I'm going to push you a little more towards raffles as a gold sink. It's gambling, so you can sink a lot of gold relative to the amount of stuff that gets produced in return. Gambling also offers a thrill to the right sort of person. It should also be fairly easy to automate.
Do a drawing every week. Every week has some number of small prizes. Every other week adds in a medium prize, last drawing of every month adds in a big prize. Small prizes are consumables. Some number of triple junction drinks, maybe golden lips. You could add in dingbats/credits/goop in that bracket, although I personally would not. Medium prizes should be collectibles. Retired dolls would be a good choice, and you can probably come up with others. Big prizes should be unique to the raffle. These might include unique beasts, ikons of yourself, unique dolls, and so forth. If the code allows it, consider a set of items that can be used in place of any guild's staff/chemgun/symbol and so forth that people can customize once they win. Maybe a gnomish blaster or something along those lines.
Lotteries are also an option. Ticket is X gold, some percentage of total proceeds are split among winners. Can do it in proportion to correct numbers chosen if you want to make sure you split it up among a decent number of people. This sinks a guaranteed percent of the gold and can redistribute the rest, although I don't know how popular it would be.
Basically, I think the Gnafia should open a casino with some unique prizes that can draw people in in addition to gold.
I'd be for something like this, but please don't make it run by the Gnafia. It should be a neutral entity that people can't be enemied to, and preferably isn't cartoonishly evil.
@Estarra are there any plans for additional things to spend our gold on?
As mentioned dust is just kinda shifting the promo item generation to a different currency, but I don't see anything right now that seems to be really talked about that's actually going to get me spending money expect donating it to Serenwilde to help pay for defences if the costs outweigh what we generate which isn't exactly filling me with enthusiasm cause... well you might as well just have the org tax my gold income.
Open to ideas! One issue I think is that from the get-go I always wanted items to be player made so we don't sell items for gold in mob-run shops (except for Bob but he's mostly for newbies).
@Estarra are there any plans for additional things to spend our gold on?
As mentioned dust is just kinda shifting the promo item generation to a different currency, but I don't see anything right now that seems to be really talked about that's actually going to get me spending money expect donating it to Serenwilde to help pay for defences if the costs outweigh what we generate which isn't exactly filling me with enthusiasm cause... well you might as well just have the org tax my gold income.
Open to ideas! One issue I think is that from the get-go I always wanted items to be player made so we don't sell items for gold in mob-run shops (except for Bob but he's mostly for newbies).
Edit: Oh, and manses!
An idea I mentioned a few pages back was hiring stock dwellers effectively, if they could provide some kind of service that would be great (aethercrews, maintaining furniture at a cost, other special bonuses) because those bonuses might attract additional investment in manses (if you make it do each manse room can only house one dweller).
Some players might invest just to get any benefits that are offered (if they offer limited combat buffs for example, or the aethercrew idea someone else mentioned), while it could also encourage some to spend more money maybe in setting up homes for them (could have a wandering switch and use the dingbat arti to restrict them to their house ^_^), or the maintaining furniture, depending on the cost, might help encourage people to buy more furniture.
It could also offer expansion into guild/org version of the stock dwellers with an additional fee that goes to the guild/org (which helps transfer funds for the defence costs while providing a benefit to the player).
I often go through stages where I really want to work on my manse and ship, but well my manse while nice doesn't really give me benefits aside from holding my throne, and well I only really use my ship for running to bubbles (due to quiet times) so the extra modules are pretty much a waste of money for me. So new stuff to put in there would be great, especially tangible benefits.
Ooh, and can libraries sell books (at a higher cost than getting a bookbinder to make you a magiccopy of course, money can be divided between the author, the org running the library, and the void), i'd love to add to my library but the effort makes me avoid the idea.
I am not proposing any solutions yet, but I had some notes for everyone.
* Do not punish players. Your gold should magically go away because you have more than you will spend is a bad idea.
* Large groups of commodities should not be able to suddenly decay and take away long term effort for people who put in the time.
