Breandryn is Rinnosuke. As soon as she said she was male, this should have made this really, really easy to piece together. Was it really that hard? You're all making me worry now.
Likely a vanilla town meant to throw you all off, and likely has no spellcards either since he has no training.
Also, this was kind of implied, but I've been assuming Kalaneya is Ratatoskr (why else do you think I was so interested in Ileein vs. Kalaneya specifically)? I want to shower soon, but can get back to this once I have more time to elaborate and catch up. I'll certainly want more time to analyse any follow up posts I may have skimmed past before elaborating.
On that note, I am now relatively certain of the presence of these individuals:
Still assessing possible significance without additional identities to work off of.
And since there's been some question of who I am, I'll just go ahead and tell you. My name is Kasen Ibaraki, and I've made me face visible to you all since Day 0. If you find me suspicious, then I'd recommend getting started with your research sooner rather than later, as I am rather enigmatic.
Tamashi vs Othekhi is a truly spectacular waste of everyone's time. Tamashi is being obtuse, sure, but what's your vote even based on? Tamashi is literally the worlds worst bluffer?
Second note is RP roles are annoying in a mafia game. Firstly, most of us don't know enough (or anything) about touhou to know what you're actually doing. Secondly, it often comes across as evasive and turns into clusters****s.
Third note, we've made no progress since I last checked in (minus some circular arguments and our 745th spell card battle) SO the wildcard non natives remain our best bet. Ileein being the most obvious as she's outright claimed being third party, but with a caveat that we don't know what'll happen with Ratawhatever if Ileein is lynched. Yarith being the second string choice as Shu from the Chimaera game.
Or we gank the people who were blocked and hope for the best.
Killing me doesn't help town. It provides no information beyond what I've provided, either.
Unfortunately, I was prevented from investigating last night so I've no solid answer as to who Ratatoskr might be. Most likely is one of those who claimed outsider before my role became apparent, so Lehki, Yarith, and Kalaneya (and Breandryn? was that a thing that happened or am I just confused).
Keeping you alive diddling in the background doesn't help town either. As I've explained in previous mafia games, you're a net negative as a third party because you have the potential to flip when it's convenient for you, and the town's only way of holding you accountable is by wasting powers on you at night to keep you in check and holding a lynch over your head.
Your only truly trustworthy benefit is that you can potentially help us root out another third party character. Then at that point I don't know what we'd do. Feed you to one another?
Nope. I only win when Ratatoskr dies, and apparently the only way that can happen is by lynch. The Mafia (if there is one rather than a cult in this game) and me have nothing to offer one another.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
Yet the town has nothing to offer you either. You're an unknown, a wildcard, and yes, you can flip to help mafia (just like you are claiming to want to help town now) at any point. Consider that the longer the game goes on, aka you don't out members of the mafia, the better chance you have to win.
That's not even considering any personal player side motivation to just do whatever you want as a third party. On the one hand, I feel a little bad that it'll suck to gank you and other third parties just trying to be honest and up front. On the other, you're third party and not town. Therefor you're bad.
I'd vote for you now but I'm still debating what'll happen to Ratgod at that point. Will they be removed from the game? Will they be revealed? Will they continue to diddle on in the background without us knowing? Does it have obnoxious god powers like it did last time?
Yet the town has nothing to offer you either. You're an unknown, a wildcard, and yes, you can flip to help mafia (just like you are claiming to want to help town now) at any point. Consider that the longer the game goes on, aka you don't out members of the mafia, the better chance you have to win.
That's not even considering any personal player side motivation to just do whatever you want as a third party. On the one hand, I feel a little bad that it'll suck to gank you and other third parties just trying to be honest and up front. On the other, you're third party and not town. Therefor you're bad.
I'd vote for you now but I'm still debating what'll happen to Ratgod at that point. Will they be removed from the game? Will they be revealed? Will they continue to diddle on in the background without us knowing? Does it have obnoxious god powers like it did last time?
Agreed, that would be shitty. As I said, I have made a gamble: to be honest and upfront rather than continuing to try to deceive Town as to my identity and motivations. If you ask me, that's the scummy thing to do.
And Town does have something to offer me: lynch Ratatoskr. Then he's not around to cause further trouble, and I'm removed from the game if you hate me being here as a third party so much.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
@Vivet I knew about Rinnosuke, they made it very obvious. Also, you're missing my reveal of Alice being here. As for all the third party people, sure we could just take them out as you suggest, and others did, just so we don't have to deal with it. But in my guesses so far, removing @Ileein and/or Ratatoskr on an individual basis triggers their win condition. I doubt their conditions hold basis on the game itself...as it would be a really fast and disappointing way to end this. We have all these spellcard duel powers with people, there's probably one out there to inhibit someone. @Tremula has an echo shield for danmaku (spellcard duels), @Siam has some benefit to wagered duels, and I can learn information about people from duels. Those are just the ones we -know- about and aren't being hush hush and hidden. So yea, I'm still a fan of a no lynch until someone can give any information that is definitely more helpful than outing names.
