Advertising can be great, but good publicity can be better, especially word of mouth and referrals. Fix your existing issues and I think it'll do a better job of drawing in new people as well as retaining existing people.
So much this.
Also those new people gained from advertising could end up finding the existing issues frustrating and leave because of them.
It'd be really great if there was some more clear way to separate the admin who want an order from those who don't.
Like if all "Elder God"s were admin who signed up for an order, Anomalies for those who don't have a real IC presence, and then something else for those who want an IC presence but not an order.
Maybe it could help with expectation setting and the like. Rather than having an elder pop up or return then players get all excited for a new/renewed order, an "entity" or something turns up instead and the lore around them is they're just not capable of forming an order.
Disclaimer: This post cites some personal issues and may rant a bit, but here's your tl;dr first: 1. Burnout and lack of gratification are hard to deal with simultaneously. 2. I profoundly believe that more divine involvement and interaction would be healthy for the game, and transparency would definitely go a long way.
I'll begin by saying that in the last month and a half, I've actually become a lot more active compared to the few months prior. As some will have noticed, my activity over the summer dwindled to the point where I wasn't so much as logging in for weeks at a time (which is incredibly uncharacteristic of me and hasn't happened in years) -- and it wasn't entirely because of the warm weather. However, at the end of summer and after my first trip to Europe and an ancient city, I felt refreshed -- all my enthusiasm came back for Lusternia. I'm not entirely sure why; perhaps it was learning about the history of a real location in the world that reminded me of and made me further appreciate the so very incredible and in-depth world building of Lusternia. Maybe it was the sheer 1.5 weeks of not being able to log in that made me want to. Either way, when I returned, all my passion and love for this game returned with me, and I jumped back in with abandon. So with that in mind, I'll still mention a few things that were putting me off to the point where my in-game time became scarce.
I've only told one person this so far, but now, I freely admit - about three months ago, I wrote a draft of my retirement post. Some of the reasons cited within it were personal -- e.g. a difficulty in adapting to the RP required by the new guild (Rancoura has been a fundamental and fanatical Night/@Nocht -only devotee for over 10 RL years, and now she's required to advocate a bunch of different entities), which was becoming more and more difficult as that new guild smell wore off. Another reason was an absent Divine -- by the time mine came back, it was unfortunately too little, too late; I was already all but disenchanted and sadly disappointed about something that was supposed to happen but didn't before he suddenly poofed without warning and even without my knowledge until two months after the fact (and after much puzzlement about unanswered prayers). @Admin -- please, please understand how crushing this kind of thing can be for your devoted players.
Other reasons were burnout. The Auguries have been very, very quiet the past year aside from its leaders (bless @Kalaneya and @Salome, I couldn't ask for better partners). Building a guild from scratch is a muck-load of work, which I expected and was most willing to do in order to establish something in the game I could love and be proud of again after the Shadowdancers were eaten, and to share the kind of lore-intensive atmosphere that makes Lusternia so immersive and captivating with new players (be they alts or true newbies) -- but feeling like there's no one you're putting all this effort in FOR is a heavy weight indeed, and I started crumbling. Loss of players leading to the loss of other players is a vicious cycle, and finally seeing some alarm in the Havens about the current state of things is a relief (take that with a grain of salt -- for various reasons I'm not in the Discord channels so this is actually the first time I'm seeing it).
This leads me to my next point -- Divine involvement, interaction and roleplay support. I whole-heartedly agree with the previous statements about wanting admins to address the various mechanics issues of the game, but roleplay support is also something that has affected my enjoyment here (and undoubtedly others' as well). For example, losing the Shadowdancers was hard, but with admin backing our new-territory-breaching lore theories and even running with them in small events to help solidify them, the transition was made much easier. The Auguries have a few concepts that are very unique to them (such as Othersight, the Darkrealm and the Shadowveil), but having our admin incorporate our concepts into mob dialogue and mini-events (thank you so, so much @Viravain and any other admin who orchestrated those) really helped drive our roleplay, and probably inspired newbies more than a common player ever could. It made me feel like the very basis upon which my guild is built is actually credible, and not just a few of us rambling like mentally unstable pipe-dreamers.
Divine involvement and interaction is something that has always thrilled me when it happens -- I smile like an idiot behind my screen when my sprite starts bobbing up and down or a whisper of "Very good, little one" echoes behind me. Anything that's not a pre-programmed response or hard-coded ambient (I still enjoy these, but as an older player, I tend to glaze over them). If not large events which understandably take up valuable resources, small interactions would go a long, long way. They make the world of Lusternia feel like a living, breathing thing -- not just thousands of lines of code and automated keyword responses.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops And endless starless night Singing how the wind was lost Before an earthly flight
I personally would love to see more divine interaction, and as some people said, during times when I am actually awake and online. I can honestly say that I haven't really been playing Lusternia as long as some people, only 2yrs and in that time have seen Adal's chosen Divine ONE time and never had an opportunity to interact with Them. I've had many designs accepted by said Divine, but I've never heard from Them, gotten attention or felt their presence in the Realms. While I realise that admins often shift from their roles into other ones, I have to say it was a HUGE disappointment to feel ignored when I literally made it my mission to prey EVERY DAY to show the Divine that I appreciated them and to offer a blessing and not ask for a single thing with zero response. But yet my designs were being accepted so I knew they had to be around in some fashion.