* There are two problems. Generation and stockpiles, this applies to all currencies in the game. We are focusing on solutions to handle generation, but we will also need to handle the existing stockpiles. I think we can give this all a clean solution actually.
* Don't focus on each other so much. Direct bickering isn't going to be productive. Your statements should be general and consist of reasoning or support for your stance. You are free to debate a point of reasoning, but attacking someone because of their name or who they are is an attempt to dismiss the feedback.
Also a small idea: credits off the market autobind, and let us buy credits off the market for others (also autobind).
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Is that a la Achaea's war tank system? We'd have to address the disparity between org layouts (2 entrances for Gaudiguch/Hallifax, 4 for Magnagora/Celest one of which is a water room, and 5+ for Glomdoring/Serenwilde).
Not entirely applicable given that a big balancing part of achaeas involves the ease of getting in/out. It's way easier to do that here. I'm just saying it's something to seriously consider.
Celest has 3, unless you're counting the portal room. North gate to Alabaster, South gate to Imperial, East to Inner Sea. Mag has West to SoD, North to Old wossname, south to Great Southern, East to Blasted Lands.
It should be noted though that the only real infrastructure that could be damaged in either of the forests are -maybe- guildhalls (only the BT one for sure), the shop areas, and one or two more spots that are much more defensible. Essentially, Seren's library, Abeytu's garden, and maybe the Flame would be lost causes, but the shop area has 5 entrances, all hidden. Glom's library/Observatory, and the Drums would be easily targeted, but the shop area has 3 realistic entrances (though all three are more far flung than Seren's 5). If guildhalls can't be wrecked, nearly everything else could realistically just be regrown in both forests.
Buuut in order for any of that to be feasible, there would need to be a way to temporarily turn off the Avenger for org home territories, or the raid would last a grand total of ~20 minutes before everyone was Bully status and can't play anymore.
Every functional* item that players made needs to have a component that you can only get from an NPC, or an outlay cost that immediately sinks out of the game. That's really the only way to institute game wide minor gold sinks.
This might directly raise the cost of goods by only 5-10%, if that, but that's 10% more gold than gets sunk out of the game by economic activity now. Only Bookbinding has any real gold sink through the outlay.
Personally, I'm not a fan of any kind of Prime raiding scenario without first tackling general raid mechanics and incentives on the higher planes. You have to start somewhere, and it's not here.
*In other words: not most of artisan. Not most of jewelry. So on. These are optional 'roleplaying' trades, the use of which should be encouraged.
What if orgs were allowed to build structures and buildings on their higher planes? Let them serve as the connection point for constructs, and protect planar mobs a little, maybe even generate a tiny bit of power, and in exchange they can be damaged to negate those bonuses.
Require comms to build them, and fewer comms to repair them from a damaged state. Damaging the structure gives it a temporary bubble where it can't be broken for a time, giving the defending org a chance to rebuild it in the case of kick+run raids that manage to bust one, but if it isn't repaired when the shield comes down it's susceptible to being broken. At this point it loses its effect completely, but gains another shield. From broken it can be fully destroyed, requiring it to be rebuilt from scratch.
Something like it requires 100% comms to build a Thing, 25% to repair from damaged to pristine, and 50% from broken to damaged. Things cannot be built in the same room as a permanent mobile, such as a Supernal, Earth Lord, Aspect, or Sphere, nor can one be built on a Nexus object.
And I think we've had plenty of time for Hallifax/Gaudiguch to establish themselves, can we get permanent Elemental to Cosmic rifts between Fire/Vortex and Air/Continuum?
Players can trade gold, sticky or unsticky dingbats, and bound or unbound credits for others in the same list, adding aethergoop, Czigany coins, Wonder Crystals, and this dust if we get it. Rate fluctuates based on trades (too many unbound credits traded in? Rate is lessened against other items), or admin can tweak it if they think people are playing the market. Items traded in are obviously removed from circulation, as is the gold. May need to be adjusted to make sure people don't abuse it for alts.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Xenthos has a lot of gold and needs one more wondercrystal for his wondersocks. Instead of waiting to find a seller, he can buy one at a rate that may not save him money, but is convienent.
