Newbie Question

Estarra

It's really hard for someone who is new, to take a break for 1 rl year and then come back and relearn everything again. It's not really the commands and stuff, but it is the fact that we all need so many things item-wise. So many enchantments, so many different kinds of special items like regulators and teardrop sigils. It's just too much to handle. I'm really trying here to stay, as I like the world, but It's just so hard to get back into things.

We recently got the above message and I'm wondering what exactly you think a newbie or returning player would need to get back into things? If there was a package that included what one would need to start that could be purchased with gold by either the player or a friend, how much should it reasonably cost?

Ayisdra

There is already a welcomeback package (as of changelog 1000, 8/12/2017) -

   o Players who have not logged in for 60 days will be able to use WELCOMEBACK
   to receive a care package containing: several of each curative, five vials,
   five teardrop sigils, a pipetank, seven enchanted rings (kingdom, mercy,
   perfection, beauty, waterwalk, waterbreathe, levitate), and a small sum of
   gold to cover any basic supplies needed while getting back into the swing of
   things.

Lavinya

Yeah the existing welcome back package is pretty fantastic.

Enya

I think it would be alleviated some if a lot more was just... set up automatically from the start. Instead of loading newbies with vials and teardrops, just give them teardropped vials already linked to fluids, with liquidrift learned at baseline (instead of refunding lessons on learning it). Same with curing, just start with it already learned and ON. 

Bairloch

I'd have to disagree. I came back to a welcome back package and it really helped in remembering the syntaxes to attach them and get the rift going again. I don't think you'd be as well served just having it done for you.

Aypatea

I just came back after probably over a real life year and all the new stuff was a bit intense, but the thing that really helped me were the Society guild tasks; they were really well-designed for sort of forcing me to figure out how the current state of things works. 

I liked how, unlike achievements (which always sort of felt like they just "happened" once you did something) which feel like rewards, the guild tasks provided incentive along with guidance on what I should be doing. 

I imagine it's trickier for people who are coming back without making new characters, but for me the thing that made the re-learning easier wasn't newton or the intro, it was the Society tasks. 

Kagato

The welcome back package works well, but I think that rather than being restricted to being handed out to those who have been gone 60+ days, they should also be purchasable (maybe from Bob for a few thousand gold?)

I'd also suggest including a notecard or some other single-page item that the player can READ that maybe reminds the player of commands used or suggests help files that they should look at.

An example might be:

Congratulations on your purchase of the novice omni-pack!  Inside you will find everything you need to assist you on your adventurers... but wait a moment, some of these products might look completely foreign to you!  Here is some useful advice as to how to make use of them!

Teardrop sigil: These are linked to vials so that through the LIQUIDRIFT skill in planar, one can link a vial directly to their rift, rather than being restricted to 50 sips before having to refill (You still need to refill your rift every so often though!)  Simply ATTACH TEARDROP TO VIAL to use it, or substitute VIAL for the item ID for a specific vial in your inventory. (use 'ii vial' to get this information)

Ring enchantments:  We have included a variety of useful enchantments, to use them, simply WEAR the RING, then RUB the enchantment, for example RUB BEAUTY.  Be aware that rings can only be rubbed a maximum of 10 times in a row, then the enchantment will be lifted from the ring, but you can avoid this by recharging it at a shop, or investing in a recharge cube of your own.  To recharge, all you need is RECHARGE (enchantment) FROM (cube-id).

And so on.

Aypatea

You want to know why Newbies don't stay?

Because we're told things like this on city news boards by our leadership:

Do NOT spend the time mid-event asking for step-by-step instruction on what to do, that is not the time to distract those that have actually gone and done the studies beforehand as should be taught to any of our Guild's novices as per their training. If you do not know, that is understandable, ask. Especially between such events as the knowledge is necessary. Do not hesitate to ask, do not neglect  to do so for fear of seeming ignorant, there is NO shame and any that belittle you for the lack of  knowledge, have them speak with me and I will gladly, personally, ensure they do not do so every  again regardless of whom they are, such does nothing but harm the Engine as a whole to say nothing 

Emphasis mine. 

Xenthos

Not all orgs are the same way though.

We love our newbies.

ElrynGreythane

As someone who has forgotten more than I can remember, I'd really appreciate two main things, but realise they might be a lot of work if not crowdsourced:

1. An option to turn on functional hints that apply no matter what your level, and explain where to look for more information on the Lusternia specific systems. For example, a helpful hint on what a revolt/aetherflare means when it happens, or a hint upon drinking from a vial that doesn't have a teardrop sigil, or using an enchantment that doesn't have a regulator, or doing wares instead of portal search shops, etc.

2. A low level skill in discernment that can cast an 'identify' spell on any item you can hold that doesn't reset to another mob or room, and tells you:
a) what verbs/syntax you can use to activate it (How do I use this curio I have? What can I do with my mage staff? How do I deactivate my gem of cloaking artifact?)
b) any artifact powers that are invested in it, and what they do (ie, 'winged_sandal_celerity: move one extra room before a hasty message, WEAR to activate')

Shaddus

Aypatea said:

You want to know why Newbies don't stay?