That being said, similar to the Infernals the Heralds have had no work done on building them. This is a disappointment when I alt in Serenwilde and their Guilds are so wholly complete and have so much to do like tasks, rituals and a bookshelf! It also doesn't help when a guild like the Heralds - which is so heavily RP-based, that there is no one who is old enough to teach those who are young. That nothing is being learned because all these huge divides are being created because there is nothing to do so people quit. Lack of opportunities to advance in orgs = disinterest. Divine requests being ignored for a RL year = disinterest. I cannot tell you how many Harbingers we've gone through who have great ideas and lose motivation because nothing can be changed without a touch of Divine intervention.
And to even go off of that, the players themselves need to quit lollygagging around and do stuff. There are a lot of opportunities created by other players to do things and people just ignore it because "meh, that's boring", "ugh, that means I have to put in effort" or "I'm not a part of that clique, (or they're not a part of mine) I refuse to participate in -their- event". I cannot express the frustration I've had in that realm. I understand some people play for PvP, PvE or RP, but it literally takes a minimal amount of effort to make another player feel like they are wanted and that all the hard work they do really makes a difference or spurs interest and encouragement. We can make our own fun when the admins are busy with that they're doing, it's just actually making the effort to do something other than mindlessly standing around while you watch Netflix.
In another of the comments I noticed that someone said they felt none of their ideas were being implemented. I completely agree. When a lot of what I do is design, I feel like it's just a rinse/repeat cycle. Doing the same patterns over and over despite offering ideas on new ones. Can we get more jewellery designs please? Hairpins, hairclips, haircombs, torcs, bangles, spectacles? The list is pathetically short where in tailoring you can literally sew about everything but a sweater and the kitchen sink.
@Adal I agree that new patterns would be nice! In the meantime though, I believe you can get away with creating "a bangle bracelet" and "a torc necklace" to make use of existing patterns for now. Hairpins can also techinically be made with the "pin" pattern under Baubles, as long as you keep it two words ("hair pin" vs "hairpin"). Hope that helps!
Tonight amidst the mountaintops And endless starless night Singing how the wind was lost Before an earthly flight
I personally would love to see more divine interaction, and as some people said, during times when I am actually awake and online. I can honestly say that I haven't really been playing Lusternia as long as some people, only 2yrs and in that time have seen Adal's chosen Divine ONE time and never had an opportunity to interact with Them. I've had many designs accepted by said Divine, but I've never heard from Them, gotten attention or felt their presence in the Realms. While I realise that admins often shift from their roles into other ones, I have to say it was a HUGE disappointment to feel ignored when I literally made it my mission to prey EVERY DAY to show the Divine that I appreciated them and to offer a blessing and not ask for a single thing with zero response. But yet my designs were being accepted so I knew they had to be around in some fashion.
That being said, similar to the Infernals the Heralds have had no work done on building them. This is a disappointment when I alt in Serenwilde and their Guilds are so wholly complete and have so much to do like tasks, rituals and a bookshelf! It also doesn't help when a guild like the Heralds - which is so heavily RP-based, that there is no one who is old enough to teach those who are young. That nothing is being learned because all these huge divides are being created because there is nothing to do so people quit. Lack of opportunities to advance in orgs = disinterest. Divine requests being ignored for a RL year = disinterest. I cannot tell you how many Harbingers we've gone through who have great ideas and lose motivation because nothing can be changed without a touch of Divine intervention.
And to even go off of that, the players themselves need to quit lollygagging around and do stuff. There are a lot of opportunities created by other players to do things and people just ignore it because "meh, that's boring", "ugh, that means I have to put in effort" or "I'm not a part of that clique, (or they're not a part of mine) I refuse to participate in -their- event". I cannot express the frustration I've had in that realm. I understand some people play for PvP, PvE or RP, but it literally takes a minimal amount of effort to make another player feel like they are wanted and that all the hard work they do really makes a difference or spurs interest and encouragement. We can make our own fun when the admins are busy with that they're doing, it's just actually making the effort to do something other than mindlessly standing around while you watch Netflix.
In another of the comments I noticed that someone said they felt none of their ideas were being implemented. I completely agree. When a lot of what I do is design, I feel like it's just a rinse/repeat cycle. Doing the same patterns over and over despite offering ideas on new ones. Can we get more jewellery designs please? Hairpins, hairclips, haircombs, torcs, bangles, spectacles? The list is pathetically short where in tailoring you can literally sew about everything but a sweater and the kitchen sink.
I've personally offered my assistance in those cases of educating people on lore for the Heralds. I've even done interviews for some members of the Heralds. I've also made offers to help with the guild as well, but many wish to appear to want to do that themselves. Many have said they did not want my help, even though I know quite a bit and could be useful if called upon. You can't really do anything but respect the nature in which people want to do/work for in their organisations. So I don't really barge in. I'm not looking to be controlling anything, and I'd rather have other players step up and let me assist as needed.
I have also heard of players bowing out of events because of some sort of personal opposition to it. I don't really think that helps either, and nor does blaming Divine in general. I don't think that boycotting events will get the message across, it will just deter admin from wanting to do more things visibly.
Divine interaction and lack thereof is very frustrating. I'm afraid that most times Divine aren't purposefully ignoring you or any of that. I'm not sure what you mean about accepting designs and offerings, but most Divines don't have places to offer unless you mean their Fulcruxes, or some sort of coded offering bowl which sends things along. I don't think it's fair to keep tabs on them either, because they're only going to only have a certain amount of time to be visible whenever they have time.
