Mystic Warrior Racial Bonuses

Neftarys

Currently, irrespective of class, "Elfen with the Stag specialisation gain a 1/10 bonus to magic and lightning damage," while "Elfen with the Moon specialisation gain a 1/10 bonus to both magic and divinus damage."

This is true not only of Hartstone Druids and Moondancers, but also of warriors who take these skills to become Elfen Lords/Ladies. Similar bonuses are given to similar racial specializations in other orgs.

To be honest - although I'll admit I'm a new player - these bonuses don't seem nearly so useful to warriors, and I know that before the Overhaul warriors were affected differently by taking these skillsets than their Wiccan, Druid, Mage and Guardian counterparts were. For this reason, it seems to me that they ought to be given some other, more appropriate bonus. My suggestion would be that they receive the igasho/krokani/orclach/dwarf/tae'dae weapon bonuses for their respective weapon specializations.

Thoughts?

Deichtine

I honestly cant even see what the racial weapon bonus does? igasho/krokani/orclach/dwarf/tae'dae  stuff

Falaeron

They add ~7% to base damage (which also means ~7% more bleeding/bruising). Not sure if it increases speed or anything else.

Aeldra

Well, that depends on how you are planning to use these skillsets. If you pick moon totem then you benefit exactly as much from it as a wiccan would, for our only damage abilities come from the Moon totem skillset and it exactly buffs these two (moonfire (50% fire, 50% divinus) / moonburst ( 100% magic ) ), which you can use for your bashing / pk damage sources like wiccans can. Of course, unlike wiccans and druids, you have other sources of raw damage, but I wouldn't toss it aside that easily, especially on the cause of moonfire, which is a rather powerful bashing / pvp damage ability.

I may suspect that the buff for stag users is not as big, though probably still noticeable. That being said, I'm not opposed to giving warriors a different buff here, but I did want to point out that these buffs are not as useless to you as you may think they are at the moment.

Aside of that, especially with moon, weapons enhanced with divinus damage seemed to be rather popular for a while at least amongst warriors, if that still is true, moon totem would further help elfen warriors in maxing out their divinus damage bonus.

Breandryn

Poor trackers don't even get considered in the discussion :P

Saran

Aeldra said:

Well, that depends on how you are planning to use these skillsets. If you pick moon totem then you benefit exactly as much from it as a wiccan would, for our only damage abilities come from the Moon totem skillset and it exactly buffs these two (moonfire (50% fire, 50% divinus) / moonburst ( 100% magic ) ), which you can use for your bashing / pk damage sources like wiccans can. Of course, unlike wiccans and druids, you have other sources of raw damage, but I wouldn't toss it aside that easily, especially on the cause of moonfire, which is a rather powerful bashing / pvp damage ability.

I may suspect that the buff for stag users is not as big, though probably still noticeable. That being said, I'm not opposed to giving warriors a different buff here, but I did want to point out that these buffs are not as useless to you as you may think they are at the moment.

Aside of that, especially with moon, weapons enhanced with divinus damage seemed to be rather popular for a while at least amongst warriors, if that still is true, moon totem would further help elfen warriors in maxing out their divinus damage bonus.

Don't all the wiccan totems bashing attacks specifically got a buff if you're wielding your nature talisman? Which seems like a nicer way of putting "warriors get weaker versions" cause it's more likely balanced against Wiccans using the moon attacks and... don't warriors get weapon auras that buff their weapons?

Karlach

I'm not even sure what the weapon auras of Drawdown and Nightkiss do these days.

Those racials aren't a commune only thing, you see damage bonuses across org races. I guess you'd either have to change all of them, which gives them a better version of the weapon races bonus as it would instead affect all weapons, or leave them as they are.

And as someone pointed out, if you're a tracker, it's a raw deal.

Dhani

I know the old ones of Drawdown and Nightkiss used to give +5 on all weapon stats for one handed, and +10 for two handed except in speed which was still +5. But since weapon stats were removed, no idea what they do anymore.

Deichtine

I tested drawdown and it seems to give about 20-30 more damage per combo, I just tested it with bonecrusher so it was changing my combo from 900 to 925ish.

There really should be an envoy report through for nightkiss/drawdown to move it to the new system or with a new idea. I know xenthos was talking about it.

Deichtine

I mean the racial bonuses do seem more geared towards druids/wiccans than warriors.

So moon/night wiccans get a boost to their main damage attacks, same with Viscanti guardians etc

Synkarin

I think we need to move away from the weapon auras and totem specs > ritual specs. 

I don't think warriors need it anyway.

Deichtine

Synkarin said:

I think we need to move away from the weapon auras and totem specs > ritual specs. 

I don't think warriors need it anyway.

Making drawdown/nightkiss give a useful buff to warriors wouldn't make them better than the other specs.  I mean Gaudi and Hallifax get a 1/6 damage conversion which is a nice buff but isn't too crazy.

