to see if we have a starting point.
Agree with Beauty being a difficult choice, it tends towards really cosmetic trade effects, like the domoth powers. War, Harmony, and Life all seem like reasonable choices to me too.
Harmony seems pretty good, actually. It could steal the experience buff from Knowledge. Then have something that can pacify NPCs (not player loyal ones though, due to the class-ents thing), keep the faster harvesting, an influencing speed and/or damage buff, and... I don't know. Something that lets you link to Astral nodes without draining any power from them? That one right there would make it very tempting for orgs. "You're resonating with the node and feeding the power back into it as you draw it out."
To build on that, what about instead of adding a fourth ego attack that is bound to the research project, reduce the target's resistance to ego attacks? Helps the lowbies more that only have lets say Begging and Supplication, possibly reducing resistance by 50%? Percentage can scale, just tossing the idea first to see if we have a starting point.
Making them not go stubborn so fast would be very nice for lowbies.
Agree with Beauty being a difficult choice, it tends towards really cosmetic trade effects, like the domoth powers. War, Harmony, and Life all seem like reasonable choices to me too.
Harmony seems pretty good, actually. It could steal the experience buff from Knowledge. Then have something that can pacify NPCs (not player loyal ones though, due to the class-ents thing), keep the faster harvesting, an influencing speed and/or damage buff, and... I don't know. Something that lets you link to Astral nodes without draining any power from them? That one right there would make it very tempting for orgs. "You're resonating with the node and feeding the power back into it as you draw it out."
After all, in the immaculate timeline Astral isn't touched by the Soulless..
Not draining astral nodes seems like a power that only the leader of an astral bash would actually use, unlike the others where everyone that wants the benefit has to use them in turn draining archpower out of their reserves.
If the main benefit is not draining nodes and negatively impacting later hunting potential, an alliance could even just co-ordinate to have one org build the project and as long as they're always there for hunts, the other two orgs still derive that same benefit.
To build on that, what about instead of adding a fourth ego attack that is bound to the research project, reduce the target's resistance to ego attacks? Helps the lowbies more that only have lets say Begging and Supplication, possibly reducing resistance by 50%? Percentage can scale, just tossing the idea first to see if we have a starting point.
An additional ego attack achieves the same effect as reducing by 50% as I understand the mechanics, if you include the village influence part it also means newbies can help there too.
I wouldn't really care to wait for a Celestian or a Gaudy to show up to lead a hunt if I decide I want to. Having it on demand seems a better thing. Also, I would envision it being an orgwide power (like the Nature level 5), with a similar cost for the orgwide nature of the effect.
I think at most we have had triple-linking going on (with a three person group in the Orrery days), but everyone who is in the group benefits from nodes not dying, so it being orgwide makes sense to me.
I wouldn't really care to wait for a Celestian or a Gaudy to show up to lead a hunt if I decide I want to. Having it on demand seems a better thing. Also, I would envision it being an orgwide power (like the Nature level 5), with a similar cost for the orgwide nature of the effect.
I think at most we have had triple-linking going on (with a three person group in the Orrery days), but everyone who is in the group benefits from nodes not dying, so it being orgwide makes sense to me.
Huh? The level 5 powers all read as if they draw on personal archpower to activate the effect. Nature 5 would require an individual paying 10 to summon the entity.
It logically follows then that the people linking would be the ones using the archpower to gain that effect, then the group beyond them would gain the benefit without spending their archpower.
Nature 5 reads, in the most recent post: "every member of an org receives an entity follower" when it is activated.
Note that it is probably too late to do a switch at this point, so it is not like I am really expecting this to go active instead of the current Beauty lineup. I can say that I would be much more likely to push for researching this set of powers though! But I do mirror the other people, I would like to see this get done so we can get this melder thing moved forward.
@Estarra can you confirm? Nature 5 summoning an entity for everyone in the org is pretty out of line as opposed to, in line with the others, having it be a 10ap thing you personally do and maintain for the rest of the day.
as far as the current beauty 5 goes, eh, if we're not going to fix trading then it's fine. It provides earlier entry into having multiple trades, which in turn incentivises people to invest in a second trade, which would likely result in more people doing it.
Any org that's having difficulty maintaining stocks should likely be maintaining the project. Even if not everyone directly benefits from it, there is an indirect benefit through traders being more easily able to stock more things.
edit: Realistically, when the things people have been complaining about actually start getting worked on this and a bunch of other stuff is probably going to need some pretty significant changes.
Power 3: Eating herbs heals h/m/e (like sparkleberries), 5 archpower per month
This sounds too strong but can you clarify how it works to be sure @Estarra
We don't really need to make people tankier and again a fair few classes are built around brute force vitals hits. Adding in an extra sparkle/scroll style balance is going to upset some combat balance if thats what your trying to do.
