I'm really confused about gold into essence. Maybe this is me just not playing enough these days but why would I want to turn gold into essence to put into my nexus? The only thing I can think of is a way to bash up enough gold to buy essence to just buy yourself ascendant and that seems like a bad idea. Really turning gold into essence sounds like a good way to destabilize the ways people gather power.
If someone could raise all of it on their own why wouldn't you? I mean, it is a complete hypothetical and really dependent on the numbers but that wasn't really my point anyways. My point was that I can't come up with a compelling reason to buy essence that will make people dump their gold reserves.
Repurpose that stuff you get for focusing on a construct.
You can get lots of those particles by aetherbashing and trading the dust from beasties for them. You would have to adjust how that mechanic works, too.
Which may be a good idea, because with canny trading you can make a lot of gold from aetherdust with just two people (you don't have to actually shoot the beasts, just need 'em to die). Harder now that they ranged attack, but still possible.
Who gives out ascendant based on how much power a person personally puts into the nexus via essence?
Way back when VA only was a million power, Glomdoring said they would give it to anyone who personally raises the power themselves.
That has changed with the rising costs of ascendants though... Now, not only do you cost 2m power (assuming you're the first or second VA), you also raise the cost of the next ascendant (assuming you're the second or more). The only case I can see any org really buying into that would be if you were raise and then immediately descended, which would mean you bought VD for that amount of power.
If someone could raise all of it on their own why wouldn't you? I mean, it is a complete hypothetical and really dependent on the numbers but that wasn't really my point anyways. My point was that I can't come up with a compelling reason to buy essence that will make people dump their gold reserves.
I wouldn't look at the essence dust as a gold sink, but rather a way to remove gold from coming in. My personal guess is that either A) it will be used to flood the market with candies/tonics (in case you can't buy goop with it), or it will be used to buy aethergoop (if that option remains). Pumping it into the nexus would likely only be a fringe benefit; if you've got more tonics in the market than it can really handle, then it'll be turned into power, but it'd likely be a last resort.
Then why not sell candies, tonics, and aethergoop for gold and just get rid of some of the proposed gold rewards? What does a new currency do? Especially a new currency that runs the risk of messing up some of the other mechanical structures of the game.
Then why not sell candies, tonics, and aethergoop for gold and just get rid of some of the proposed gold rewards? What does a new currency do? Especially a new currency that runs the risk of messing up some of the other mechanical structures of the game.
Seems obvious to me, at least. If you do not make something other than gold for all these things to generate, then... they will still make gold, and gold will still be flooding the game. Sure, there will be more things to spend it on (which is good!), but it does not address how much is pouring in which is a large part of what they are trying to accomplish here.
Repurpose that stuff you get for focusing on a construct.
You can get lots of those particles by aetherbashing and trading the dust from beasties for them. You would have to adjust how that mechanic works, too.
Which may be a good idea, because with canny trading you can make a lot of gold from aetherdust with just two people (you don't have to actually shoot the beasts, just need 'em to die). Harder now that they ranged attack, but still possible.
Well right, I meant get rid of all their current uses and use that item name and description. It's not really used much, the aether particles.
Then why not sell candies, tonics, and aethergoop for gold and just get rid of some of the proposed gold rewards? What does a new currency do? Especially a new currency that runs the risk of messing up some of the other mechanical structures of the game.
This creates a fixed, static value for those items. You couldn't sell them in a shop for more than what the fixed cost was, and wouldn't want to sell too far below it for loss. Adding in a second currency nebulises the value of the tonics, candies, etc. You can price them as what you think they're worth to you, rather than what the Admin decide they're worth.
I love the admin, they rock all kinds of socks, but it's been pointed out that they don't always have a handle on the IC value of things.
I don't know if this has been mentioned even obliquely, but maybe we can trade in solstice/spring candies for this dust? 10-25 dust per charge, maybe.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Kind of frustrating to see most everybody agree that we need less gold, less comms, and then strongly disagree on any solution to get rid of them that doesn't involve them getting more free stuff.
Well, personally, I'd be happy just deleting the maps and aethermines. I don't think that's an option though, so it's better to work with what we have.
Kind of frustrating to see most everybody agree that we need less gold, less comms, and then strongly disagree on any solution to get rid of them that doesn't involve them getting more free stuff.