Making drawdown/nightkiss give a benefit on a similar level to that would be fine. 

Although I said it before it's not just moon/night that need something for warriors. Like I think all the warrior tertiaries should be fairly equal with buffs.

For warriors there's a big difference in the power level of each tert.

Stag gets passive healing, and a 4 balance buff which is huge.

Tracking get a conditional balance buff, passive hindrance and traps.

Necromancy dosn't seem to have anything I'd use other than Lich.

Etc

I mean for most warriors tracking is better than their ritual/totem version even if you ignore traps.

Saran

@Veyils and for moon... It's dependent on phase but you get shine which can give damage and/or health, you control harvest for extra xp, full, and you get two extra damage attacks with no crossover. (sure weaker, but it gives more options than some people have)


The majority of warriors don't get those extra attacks. Even with a partial conversion, it's only partial while Moon/Night gives you your damage switched to a different type. (If the difference between them with and without a talisman is significant there are potential ways to get one) This means if your target is resistant to your weapons you can choose a completely different damage type, the drawdown aura giving you equilibrium, in theory, gives you a benefit in that case.

Deichtine

Saran said:

@Veyils and for moon... It's dependent on phase but you get shine which can give damage and/or health, you control harvest for extra xp, full, and you get two extra damage attacks with no crossover. (sure weaker, but it gives more options than some people have)


The majority of warriors don't get those extra attacks. Even with a partial conversion, it's only partial while Moon/Night gives you your damage switched to a different type. (If the difference between them with and without a talisman is significant there are potential ways to get one) This means if your target is resistant to your weapons you can choose a completely different damage type, the drawdown aura giving you equilibrium, in theory, gives you a benefit in that case.

I dont think someone elses talisman works, It may do but the file says "The damage is increased if you are wielding your talisman."

Nightkiss isn't worth it for pvp damage for warriors at all. It may be worth it on mobs but I dont know, its significantly slower than a warrior attack and it does somewhat similar damage to people so i'd be dubious if nightkiss/moonfire are better than warrior attacks but I honestly have no idea for bashing.

I'm not that familiar with all the moon stuff what are you referring to with moon giving partial attacks?

Luce

Referring to the previously mentioned rituals versions that give a 1/6th damage conversion. ie: Aeonics Pureblades with no conversion runes deal 5/6ths of their weapon damage as cutting and 1/6th as electric

Enyalida

Also FYI, Night's passive healing is dramatically better than Stag's. Stag totem isn't really a useful effect in most scenarios for a warrior. The main thing stag warriors get is the speed bonus, which is nice but doesn't tend (in my experience) to lure many warriors to it. Most Seren totem warriors pick Moon. 

Saran

Veyils said:

Saran said:

@Veyils and for moon... It's dependent on phase but you get shine which can give damage and/or health, you control harvest for extra xp, full, and you get two extra damage attacks with no crossover. (sure weaker, but it gives more options than some people have)


The majority of warriors don't get those extra attacks. Even with a partial conversion, it's only partial while Moon/Night gives you your damage switched to a different type. (If the difference between them with and without a talisman is significant there are potential ways to get one) This means if your target is resistant to your weapons you can choose a completely different damage type, the drawdown aura giving you equilibrium, in theory, gives you a benefit in that case.

I dont think someone elses talisman works, It may do but the file says "The damage is increased if you are wielding your talisman."

Nightkiss isn't worth it for pvp damage for warriors at all. It may be worth it on mobs but I dont know, its significantly slower than a warrior attack and it does somewhat similar damage to people so i'd be dubious if nightkiss/moonfire are better than warrior attacks but I honestly have no idea for bashing.

I'm not that familiar with all the moon stuff what are you referring to with moon giving partial attacks?

From memory, I tried using my cudgel in place of an athame when I was a MD last and had no issues with any abilities, I'm fairly sure I also checked out the drawdown stuff to make sure there was no difference. My assumption is that, most likely, if you temporarily change to either druid or wiccan, get a talisman (fairly low in the skill) and then change back while using credits to make the talisman permanent then you'll have a talisman that belongs to you and potentially fulfils the criteria for the extra damage, it's not for everyone because of the credits required but it's possible.

For the next sentence, people pay 275 credits for access to an attack of a different damage type to what they have that's only useful on mobs. It comes down to resistances most likely, but I'd expect that if you're going up against something that's heavily resistant to your weapon and extremely weak to the Moon attacks then it's better for you to use the Moon attacks.

And Moon doesn't give partial attacks, that's the benefit. If your target is resistant to cutting and weak to electricity as a Sentinel then woo they're only weak to a sixth of your damage and resistant to the rest. A Serenguard facing an enemy weak to magic but resistant to cutting doesn't have to do any cutting damage.


