I'm really not totally sure about this right now, but... you know what? I guess I have to do it anyways.
You know, I was really looking forward to being sane in this game. I ended up with a more serious minded character, after all. It's good to try and play your part. But I guess you'll all have to pretend I am temporarily insane while I bust out this ridiculously oversized hammer of 4th wall breaking.
You see, Kira seems to like referencing prior games. Back in the Chimaera mafia, there was this certain character. A character that would move on to be a narrator of sorts in the Gods and Monsters mafia game, and who, upon the conclusion of that game, would make a vow. His vow was to hunt down the individual who effectively acted as the primary antagonist of Gods and Monsters.
This stuck in my mind, because I was the one playing the part of said antagonist in that game.
So now we have Ileein here, who is claiming to be a 3rd party type thing detective. At first look, this isn't making too much sense. He's looking for someone who he is very sure is a bad guy. Someone he says has hurt a lot of people, and is a manipulator of sorts first and foremost.
Ileein? You're not just from outside of Gensokyo, are you? You're very likely not even from our version of the Other World. No, it's more likely you've crossed various dimensions to continue your pursuit, which might help to explain your overall confusion and disorientation.
One thing is for sure. You are here, because you are sure he is here.
So please, allow me to guess.
Is your name Pollux? And are you looking for a Ratatoskr?
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
I saw his distinctive avatar at least once, but I can't remember if it was anything relevant. Let's see if mister quiet has something to hide. Fear my mighty sweeping skills!
Krackenor! I also challenge you with my Sutras of the Gate!
Random aside - Falmiis is striking me as a bit unusual too. Six wings? Hmm. I can think of a few characters like that, but they're all PC-98 exclusives. That's not something I would have expected either, but hey, given my last hypothesis this seems pretty mild. One more thing to keep an eye on, at least.
Wait, are we sure Ileein isn't just trying to bait us here? Only time I usually see third parties with a target is when that target needs to be eliminated for the 3rd party to win...Then again, my brain stopped braining a while ago, so...
This is why I asked If we can assume he's a killer as well.
And does the logic about him not being Mafia because of the roleblock (it's early...I think that was the logic) apply if he's the SK and he's playing us with "detective"? (Is there a diff between investigator and detective?)
OH cruel Fate, when wilt thou weary be?
When satisfied with tormenting me?
What have I e'er designed, but thou hast crost?
All that I wished to gain by thee, I've lost:
From my first infancy, thy spite thou'st shown
and from my cradle, I've thy malice known...
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Oh sorry misread your question. No, I take the two terms detective and investigator to be fairly synonymous.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
@Ileein I want to trust you, so I'm being upfront in this. Please accept me on exhibition level, if you can do that for me then I'll be able to confirm or deny who you say you are. Since we're being honest with our roles, I have something I dismissed early on. When I duel I can see past the Unknown and get a glimpse of identity, but not powers, just the name.
With that being said, hopefully you can return to trust.
@IleeinI challenge you to a spellcard duel! Raining Light of Humanity!
I don't know if it means that @Ileein is automatically a killer too.
I read it more as a Voldemort-like "Neither can win while the other survives" condition for Ileein vs. rival. Thus if either of them figure out who the other is, they'll try push a lynch their way.
Also, since we suffered no deaths last night, while Ileein was roleblocked, I'd expect his rival to be in some way a mirror to Ileein, and since they were likely to free to act, it doesn't look his target has a kill -> Ileein likely doesn't have a kill.
As for where I am on other matters: my thinking has mainly been on the census and whether it is reliable. For all the same reasons others have stated, I think assuming outsiders to be a scum group is too simplistic, and believe alignment flips will be more dangerous to town.
Still no idea on if flipping will be due to a cult or a different mechanic though. But we'll need a second census to see if and how flips show, if at all.
So I was inclined to believe that the census wouldn't be all that useful beyond pointing out 4 saboteurs, however Kiradawea's reveal of the stumping mechanic and info that deaths don't reveal information, turned me back to thinking that the census may be our best source of information barring investigators pointing the finger.
