The Elder Wars Mafia! Morgfyre and Malmydia Win! (Lavinya/Ushaara)

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  • I am the vigilante, with sadly no more kills, I can't defend myself with anything more than I have stated before.

    If you lynch me, you lynch me.

    Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."

    The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
    Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.


  • Fyler said: by
    So you either believe we are just in a weird spot where we can't explain things in depths, or you believe we're sketchy sketch working together against town.

    But...

    We can't both be traitors if you believe (as I do) only Fain could recruit, the time frame was too short. We can't both be soulless because the soulless don't appear to be working together (illith Vs Kethuru fight is now confirmed). 

    So. Let's just move past that.


    Why do you believe only Fain could recruit? If the Elixir power was the recruitment then the remaining traitors still have it
  • A cult usually has 1 recruiter, and we know traitor != elixer. See: Drocilla
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • Okay so reviewing and rethinking.

    N1: Kethuru and Illith fight, sensed by Othero, somebody else kills Falmiss.
      -From this we know there are at least 3 killers out there.

    N2: Xeii and Vivet die. Othero senses a Soulless target Selenity.
       -Dylara claims to have vig killed Vivet.
       -Yomoigu claims to have jailed Selenity. She saw something that felt safe, and would explain why she didn't die from a Soulless visit.
       -Again, evidence of 3 active killers. If Dylara is a vig, then there could have been 4 this night.

    N3: Ssaliss and Luce die. Soulless killed Xyl
      -Only 2 deaths this night, though we don't know exactly what stopped the other killer

    N4: Shaddus dies, killed by a Soulless.
       -Yomoigu claims to have jailed Shaddus, and that a strongman power must have been used.
          --Portius did have strongman, but his charge was used saving his life, so would mean second strongman power.
       -Why was there only 1 kill that night? Did everybody go for Shaddus? Or possibly Othero since Weiwae jailed him this night/

    N5: Breandryn dies to a Soulless. Yomoigu was jailed by Weiwae.
      -Again, only see 1 kill when we know there should be at least 2

    N6: Weiwae dies. Seems nobody was jailed.
      -Seems odd he'd jail nobody, but why would somebody lie about getting jailed?
      -Again, only 1 death?

    From what we saw on N1 there was definately 3 active scum killers, so it seems like there could have been at least 1 more death every night of the game. Considering how early we lost our doctor, it's kind of odd that we haven't seen more. If the Traitors had a choice between kill/recruit, that could explain it, but why would they bother trying to kill on n1? And if they have been recruiting on every night since, they're probably at or near majority by now and I'll refer back to my early arguments that they should just reveal.

    The fact that Yomoigu was jailed on N5, but Othero sensed a Soulless we Breandryn's killer, complicates my reasoning against him. If he couldn't be Breandryn's killer, he can't be Illith unless we're actually dealing with 3 Soulless, but if that were true, we really should have seen even more deaths. And if he's not the Soulless, than even if he was a Traitor I feel he wouldn't have made up that fact that a strongman was used to kill Shaddus. He'd know it was a Traitor that killed Shaddus, which was more confirmed by Othero, and Traitors want to hunt down Soulless as well, so lieing about that would just complicate matters.

    So now if that's the case, and we're using Portius' strongman power as a reference, than we know that first, Portius didn't do it since he was seen resisting a death. For that same reason we also know that both Ushaara, myself, and Lavinya couldn't do it since we were all seen resisting a death. Dylara and Laviyna were also both seen using day vig powers, which just doesn't line up with how Portius' power worked at all. Phoebus is pretty much confirmed through Ssaliss' Mason flip, and Selenity through what happened on N2.

    That just leaves Fyler, so think I would like to hear more explanation on why Selenity trusts her, and probably just push her to full claim whatever vague thing she's been getting at.