Understanding where everyone stands on an issue is a good thing. Plenty of folks are offering alternatives, and saying why they do or do not like the ideas that are presented. It is important for people to voice their concerns, even if some of those concerns are ultimately disregarded. It is counterproductive to wag your finger at negative feedback when the entire purpose of making a thread to discuss the topic (rather than simply implementing changes without player input) is to encourage people to point out what issues they have with something before anything is set in stone.
Well, personally, I'd be happy just deleting the maps and aethermines. I don't think that's an option though, so it's better to work with what we have.
It's the best option, but not an option.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Uh-huh, well I'm sure that lower credit prices and a more robust economy is just a sprinkle of fairy dust away. Good luck!
Will what's posted here solve everything? No, probably not. It's one step in the right direction though, since the gold influx is one part of the problem. We will likely need more gold sinks as well though before everything balances out.
Literally just deleting a bunch of gold and comms out of the game full stop won't fix the issue. If anything is 'fairy dust', it's that idea right there.
Waving a magic wand and taking away half of the available gold won't suddenly make the other half more valuable in and of itself. Even throttling gold production won't make gold all that much more valuable. And we've been told flat out that we can't just delete/cripple/refund any artifacts, so we can't address the commodity glut directly. We tried just making everything take more comms, and that didn't really dent the inflation.
Several people have stated that the main reason gold isn't really valued is that there's not a lot of value to use it for, so no gold is leaving the system except by the occasional manse expansion and beast stabling fees. Otherwise it's just a very glittery tennis ball being served from player to player. Likewise, comms are entering the system faster than they leave (FAR faster in some cases), therefore their value has fallen exponentially.
Kind of frustrating to see most everybody agree that we need less gold, less comms, and then strongly disagree on any solution to get rid of them that doesn't involve them getting more free stuff.
Welcome to the NIMBY effect. Please receive your complimentary "who will bell the cat?" storybook. Make sure to read it before the "Tragedy of the commons" discussion at 14:30.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
I mean, it really isn't in my backyard. I have sufficient artifacts that increases in commodity costs for essentials won't really impact me due to doubling sips and smokes (and I've suggested dramatically nerfing that artifact anyways), I'm not a tradesperson, I don't use comms for anything but Wildewood once in a blue moon, and I am neither a hoarder of gold nor a participant in the credit market.
In other words, I stand nothing to lose personally from deleting gold and comms out of the game. It's still not a great stand alone option, or even one in any significant sense paired with other solutions. There will come a point at which some gold and comms will need to be pulled out by fiat, but from orgs not individual players.
I mean, it really isn't in my backyard. I have sufficient artifacts that increases in commodity costs for essentials won't really impact me due to doubling sips and smokes (and I've suggested dramatically nerfing that artifact anyways), I'm not a tradesperson, I don't use comms for anything but Wildewood once in a blue moon, and I am neither a hoarder of gold nor a participant in the credit market.
In other words, I stand nothing to lose personally from deleting gold and comms out of the game. It's still not a great stand alone option, or even one in any significant sense paired with other solutions. There will come a point at which some gold and comms will need to be pulled out by fiat, but from orgs not individual players.
So why argue as if the comment is aimed at you? There's been plenty other NIMBY comments that the comment is better aimed at than your argument. And the fact that it isn't aimed at you doesn't change the fact that there's been plenty instances of the NIMBY effect in this thread.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
I mean, it really isn't in my backyard. I have sufficient artifacts that increases in commodity costs for essentials won't really impact me due to doubling sips and smokes (and I've suggested dramatically nerfing that artifact anyways), I'm not a tradesperson, I don't use comms for anything but Wildewood once in a blue moon, and I am neither a hoarder of gold nor a participant in the credit market.
In other words, I stand nothing to lose personally from deleting gold and comms out of the game. It's still not a great stand alone option, or even one in any significant sense paired with other solutions. There will come a point at which some gold and comms will need to be pulled out by fiat, but from orgs not individual players.
So why argue as if the comment is aimed at you? There's been plenty other NIMBY comments that the comment is better aimed at than your argument. And the fact that it isn't aimed at you doesn't change the fact that there's been plenty instances of the NIMBY effect in this thread.