You're right, it's a gamble, but it's hardly a noble one. If town had found out through other means, such as an investigation, you'd have a much harder time defending yourself.
Mafia can lynch too. Your arguments don't really have any bite to them. Basically all you are doing is admitting your position is one of convenience, which isn't a big reveal. That's the nature of being a third party. It's also what makes third parties excellent stab victims in lieu of good mafia leads.
@Ileein it happens during any duel I take part of, as I've mentioned before. Though this is your quest as a third party, not really mine. Sure I could help verify you, but I already have a distinct feeling if/when I duel Ratatattat I'll get the same vagueness I got from Othero, I mean...we're talking God of Mischief and Messengers....with faulty information. My character is pretty talented, but that's a whole new can o' worms.
Fine, think that if you wish. But given that your entire modus operandi seems to be "pick someone to gun hard for, regardless of the strength of your arguments," I honestly don't see the point of continuing to discuss it. Lynch me if you want, obviously, but I think a better option would be to successfully lynch Ratatoskr, thus removing two third-parties from the game, instead of one.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
@Ileein it happens during any duel I take part of, as I've mentioned before. Though this is your quest as a third party, not really mine. Sure I could help verify you, but I already have a distinct feeling if/when I duel Ratatattat I'll get the same vagueness I got from Othero, I mean...we're talking God of Mischief and Messengers....with faulty information. My character is pretty talented, but that's a whole new can o' worms.
And that would tell us as much as anything else, really. Not too many character have a good reason to be surrounded in mystical vagueness.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
*sigh* first I need to complete my exhibition that I jokingly renamed with Iosion before another duel happens. If @Kalaneya wishes to duel they can challenge me at this rate. For that matter, if anybody wants my ability to fire for my own knowledge of figuring you out, feel free to challenge as well. Until I actually feel the need to make a point and stand for it, I won't be issuing challenges.
Fine, think that if you wish. But given that your entire modus operandi seems to be "pick someone to gun hard for, regardless of the strength of your arguments," I honestly don't see the point of continuing to discuss it. Lynch me if you want, obviously, but I think a better option would be to successfully lynch Ratatoskr, thus removing two third-parties from the game, instead of one.
I guess deliberately misrepresenting the case I've made against you as irrational and unfair is one approach.
If lynching rata whatever removes 2 third parties from the game, would the same proposed scenario not apply in reverse?
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Wasn't Ratatoskr essentially immune to investigations before? He would show up as whatever was convenient to him? I feel like it's pretty possible that could be the case again, and the only person whose power could actually identify him is Ileein's.
And we have no way of knowing that his goal is just a mirror of Ileein's, and I honestly would not bet on it.
Fine, think that if you wish. But given that your entire modus operandi seems to be "pick someone to gun hard for, regardless of the strength of your arguments," I honestly don't see the point of continuing to discuss it. Lynch me if you want, obviously, but I think a better option would be to successfully lynch Ratatoskr, thus removing two third-parties from the game, instead of one.
I guess deliberately misrepresenting the case I've made against you as irrational and unfair is one approach.
If lynching rata whatever removes 2 third parties from the game, would the same proposed scenario not apply in reverse?
I know for a fact that lynching Rat causes me to win, and we both leave. I know that lynching me causes me to fail my win condition, but we do not know that Rat would win, and I would not bet on it. Remember that last time he was a Survivor (or a Lone Survivor or something).
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
And unless Kalaneya is willing to prove that they are not Ratatoskr by dueling Tamashi (who has already indicated openness to the test), I too will Vote Kalaneya for the present.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
Also, if nobody noticed, I stopped doing the character portrayal, fun spoilers :P. Light jokes aside, I only suggested Ratty's motives be to lynch @Ileein as the end-game, is because I believe in symmetry. Though if we really want to identify what his quest is like, then I also had an idea. -- https://epicmafia.com/role/140
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Between Ileein and Kalaneya I'd rather VoteKalaneya. Anyone have objections or courses of action they'd prefer?
Yes. Kalaneya is an unknown. Ileein is a known. No reason to gamble with that.
I want to test the Kalaneya = Ratataskor theory. Her reaction to being singled out struck me as a bit fishy, especially in light of Vivet's accusations. If she duels Tamashi and he's willing to vouch for her not being Ratsputin, I'll unvote. Pressure cookers can be effective mafia techniques!
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
You know, guys, I was going to go into this big spiel about how Kalaneya seemed to shift around from aggressive to passive with Ileein, like they knew who Ileein was at that point and didn't want to reveal too much, and analyze this "zigzag circle slash" card relative to other cards used by people claiming to be outside of Gensokyo...