    I have also been entertaining the idea that Soulless had a sort of hidden power, wherein they would grow more powerful when the other died, getting another charge/option for their power move. This doesn't have any hard evidence yet, but it seems thematically appropriate. It would open up almost everybody to my suspicion again though, so would rather push on Fyler first before entertaining it more.
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    Lehki said:

    So now if that's the case, and we're using Portius' strongman power as a reference, than we know that first, Portius didn't do it since he was seen resisting a death. For that same reason we also know that both Ushaara, myself, and Lavinya couldn't do it since we were all seen resisting a death. Dylara and Laviyna were also both seen using day vig powers, which just doesn't line up with how Portius' power worked at all. 


    Eh? I don't think we can assume that any instance of this power would be canceled by living through a kill attempt. Just because that seems to be how it worked for Portius' doesn't mean someone else would have the same condition attached to theirs.
  • I am not going to reveal just to satisfy your curiosity. I've already explained the information will have no immediate benefit for the town.

    The information does not provide any evidence beyond what I and Selenity have already explained that will make you believe me any more or less than you do now. It's not a power, it cannot be proven beyond Selenity just agreeing. Again.

    If you push me for nonsensical reasons, I will call the bluff. Beyond that, I will push back on anyone who cannot explain specifically why they need the information. You know who is helped by extraneous information? Soulless and cults. 
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    Phoebus said:
    Lehki said:

    So now if that's the case, and we're using Portius' strongman power as a reference, than we know that first, Portius didn't do it since he was seen resisting a death. For that same reason we also know that both Ushaara, myself, and Lavinya couldn't do it since we were all seen resisting a death. Dylara and Laviyna were also both seen using day vig powers, which just doesn't line up with how Portius' power worked at all. 


    Eh? I don't think we can assume that any instance of this power would be canceled by living through a kill attempt. Just because that seems to be how it worked for Portius' doesn't mean someone else would have the same condition attached to theirs.
    Actually, since you've said this, it's made me suspicious of you. Seems kind of like an attempt to slip yourself in as "I definitely couldn't have been the killer because I lived through a lynch once," which makes so little sense that I'm having trouble believing it was a legitimate train of thought.
  • Phoebus said:
    Phoebus said:
    Lehki said:

    So now if that's the case, and we're using Portius' strongman power as a reference, than we know that first, Portius didn't do it since he was seen resisting a death. For that same reason we also know that both Ushaara, myself, and Lavinya couldn't do it since we were all seen resisting a death. Dylara and Laviyna were also both seen using day vig powers, which just doesn't line up with how Portius' power worked at all. 


    Eh? I don't think we can assume that any instance of this power would be canceled by living through a kill attempt. Just because that seems to be how it worked for Portius' doesn't mean someone else would have the same condition attached to theirs.
    Actually, since you've said this, it's made me suspicious of you. Seems kind of like an attempt to slip yourself in as "I definitely couldn't have been the killer because I lived through a lynch once," which makes so little sense that I'm having trouble believing it was a legitimate train of thought.
    Is it really such a logical leap to think if one Soulless is given"1-shot, strongman OR death resist, lose it if you don't kill" that the other isn't going to be given some form of "strongman AND death resist"? If he was going to make their powers so similar already why make one just objectively better? If we were seeing evidence of a completely different power set I wouldn't be drawing on Portius' flip as much. And yeah I'm making kind of an assumption, but you have to make one somewhere to figure this all out. 

    That whole train of thought was following from if Yomoigu is not Illith and is telling the truth about Shaddus being strongmaned. And changed my mind to consider that due to Breandryn dieing to Soulless on the night Yomoigu was jailed. 

     I was hoping veering targets would stir up more discussion and opinions but aside from Phoebus now looking at me, seems not. We got 2 days left to vote, and if nobody else wants to pursue Fyler, whom I still don't believe, then I'll veer back.

    I still can't reconcile the Soulless killing Breandryn when Yomoigu was jailed, so in that case I'll have to agree with him about Dylara. Strongman+Dayvig is slightly more palatable thought to me.

