Newton is probably a better starting point, tbh. After the Kiakoda babies, Newton is where they SHOULD be going, then the Collegium, then (if we're doing pure quests) Bard/scholar/pilgrims and the Tidal flats, then Irshaw and most villages, then Stewart manor and other combat-required village quests, and I'm not sure from there.
@Weiwae by lore i mean you need to pay attention to the game in a specific way to know what to do next and it's hard to find that information because you don't know where to look!
for example the skein of fine thread and the hidden library (items to start the gnome quest) - the bread crumbs are there but a new player is NOT going to know chanterelle is a tailor. The room descript indicates that but not in a definite way.
to teach this -
when the mob runs out of bait - the player will have to manufacture some.
Mob mentions that the penguins like to hide bait in X. HINTs tell player how to look for hidden objects.
Player finds bait, gives it to peguin. peguin spits it out. HINTS tells player to PROBE BAIT.
Player sees that bait is unprocessed in some way from the bait descript. HINT: may Mob X knows how to deal with this.
Player gives it to mob X mob X says Hey! you need to find a drying rack or a hot place to dry it. or to find a hidden location. HINT: Try asking the other Mobs for <KEYWORD> maybe they can help!
Player wanders around paying attention to the game. tries, pushing, probing, dropping and giving everything to all the mobs.
Player completes quest. Player knows how to do lusternian quests and where to go next should they want to do more quests.
This eases new players into an aspect of the game that's usually a little difficult to get into.
You've already have a quest tracking system. this suggestion will put it to good use!
I might just be really dumb, but I tried getting that kiakodababies quest as a newbie and I couldn't get the quest added to my quest log and eventually gave up.
@Weiwae Hi! Of course I'll try to explain further. In the intro I came through on, there was a figure - a denizen but nonetheless - that I was interacting with, that was speaking to me and guiding me - and the introduce yourself prompt was automatic. I did actually rub the lamp a few times, and click a few questions to see which ones were given, and not once did I see a hint about introducing myself. Putting myself in the shoes of a true newbie, and remember I am quite new myself, I missed the interaction. With the Fates, I was pulled in - I had a companion, someone to lean on and turn to. It was a mob, but it was still a person and that was comforting in a small way. I was being led, not left.
With this new intro, as I say, there was a couple of paragraphs about "yay text-games; oh btw this is Lusternia and people like it", then I learned to hit something, and then whambam off I pop. I'm left to cycle through questions by myself - and this isn't optional. In the last intro I already knew how to move around and how to communicate, so I could if I wanted go straight to my org. Now, I will have to stand there, rubbing and asking question after question until I find the one I need - while undoubtedly, people are greeting and directing to scrolls on the org aethers which could get overwhelming.
Why should our new players have to work so hard? There was nothing wrong with the pulling along, the teaching of lore, the learning of so many useful basics, that the previous intro had.
I hope this helps - my sentiments are much the same as many of the other comments
(Glomdoring): Viravain says, "Edith."
(Glomdoring): Viravain says, "Learning begins with the self. I charge you to preach My name." Raucous corvine laughter sounds out from the canopies of the surrounding forest, echoing eerily through the Wyrden Wood. *baptized*
I miss the older intro where the fate guides helped us 'remember' about ourselves, we learned about walking, looking, probing, packs (and flame sigils!), map and hunting and healing via the shadow, as well as more about the lore of Lusternia and actually entering the portal. It covered basics, AND we could speedup or end journey. A slight tweaking was probably all it ever needed.
@Weiwae I wasn't very coherent in my last post re races. Since it's not a visible option during character creation (at least via the web client, I haven't tested using my client), and I get the reason for having the newbie wait - at the very least an OOC Hint/blurb during the intro letting them know that they -will- get to select their race and can even reincarnate for a time without limit to test them out will probably reassure those who are eager for race and provide good info.
CONFIG MAPVIEW ON and CONFIG PROMPT STATS should be the default config.