But if I'm not mistaken, Lehki has admitted to being from our universe? So the "three non-natives" might specifically mean those outside the Touhou universe. Ileein is Pollux. Yarith is Shu. And just on page 23, Kalaneya has confirmed that they are not from the Touhou universe. That looks like some pretty solid confirmation to me at this point.
So if we all want to go without a chaos squirrel running amok, we should probably just go ahead and lynch Kalaneya today. If you have reasons for wanting to keep Ratatoskr alive, however, or feel there is a hole in this logic, feel free to probe at it.
@Lehki it might state he (Ileein) has to remain alive for the win condition to actually fire, otherwise that's just too easy.
Correct. If I'm lynched, I lose. I've made the gamble to trust in town and be forthright. Let us hope it wasn't a gamble poorly made.
Ileein, why did you specify "lynched"? What about being killed in other ways, like being night-killed by the Mafia? Wouldn't you be just as dead/stumped then?
@Ileein, please respond to this. I guess you missed this before?
I'm standing corrected on the 'not from Gensokyo' thing. It looks like it means 'not in the Touhou universe'.
If there are three people not from the Touhou universe, then we already have 2 claimed: Ileein as Pollux, and Yarith as Shu. If we're to believe Ileein, this leaves Ratatoskr unclaimed. Both Lehki and I claimed that we were in the Touhou universe, but not from Gensokyo itself.
I get what Ileein was trying to do now, which is to see if I had spellcards that looked like traditional bullet hell Touhou type spellcards. Ileein's attack was basically punching me in the chest, and Yarith doesn't do anything. If the outsiders are similar to Ileein and Yarith in this regard, then anyone who hasn't dueled or is unable to do so comes under suspicion. It'll take me awhile to read through the duels and figure out who's already done it and if their attacks are Touhou-like.
Off the top of my head, Breandryn, Sylandra, Lavinya, Krackenor haven't duelled.
The first line there seems ambiguous - that's what caught my attention. Looking over it again, however, I might have misread the intention behind the statement, since it is incongruous with the rest of your post.
Comments
Breandryn is Rinnosuke. As soon as she said she was male, this should have made this really, really easy to piece together. Was it really that hard? You're all making me worry now.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Rinnosuke_Morichika
Likely a vanilla town meant to throw you all off, and likely has no spellcards either since he has no training.
Also, this was kind of implied, but I've been assuming Kalaneya is Ratatoskr (why else do you think I was so interested in Ileein vs. Kalaneya specifically)? I want to shower soon, but can get back to this once I have more time to elaborate and catch up. I'll certainly want more time to analyse any follow up posts I may have skimmed past before elaborating.
On that note, I am now relatively certain of the presence of these individuals:
Byakuren Hijiri
Toyosatomimi no Miko
Sanae Kochiya
Shinki
Sumireko Usami
Marisa Kirisame
Still assessing possible significance without additional identities to work off of.
And since there's been some question of who I am, I'll just go ahead and tell you. My name is Kasen Ibaraki, and I've made me face visible to you all since Day 0. If you find me suspicious, then I'd recommend getting started with your research sooner rather than later, as I am rather enigmatic.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Kasen_Ibaraki
Be back in a few.
That's not even considering any personal player side motivation to just do whatever you want as a third party. On the one hand, I feel a little bad that it'll suck to gank you and other third parties just trying to be honest and up front. On the other, you're third party and not town. Therefor you're bad.
I'd vote for you now but I'm still debating what'll happen to Ratgod at that point. Will they be removed from the game? Will they be revealed? Will they continue to diddle on in the background without us knowing? Does it have obnoxious god powers like it did last time?
And Town does have something to offer me: lynch Ratatoskr. Then he's not around to cause further trouble, and I'm removed from the game if you hate me being here as a third party so much.
Mafia can lynch too. Your arguments don't really have any bite to them. Basically all you are doing is admitting your position is one of convenience, which isn't a big reveal. That's the nature of being a third party. It's also what makes third parties excellent stab victims in lieu of good mafia leads.
If lynching rata whatever removes 2 third parties from the game, would the same proposed scenario not apply in reverse?
And we have no way of knowing that his goal is just a mirror of Ileein's, and I honestly would not bet on it.
But if I'm not mistaken, Lehki has admitted to being from our universe? So the "three non-natives" might specifically mean those outside the Touhou universe. Ileein is Pollux. Yarith is Shu. And just on page 23, Kalaneya has confirmed that they are not from the Touhou universe. That looks like some pretty solid confirmation to me at this point.
So if we all want to go without a chaos squirrel running amok, we should probably just go ahead and lynch Kalaneya today. If you have reasons for wanting to keep Ratatoskr alive, however, or feel there is a hole in this logic, feel free to probe at it.
@Sylandra: I'm fine with duelling Tamashi. @Tamashi, I challenge you to a duel! Reimu's coming!