Also, let us use gold to apply random pieces to partial curios like the CoC. Rarer sets or Rares themselves cost more.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
More comprehensively, you could consider adding something that provides a regular maintenance and will remain enticing; for example, what if there was a "Wintergrasp" type zone, always in a state of back and forth warfare, which had heavy upkeep costs (maintain org/personal outposts, maintain guards, portals, etc) and gold-sinkish options, eg mercenary troops you can hire to assist you. This would essentially be a new conflict mechanic, one especially welcoming to single players or small groups looking to start trouble (helps fix the guard kicking problem). Resources are regularly drained from both orgs and individuals. Tangible rewards for victory, such as power or construct-like buffs or access to exclusive merchants. Maybe have special comms dropped/sold there and only there, making participation even more enticing. Both the rich and poor can play, and help out in their own ways. This is a completely made up and example system, so it's not the best or most polished example.
I think something more engaging like this would be good, as it would entice people to regularly spend gold/comms. If the system is designed well, it would repeatedly encourage people to spend gold/comms and participate.
New conflict systems are really ranging far from the matter at hand. Indeed, we've tossed around some of these ideas before! That said, we could have maintenance fees for controlling villages and aetherspheres (and domoths?). If the org fails to pay, they would just go into play early.
New conflict systems are really ranging far from the matter at hand. Indeed, we've tossed around some of these ideas before! That said, we could have maintenance fees for controlling villages and aetherspheres (and domoths?). If the org fails to pay, they would just go into play early.
What.. what would they do?
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
New conflict systems are really ranging far from the matter at hand. Indeed, we've tossed around some of these ideas before! That said, we could have maintenance fees for controlling villages and aetherspheres (and domoths?). If the org fails to pay, they would just go into play early.
1 crystal in a wondersock makes you immune to stench.
5 allow a minor twist (The Papyrus Socks of Tinactin) and constant waterwalking.
7 gives you faster moment speed (double sandals of haste) in your org, planes connected to your org, and half that in villages held by your org.
10 allows a major twist (Mint-Infused Socks of Camel Hair) and allow your proteges and mutual allies to path walk to you if on the same plane.
12 gives you a 5% chance to dodge mob attacks.
15 allows a huge twist (Shanth's Tabi Socks of Stalking) and allow you to stomp and mark a room, then recall to it if you're on the same plane. Bypasses monolith, no enemy territory, stopped by distortion.
20 crystals gives a gigantic twist (Muud's Crusty Socks of Shard-Devouring) and lowers your summon/move resist to 0 for mutual allies, while increasing it heavily vs enemies.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
New conflict systems are really ranging far from the matter at hand. Indeed, we've tossed around some of these ideas before! That said, we could have maintenance fees for controlling villages and aetherspheres (and domoths?). If the org fails to pay, they would just go into play early.
What.. what would they do?
If you stuff them down your trousers, you automatically win all forums arguments.
New conflict systems are really ranging far from the matter at hand. Indeed, we've tossed around some of these ideas before! That said, we could have maintenance fees for controlling villages and aetherspheres (and domoths?). If the org fails to pay, they would just go into play early.
What.. what would they do?
If you stuff them down your trousers, you automatically win all forums arguments.
New conflict systems are really ranging far from the matter at hand. Indeed, we've tossed around some of these ideas before! That said, we could have maintenance fees for controlling villages and aetherspheres (and domoths?). If the org fails to pay, they would just go into play early.
What.. what would they do?
If you stuff them down your trousers, you automatically win all forums arguments.
New conflict systems are really ranging far from the matter at hand. Indeed, we've tossed around some of these ideas before! That said, we could have maintenance fees for controlling villages and aetherspheres (and domoths?). If the org fails to pay, they would just go into play early.