Because we're told things like this on city news boards by our leadership:

Do NOT spend the time mid-event asking for step-by-step instruction on what to do, that is not the time to distract those that have actually gone and done the studies beforehand as should be taught to any of our Guild's novices as per their training. If you do not know, that is understandable, ask. Especially between such events as the knowledge is necessary. Do not hesitate to ask, do not neglect  to do so for fear of seeming ignorant, there is NO shame and any that belittle you for the lack of  knowledge, have them speak with me and I will gladly, personally, ensure they do not do so every  again regardless of whom they are, such does nothing but harm the Engine as a whole to say nothing 

Emphasis mine. 

I'm only partially aware of the context behind this post, but I can assure you that it was neither directed at newbies/midbies, nor was it directed at anyone who didn't actually have a chance to learn what to do in a revolt.

Bairloch

But do the newbies know that?

Deichtine

Tell newbies what to do in revolts and events. It helps a fair bit. Extra set of eyes watching shuffles is a big help.

Versalean

I'm sorry, but I really don't think it's unreasonable to tell new ones that there are good times and bad times to ask for help. Actually, it may go some way towards mitigating the frustration they would otherwise experience when asking for help in the middle of an event and not receiving it because their citymates don't have time to read CGT in the throes of group combat. And, respectfully, the emphasised part of that quote within the context of everything else in that quote really isn't that bad unless somebody's gotten that far into it, burst into tears and then logged out without reading the rest. I suspect that such a person wouldn't have lasted long anyway.

There's an argument for improving the tone, sure (good luck with that on the internet), yet, again, let's remember that this is ostensibly a high-roleplay environment. Behind even the sternest toon in Lusty there's almost certainly a person willing to help a n00b, perhaps OOCly. The type of person who understands that is the type I want us retaining.

Arkh

If you're going to limit "the type of person...you want to retain" then you better be content with the tiny population of Lusternia, because that mindset will certainly not attract a lot of people.

Versalean

As opposed to a game that attempts to attract every 'type of person'? Do those tend to do really well, @Arkh?

Xenthos

Versalean said:

I'm sorry, but I really don't think it's unreasonable to tell new ones that there are good times and bad times to ask for help. Actually, it may go some way towards mitigating the frustration they would otherwise experience when asking for help in the middle of an event and not receiving it because their citymates don't have time to read CGT in the throes of group combat. And, respectfully, the emphasised part of that quote within the context of everything else in that quote really isn't that bad unless somebody's gotten that far into it, burst into tears and then logged out without reading the rest. I suspect that such a person wouldn't have lasted long anyway.

There's an argument for improving the tone, sure (good luck with that on the internet), yet, again, let's remember that this is ostensibly a high-roleplay environment. Behind even the sternest toon in Lusty there's almost certainly a person willing to help a n00b, perhaps OOCly. The type of person who understands that is the type I want us retaining.

You do it as follows: "CT We're currently engaged in a revolt.  We would like to help, but are occupied at the moment.  Please read X for now, and we will be with you when we can."  Perhaps even with a tell directing them to use Newbie for help from people who aren't busy.

Tone matters if you want people to stick around, and I'm pretty sure that's the entire point of the complaint.

Personally, if we're in a Flares that isn't contested I like to ask people if they want to know what's going on on CT (so they can get an understanding), I'll sometimes talk about revolts when we're in a downtime (all NPCs are influenced), and if people want help during a Domoth if it's not contested I'll either help them or someone else goes back to Prime.

Just because something is happening also doesn't mean that the newbie cannot ask for assistance, because what's going on may not require all hands on deck and no newbie should be expected to know whether this is a good time to ask or not.  They should ask, and the response should be "Yes we can help" or "No we can't right now, but will when we can."  Not "Don't ask."

PS: I also have 0 idea of the context of the post (nor do I really care), but if I was a new player in the organization and similarly had no context I would definitely be offput by it.  It says "Do not bother us," followed by a generic disclaimer.  "There is no shame in asking, except for the fact that I wrote this post to shame someone for asking."  The whole thing just seems unnecessary to me.  It probably should've been handled outside of news posts.

Shaddus

the post was actually directed at someone who spends all their time at their Nexus, has been punished for being AFK a lot of times, and doesn't seem to do much else other than afk or snuggle with random elfen. They've spent very little time actually learning how to play Lusternia, and apparently had to be given basic directions several times during a revolt.

ijs

Anita

The post was mostly aimed at a player who has been around long enough, and has been taught by the poster on several occasions, and as what Shaddus said above me.

On the other hand, I skimmed the post as it was a wall-of-text, and the bolded above is eye-catching and made me do a double-take --

@Aypatea there is no problems with asking what to do mid-revolt or mid-fight. It's encouraged that you learn, how else are you going to? I'm a firm believer of learning by doing / getting stuck in over reading xyz. Yeah, sometimes it might not be the *ideal* time, but I'm pretty sure you were learning and we were responding in the revolt prior to this post (in Paavik) where we explained divert and debating to you - and you even discussed writing more with Daebach on more teaching for debating/revolts to add on to what we already have in Legion / city scrolls.

And then again, the poster wrote his wall-of-text at 4am his time, was still getting better from being sick, and angry at the person who *should know by now* what to do in revolts.

Bairloch

You seem concerned about people who are asking for help, but not realizing that you will also be catching the people who are asking to help in the same net.