But with Kalaneya also saying she's non-native and throwing up 4 outsiders, I think our best option now would be to conduct a census ourselves to determine if outsider means Touhou-verse vs Vivet's outsider theory, or Gensokyo vs. Non-Gensokyo.
I am definitely Touhou-verse, but potentially non-native Gensokyo (though warning my understanding of just what makes up Gensokyo is sketchy). Inclined to believe I wouldn't show as outsider. No marking of non-native.
(If Vivet's right, I'd be inclined to lynch Kalaneya for earlier seeming to deny existence of non-Touhou characters, iirc. Might give Ileein a person win, but not really bothered by 3-party win conditions that don't rule out town win.)
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I'm Touhou-verse and Hakurei shrine aligned, while we are censusing.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I think we are getting really hung up on what not native means and unless people want to start dropping character names we are not going to get that far with it. Ileein is the only one who comes off as suspicious with this because of all the other info that was dropped.
Right, which is why I suggested our own census as a comparison to the 'official' census.
It was Kalaneya's highlighting of there being 4 non-native claims that made me do a more thorough wiki'ing of my own character, and made me realise I could not tell if I would be considered Gensokyo native or not myself. You appear to have the same uncertainty I have.
I believe I would be considered native to Touhou-verse though, and that is what the census is checking, which makes me inclined to believe Vivet's theory.
So if we have a Pollux and a Ratatoskr, and the supposition is non-natives are coming from past mafia games, it gives us a bit more idea of what the motivations of the third non-native might be if we look back to them!
I agree, I hope he posts soon too and accepts my friendly exhibition. I am a full native as well and I think I made it clear I can discern names against those I duel. It's not entirely useful information, but a name is a name.
I saw his distinctive avatar at least once, but I can't remember if it was anything relevant. Let's see if mister quiet has something to hide. Fear my mighty sweeping skills!
Krackenor! I also challenge you with my Sutras of the Gate!
Everything I say is of relevance! How DARE you!
Tremula, I accept your challenge! We duel for honor! Jewel of Truth!
@Vivet for whenever you have more time, can you elaborate a bit more on why you think presence of Buddhists/Moriya shrine contingency is important? Are they rivals to Hakurei shrine peeps?
I haven't, since nothing in my role relies on dueling (other than the potential ability-blocking on loss aspect)
That makes me dislike the one-sided benefit of dueling to people like Ssaliss who does gain something from the duels. Plus there's the fact that I'm too unfamiliar with the theme to gain the same level of understanding Vivet seems to get from them!
But since I realise I won't be able to go on forever without dueling,
Luce. I'll challenge you. Face my Flower of a Lost Soul!
Comments
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
I'm really not totally sure about this right now, but... you know what? I guess I have to do it anyways.
You know, I was really looking forward to being sane in this game. I ended up with a more serious minded character, after all. It's good to try and play your part. But I guess you'll all have to pretend I am temporarily insane while I bust out this ridiculously oversized hammer of 4th wall breaking.
You see, Kira seems to like referencing prior games. Back in the Chimaera mafia, there was this certain character. A character that would move on to be a narrator of sorts in the Gods and Monsters mafia game, and who, upon the conclusion of that game, would make a vow. His vow was to hunt down the individual who effectively acted as the primary antagonist of Gods and Monsters.
This stuck in my mind, because I was the one playing the part of said antagonist in that game.
So now we have Ileein here, who is claiming to be a 3rd party type thing detective. At first look, this isn't making too much sense. He's looking for someone who he is very sure is a bad guy. Someone he says has hurt a lot of people, and is a manipulator of sorts first and foremost.
Ileein? You're not just from outside of Gensokyo, are you? You're very likely not even from our version of the Other World. No, it's more likely you've crossed various dimensions to continue your pursuit, which might help to explain your overall confusion and disorientation.
One thing is for sure. You are here, because you are sure he is here.
So please, allow me to guess.