Divine requests, as well, aren't being ignored - simply there aren't enough Divine around with the time to do said requests to be there. Yes, it's certainly detrimental, but that's something that those Divine can't help, especially in situations where it's one person against a workload of three different developing guilds. Just like us, they have lives and they can't spend hours just working for us or tending just to our needs.
It's not their fault. I think it's more that the resources of actual admin are shorter than we have realized. And it has escalated, what with player population dropping rapidly, to that point where we are in dire need of more help, and the people who REALLY are desperately wanting to contribute can't right now.
Divine guidance is certainly helpful and enriching, but it is not the answer to all of the problems at present. It's more about logistics and reality. Yes, it's going to cause disinterest, and burn out people. But until we have more people who feel brave enough to become admin, and chip in to the huge workload I know exists on a day to day basis - then we'll have to find ways to be more aware and active as players.
The cool night-time breeze shivers in the arid caress of the streets of the capital city, brushing the earthen taste of dust across your lips.
*
A blessed silence falls upon the city for the moment, most activity confined to the towers and the theatre due to the snowy weather.
*
Pinprick points of light twinkle in the deep black overhead, their brightness full of a cold, hungering malice.
I have also heard of players bowing out of events because of some sort of personal opposition to it. I don't really think that helps either, and nor does blaming Divine in general. I don't think that boycotting events will get the message across, it will just deter admin from wanting to do more things visibly.
Divine interaction and lack thereof is very frustrating. I'm afraid that most times Divine aren't purposefully ignoring you or any of that. I'm not sure what you mean about accepting designs and offerings, but most Divines don't have places to offer unless you mean their Fulcruxes, or some sort of coded offering bowl which sends things along. I don't think it's fair to keep tabs on them either, because they're only going to only have a certain amount of time to be visible whenever they have time.
Divine requests, as well, aren't being ignored - simply there aren't enough Divine around with the time to do said requests to be there. Yes, it's certainly detrimental, but that's something that those Divine can't help, especially in situations where it's one person against a workload of four different developing guilds. Just like us, they have lives and they can't spend hours just working for us or tending just to our needs.
It's not their fault. I think it's more that the resources of actual admin are shorter than we have realized. And it has escalated, what with player population dropping rapidly, to that point where we are in dire need of more help, and the people who REALLY are desperately wanting to contribute can't right now.
Divine guidance is certainly helpful and enriching, but it is not the answer to all of the problems at present. It's more about logistics and reality. Yes, it's going to cause disinterest, and burn out people. But until we have more people who feel brave enough to become admin, and chip in to the huge workload I know exists on a day to day basis - then we'll have to find ways to be more aware and active as players.
I would disagree regarding not bowing out of events, I think that's a point where players get to when they're unhappy with how things are being handled or the stories that are being told, so if the admin continue to run those events then not participating is basically the only way left to send the message.
Regarding the rest, I mean, while it is just a thing you say... we are always told that there are more applicants for eph than are accepted upping the number may be required for a while.
I have also heard of players bowing out of events because of some sort of personal opposition to it. I don't really think that helps either, and nor does blaming Divine in general. I don't think that boycotting events will get the message across, it will just deter admin from wanting to do more things visibly.
Divine interaction and lack thereof is very frustrating. I'm afraid that most times Divine aren't purposefully ignoring you or any of that. I'm not sure what you mean about accepting designs and offerings, but most Divines don't have places to offer unless you mean their Fulcruxes, or some sort of coded offering bowl which sends things along. I don't think it's fair to keep tabs on them either, because they're only going to only have a certain amount of time to be visible whenever they have time.
Divine requests, as well, aren't being ignored - simply there aren't enough Divine around with the time to do said requests to be there. Yes, it's certainly detrimental, but that's something that those Divine can't help, especially in situations where it's one person against a workload of four different developing guilds. Just like us, they have lives and they can't spend hours just working for us or tending just to our needs.
It's not their fault. I think it's more that the resources of actual admin are shorter than we have realized. And it has escalated, what with player population dropping rapidly, to that point where we are in dire need of more help, and the people who REALLY are desperately wanting to contribute can't right now.
Divine guidance is certainly helpful and enriching, but it is not the answer to all of the problems at present. It's more about logistics and reality. Yes, it's going to cause disinterest, and burn out people. But until we have more people who feel brave enough to become admin, and chip in to the huge workload I know exists on a day to day basis - then we'll have to find ways to be more aware and active as players.
I would disagree regarding not bowing out of events, I think that's a point where players get to when they're unhappy with how things are being handled or the stories that are being told, so if the admin continue to run those events then not participating is basically the only way left to send the message.
Regarding the rest, I mean, while it is just a thing you say... we are always told that there are more applicants for eph than are accepted upping the number may be required for a while.
I would say that maybe the vetting process is probably more specific than we think. I wonder if applications for ephemerals will open up soon considering all of the discusssion.
I think while there is merit to your point about events and protest, I think there are other more mature ways of expressing some sort of issue. An email, a polite message. Maybe I’m just more optimistic about being listened to, but I generally believe in using the system. Not shunning what’s happening that may be a positive step in the right direction.
The cool night-time breeze shivers in the arid caress of the streets of the capital city, brushing the earthen taste of dust across your lips.
*
A blessed silence falls upon the city for the moment, most activity confined to the towers and the theatre due to the snowy weather.