Comments
- 1hr buff to influencing outside buff system like wand batons
- Respawn all mobs in an area 1/month (I think someone else said this already)
- Extra criticals
War - unpeace a peaced village revolt.
Nurturing Nature - Cause the area you are in to regenrate any missing plants to five, apply the effects of Nature Growth and the watering can. Activate for 10 archpower.
Nurturing Nature 2.0 - All active commodity generation is doubled from commodity quests, passive. Upon activation of this project, all tithes from villages and aether bubbles are also doubled (commodities and conquest power).Activate for 10 archpower for a duration of 24 hours and requires 10 archpower afterwards to upkeep before this power goes dormant.
Natureborne - Force every room in the local area to become a natural version of itself. Activate for 10 archpower for the effect to last for 1 hour.
Faenation, 10p to activate, every member of an org receives a fae follower (different look depending on org), can only have one. Fae will cure/heal occasionally its member
https://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/comment/194088#Comment_194088
Edited because one got left out.
"Nurturing Nature" has been noted as not appealing even by people it would, presumably, be the most useful for.
"Nurturing Nature 2.0" this seems directly counter to other touches on the economy given the doubling of tithes.
Trade ministers would be able to give more info, but it seems as the org-wide effect would likely make it more easy for people to just go to their local comm shop which in turn hampers the general usefulness of the personal effect if people have lessened need to actually do the comm quests.
"Natureborne" given the mentions that the melder overhaul could significantly change the usability and value of this power. Having another think over what I've seen, it's also plausible terraining as a concept might even go away.
"Faenation" with fae as part of the concept is just potentially headache inducing, elementals are already a thing that every org has, nature giving elementals that are reflective of the merger of the planes connected to an org seems far less problematic.
The question I'd have then is how useful is that to the cities? And what are the inclusions and exclusions
Like, sure Elfen and Faeling are obvious inclusions.
But ForgePath seems like it wouldn't (and shouldn't) unless the paths decay when the effect ends, and if the power does make it usable what are the implications of that?
edit:
If you link it to orgs you could maybe make something like an aura that makes rooms you're in count as your orgs terrain.
It'd trigger all of the relevant racial/guild/construct/etc bonuses linked to being in that terrain, and you just make exclusions along the line of you can't meld a room based on the aura.
If there's a concern about everyone having all of their stuff active you could maybe make it so different aura's cancel each other out while you're in the same room.
If the level 4 was changed to that I would also lean more towards making it active in your orgs terrain type.
- Power 3: Eating herbs heals h/m/e (like sparkleberries), 5 archpower per month
Literally herbs, or does this mean wafer? On sparkleberry balance?Anyway, we've had it open to the the public for suggestions since late February, with this theme since the end of March. We've had a week to come up with ideas so far, some good, some rejected, but very few voices offering ideas. This thread alone has more arguing about proposed ideas than submissions. So since we're on crunch time, do you have any suggestions for Beauty to change it so that it sits better with you? Sadly the Agree button disappeared, because people were hitting that on posts, so the support for certain ideas are just gone without the posts. I eagerly await the suggestions to fix up Beauty so that we can get this implemented in and worry about real issues.
I'm just pointing out that there is no reason for someone to pick that tree over other trees, it's the odd one out in both benefits and design. One of the problems with the economy is the increased self-sufficiency, very low demand, and flooded supply. There's little incentive to become a tailor because of how many tailors are around, with no desire to make profit on tailoring. Further allowing people to undercut costs by doubling yields and more importantly to become further self-sufficient makes this worse - even fewer reasons to engage with other players on trade matters.
It'd help lowbies in influencing because they'd be able to get two attacks when they'd otherwise have one, people at max would have four to cycle through which should be beneficial. Include village as a type and helps there too, especially if it gave you a set of attacks tied to the specific types as it'd mean rank 1's would be able to influence villages.
If the main benefit is not draining nodes and negatively impacting later hunting potential, an alliance could even just co-ordinate to have one org build the project and as long as they're always there for hunts, the other two orgs still derive that same benefit.
The level 5 powers all read as if they draw on personal archpower to activate the effect. Nature 5 would require an individual paying 10 to summon the entity.
It logically follows then that the people linking would be the ones using the archpower to gain that effect, then the group beyond them would gain the benefit without spending their archpower.
Nature 5 summoning an entity for everyone in the org is pretty out of line as opposed to, in line with the others, having it be a 10ap thing you personally do and maintain for the rest of the day.
Any org that's having difficulty maintaining stocks should likely be maintaining the project. Even if not everyone directly benefits from it, there is an indirect benefit through traders being more easily able to stock more things.
edit: Realistically, when the things people have been complaining about actually start getting worked on this and a bunch of other stuff is probably going to need some pretty significant changes.