I appreciate you coming out with confirmation of cult recruitment, particularly since this saves me the headache of trying to persuade people there is a cult despite feeling like there's been hints in that direction going all the way back to the very first post in the game.
At the same time, however, you must admit that your tone and attitude seem to have taken a shift. Like, really, is it -that- surprising there is cult recruitment going on? Maybe you have just had some exceptionally bad cult game experiences, and you really were hoping with all hopes that there was going to be no cult recruitment in this game. However, I can't help but feel that all this posturing with Tremula is an act.
This is relevant because I've seen several situations where hatred/sycophancy with the mod was a scum tactic employed to leverage attention from where it needed to be, and I've seen it done very successfully at that. Especially since, depending on how you angle it, there's no way for the mod to really respond back without unintentionally ruining you. You might say we're in "bastardmod country" but you're sure being a bastard player about it. If you can't keep it to yourself until the final curtain call from this point forward, I WILL be leveraging this against you as a premeditated tactic on your part.
Then there's this lying issue. We've just sort of accepted, okay, you weren't being wholly honest. You were upfront about being dishonest. But then again, when was it you admitted you were lying? Oh, right. It was when I was fretting over my episode with the mirror and wanted to know if you were going to pick up anything on it. Your next response to this is, what again? That your power got nerfed because you asked the mod to nerf it when you supposedly don't know all the elements in play for/against you. Maybe it's just because it was me you were answering to, but this feels really, really convenient.
If you're going to act like you supposedly know all the elements in play for/against you, we have to assume you are one of the people with the most information regarding what's going on in the game. And those roles are basically always scum - information is always the edge of scum. It's how they win when all other factors fall equal. It's also why the consigliere is one of the scariest roles.
Now we have to ask ourselves, what else could you have been lying about? I mean, there could be another surprise just around the corner that we don't know about. We're going to have to assume this might be possible now.
You've been saying you've been protecting yourself every night, but we still have no explanation for what gave Portius amnesia. It may be you are lying about this nerfing of your power altogether, in order to provide an excuse for not watching me... or perhaps you are the very reason for my episode with the mirror and wanted to leave no possible connection available?
Or maybe you've been unable to target multiple people all along, and that was meant to be a ruse to scare scum. Either way, I'm going to expect a few things from you. First, no more lying. If you have any lies currently running rampant right now, you will share them immediately. I also want a full accounting of your power use - especially from before it was nerfed. Who all have you used it on over the course of the game? These are important details, especially if we're going to look specifically for the cult head.
We are in an incredibly uncomfortable situation with this Zoroark and you. At first, I was just kind of hoping that my long term suspicions of you in this game were just paranoia, and that your immediate desire to acquire Zoroark as soon as Alec captured it was just... a fluke of some sort. I was easing up a little with Phoebus' reassurance, but good grief.
The fact remains that you are, in essence, an information gathering role as well. I think you have been generally forthright about your targets, but I will ask for your cooperation and that you produce a full list of your night actions, not just to account for yourself but also as a cross-reference against Thul.
Additionally, I will point out that @Phoebus and you both have basically been assumed to be town due to being paired. However, we must accept the reality that, while a doctor is normally a strong town claim, in our current environment it would also make sense that the Chosen could potentially have had a doctor on their side this entire time. It would do a lot to help them get past all these crazy killing powers/roles. As such, I also request that Phoebus provide a full accounting for her night actions. She has been granted a great bit of sanction with not needing to disclose up until now, but at this point, does that sanction benefit town or scum more?
Finally, @Illein, you are also an info-gathering role of sorts. For the sake of congruence, can you mirror my request for Thul and Othero and provide as complete an account of who you have observed and what you have seen?
I may be going back over other dumps of night actions as I am able on my own - I know Melali has gone over his path of night actions several different times now and will try to dig that up myself rather than bother him for it again.
Haha, ok. You wanna know who I've protected? Othero. He was my random hunch target on the first night, and then it came out the next day that he was a watcher, and being a confirmed, useful info role, I protected him again, uncertain if he was town, but not having any real reason to distrust him. I saved him from dying that night, so I took that as evidence enough that he wasn't on the killers' side; furthermore, any suspicions that he might be third party were erased once Luce confirmed our alignments matched. He became one of the only people I actually felt I was able to fully trust the alignment of, and has provided information that directly leads us to eliminating enemies, so...yeah.