*
Pinprick points of light twinkle in the deep black overhead, their brightness full of a cold, hungering malice.
so, I was this close to retiring Arimisia, and was screwed over for a short time in doing so because for whatever reason, she apparently had lost her value to retire. I have purged the character, she has nothing but a name and a title, I still hold a position that takes very little effort to do and that is about all that keeps me coming back at this point even though the retirement value issue with her has been fixed.
without sounding too harsh, every reason I had to play, is pretty much gone, all the fun I had has been taken out of this game. Came on tonight and seen the post about the old guild leaders and find I still have an iksome attachment to this game, old guild leaders was the nail in the coffin for me, up till the last 2-3 week I was GM of my guild for like 3 years. But it is not even that, Ari was a merchant, what I played her to do, to be. I did the whole commodity mines thing, yes, I understand how they messed things, getting back 13,000 BOUND dingbats, let me tell you, you cannot spend that many dingbats -.- I tried. but that was kind the end of that, sure had my stockpile but it dwindled and lost interest and then there is no reason to hunt, with exp and gold caps there was really no point. on a slightly more OOC area I always had my goals in the artisanal fields, but like everything else, gone away with that too. Always wanted to be the highest rank of Divine there but, will forever fall short of it. heh
so, these are the reasons I do not "play" this game anymore, I just show up every now and again to make sure shops are still in order.
The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."
I have also heard of players bowing out of events because of some sort of personal opposition to it. I don't really think that helps either, and nor does blaming Divine in general. I don't think that boycotting events will get the message across, it will just deter admin from wanting to do more things visibly.
Divine interaction and lack thereof is very frustrating. I'm afraid that most times Divine aren't purposefully ignoring you or any of that. I'm not sure what you mean about accepting designs and offerings, but most Divines don't have places to offer unless you mean their Fulcruxes, or some sort of coded offering bowl which sends things along. I don't think it's fair to keep tabs on them either, because they're only going to only have a certain amount of time to be visible whenever they have time.
Divine requests, as well, aren't being ignored - simply there aren't enough Divine around with the time to do said requests to be there. Yes, it's certainly detrimental, but that's something that those Divine can't help, especially in situations where it's one person against a workload of four different developing guilds. Just like us, they have lives and they can't spend hours just working for us or tending just to our needs.
It's not their fault. I think it's more that the resources of actual admin are shorter than we have realized. And it has escalated, what with player population dropping rapidly, to that point where we are in dire need of more help, and the people who REALLY are desperately wanting to contribute can't right now.
Divine guidance is certainly helpful and enriching, but it is not the answer to all of the problems at present. It's more about logistics and reality. Yes, it's going to cause disinterest, and burn out people. But until we have more people who feel brave enough to become admin, and chip in to the huge workload I know exists on a day to day basis - then we'll have to find ways to be more aware and active as players.
I would disagree regarding not bowing out of events, I think that's a point where players get to when they're unhappy with how things are being handled or the stories that are being told, so if the admin continue to run those events then not participating is basically the only way left to send the message.
Regarding the rest, I mean, while it is just a thing you say... we are always told that there are more applicants for eph than are accepted upping the number may be required for a while.
I would say that maybe the vetting process is probably more specific than we think. I wonder if applications for ephemerals will open up soon considering all of the discusssion.
I think while there is merit to your point about events and protest, I think there are other more mature ways of expressing some sort of issue. An email, a polite message. Maybe I’m just more optimistic about being listened to, but I generally believe in using the system. Not shunning what’s happening that may be a positive step in the right direction.
I think if a player is at the point where they're actually excluding themselves from the experience of an event then they've likely tried other methods.
More broadly, people will only use a system when they believe that it's actually effective and that expectation can be variably set through experience. People whose concerns are actually resolved are more likely to use systems. People who are ignored (or even just feel that they are) won't use them, maybe they'll do stuff like post on the forums, maybe they'll have a vent session with their friends where the admin aren't allowed.
Even people with less direct experience are impacted. The newer people will hear from friends about how things are handled which then informs their expectations, which are either met or subverted when they use the system. This also loops into the reality that people are generally far more likely to talk about the negative than the positive.
I have also heard of players bowing out of events because of some sort of personal opposition to it. I don't really think that helps either, and nor does blaming Divine in general. I don't think that boycotting events will get the message across, it will just deter admin from wanting to do more things visibly.
Divine interaction and lack thereof is very frustrating. I'm afraid that most times Divine aren't purposefully ignoring you or any of that. I'm not sure what you mean about accepting designs and offerings, but most Divines don't have places to offer unless you mean their Fulcruxes, or some sort of coded offering bowl which sends things along. I don't think it's fair to keep tabs on them either, because they're only going to only have a certain amount of time to be visible whenever they have time.
Divine requests, as well, aren't being ignored - simply there aren't enough Divine around with the time to do said requests to be there. Yes, it's certainly detrimental, but that's something that those Divine can't help, especially in situations where it's one person against a workload of four different developing guilds. Just like us, they have lives and they can't spend hours just working for us or tending just to our needs.
It's not their fault. I think it's more that the resources of actual admin are shorter than we have realized. And it has escalated, what with player population dropping rapidly, to that point where we are in dire need of more help, and the people who REALLY are desperately wanting to contribute can't right now.
Divine guidance is certainly helpful and enriching, but it is not the answer to all of the problems at present. It's more about logistics and reality. Yes, it's going to cause disinterest, and burn out people. But until we have more people who feel brave enough to become admin, and chip in to the huge workload I know exists on a day to day basis - then we'll have to find ways to be more aware and active as players.