Is your name Pollux? And are you looking for a Ratatoskr?
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Krackenor! I also challenge you with my Sutras of the Gate!
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
And does the logic about him not being Mafia because of the roleblock (it's early...I think that was the logic) apply if he's the SK and he's playing us with "detective"? (Is there a diff between investigator and detective?)
Well, so far my theory about third parties appear to be correct as far as Ileein is concerned. Assuming Vivet is correct.
The other claimed third parties are Lehki and Yarith, the census said three right? Does that mean one of those two are the rat god I can't spell?
With that being said, hopefully you can return to trust.
@Ileein I challenge you to a spellcard duel! Raining Light of Humanity!
I read it more as a Voldemort-like "Neither can win while the other survives" condition for Ileein vs. rival. Thus if either of them figure out who the other is, they'll try push a lynch their way.
Also, since we suffered no deaths last night, while Ileein was roleblocked, I'd expect his rival to be in some way a mirror to Ileein, and since they were likely to free to act, it doesn't look his target has a kill -> Ileein likely doesn't have a kill.
As for where I am on other matters: my thinking has mainly been on the census and whether it is reliable. For all the same reasons others have stated, I think assuming outsiders to be a scum group is too simplistic, and believe alignment flips will be more dangerous to town.
Still no idea on if flipping will be due to a cult or a different mechanic though. But we'll need a second census to see if and how flips show, if at all.
So I was inclined to believe that the census wouldn't be all that useful beyond pointing out 4 saboteurs, however Kiradawea's reveal of the stumping mechanic and info that deaths don't reveal information, turned me back to thinking that the census may be our best source of information barring investigators pointing the finger.
But with Kalaneya also saying she's non-native and throwing up 4 outsiders, I think our best option now would be to conduct a census ourselves to determine if outsider means Touhou-verse vs Vivet's outsider theory, or Gensokyo vs. Non-Gensokyo.
I am definitely Touhou-verse, but potentially non-native Gensokyo (though warning my understanding of just what makes up Gensokyo is sketchy). Inclined to believe I wouldn't show as outsider. No marking of non-native.
(If Vivet's right, I'd be inclined to lynch Kalaneya for earlier seeming to deny existence of non-Touhou characters, iirc. Might give Ileein a person win, but not really bothered by 3-party win conditions that don't rule out town win.)
Admittedly, I don't know if I'm a native or not. I do wear a Miko outfit and I'm considered town for this, so I'm inclined to believe I'm native.
It was Kalaneya's highlighting of there being 4 non-native claims that made me do a more thorough wiki'ing of my own character, and made me realise I could not tell if I would be considered Gensokyo native or not myself. You appear to have the same uncertainty I have.
I believe I would be considered native to Touhou-verse though, and that is what the census is checking, which makes me inclined to believe Vivet's theory.
So if we have a Pollux and a Ratatoskr, and the supposition is non-natives are coming from past mafia games, it gives us a bit more idea of what the motivations of the third non-native might be if we look back to them!
And where did we get that Pollux and Ratatoskr was a legit suggestion? I just saw Vivet's theory but nothing confirming it.
Since I've been fairly forward otherwise, I'll just say I'm a Gensokyo native myself.
Hopefully Ileein will be posting soon. For now, I better head out to work.
Tremula, I accept your challenge! We duel for honor! Jewel of Truth!
(Sorry for being quiet... Busy week)
That makes me dislike the one-sided benefit of dueling to people like Ssaliss who does gain something from the duels. Plus there's the fact that I'm too unfamiliar with the theme to gain the same level of understanding Vivet seems to get from them!
But since I realise I won't be able to go on forever without dueling,
Luce. I'll challenge you. Face my Flower of a Lost Soul!
Also, if it helps you see it in a better light, Ushaara, if I gain something from the duel, then town gains something.
But the informational asymmetry in the potential gain of dueling is what doesn't sit right, especially if alignment flips are something we will face!
I accept your challenge Ushaara! We duel for Resilience! Dolls of Passion and Peace!