Othero has been my target every night, save for last night and two nights before that, when I switched things up a little by protecting Ssaliss instead. I was torn between Othero, Ssaliss, and Luce the night that Luce died and will kick myself eternally that I didn't pick the right one when it mattered. 33% chance! Dang.
I found it extremely amusing that Luce paired me with Othero when I've basically been his dedicated nurse this entire time. I bet Zoroark killed Ssaliss because he was jealous I was checking up on someone else. (nb: That's a joke.) I do wish it'd taken out Thul instead, because everything about that Pokemon power is balls and it needs to go, and extra vote power is an enormous threat in the event he has been/will be converted. Daytime is basically our only chance to get rid of him if we feel it's necessary, and we could've done so without wasting a lynch, but no. What a waste.
...
Missed strategic opportunities aside, I still think you need to go down today, Vivet. Your convenient resurrection by moon power after dramatically orchestrating your own demise reeks of baloney. You wanted to die, and I don't think it was luck that you came back. And even if you weren't scum on rez, the moment everyone bought into your story thanks to Sylandra's dubious thumbs up, you became a great target for conversion.
But you know what my current theory is, @Vivet? You are the Chosen yourself, having sacrificed yourself with full knowledge you might be coming back as such; Sylandra did say she knew who it was but wasn't telling us, and she'd just taken a look at you. Like I said before, she wouldn't have told us if she saw you'd turned into Evil PokeJesus, because she needed Kalaneya to be lynched that day in order to win. She said that she was rewarding the Chosen for playing well, and y'know, this play of yours is working pretty darn well, if I'm right. I think it's you, and there's really only one way to be sure.
When we take you out again, I'm using a bigger rock. That is on the boat for some reason. Maybe I'll fish up a Relicanth to bean you with. Maybe I'll pick my Pokemon up and clobber you with him. He might not have an offensive ability, but he's still a rock and you moon people are giving him a bad name and he has to save his public image.
Yeah, I'll say what my Pokemon is now, why not. I have the counterpart to the late Ssaliss' Solrock, Lunatone. He does exactly what you think he'd do: turn day to night, instantly. Useless in my hands, super dangerous in scum's hands. I played him down hard at the start of the game so no one would try to get him, but I think I'm safe to reveal his existence now, especially since some people seem to be doubting my trustworthiness at this point. This is why I haven't jumped on any trades despite complaining about my Pokemon at the start. Even though I have zero reason to use it, I just can't trust anyone else with his ability.
tl;dr: I like protecting Othero. We should kill Vivet. I have a rock.
Night 1: I was jailed by Melali, as I've previously stated. Night 2: I watched Rolsand, who placed a doll in Cyndarin's room, then was knocked out and injected with something by a blurry figure I could not recognize. Night 3: I watched Lehki, who instructed his minions to kill Melali, was visited by ghosts, had his Togepi poisoned and paralyzed, and had Cen show up in his compartment to play with his Togepi. At the end of the night, the door opened and a dark figure appeared in the doorway before the compartment flooded with thick smoke. Night 4: I watched Thul, and learned nothing whatsoever. Night 5: I watched Lehki again, and also learned nothing. This was the night he had his weird mystical communications, though, so apparently my techno-watchery doesn't have any impact on culty stuff. Night 6: I watched Krackenor, who had an argument and then visited Kaimanahi's car, where he discovered her bruised and dead body. Night 7: I watched Phoebus, who watched funny Pokemon videos before roaming around the ship to find her target-- which she has now claimed was Othero. Night 8: I watched Othero, who left his cabin for a long period of time, untracked by GPS. When he returned he worked out. I will note that I did not see Phoebus visit Othero, though perhaps she visited him while he was out and about.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
Night 8: I watched Othero, who left his cabin for a long period of time, untracked by GPS. When he returned he worked out. I will note that I did not see Phoebus visit Othero, though perhaps she visited him while he was out and about.
Night 8: I watched Othero, who left his cabin for a long period of time, untracked by GPS. When he returned he worked out. I will note that I did not see Phoebus visit Othero, though perhaps she visited him while he was out and about.
Last night I visited Ssaliss, not Othero.
D'oh you're right I misread your post. That explains it!