I would disagree regarding not bowing out of events, I think that's a point where players get to when they're unhappy with how things are being handled or the stories that are being told, so if the admin continue to run those events then not participating is basically the only way left to send the message.
Regarding the rest, I mean, while it is just a thing you say... we are always told that there are more applicants for eph than are accepted upping the number may be required for a while.
I would say that maybe the vetting process is probably more specific than we think. I wonder if applications for ephemerals will open up soon considering all of the discusssion.
I think while there is merit to your point about events and protest, I think there are other more mature ways of expressing some sort of issue. An email, a polite message. Maybe I’m just more optimistic about being listened to, but I generally believe in using the system. Not shunning what’s happening that may be a positive step in the right direction.
I think if a player is at the point where they're actually excluding themselves from the experience of an event then they've likely tried other methods.
More broadly, people will only use a system when they believe that it's actually effective and that expectation can be variably set through experience. People whose concerns are actually resolved are more likely to use systems. People who are ignored (or even just feel that they are) won't use them, maybe they'll do stuff like post on the forums, maybe they'll have a vent session with their friends where the admin aren't allowed.
Even people with less direct experience are impacted. The newer people will hear from friends about how things are handled which then informs their expectations, which are either met or subverted when they use the system. This also loops into the reality that people are generally far more likely to talk about the negative than the positive.
I send emails whenever I run into something that I think could be improved upon / done differently / etc. Sometimes it gets a response, sometimes it gets dealt with, sometimes there's just disagreement (I currently have one email set in that hasn't gotten a response yet, happens sometimes, usually I just follow up because they get lost and the followup gets a response 100% of the time in my experience-- I just usually wait 1-2 weeks before I send the followup so it's not "spam").
Forums are less likely to receive an official administrative response than an email to the Support email address (@lusternia.com, of course). That's still the best way to go, has been all of Lusternia's life.
I would hazard to say that there is nobody currently playing Lusternia who has been part of more "bad" events than I have. I have a bunch of horror stories! But I still love participating in them... events are (to me) the lifeblood of Lusternia, and I've been part of so so so many more good (even great) events than the bad ones. It's worth poking in. If you don't like it you can always leave (except for the ones that are Divine Mandated so you literally cannot leave... see, they do listen, I don't think that one's ever happened again!). Encouraging Divine to run events by participating in them (and providing constructive criticism if you really feel the need to) is better than just boycotting and having everything be Dead imo.
I send emails whenever I run into something that I think could be improved upon / done differently / etc. Sometimes it gets a response, sometimes it gets dealt with, sometimes there's just disagreement (I currently have one email set in that hasn't gotten a response yet, happens sometimes, usually I just follow up because they get lost and the followup gets a response 100% of the time in my experience-- I just usually wait 1-2 weeks before I send the followup so it's not "spam").
Forums are less likely to receive an official administrative response than an email to the Support email address (@lusternia.com, of course). That's still the best way to go, has been all of Lusternia's life.
I would hazard to say that there is nobody currently playing Lusternia who has been part of more "bad" events than I have. I have a bunch of horror stories! But I still love participating in them... events are (to me) the lifeblood of Lusternia, and I've been part of so so so many more good (even great) events than the bad ones. It's worth poking in. If you don't like it you can always leave (except for the ones that are Divine Mandated so you literally cannot leave... see, they do listen, I don't think that one's ever happened again!). Encouraging Divine to run events by participating in them (and providing constructive criticism if you really feel the need to) is better than just boycotting and having everything be Dead imo.
That's your experience, other people have different experience.
For example, when I sent emails because my envoys hadn't dealt with a situation in years the response was ultimately "talk to your envoys". What message is someone meant to receive about the complaints process with that sort of response?
Similarly, emails are invisible where the forums are public. The way the admin handle complaints on the forums creates expectations of how they would handle less public complaints. The more public the medium the more important it is for a company to handle matters well because it shows the people that don't believe you'll listen that you actually will, that you value their feedback and will try to make things better.
Realistically, one thing your post has done is highlight that some players are listened to which other players very obviously do not feel is the same for them. I wonder why people accuse the admin of bias?
EDIT: Just to really put it out there, despite what some think, people in general don't complain when they're unhappy.
Stats show really interesting stuff such as 96% of people with a complaint won't say a word, and 91% of them will just leave. It takes time and energy to actually put complaints out there and the onus is on the company to prove that it's worth peoples time to do so.
so, I was this close to retiring Arimisia, and was screwed over for a short time in doing so because for whatever reason, she apparently had lost her value to retire. I have purged the character, she has nothing but a name and a title, I still hold a position that takes very little effort to do and that is about all that keeps me coming back at this point even though the retirement value issue with her has been fixed.
without sounding too harsh, every reason I had to play, is pretty much gone, all the fun I had has been taken out of this game. Came on tonight and seen the post about the old guild leaders and find I still have an iksome attachment to this game, old guild leaders was the nail in the coffin for me, up till the last 2-3 week I was GM of my guild for like 3 years. But it is not even that, Ari was a merchant, what I played her to do, to be. I did the whole commodity mines thing, yes, I understand how they messed things, getting back 13,000 BOUND dingbats, let me tell you, you cannot spend that many dingbats -.- I tried. but that was kind the end of that, sure had my stockpile but it dwindled and lost interest and then there is no reason to hunt, with exp and gold caps there was really no point. on a slightly more OOC area I always had my goals in the artisanal fields, but like everything else, gone away with that too. Always wanted to be the highest rank of Divine there but, will forever fall short of it. heh
so, these are the reasons I do not "play" this game anymore, I just show up every now and again to make sure shops are still in order.
