Lusternia Megathread: Economy Edition

Shaddus

There have really been some major changes to value in things lately, especially in regards to goop and things that produce items such as maps, genies and the like. I'm hoping we can combine all of the threads into one big thread, and brainstorm some changes for the admin to ponder.


Please keep comments constructive when possible. This isn't a thread for complaints.

Xenthos

1) Replace all craftable goop rewards that took the place of Czigany Coins or Genie Presents with an equivalent amount of goop (what it would have taken to craft those items).  This allows people to craft the ones they want instead of giving them tons of candy that they have no use for.

2) Alternatively add fortune cookie items to these things in place of the Czigany Coins / Genie Presents replacement craftable items.  Give a 1-week notice for this change.  When it goes into effect, convert all fortune cookie items to be valued in goop, and make it so that they explode into goop when put into the Wheel instead of coins.

3) For genies, when it would have rolled golden lips, give 400 goop instead (*or* random goop artifacts valued at 600cr, which mostly seems to be some manse artifacts and curio packs that people can trade in or use as they wish).

Shaddus

1: divorce goop from being able to buy anything generally worth over 100 credits.  If a newbie works hard and earns goop to buy an artifact vial, cool. At no point should --anyone-- be buying a 2k credit artifact which isn't actually worth 2k credits due to the currency it was purchased with.  Buy a cubix, spend 1k goop for a skin, bam! A cubix of gnomebone is yours. 

Things I think should definitely be kept as goop-purchasable no matter what: vials, bandoliers, pipes, packs/pouches, noses, skins of any kind, aethersuits and their parts/pieces, gnome weapons,  prayerbeads, zimoru, stasis/privacy gems.

2. The admin need to understand that people purposefully bought many of these items listed as tagged items because they produced Czigany coins. I can assure you that 95% of people who bought urtraps didn't buy them mostly for the cookies, and most people only use them for silver cookies (xp). 

We get it that things have changed,  and they're gonna change more. It still stings, so it may not be a bad idea to cushion the blow. Work on increasing the rewards of our investment within your system: removing the goop cap is a good start.

Another would be to remove the concept of "sticky" goop. Frankly, if goop is no longer worth credits in any way, there shouldn't be an issue if I want to buy an artifact vial for someone else, or even one of my own alts. Nobody is going to be grinding up mountain of goop to supply their alt-army with cherub-bone vials. Probably not.

3: Allow us to spend goop on more things than consumables. I'd trade goop for personal customizations, or essence, or to extend the decay on something I can't rune, or any number of things. Be creative! 

Xenthos

Yep, sticky goop can go away.

Saran

From the outside, it seems like it may be worth pausing generators for a short time while a broader plan moving forward can be dev'd and then adjust the generators in line with that.

Not just goop really, but how everything should fit together which you then echo back into what would be good benefits for the generators without needing to change them again later.

Malayn

Goop needs to serve a purpose in large numbers if it isnt intended to buy anything in value. I would trust having, for example, 40,000 goop not to mean you have no viable options.

Shaddus

Malarious said:

Goop needs to serve a purpose in large numbers if it isnt intended to buy anything in value. I would trust having, for example, 40,000 goop not to mean you have no viable options.

Well, that's a lot of goldentonics to sell at a credit each.

Kalnid

So this is basically unrelated to the current topics but you called it an economy megathread so I'm gonna pitch this anyway: make artifacts rentable with gold. This does three good things.

First, it creates a constant gold sink - temporary artifacts means anyone keeping them would continuously be removing gold from the system. There were probably be some growing pains here due to the whole 'people have way too much gold stocked due to zero reason to burn it ever for the last decade' thing.

Second, it lowers cost of entry: it's essentially easier to grind gold than it is to grind credits. Further, people are generally way more free about tossing around gold, and unlike credits it's never bound; it'd be pretty easy to give a couple nice things to a youngling.

Third, it makes the first taste free. By giving people samples of artifact bonuses, you're creating a pull for them to shell out later.

alternatively just delete every single artifact when stuff goes f2p

Steingrim

Xenthos said:

2) Alternatively add fortune cookie items to these things in place of the Czigany Coins / Genie Presents replacement craftable items.  Give a 1-week notice for this change.  When it goes into effect, convert all fortune cookie items to be valued in goop, and make it so that they explode into goop when put into the Wheel instead of coins.

@Estarra In no way should this be implemented prior to retirement values being locked in.

Xenthos said:

3) For genies, when it would have rolled golden lips, give 400 goop instead (*or* random goop artifacts valued at 600cr, which mostly seems to be some manse artifacts and curio packs that people can trade in or use as they wish).

Random manse artifacts would be interesting and I think elsewhere it was you that mentioned that there could be a goop version of lips (perhaps Silver Lips)?

Steingrim

Shaddus said:

1: divorce goop from being able to buy anything generally worth over 100 credits.  If a newbie works hard and earns goop to buy an artifact vial, cool. At no point should --anyone-- be buying a 2k credit artifact which isn't actually worth 2k credits due to the currency it was purchased with.  Buy a cubix, spend 1k goop for a skin, bam! A cubix of gnomebone is yours. 

I think the current system with slight alterations works better then your suggestion. People need avenues to spend all this goop, especially once quests and other means go live to gain it.

No one will be buying 2k artifacts with goop in the future (with a few exceptions goop artifacts are completely different than credit ones after a previous change).

Kistan

With goop being a third currency, can city and guilds be enabled to be able to have stocks of goop as well?

To me the currencies are interchangeable (although the exchange rate may vary) and I would have been happy to buy excesses of goop from guild members who wished to retire as I would just have changed rewards to goop for a while

Luce

Steingrim said:

...that there could be a goop version of lips (perhaps Silver Lips)?

  Note: Candies are set to one person in packs containing 1-100 candies.
  Costs below are for each candy in a pack.
Type         Effect                            Time    Commodities   Goop  Gold
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...
Waxlips      25% xp buff                       60 min  vegetables 10   20   500

...

(please support your local chef)

Xenthos

Luce said:

Steingrim said:

...that there could be a goop version of lips (perhaps Silver Lips)?

  Note: Candies are set to one person in packs containing 1-100 candies.
  Costs below are for each candy in a pack.
Type         Effect                            Time    Commodities   Goop  Gold
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...
Waxlips      25% xp buff                       60 min  vegetables 10   20   500

...

(please support your local chef)

He is referring to an artifact that can be traded in for goop, not these candies which you are locked into and cannot trade in / get rid of (and don't suggest supporting your local chef, because the game is being flooded with free goop candy-- nobody is going to pay someone to make something that is accessible for free).

Steingrim

Shaddus said:

Malarious said:

Goop needs to serve a purpose in large numbers if it isnt intended to buy anything in value. I would trust having, for example, 40,000 goop not to mean you have no viable options.

Well, that's a lot of goldentonics to sell at a credit each.

They don't sell for a credit each now. They certainly won't be selling for a credit when they're the means to change goop to credits.