I had a friend from Aetolia come check out the game because I'd been chatting happy about it, and his biggest reaction from the intro was "But what about races? The web client shows all these cool races..."
That may be something existing MUDders focus on more over new players - and I don't see an issue with having two different versions of the intro, one for brand new people who are learning what a text mud is, and one for, say, a convert from Dragonrealms or DIKU MUDs who wants to learn what IRE games are about (internal IRE converts aren't really the prime goal, I imagine). MUDs are a very small demographic and what keeps them afloat (aside from the die-hards for each game) is the slow trickle of new lifeblood matched with the cannibalization of players from other games. Catering to both types seems wise for growth.
I know Matt mentioned over on mudconnector a few years ago (when the Imperian new intros were being put in) that they were playtesting against focus groups and that IRE does do analytics to gauge who's genuinely new and what trends well with them. It seems their numbers are suggesting that most of the new players are genuinely new to MUDs, but I would imagine that sort of information is tricky to analyze (fake emails during signup, people trying to hide alts, imprecise methods of determining who is genuinely new).
I think that it's very important to allow people to select their race during character creation. I didn't like that you had to be a human for the last intro, either. It feels like you missed something or made a mistake when you suddenly realize you're a human, but you wanted your character to be one of the cooler things you saw on the website instead! It feels like you aren't really you yet, and you're stuck waiting for the opportunity to even begin to play as the character you had in mind.
How can it be more of a difficult decision than city or guild selection, something you are not allowed to wait on at all? Honestly, I'd wager that the vast majority of people know what race they want to be quicker than what org they want to join, and having to wait for it feels like something is missing. And you do have a free reincarnation if you change your mind. I used mine, when I was new, and it was just another fun part of my character changing. Everyone defaulting to human is...kinda weird.
Especially weird in light of the fact that humans aren't even native to Lusternia. Not even in the twisty, odd way Viscanti and Faelings are.
EDIT: Actually, would it be possible to have the default determined by guild choice? So if you picked Aeromancer it'd default to Trill, Researchers start as Lucidians, Serenguard as Elfen, and Illuminati, Paladin, and Harbingers as Dracnari, Merian, and Faeling, respectively. (subject, obviously, to tweaking)
More than one reincarnation now, @Phoebus - newbies can freely reincarnate as much as they like while a newbie. So it makes even LESS sense to not let them choose race.
More than one reincarnation now, @Phoebus - newbies can freely reincarnate as much as they like while a newbie. So it makes even LESS sense to not let them choose race.
Oh, really? Man, newbies get so many freebies these days!
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I miss the older intro where the fate guides helped us 'remember' about ourselves, we learned about walking, looking, probing, packs (and flame sigils!), map and hunting and healing via the shadow, as well as more about the lore of Lusternia and actually entering the portal. It covered basics, AND we could speedup or end journey. A slight tweaking was probably all it ever needed.
+1 for bringing back the old, useful intro.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Reading the new comments that touch on the subject of choosing your race, I realise I wanted to say something else about that, that I forgot to include in my reply comment.
@Weiwae you said that newbies get confused, and can't really understand the mechanics and benefits that each race can provide until later in the game. I think more credit should be given to the players. When choosing a city/commune and a guild, there is so much more information to read and take into consideration than there is with your race. Joining an org is also much more lingering - if you join an org and later decide to leave, that is a decision noticed by many. Changing your race? Pretty inconspicuous, especially with newbies. Having the option to read about the races during the intro is something I have seen in other games, and I had no issues with it. (Personally, I also always look through the website of a game first, and so have already read about races and orgs)
I'm somewhat echoing @Phoebus here. The choosing of a race is probably the first thing a player has decided. It's the very basic definition of your character - how you will look, act, interact with others; it's something that I think the vast majority will think about first - how they look and what they are.