EDIT: Oh forgot to add, a moon/night user also has covens, if you have squads in combat then you can turn your coven into a squad too which means you get a boost to the xp buff squads give.

Maligorn

I disagree that Stag warriors are less than Moon ones, simply because they have a 2 balance bonus just by virtue of stagform and a facepaint, and ALs and BCs could potentially make great use of gore.

Demartel

Enyalida said:

Also FYI, Night's passive healing is dramatically better than Stag's. Stag totem isn't really a useful effect in most scenarios for a warrior. The main thing stag warriors get is the speed bonus, which is nice but doesn't tend (in my experience) to lure many warriors to it. Most Seren totem warriors pick Moon. 

Stag is amazing for warrior, far so more than Moon. Maybe in the old system moon was better, but Stag is leaps ahead of it now. The balance increase pushing you to levels of hitting under 3 seconds is fantastic. The instakill with Gore.  Cutting Buff for AL/PB/BM. Ability to ignore dominates. Passive afflictions via Curse, which is better IMHO than Moon's Dark. Stag Totem is also very useful for warrior in situations where you get swarmed. There is very little reason for a warrior to pick Moon over Stag, other than the belief that they might be getting something out of Moon Aura, and the Raze/Aeon mechanic - which no longer exists since Wane is changed AFAIK.

Karlach

Does Dark still have that annoying as hell defence stripper?

Deichtine

Yep moon has a passive defence stripper 

Deichtine

Maligorn said:

I disagree that Stag warriors are less than Moon ones, simply because they have a 2 balance bonus just by virtue of stagform and a facepaint, and ALs and BCs could potentially make great use of gore.

They get 4 if they are ok with a 2 equi malus which is only really an issue if your hitting acrobatic users but the extra balance buff may just make up for it anyway.

I mean in terms of best terts for warriors Stag/tracking seem to be the best overall. Probally Necromancy as the worst if we are ranking them. 

Demartel

Veyils said:

Maligorn said:

I disagree that Stag warriors are less than Moon ones, simply because they have a 2 balance bonus just by virtue of stagform and a facepaint, and ALs and BCs could potentially make great use of gore.

They get 4 is they are ok with a 2 equi malus which is only really an issue if your hitting acrobatic users but the extra balance buff may just make up for it anyway.

I mean in terms of best terts for warriors Stag/tracking seem to be the best overall. Probally Necromancy as the worst if we are ranking them. 

You can easily eliminate that EQ penalty, I did all the time.

Karlach

I feel like certain aspects of skillsets are being downplayed here. Moon and Night still offer strong utility and defensive capabilities, whereas Stag offers a quick way to up your balance for people without alternative means to do so.

The only one in the lurch is Crow, and this is an entirely different (and in no way new) topic to the OP's discussion.

Also did deathmark stop reducing the effect of wound curing? Because that makes Deathweapon in Necromancy seem rather not useless at all.

Deichtine

I'm 99% sure necromancy dosnt slow wound curing at all.

Deichtine

But yea crow and necromancy dont offer much for warriors at all, a bit of utility and such.

Demartel

Stag offers far more than just 'balance' is my point. Especially for warriors. Moon was only good because of weapon stats and the moon aura + elfen lord from pre-overhaul days. It had its utility niche with moonbeam, resurgem, and full, but those don't compare to the new system and Stag's boosts to warrior in multiple fields.

Karlach

Huh. Must have lost it during the overhaul, no idea why. I remember well the long frustration by several UG envoys to make DW useful.

Maligorn

Necromancy warriors took a bit hit with the essential removal of Ectoplasm.

Deichtine

I mean ignoring stag if you compare the boosts a tracker gets to a few warrior terts the tracker comes out a fair bit on top as well with the balance buffs and passive hinder which is a pretty big thing for warriors to have.

Siam

Demartel said:

Enyalida said:

Also FYI, Night's passive healing is dramatically better than Stag's. Stag totem isn't really a useful effect in most scenarios for a warrior. The main thing stag warriors get is the speed bonus, which is nice but doesn't tend (in my experience) to lure many warriors to it. Most Seren totem warriors pick Moon. 

Stag is amazing for warrior, far so more than Moon. Maybe in the old system moon was better, but Stag is leaps ahead of it now. The balance increase pushing you to levels of hitting under 3 seconds is fantastic. The instakill with Gore.  Cutting Buff for AL/PB/BM. Ability to ignore dominates. Passive afflictions via Curse, which is better IMHO than Moon's Dark. Stag Totem is also very useful for warrior in situations where you get swarmed. There is very little reason for a warrior to pick Moon over Stag, other than the belief that they might be getting something out of Moon Aura, and the Raze/Aeon mechanic - which no longer exists since Wane is changed AFAIK.

Thank you @Demartel for telling the truth and not downplaying Stag.