No one deserves it more, by far the longest UG GM.
I send emails whenever I run into something that I think could be improved upon / done differently / etc. Sometimes it gets a response, sometimes it gets dealt with, sometimes there's just disagreement (I currently have one email set in that hasn't gotten a response yet, happens sometimes, usually I just follow up because they get lost and the followup gets a response 100% of the time in my experience-- I just usually wait 1-2 weeks before I send the followup so it's not "spam").
Forums are less likely to receive an official administrative response than an email to the Support email address (@lusternia.com, of course). That's still the best way to go, has been all of Lusternia's life.
I would hazard to say that there is nobody currently playing Lusternia who has been part of more "bad" events than I have. I have a bunch of horror stories! But I still love participating in them... events are (to me) the lifeblood of Lusternia, and I've been part of so so so many more good (even great) events than the bad ones. It's worth poking in. If you don't like it you can always leave (except for the ones that are Divine Mandated so you literally cannot leave... see, they do listen, I don't think that one's ever happened again!). Encouraging Divine to run events by participating in them (and providing constructive criticism if you really feel the need to) is better than just boycotting and having everything be Dead imo.
That's your experience, other people have different experience.
For example, when I sent emails because my envoys hadn't dealt with a situation in years the response was ultimately "talk to your envoys". What message is someone meant to receive about the complaints process with that sort of response?
Similarly, emails are invisible where the forums are public. The way the admin handle complaints on the forums creates expectations of how they would handle less public complaints. The more public the medium the more important it is for a company to handle matters well because it shows the people that don't believe you'll listen that you actually will, that you value their feedback and will try to make things better.
Realistically, one thing your post has done is highlight that some players are listened to which other players very obviously do not feel is the same for them. I wonder why people accuse the admin of bias?
EDIT: Just to really put it out there, despite what some think, people in general don't complain when they're unhappy.
Stats show really interesting stuff such as 96% of people with a complaint won't say a word, and 91% of them will just leave. It takes time and energy to actually put complaints out there and the onus is on the company to prove that it's worth peoples time to do so.
If that's what you got from my post, then you didn't bother to read it. You're taking your own biases and throwing them at what I say to read whatever you want to out of it to reinforce your own viewpoint. I've gotten replies that run the gamut, from "Oh, let's see if we can do something" to "Eh, well, I'll pass it along" to "I just don't agree." What my post actually did was state that I get replies, by being persistent in asking for them, and that's the only thing that it actually demonstrates.
If you go into a discussion expecting it to be adversarial, it's probably going to be adversarial.
Yes, emails are invisible to the public. Yes, more public discussion is actually one of the things I've written many emails (and forum posts / threads, too!) about over the years. Obviously they haven't listened to that one. Sending emails / getting a response doesn't mean "We're going to do what you say," and they don't do what I write about most of the time. Calling that "biased" is, well. I think that's entirely on you.
If that's what you got from my post, then you didn't bother to read it. You're taking your own biases and throwing them at what I say to read whatever you want to out of it to reinforce your own viewpoint. I've gotten replies that run the gamut, from "Oh, let's see if we can do something" to "Eh, well, I'll pass it along" to "I just don't agree." What my post actually did was state that I get replies, by being persistent in asking for them, and that's the only thing that it actually demonstrates.
If you go into a discussion expecting it to be adversarial, it's probably going to be adversarial.
Yes, emails are invisible to the public. Yes, more public discussion is actually one of the things I've written many emails (and forum posts / threads, too!) about over the years. Obviously they haven't listened to that one. Sending emails / getting a response doesn't mean "We're going to do what you say," and they don't do what I write about most of the time. Calling that "biased" is, well. I think that's entirely on you.
Oh, I go into most interactions with the admin expecting to be ignored or at best told to go to my envoys to get resolutions for issues my envoys haven't resolved because that's why my experience has shown me will happen and what continues to happen.
As for people interpreting things through their own viewpoints that's basically what all humans do and in turn why it's best to let the admin actually speak for themselves. You're also missing that "listening to" doesn't necessarily mean implementation, even the expectation that the admin will even respond to you is something not all players have.
As a simple example, in Estarra's thread Rancoura posted a summary of the survey idea that I'd directed to Estarra in this thread. No response to me, no response when I posted in response, responses to other people, the expectation of being ignored is met. (Ended up just sending the idea straight to Tecton instead as it seemed more effective *shrug*)
So yeah, you saying you get responses doesn't change my expectation because it's not being subverted by the people that are creating it and ultimately just reinforces that some get responses while others don't. In turn, this leads to the perception of bias especially when people can see the same thing happening repeatedly and at the end of the day, if that behaviour persists long enough then it constitutes an actual bias towards certain players.
You are talking about an idea posted to the forums. I have already agreed with you that forum response rate is not ideal. You won't be able to talk me into a belief I've already held for 9 years!
What I am saying is that I try more than just the forums for things that really bug me, and the more personal / direct nature of email does seem to work, eventually. And has for everyone I have ever given this advice to (so it is certainly not a "personal / me only" thing). Again, that is not bias, that is understanding the limitations they have and working with them instead of assuming they just "have it in for me."
Does it generate a result all the time? Of course not... I have gotten the "speak to your envoys" response and I am an envoy, so that is always a bit "huh?" But I am also stating that not getting a response to every post on the forums is to be expected at this point, it is not indicative of anything except that there is limited staff and only so much time.