And finally to just repeat what @Lavinya said also, there are no restrictions on reincarnating when you are below a certain level (I think 21 or 30?), so even if there is regret on the race chosen, it can be fixed. Does it really change anything, or benefit the player by making them wait so long until they can define one of the most basic components of their gameplay and characterization?
(Glomdoring): Viravain says, "Edith."
(Glomdoring): Viravain says, "Learning begins with the self. I charge you to preach My name." Raucous corvine laughter sounds out from the canopies of the surrounding forest, echoing eerily through the Wyrden Wood. *baptized*
It would be very slightly better if instead of human you at least got your org race (halli's can flip a coin :P), you've already picked your org before you enter the intro.
Maybe even have a few lines in the intro referencing it?
like...
Serenwilde... the verdant forest of the north. Joyous as the spring, bold as the summer, solemn as the autumn, furious as the winter. Bearing the scars of countless battles, fought in the defence of this first and last bastion of nature both against the soulless and the ever encroaching "civilisation".
The loving and vengeful Moon... The wise and watchful White Hart... Fae spirits of all forms... people of all races. All forming the commune that has stood for a millenia, ever watched over by the Elfen who were the first to make their home in the shelter of the forest.
Elfen... as you consider them, snatches of memory come to you. Ellindel and Glinshari, the hearthmates who were the first Wiccan and Druid, Farella who condemned outsiders to death for the destruction they brought on the land and Rhoswen who sought to offer them redemption.
Your mind turning back to the task ahead of you, you notice your form becoming more defined, taking on the shape of an elfen.
The question lingers in your mind "Is your soul truly Elfen, or are you perhaps one of the other wondrous races from your hazy memories?", but something in the distance demands your attention and you push your thoughts to the side for now.
[HINT] For now, your race has been set to Elfen which is an option well suited to the classes Serenwilde offers. This is something you will be able to change easily if you want to.
Oh, also I don't know if it has it, but could the lamp have responses to "ask lamp about". It'd be cool, like ask lamp about races or ask lamp about ellindel. The menu interface for it was a bit frustrating to me.
As a side note, somewhat related to the new intro - Can we at least make GUILD RACES LIST viewable to people of the COL or NOV rank? Apparently it's a first guild rank power and kind of defeats the purpose if the new people who need to figure out race can't see it.
Could we maybe update the help file to explain that they start as Human now and that they have to go and reincarnate into a different race if they want to?
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Or just reverse the bad decision to take away the choice of race before the intro.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Just spitballing here, but I'm decently certain all the admin have heard this complaint/criticism and are working on it or have their hands tied atm, because changing the Intro without corporate approval is supposedly really problematic. Probably should stop beating the dead horse :P
After another go through the intro, again.... The heavy emphasis on how it's so FREE TO PLAY FOREVER and then repeated prompts about a free, fabulous gift make me feel like I'm being sold a timeshare.
In the interim, perhaps a landmark for the Cave can be added? You need to walk there to reincarnate, which isn't something a newb's going to know how to do. Heck, I had to wander around a while without ascend + down exits
Another thing I noticed, this intro doesn't give the stock standard journal we all take for granted. Could this be added into the lamp as a prompt or just a drop off the orc?
Had an after thought when I posted. Perhaps a quest can be made that would solve a lot of the issues being mentioned? The lamp prompt "You speak of quests." can then give them a quest of visit the Portal of Fate, telling them how to reach it with Hints and such. Upon arrival the lamp gifts them a journal, telling them the spiel of how to keep their adventures within it. The next lamp prompt could be races and how to reincarnate while they're still there. Seems win-win but taking criticisms.
A couple changes have been made to the lamp regarding races and how to get to the collegium. Please let us know if you notice new questions or confusion from newbies.
Good job making changes (note: have not personally reviewed said changes). The last newbie tour overhaul kind of just got dropped in and abandoned. I like to see the followup to tweak and improve for the benefit of the newfolk.