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
I'm not convinced that Vivet is the Chosen, but I'm open to a lynch. The resurrection is inherently suspicious. On the other hand, Vivet being the Chosen means that either the Chosen was a late game addition the only triggered after the resurrection, or that Chosen doesn't get revealed on death. Both of those are possible, but I don't think either of them are likely. Triggering on resurrection makes it fairly likely that the Chosen will get killed again (because ex-scum rising from the dead is suspicious) before she can do anything. I think that makes it unlikely for something that's supposed to be a major game mechanic. Chosen not getting revealed on death and getting to rise from the dead breaks pretty much every town assumption for Mafia. It could happen, but it breaks the game so thoroughly that most normal assumptions become invalid. If we're assuming that a cult recruiter can die, come back from the dead, and flip as a different type of the scum, we kind of have to assume that there are no trustworthy sources of mod information. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't think we should operate on the belief that there's something that game-breaking in play.
But I'm still open to a lynch because I could be wrong about that very easily, and also because Vivet is one of the most obvious choices for cult recruitment.
-------
Now, @Thul. If we're worried about him, we can take a lot of his power away with a trade. That doesn't solve the problem if we think he's the recruiter, but it does make him a lot less useful to the cult. Might be a good idea if we're going to lynch someone else but we're still not feeling great about him. Note that when he thought he was going to die, he said to lynch anyone except me that took his pokemon. I probably can get more use out of it than any other townie, since it should prevent me from getting redirected into anyone during a kill attempt.
That having been said, I have a Haunter. Haunter evolves when traded. At least he does in other games; I don't know if trade evolutions are included in this or not. There's a very real chance that I could hand him a Gengar. I don't know if we want to risk that if we don't trust him. Gengar might be awful. He might be amazing. He might not be an issue at all, depending on how evolution works. There's a lot of unknowns there. We could bypass that with a sequence of trades, though. I trade Haunter to someone with an awful pokemon. We see if he evolves and decide where Gengar should go, assuming that he does. Following that, I trade the awful one to Thul. That chain gets me the Gardevoir and removes the risk of him getting something amazing, but we'd probably want to pick the intermediate trade very carefully. Thoughts?
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
The Chosen thing is just a theory, honestly. I think it may have been possible that the cult leaders were competing to become the Chosen, and Vivet got the honor/rebirth because the Lunala cult won. But it's really just speculation, and there might actually be a different player Chosen like we've been led to believe. Either way, I think Vivet should be the one who dies today.
I don't think Thul should trade his Pokemon away, especially not to you. Sorry Portius, but I can't trust you. Vigilante is an excellent conversion target, and I don't exactly feel comfortable letting you have your kill and the broken monster. Even though it would make great strategic sense for Thul to accept conversion if he's playing to win, I'm more willing to believe he chose to deny it than I am to risk someone who's potentially already a cultist turning into a powerhouse.
Yeah I really doubt that Vivet is the Chosen. Scum, possibly. But Chosen, no. It's too convoluted and messy (Portius explains exactly how above, and I agree).
I also don't totally love that we're hounding the MAYOR for crying out loud, but whoever pointed out that Thul's behaviour has changed was right. I've noticed it too. It may be that this is just because he's role-revealed and this is now his mayoral persona..? I don't know. But if we want to strip him of his OP pokemon just in case, I can get behind that (I also don't want to trade at all, so it's up to the rest of you guys to figure out the details of how it's done).
Someone has to have crazy theories since Ushaara's gone, and I'm happy to take up that mantle. I'm not 100% sold on Vivet = Chosen myself, but I like it and want it to be true, and it lets me dramatically point fingers which is always fun. It won't disrupt my game in any way if it isn't correct. :P I hope people don't get too hung up on it, I gave plenty of other reasons why Vivet is our best choice to lynch today.
The Luce = Shaymin thing is totally right, though. I won't accept otherwise.
As much as I hate the thing, if Thul continues to deny conversion we're best off letting him keep his Pokemon. Otherwise that's an opening for cult to snag double vote power. If he allows them to convert him, that sucks. If he already did, that sucks too. But at least while it's still alive and in his hands, there's a chance he'll say no, and that's better than zero chance. I can accept this, so letting it live and stay with Thul is probably our best play.
I would like to know what the deal is with people who shouldn't be getting amnesia ending up with it, though. Something's amiss, either with the stories people are giving, or the actual specifics of the ability causing it to happen.
There's been a shift in my tone, yes. It's because I've been immensely frustrated. I was under the impression that this game was won. Town had been lynching only scum, including third party ones with high-power abilities, and I figured that we had only one or two left to go after the undying Lehki left the field. It's established on other boards that cults are... questionably balanced. Apparently the only way to beat them is to catch them early. So I'm going from "this is a sure-fire win" to "we're going through the motions before we lose."