    Vote: Dylara
  • Giving a soulless a public kill option seems odd. Wouldn't Soulless want to kill town, and wouldn't killing a townie where everyone could see it be counterintuitive to the soulless's goal of...not being suspicious?

    As an aside, I think trying to figure out what Silvanus would or would not do as far as powers go is hilariously pointless. He seems to have designed the roles with 1 thing in mind: "How funny will it be for me to watch?"
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • God, I wish my powers were as cool as youre making them out to be.

    Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."

    The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
    Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.


  • Yeah dayvig could be a tricky power for SK to pull off without drawing suspicion, but in the case Ushaara really is the perfect target for it. If she did flip town nobody would really blame Dylara for that.
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    I'm really torn about where we go from here. I think Yomoigu's claim is sketchy. I also think Lehki is coming out very strong which could be a distraction from who he actually is. I really don't know which way to go. I can buy Dylara as scum hiding behind a vig claim, possibly. My gut has let me down and now I am super nervous about being decisive. 



  • I came out strong because we've lost most of our talkative people and knew discussion was gong to be slow today. 
  • im leaning Lehki because I find the explanation as to why he doesn't believe me severely lacking. It feels like he's just throwing chum in the water to see what it stirs up. Pressing people to reveal information without knowing if that information is even valuable doesn't help the town progress. So if he's arguing he's trying to help the town/conversation progress, his actions don't really line up with that...or at least in a productive way. 

    I don't think he's cult, though, because his comment about the elixer doesn't make a lot of sense. 

    And, personally, I find Dylara to be pretty not suspicious. She lays low in literally every game, it's her personality. She's never loud, pushy, aggressive, etc. so criticisms of her flying under the radar don't make much sense in context. So far she's said she has a day vig, so people said prove it, so she did. 
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • But I'm not suspicious enough to vote tbh. I'm stuck
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • @Selenity I have given you three full days. Please defend your accusation or I'm going to have to assume that you are just stalling for time 
  • SelenitySelenity My first MC to stay in Serenwilde
    Yomoigu said:
    Wanted to get that previous message off just in case I was ninja'd.

    Next, @Selenity : I noticed yesterday that you ignored my refutation of your accusation, so since you don't want to repost it now, I'll do it for you:

    I actually explained this before!

    Let's start with the following of what you said, which I believe.

    1. You can jail people
    2. You can sense exco-whatever energy
    These are both things I believe. Yay belief.

    However, it is also true that Weiwae is Roark (confirmed not-Soulless and possibly Town if there's no conversions going on) thanks to Luce (rip). Why would town have two jailers, where one can sense exco-whatever energy, and the other cannot?

    It's simple: they wouldn't.

    Why would Soulless need to sense exco-whatever energy?

    Again, it's simple: they wouldn't. Unless Silvanus made it that way for some reason. Barring that, I'm going to say no.

    So that leaves one possibility... a Traitor.

    Now, why would a Traitor go after me after I pushed two really bad lynches (and I still can't believe I'm that much of a fail cake). Well, let's say the Traitor's ability is to sap exco-whatever energy from a Soulless. You jail them to contain them in that field and then you or another traitor can either kill them or take that energy for yourself to convert others the same night or the next night, possibly.

    You would know I'm not a Traitor already, if you are one, because the Traitors can communicate. What you wouldn't know is if I was a Soulless or not. Hence the targeting. "Two town lynches, not a Traitor? Either Selenity is a sucky player or Soulless... let's find out!"

    Unfortunately for everyone I'm just a really sucky player. Although I did catch Portius. Doesn't make up for the failed lynch trains.

    You failed to get the exco-whatever from me. If you positioned yourself as an exco-sensing town jailer and confirmed me to be town at least from night two - and I still am town - you figured it's an easy way to get on my side at least. You've seen me say over and over Fyler and Weiwae are town, if I'm pushing for your protection too, then you might actually make it through all this.