Comments
@Weiwae by lore i mean you need to pay attention to the game in a specific way to know what to do next and it's hard to find that information because you don't know where to look!
for example the skein of fine thread and the hidden library (items to start the gnome quest) - the bread crumbs are there but a new player is NOT going to know chanterelle is a tailor. The room descript indicates that but not in a definite way.
to teach this -
when the mob runs out of bait - the player will have to manufacture some.
Mob mentions that the penguins like to hide bait in X.
HINTs tell player how to look for hidden objects.
Player finds bait, gives it to peguin. peguin spits it out.
HINTS tells player to PROBE BAIT.
Player sees that bait is unprocessed in some way from the bait descript.
HINT: may Mob X knows how to deal with this.
Player gives it to mob X
mob X says Hey! you need to find a drying rack or a hot place to dry it. or to find a hidden location.
HINT: Try asking the other Mobs for <KEYWORD> maybe they can help!
Player wanders around paying attention to the game. tries, pushing, probing, dropping and giving everything to all the mobs.
Player completes quest. Player knows how to do lusternian quests and where to go next should they want to do more quests.
This eases new players into an aspect of the game that's usually a little difficult to get into.
You've already have a quest tracking system. this suggestion will put it to good use!
In the intro I came through on, there was a figure - a denizen but nonetheless - that I was interacting with, that was speaking to me and guiding me - and the introduce yourself prompt was automatic.
I did actually rub the lamp a few times, and click a few questions to see which ones were given, and not once did I see a hint about introducing myself. Putting myself in the shoes of a true newbie, and remember I am quite new myself, I missed the interaction. With the Fates, I was pulled in - I had a companion, someone to lean on and turn to. It was a mob, but it was still a person and that was comforting in a small way. I was being led, not left.
With this new intro, as I say, there was a couple of paragraphs about "yay text-games; oh btw this is Lusternia and people like it", then I learned to hit something, and then whambam off I pop. I'm left to cycle through questions by myself - and this isn't optional. In the last intro I already knew how to move around and how to communicate, so I could if I wanted go straight to my org.
Now, I will have to stand there, rubbing and asking question after question until I find the one I need - while undoubtedly, people are greeting and directing to scrolls on the org aethers which could get overwhelming.
Why should our new players have to work so hard? There was nothing wrong with the pulling along, the teaching of lore, the learning of so many useful basics, that the previous intro had.
I hope this helps - my sentiments are much the same as many of the other comments
Raucous corvine laughter sounds out from the canopies of the surrounding forest, echoing eerily through the Wyrden Wood.
*baptized*
@Weiwae I wasn't very coherent in my last post re races. Since it's not a visible option during character creation (at least via the web client, I haven't tested using my client), and I get the reason for having the newbie wait - at the very least an OOC Hint/blurb during the intro letting them know that they -will- get to select their race and can even reincarnate for a time without limit to test them out will probably reassure those who are eager for race and provide good info.
CONFIG MAPVIEW ON and CONFIG PROMPT STATS should be the default config.
That may be something existing MUDders focus on more over new players - and I don't see an issue with having two different versions of the intro, one for brand new people who are learning what a text mud is, and one for, say, a convert from Dragonrealms or DIKU MUDs who wants to learn what IRE games are about (internal IRE converts aren't really the prime goal, I imagine). MUDs are a very small demographic and what keeps them afloat (aside from the die-hards for each game) is the slow trickle of new lifeblood matched with the cannibalization of players from other games. Catering to both types seems wise for growth.
I know Matt mentioned over on mudconnector a few years ago (when the Imperian new intros were being put in) that they were playtesting against focus groups and that IRE does do analytics to gauge who's genuinely new and what trends well with them. It seems their numbers are suggesting that most of the new players are genuinely new to MUDs, but I would imagine that sort of information is tricky to analyze (fake emails during signup, people trying to hide alts, imprecise methods of determining who is genuinely new).