Conflict systems with maintenance would seem to be part of the matter at hand. Source of commodity valuation by continued (potential) expense. Mind you, I like conflict but this also has potential to cause grief. Making villages cost comms when they donate comms seems strange. Constructs could cost commodities to maintain, maybe bursts every year or they fall apart? Formerly constructs COST power to maintain, now they donate a huge amount.
Perhaps you could bribe individuals though for village feelings, I like the RP of that.
New conflict systems are really ranging far from the matter at hand. Indeed, we've tossed around some of these ideas before! That said, we could have maintenance fees for controlling villages and aetherspheres (and domoths?). If the org fails to pay, they would just go into play early.
What.. what would they do?
If you stuff them down your trousers, you automatically win all forums arguments.
All the cool emojis are gone from the forums, but this will have to do.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
There are actually quite a few emoji on the forums; far more than are available from the dropdown. Like this one:
I wish there was a list of them all, but you can get a few matches by typing : followed by a letter. For instance, :a will bring up angry ( ), anguished ( ), astonished ( ), naughty ( ) and rage ( ). It's darn cumbersome though, and hard to get a complete list of them that way.
Comments
Edit: Oh, and manses!
Some players might invest just to get any benefits that are offered (if they offer limited combat buffs for example, or the aethercrew idea someone else mentioned), while it could also encourage some to spend more money maybe in setting up homes for them (could have a wandering switch and use the dingbat arti to restrict them to their house ^_^), or the maintaining furniture, depending on the cost, might help encourage people to buy more furniture.
It could also offer expansion into guild/org version of the stock dwellers with an additional fee that goes to the guild/org (which helps transfer funds for the defence costs while providing a benefit to the player).
I often go through stages where I really want to work on my manse and ship, but well my manse while nice doesn't really give me benefits aside from holding my throne, and well I only really use my ship for running to bubbles (due to quiet times) so the extra modules are pretty much a waste of money for me. So new stuff to put in there would be great, especially tangible benefits.
Ooh, and can libraries sell books (at a higher cost than getting a bookbinder to make you a magiccopy of course, money can be divided between the author, the org running the library, and the void), i'd love to add to my library but the effort makes me avoid the idea.
* Do not punish players. Your gold should magically go away because you have more than you will spend is a bad idea.
* Large groups of commodities should not be able to suddenly decay and take away long term effort for people who put in the time.
* There are two problems. Generation and stockpiles, this applies to all currencies in the game. We are focusing on solutions to handle generation, but we will also need to handle the existing stockpiles. I think we can give this all a clean solution actually.
* Don't focus on each other so much. Direct bickering isn't going to be productive. Your statements should be general and consist of reasoning or support for your stance. You are free to debate a point of reasoning, but attacking someone because of their name or who they are is an attempt to dismiss the feedback.
Also a small idea: credits off the market autobind, and let us buy credits off the market for others (also autobind).
I have just killed 7 birds with 1 stone. Adds conflict, tears, golds inks, and more comm costs.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Guard mercenaries for gold, though!
It should be noted though that the only real infrastructure that could be damaged in either of the forests are -maybe- guildhalls (only the BT one for sure), the shop areas, and one or two more spots that are much more defensible. Essentially, Seren's library, Abeytu's garden, and maybe the Flame would be lost causes, but the shop area has 5 entrances, all hidden. Glom's library/Observatory, and the Drums would be easily targeted, but the shop area has 3 realistic entrances (though all three are more far flung than Seren's 5). If guildhalls can't be wrecked, nearly everything else could realistically just be regrown in both forests.
Buuut in order for any of that to be feasible, there would need to be a way to temporarily turn off the Avenger for org home territories, or the raid would last a grand total of ~20 minutes before everyone was Bully status and can't play anymore.
This might directly raise the cost of goods by only 5-10%, if that, but that's 10% more gold than gets sunk out of the game by economic activity now. Only Bookbinding has any real gold sink through the outlay.