I used to advocate for them to bring on a community rep, someone who actually could do what you seem to be asking for. Estarra ignored me for a few years, eventually came and replied in a forum thread that it just was not feasible. We eventually got Ianir who was incredible at the community outreach and did continually lift things from the forums, but there was also a huge load for him to shoulder there too.
The biggest change that I think you should be all over with your stated concerns is the new reporting feature. Theoretically you can report any game mechanic, gather support, and get a response on. No more need to work through envoys, or have something get lost in the sea of forum posts.
I was personally really dubious about the change when I first heard about it, but in talking it over it grew on me. Do I see some potential issues? Yes, I really do; possibly some big ones. Would it let more people feel like they are being heard? Hopefully. Is it worth at least trying? I think so.
Basically, from where I stand they are trying to shake things up in a manner that they can handle with their available resources, and you are replying with "People think they are fostering bias!"
I am not sure what you expect from them. Maybe take a step back from "believing you will be ignored" and try to go into this with an open mind? It certainly won't do as well as it could if people give up before it is even implemented and do not even try.
Edit: PS, I am bringing the new report system up now because you are getting into more specific examples that I think could actually be addressed by it. There is nothing that says the reports have to be skill related only, after all (vs the more general sense of "meh, they don't care" I was getting from you earlier).
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Also those new people gained from advertising could end up finding the existing issues frustrating and leave because of them.
It'd be really great if there was some more clear way to separate the admin who want an order from those who don't.
Like if all "Elder God"s were admin who signed up for an order, Anomalies for those who don't have a real IC presence, and then something else for those who want an IC presence but not an order.
Maybe it could help with expectation setting and the like.
Rather than having an elder pop up or return then players get all excited for a new/renewed order, an "entity" or something turns up instead and the lore around them is they're just not capable of forming an order.
I like this idea because it -should- be possible to add programatically, saving admin a lot of time and effort.
I'll begin by saying that in the last month and a half, I've actually become a lot more active compared to the few months prior. As some will have noticed, my activity over the summer dwindled to the point where I wasn't so much as logging in for weeks at a time (which is incredibly uncharacteristic of me and hasn't happened in years) -- and it wasn't entirely because of the warm weather. However, at the end of summer and after my first trip to Europe and an ancient city, I felt refreshed -- all my enthusiasm came back for Lusternia. I'm not entirely sure why; perhaps it was learning about the history of a real location in the world that reminded me of and made me further appreciate the so very incredible and in-depth world building of Lusternia. Maybe it was the sheer 1.5 weeks of not being able to log in that made me want to. Either way, when I returned, all my passion and love for this game returned with me, and I jumped back in with abandon. So with that in mind, I'll still mention a few things that were putting me off to the point where my in-game time became scarce.
I've only told one person this so far, but now, I freely admit - about three months ago, I wrote a draft of my retirement post. Some of the reasons cited within it were personal -- e.g. a difficulty in adapting to the RP required by the new guild (Rancoura has been a fundamental and fanatical Night/@Nocht -only devotee for over 10 RL years, and now she's required to advocate a bunch of different entities), which was becoming more and more difficult as that new guild smell wore off. Another reason was an absent Divine -- by the time mine came back, it was unfortunately too little, too late; I was already all but disenchanted and sadly disappointed about something that was supposed to happen but didn't before he suddenly poofed without warning and even without my knowledge until two months after the fact (and after much puzzlement about unanswered prayers). @Admin -- please, please understand how crushing this kind of thing can be for your devoted players.
Other reasons were burnout. The Auguries have been very, very quiet the past year aside from its leaders (bless @Kalaneya and @Salome, I couldn't ask for better partners). Building a guild from scratch is a muck-load of work, which I expected and was most willing to do in order to establish something in the game I could love and be proud of again after the Shadowdancers were eaten, and to share the kind of lore-intensive atmosphere that makes Lusternia so immersive and captivating with new players (be they alts or true newbies) -- but feeling like there's no one you're putting all this effort in FOR is a heavy weight indeed, and I started crumbling. Loss of players leading to the loss of other players is a vicious cycle, and finally seeing some alarm in the Havens about the current state of things is a relief (take that with a grain of salt -- for various reasons I'm not in the Discord channels so this is actually the first time I'm seeing it).
This leads me to my next point -- Divine involvement, interaction and roleplay support. I whole-heartedly agree with the previous statements about wanting admins to address the various mechanics issues of the game, but roleplay support is also something that has affected my enjoyment here (and undoubtedly others' as well). For example, losing the Shadowdancers was hard, but with admin backing our new-territory-breaching lore theories and even running with them in small events to help solidify them, the transition was made much easier. The Auguries have a few concepts that are very unique to them (such as Othersight, the Darkrealm and the Shadowveil), but having our admin incorporate our concepts into mob dialogue and mini-events (thank you so, so much @Viravain and any other admin who orchestrated those) really helped drive our roleplay, and probably inspired newbies more than a common player ever could. It made me feel like the very basis upon which my guild is built is actually credible, and not just a few of us rambling like mentally unstable pipe-dreamers.