    But no, Yomoigu. I am rather certain you are not town.
    And my response:
    ... Selenity, I'm sorry but that's a terrible argument. Why do Weiwae and I not have identical powers? Because no two players in this game have identical powers. we've seen half of the game flip so far, and while there may be variations on a theme nobody has matched. Further, your theory on how the traitors work is ridiculously convoluted. They need to both kill the Soulless and outnumber the elders, but to do that they first need to FIND a Soulless, leech their essence, use said essence to get new recruits, then presumably keep the Soulless alive to continue gathering exco energy? It just doesn't work. 

    Since you're demanding a response and upset that it took three days...

    Why do Weiwae and Yomoigu not have identical powers? - While you are correct nobody has matched, nobody has had the slight variation you claim to have from Weiwae. It does not make sense to me that you would be what you claim to be. I don't see it working. In fact, I'm inclined to think it's a bluff based off what you role actually is, which I've outlined.

    Oh, right.

    Theory being convoluted... It's not really if Night 1 is trap/harvest the Soulless, with Night 2 being shoving the energy into someone else to convert them. And it could indeed work. Would be a strange mechanic. But Silvanus made Soulless Sense, so, let's not put that beyond him.

    ---

    Stalling for time.

    You think I'm stalling for time?

    Let's see who's voted.
    <br>Dylara - Yomoigu, Lehki (2)<br>Yomoigu - SELENITY, Lavinya (2)<br><br>5 to lynch<br>


    If I was stalling, I would not have voted. My instincts say Dylara's fine. I don't trust you, so my vote is staying there. I don't trust Lehki or Lavinya either. But at least I voted.

    Prod someone more fruitful, I'm not going on the Dylara caboose. There are other people in the game who haven't voted.
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    I feel a little bit stuck. I make most of my decisions based on watching conversations, so when there's a slow day I just kinda feel like "uhhhhh..."

    At this point I'm between Lehki and Yomoigu, but I don't know. And, as always, Ushaara, but I've kind of given up on ever getting anyone to kill him, even though he literally was just revived by means that are only possible with heavy use of the forbidden elixir, lol.
  • Theory being convoluted... It's not really if Night 1 is trap/harvest the Soulless, with Night 2 being shoving the energy into someone else to convert them. And it could indeed work. Would be a strange mechanic. But Silvanus made Soulless Sense, so, let's not put that beyond him

    This is internally inconsistent with your own argument! You were targeted by me on night 2... Are you saying that I converted you? And that's ignoring the incredible unlikelihood of actually FINDING a Soulless in the first place. Also, did I convert Vivet the same night? Because if I had to find a soulless in order to convert further cultists, night 2 is the only time she could have been recruited.
  • SelenitySelenity My first MC to stay in Serenwilde
    Yomoigu said:
    Theory being convoluted... It's not really if Night 1 is trap/harvest the Soulless, with Night 2 being shoving the energy into someone else to convert them. And it could indeed work. Would be a strange mechanic. But Silvanus made Soulless Sense, so, let's not put that beyond him

    This is internally inconsistent with your own argument! You were targeted by me on night 2... Are you saying that I converted you? And that's ignoring the incredible unlikelihood of actually FINDING a Soulless in the first place. Also, did I convert Vivet the same night? Because if I had to find a soulless in order to convert further cultists, night 2 is the only time she could have been recruited.
    1. I was not converted at all, have been team Elders this whole time
    2. She might have started the game a traitor, I don't know

    Regardless, I'm not budging on my position, because you still feel like you're not Town to me. Everyone has seen your arguments and mine at this point.

    Our efforts would be better spent trying to get people to vote something.

    On that note... come on, guys. You pointed out to me I can't beat myself up over my crappy picks previously and need to pick something. Pick people, too.