Personally, I'm not a fan of any kind of Prime raiding scenario without first tackling general raid mechanics and incentives on the higher planes. You have to start somewhere, and it's not here.
*In other words: not most of artisan. Not most of jewelry. So on. These are optional 'roleplaying' trades, the use of which should be encouraged.
Require comms to build them, and fewer comms to repair them from a damaged state. Damaging the structure gives it a temporary bubble where it can't be broken for a time, giving the defending org a chance to rebuild it in the case of kick+run raids that manage to bust one, but if it isn't repaired when the shield comes down it's susceptible to being broken. At this point it loses its effect completely, but gains another shield. From broken it can be fully destroyed, requiring it to be rebuilt from scratch.
Something like it requires 100% comms to build a Thing, 25% to repair from damaged to pristine, and 50% from broken to damaged. Things cannot be built in the same room as a permanent mobile, such as a Supernal, Earth Lord, Aspect, or Sphere, nor can one be built on a Nexus object.
And I think we've had plenty of time for Hallifax/Gaudiguch to establish themselves, can we get permanent Elemental to Cosmic rifts between Fire/Vortex and Air/Continuum?
Players can trade gold, sticky or unsticky dingbats, and bound or unbound credits for others in the same list, adding aethergoop, Czigany coins, Wonder Crystals, and this dust if we get it. Rate fluctuates based on trades (too many unbound credits traded in? Rate is lessened against other items), or admin can tweak it if they think people are playing the market. Items traded in are obviously removed from circulation, as is the gold. May need to be adjusted to make sure people don't abuse it for alts.
Also, let us use gold to apply random pieces to partial curios like the CoC. Rarer sets or Rares themselves cost more.
- Consumables (tonic, candies)
- Very expensive customization options
- Manse expansion/upgrades via gold/comms
- Org buildings via gold/comms
- Cool and rare fluff items (mounts, collectibles)
- More crafting patterns/skills
More comprehensively, you could consider adding something that provides a regular maintenance and will remain enticing; for example, what if there was a "Wintergrasp" type zone, always in a state of back and forth warfare, which had heavy upkeep costs (maintain org/personal outposts, maintain guards, portals, etc) and gold-sinkish options, eg mercenary troops you can hire to assist you. This would essentially be a new conflict mechanic, one especially welcoming to single players or small groups looking to start trouble (helps fix the guard kicking problem). Resources are regularly drained from both orgs and individuals. Tangible rewards for victory, such as power or construct-like buffs or access to exclusive merchants. Maybe have special comms dropped/sold there and only there, making participation even more enticing. Both the rich and poor can play, and help out in their own ways. This is a completely made up and example system, so it's not the best or most polished example.I think something more engaging like this would be good, as it would entice people to regularly spend gold/comms. If the system is designed well, it would repeatedly encourage people to spend gold/comms and participate.
New conflict systems are really ranging far from the matter at hand. Indeed, we've tossed around some of these ideas before! That said, we could have maintenance fees for controlling villages and aetherspheres (and domoths?). If the org fails to pay, they would just go into play early.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
5 allow a minor twist (The Papyrus Socks of Tinactin) and constant waterwalking.
7 gives you faster moment speed (double sandals of haste) in your org, planes connected to your org, and half that in villages held by your org.
10 allows a major twist (Mint-Infused Socks of Camel Hair) and allow your proteges and mutual allies to path walk to you if on the same plane.
12 gives you a 5% chance to dodge mob attacks.
15 allows a huge twist (Shanth's Tabi Socks of Stalking) and allow you to stomp and mark a room, then recall to it if you're on the same plane. Bypasses monolith, no enemy territory, stopped by distortion.
20 crystals gives a gigantic twist (Muud's Crusty Socks of Shard-Devouring) and lowers your summon/move resist to 0 for mutual allies, while increasing it heavily vs enemies.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Perhaps you could bribe individuals though for village feelings, I like the RP of that.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
I wish there was a list of them all, but you can get a few matches by typing : followed by a letter. For instance, :a will bring up angry (