How can it be more of a difficult decision than city or guild selection, something you are not allowed to wait on at all? Honestly, I'd wager that the vast majority of people know what race they want to be quicker than what org they want to join, and having to wait for it feels like something is missing. And you do have a free reincarnation if you change your mind. I used mine, when I was new, and it was just another fun part of my character changing. Everyone defaulting to human is...kinda weird.
EDIT: Actually, would it be possible to have the default determined by guild choice? So if you picked Aeromancer it'd default to Trill, Researchers start as Lucidians, Serenguard as Elfen, and Illuminati, Paladin, and Harbingers as Dracnari, Merian, and Faeling, respectively. (subject, obviously, to tweaking)
@Weiwae you said that newbies get confused, and can't really understand the mechanics and benefits that each race can provide until later in the game. I think more credit should be given to the players.
When choosing a city/commune and a guild, there is so much more information to read and take into consideration than there is with your race. Joining an org is also much more lingering - if you join an org and later decide to leave, that is a decision noticed by many. Changing your race? Pretty inconspicuous, especially with newbies. Having the option to read about the races during the intro is something I have seen in other games, and I had no issues with it.
(Personally, I also always look through the website of a game first, and so have already read about races and orgs)
I'm somewhat echoing @Phoebus here. The choosing of a race is probably the first thing a player has decided. It's the very basic definition of your character - how you will look, act, interact with others; it's something that I think the vast majority will think about first - how they look and what they are.
And finally to just repeat what @Lavinya said also, there are no restrictions on reincarnating when you are below a certain level (I think 21 or 30?), so even if there is regret on the race chosen, it can be fixed. Does it really change anything, or benefit the player by making them wait so long until they can define one of the most basic components of their gameplay and characterization?
Raucous corvine laughter sounds out from the canopies of the surrounding forest, echoing eerily through the Wyrden Wood.
*baptized*
Maybe even have a few lines in the intro referencing it?
like...
Serenwilde... the verdant forest of the north. Joyous as the spring, bold as the summer, solemn as the autumn, furious as the winter. Bearing the scars of countless battles, fought in the defence of this first and last bastion of nature both against the soulless and the ever encroaching "civilisation".
The loving and vengeful Moon... The wise and watchful White Hart... Fae spirits of all forms... people of all races. All forming the commune that has stood for a millenia, ever watched over by the Elfen who were the first to make their home in the shelter of the forest.
Elfen... as you consider them, snatches of memory come to you. Ellindel and Glinshari, the hearthmates who were the first Wiccan and Druid, Farella who condemned outsiders to death for the destruction they brought on the land and Rhoswen who sought to offer them redemption.
Your mind turning back to the task ahead of you, you notice your form becoming more defined, taking on the shape of an elfen.
The question lingers in your mind "Is your soul truly Elfen, or are you perhaps one of the other wondrous races from your hazy memories?", but something in the distance demands your attention and you push your thoughts to the side for now.
[HINT] For now, your race has been set to Elfen which is an option well suited to the classes Serenwilde offers. This is something you will be able to change easily if you want to.
Oh, also I don't know if it has it, but could the lamp have responses to "ask lamp about". It'd be cool, like ask lamp about races or ask lamp about ellindel. The menu interface for it was a bit frustrating to me.
The race thing is really confusing newbies.
It does feel like every newbie that comes through has the same question.
Can we get a bit of a race thing put into the initial intro to help them out please?
"All Lusternians start as one of the following races:
Could we maybe update the help file to explain that they start as Human now and that they have to go and reincarnate into a different race if they want to?
Had an after thought when I posted. Perhaps a quest can be made that would solve a lot of the issues being mentioned? The lamp prompt "You speak of quests." can then give them a quest of visit the Portal of Fate, telling them how to reach it with Hints and such. Upon arrival the lamp gifts them a journal, telling them the spiel of how to keep their adventures within it. The next lamp prompt could be races and how to reincarnate while they're still there. Seems win-win but taking criticisms.
Thanks.
Keep it up!