    I'm looking at you, @Fyler, @Ushaara, @Phoebus. I can be convinced to go after a different target, but you need to convince me, and the first way to do that is to vote for somebody. Or hey, don't convince me and vote for Yomo also. Either way I'm attentive.
  • Don't look at me, I've helped lynch half the town. 
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • Well we gotta lynch somebody. Do not want a no lynch at this point. I'm still inclined more towards Dylara but I'll switch my vote again back to Yomoigu if that's what it takes to move forward.  Starting my work shift now but hopefully the day doesn't end before my break.
  • vote: Yomoigu

    My gut says Lehki, and since that's apparently always wrong, let's go the other way.
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • Rude :(

    I'm willing to jump off my Dylara suspicion and go for Lehki since the only thing that stopped me from putting him on my main suspect list was fluff.

    Unvote
    Vote Lehki
  • SelenitySelenity My first MC to stay in Serenwilde
    Dylara - Lehki (1)<br>Lehki - Yomoigu (1)<br>Yomoigu - Selenity, Lavinya, Fyler (3)<br><br>5 to lynch

  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    Ok, I think I've decided what I'm doing today. I don't really trust Yomoigu much at this point, but in the case of a mislynch between him and Lehki, losing Lehki would hurt less. Might be off-base, but I feel pretty uncertain of where to go today, and that suspicious thing from Lehki earlier really did bug me. So I'll point my vote this way and see what happens.

    Vote: Lehki
  • SelenitySelenity My first MC to stay in Serenwilde
    Phoebus, you have a good point. Between Lehki and Yomoigu (neither which I believe are town), the one with less repercussions if found to be town is indeed Lehki.

    Unvote.
    Vote: Lehki.

    Dylara - Lehki (1)<br>Lehki - Yomoigu, Phoebus, Selenity (3)<br>Yomoigu - Lavinya, Fyler (2)<br><br>5 to lynch

    @Ushaara where you at.
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Sorry all, I've had a crazy week and haven't had much time to keep up with the thread.

    I vacillate back and forth on believing whether Dylara is a vigilante or not. When she initially claimed it, that she chose to kill Vivet over me I found to be astounding. Sure, I wouldn't have died due to my Third Circle protection, but since it's not the play I would have made as the vigilante, I struggle to comprehend a townie motivation to go for Vivet, given the information in play at the time. IThe following day, did then relax into the thinking that not everyone plays the same way, and vigilante could be a goer.

    But I am also a bit wary of the possibility that Breandryn may have given her the daykill power she demonstrated. I was thinking that Breandryn would have given an item to Weiwae as jailer, but nothing seems to indicate that in his flip. IIRC Breandryn said the power she managed to distribute was a daypower, so if a Soulless were to receive an additional power, daykill is a possibility? Looking back, how she phrased the 'Town can decide what to do with me later' comment after she did send the command to kill me is also a bit strange, but that's a fairly flimsy scrap to be presenting.

    So again, nothing concrete and am only relying on vague suspicions which have already been proven wrong, so not sure if I want to vote for her yet or not.

    Re: Yomo - I'm really not sure and a lot of it comes down to whatever Illith's power might be? I could see it being an immunity to jailing, since she's a Leviathan. Othero's information also seems pretty damning.

    But on the other hand I do not grasp why Illith would be jailing people, and he did reveal that there was a strongman in play before Portius' flip confirmed it. Not sure if the strongman information would be common to all Soulless rolesheets, since it did seem connected to Portius' Almighty power?

    Also, if we do lynch him and we're wrong, we also potentially lose our only means of confirming who is/isn't a Traitor? Though then there's the weirdness of his claim and the fact that he gets taken out of the game if he doesn't find one, so he's a riddle wrapped up in an enigma to me.

    Why are people mentioning Lehki as suspicious now? Did I miss something specific?
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Oh my god, about 5 posts just came in. Lemme review.
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    Yeah, where's Ush at? I said I was suspicious of him again and didn't get an immediate response about it, he must not be here! :p
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