There's a huge difference between "These are problems I see with an idea and how I'd like to see it addressed" vs. just "NIMBY". For example, the only things I've personally stated I was unequivocally against was: 1) Just stealing gold from players, and 2) Making shrines cost gold to build in a players' own territory, because of inherent differences in balance therein.
I also don't think it's constructive to just go after the players themselves and declare that they are "strongly against any ideas" as if they're just railing against things without any reason to do so.
If you've got an idea and you think it's good, I believe that you should be able to support it via arguments in favour of it rather than just trying to go after those who don't agree.
And if you don't even have any ideas and just want to comment to go after people directly, you probably shouldn't be in the thread. Participate, don't /divert.
Well, personally, I'd be happy just deleting the maps and aethermines. I don't think that's an option though, so it's better to work with what we have.
Honestly, so long as I was refunded what I put into them, I wouldn't even be mad and I know at least one other who has a lot of mines who is the same way. But far as I can tell taking them out of the game is not an option so again stressing putting value back into commodities. What kinds of things could comm cost be added to or things be added that comms could be used for to bring them into demand.
The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."
Adding large gold costs that primarily hit orgs probably won't help much, as all orgs have enormous gold stockpiles that are, counterintuitively, not really a problem, because they don't move. Gold that ends up in org coffers is gold that by and large isn't contributing to the inflation problem. The same applies to gold costs that would primarily hit personal stockpilers. Ideally, gold sinks should be available and attractive to as many individuals as possible.
Comm sinks, on the other hand, make a lot of sense to hit orgs, since theoretically they're tithed comms from villages and players can always sell comms to orgs. I'm not sure how well this would counterbalance the enormous glut of comms flooding in from mines and the like, but it would hopefully help at least. One problem I can imagine is, facing comm deficits, orgs up the amount of gold they buy commodities for, encouraging private commodity suppliers to sell comms to their org. But now the huge stockpiles I mentioned above are entering play, and now more gold is getting dropped into the economy.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
Comments
Which may be a good idea, because with canny trading you can make a lot of gold from aetherdust with just two people (you don't have to actually shoot the beasts, just need 'em to die). Harder now that they ranged attack, but still possible.
I wouldn't look at the essence dust as a gold sink, but rather a way to remove gold from coming in. My personal guess is that either A) it will be used to flood the market with candies/tonics (in case you can't buy goop with it), or
This creates a fixed, static value for those items. You couldn't sell them in a shop for more than what the fixed cost was, and wouldn't want to sell too far below it for loss. Adding in a second currency nebulises the value of the tonics, candies, etc. You can price them as what you think they're worth to you, rather than what the Admin decide they're worth.
I love the admin, they rock all kinds of socks, but it's been pointed out that they don't always have a handle on the IC value of things.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Vive l'apostrophe!
Several people have stated that the main reason gold isn't really valued is that there's not a lot of value to use it for, so no gold is leaving the system except by the occasional manse expansion and beast stabling fees. Otherwise it's just a very glittery tennis ball being served from player to player. Likewise, comms are entering the system faster than they leave (FAR faster in some cases), therefore their value has fallen exponentially.
In other words, I stand nothing to lose personally from deleting gold and comms out of the game. It's still not a great stand alone option, or even one in any significant sense paired with other solutions. There will come a point at which some gold and comms will need to be pulled out by fiat, but from orgs not individual players.
1) Just stealing gold from players, and
2) Making shrines cost gold to build in a players' own territory, because of inherent differences in balance therein.
I also don't think it's constructive to just go after the players themselves and declare that they are "strongly against any ideas" as if they're just railing against things without any reason to do so.
If you've got an idea and you think it's good, I believe that you should be able to support it via arguments in favour of it rather than just trying to go after those who don't agree.
And if you don't even have any ideas and just want to comment to go after people directly, you probably shouldn't be in the thread. Participate, don't /divert.
Comm sinks, on the other hand, make a lot of sense to hit orgs, since theoretically they're tithed comms from villages and players can always sell comms to orgs. I'm not sure how well this would counterbalance the enormous glut of comms flooding in from mines and the like, but it would hopefully help at least. One problem I can imagine is, facing comm deficits, orgs up the amount of gold they buy commodities for, encouraging private commodity suppliers to sell comms to their org. But now the huge stockpiles I mentioned above are entering play, and now more gold is getting dropped into the economy.