Divine involvement and interaction is something that has always thrilled me when it happens -- I smile like an idiot behind my screen when my sprite starts bobbing up and down or a whisper of "Very good, little one" echoes behind me. Anything that's not a pre-programmed response or hard-coded ambient (I still enjoy these, but as an older player, I tend to glaze over them). If not large events which understandably take up valuable resources, small interactions would go a long, long way. They make the world of Lusternia feel like a living, breathing thing -- not just thousands of lines of code and automated keyword responses.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
That being said, similar to the Infernals the Heralds have had no work done on building them. This is a disappointment when I alt in Serenwilde and their Guilds are so wholly complete and have so much to do like tasks, rituals and a bookshelf! It also doesn't help when a guild like the Heralds - which is so heavily RP-based, that there is no one who is old enough to teach those who are young. That nothing is being learned because all these huge divides are being created because there is nothing to do so people quit. Lack of opportunities to advance in orgs = disinterest. Divine requests being ignored for a RL year = disinterest. I cannot tell you how many Harbingers we've gone through who have great ideas and lose motivation because nothing can be changed without a touch of Divine intervention.
And to even go off of that, the players themselves need to quit lollygagging around and do stuff. There are a lot of opportunities created by other players to do things and people just ignore it because "meh, that's boring", "ugh, that means I have to put in effort" or "I'm not a part of that clique, (or they're not a part of mine) I refuse to participate in -their- event". I cannot express the frustration I've had in that realm. I understand some people play for PvP, PvE or RP, but it literally takes a minimal amount of effort to make another player feel like they are wanted and that all the hard work they do really makes a difference or spurs interest and encouragement. We can make our own fun when the admins are busy with that they're doing, it's just actually making the effort to do something other than mindlessly standing around while you watch Netflix.
In another of the comments I noticed that someone said they felt none of their ideas were being implemented. I completely agree. When a lot of what I do is design, I feel like it's just a rinse/repeat cycle. Doing the same patterns over and over despite offering ideas on new ones. Can we get more jewellery designs please? Hairpins, hairclips, haircombs, torcs, bangles, spectacles? The list is pathetically short where in tailoring you can literally sew about everything but a sweater and the kitchen sink.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
theatre due to the snowy weather.
hungering malice.
Regarding the rest, I mean, while it is just a thing you say... we are always told that there are more applicants for eph than are accepted upping the number may be required for a while.
I think while there is merit to your point about events and protest, I think there are other more mature ways of expressing some sort of issue. An email, a polite message. Maybe I’m just more optimistic about being listened to, but I generally believe in using the system. Not shunning what’s happening that may be a positive step in the right direction.
theatre due to the snowy weather.
hungering malice.
without sounding too harsh, every reason I had to play, is pretty much gone, all the fun I had has been taken out of this game. Came on tonight and seen the post about the old guild leaders and find I still have an iksome attachment to this game, old guild leaders was the nail in the coffin for me, up till the last 2-3 week I was GM of my guild for like 3 years. But it is not even that, Ari was a merchant, what I played her to do, to be. I did the whole commodity mines thing, yes, I understand how they messed things, getting back 13,000 BOUND dingbats, let me tell you, you cannot spend that many dingbats -.- I tried. but that was kind the end of that, sure had my stockpile but it dwindled and lost interest and then there is no reason to hunt, with exp and gold caps there was really no point. on a slightly more OOC area I always had my goals in the artisanal fields, but like everything else, gone away with that too. Always wanted to be the highest rank of Divine there but, will forever fall short of it. heh
so, these are the reasons I do not "play" this game anymore, I just show up every now and again to make sure shops are still in order.
More broadly, people will only use a system when they believe that it's actually effective and that expectation can be variably set through experience. People whose concerns are actually resolved are more likely to use systems.
People who are ignored (or even just feel that they are) won't use them, maybe they'll do stuff like post on the forums, maybe they'll have a vent session with their friends where the admin aren't allowed.
Even people with less direct experience are impacted. The newer people will hear from friends about how things are handled which then informs their expectations, which are either met or subverted when they use the system. This also loops into the reality that people are generally far more likely to talk about the negative than the positive.
For example, when I sent emails because my envoys hadn't dealt with a situation in years the response was ultimately "talk to your envoys". What message is someone meant to receive about the complaints process with that sort of response?
Similarly, emails are invisible where the forums are public. The way the admin handle complaints on the forums creates expectations of how they would handle less public complaints.
The more public the medium the more important it is for a company to handle matters well because it shows the people that don't believe you'll listen that you actually will, that you value their feedback and will try to make things better.
Realistically, one thing your post has done is highlight that some players are listened to which other players very obviously do not feel is the same for them. I wonder why people accuse the admin of bias?
EDIT:
Just to really put it out there, despite what some think, people in general don't complain when they're unhappy.
Stats show really interesting stuff such as 96% of people with a complaint won't say a word, and 91% of them will just leave. It takes time and energy to actually put complaints out there and the onus is on the company to prove that it's worth peoples time to do so.
As for people interpreting things through their own viewpoints that's basically what all humans do and in turn why it's best to let the admin actually speak for themselves. You're also missing that "listening to" doesn't necessarily mean implementation, even the expectation that the admin will even respond to you is something not all players have.
As a simple example, in Estarra's thread Rancoura posted a summary of the survey idea that I'd directed to Estarra in this thread.
No response to me, no response when I posted in response, responses to other people, the expectation of being ignored is met. (Ended up just sending the idea straight to Tecton instead as it seemed more effective *shrug*)
So yeah, you saying you get responses doesn't change my expectation because it's not being subverted by the people that are creating it and ultimately just reinforces that some get responses while others don't.
In turn, this leads to the perception of bias especially when people can see the same thing happening repeatedly and at the end of the day, if that behaviour persists long enough then it constitutes an actual bias towards certain players.