There's also been some personal frustration with my mon. Ralts could use his ability on one person (two-day delay instead of one,) Kirlia could use her ability on two people and when it accidentally saved Lehki from Portius, I was told it was a "hidden power." Gardevoir is back down to one person per night, and I literally do not understand what the tertiary benefit of it is. I'm under the distinct impression I'm being rebalanced on the fly.
So yeah, I've been pissed. And yeah, I'm personally upset about some of the mechanics. And yes, I've been an asshole. And I know that none of the above excuses that. >_> I'll drop a round of apologies and probably vanish off the boards for a bit after the game, because I'm never proud of the results when I get angry.
----
There's stuff other people have posted that I really should address in more detail, but kinda in a low state here and handling some social obligations besides. I'm hoping Dylara lives unconverted through the night for an autopsy revelation, but I've got a nagging suspicion that I screwed up picking a fight with Ssaliss and pissed off a lot of people in the process for no good reason.
@Portius, initial inclination is no. I trust you most out of the rest, but kinda trust myself the most. Sorry. Not sounding like the others think it's a good idea either, though... I'll give it some time and see if that changes. Then... uh. Nobody seems to have a useless Pokemon to give up, so might wanna get that arranged.
Vivet's my default lynch right now, more for the suspicious resurrection than any behavioral stuff.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
As an aside: I hope no one judges anyone primarily based on their mafia persona! I definitely do not judge Thul, Krackenor, etc based on that, at least. We gotta play to win here! WE ARE NOT HERE TO MAKE FRIENDS etc etc. Everything we say is strategic until proven otherwise.
This is Mafia: Where You Vote All Your Friends Off the Island! Let's be petty as we please, and then shake hands post-game like good sports. Until then...
[/skips back off to the winner's circle, cackling evil cackles of glee]
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I'm under the distinct impression I'm being rebalanced on the fly.
Hey, I can understand this causing frustration, don't worry. I had my own moment of getting a little too frustrated earlier in the game when Rolsand claimed to have had his power changed. Clarifications are one thing, but I am not a fan of the game's rules and balance changing while it's already in progress. If something went in totally bonkers and has been used already, it should stay totally bonkers forever. Making changes while the game's running should be reserved for huge, potentially game-destroying oversights only, not every single instance of "on second thought, it probably would be more fair if it worked like this instead." The game is in progress. If a moderator decides that their setup is polished and finished enough to roll out, they should be prepared to accept their mistakes and remain an observer when it turns out not everything is working as planned.
Going in after the fact and tinkering with the mechanics is unfair to the players, and I'm disappointed every time someone mentions on the fly re-balancing. We're supposed to be playing against each other, not against the whims of the moderator.
So, I think right now, I'll go ahead and tell you all something. My little "Night will always triumph!" back when I got lynched the first go around was a quote. It's one of the death rattles for Nox, from Smite. I just threw it in there for fun and giggles, because why not?
... but here is Phoebus, hinging on it and creating this elaborate scenario.
And here I am, imagining it getting fleshed out into an even fuller form.
Just imagine, if you will. Phoebus was the one to kill Vivet when she was the cult head of Lunaala. Vivet has since been resurrected by Lunaala and cast aside, left to struggle back against the cult she helped to form... and here comes Phoebus again, hinging on those very last words and echoing them mockingly while bludgeoning Vivet to death with a Lunatone.
Like. Really. Seriously?
That is hilarious. And horrible. It has so many little facets of irony and everything, it doesn't even matter what Phoebus' current alignment is. I almost want to see it happen, and see Tremula write it out that way. It would be wonderfully drama-tastic and be a true forums mafia legend.
I think I'm going to need a little time to regain my bearings and actually try to focus seriously on the game again, ahahaha.
In the meantime, I guess it's fine if Thul ignores my request and relaxes a while. At this point, I'm not thinking he is the Chosen, though there may be a good chance he has been recruited (perhaps recruited despite the protection of his power, which I can definitely see being rage-inducing).
I'll still really want Othero to report in and confirm what Phoebus has said while laying out his own night activities.
I already said that my elaborate theorizing isn't an important piece of my reasoning for voting for you, don't get caught up in that. It's the best option today, regardless! Your story is the least believable out of everyone's right now, and with how readily people accepted Sylandra's vouching for your innocence, true or not, you're a great conversion target for scum. If we lynch and we're wrong, we're not really losing anyone important, and we do have to pick someone to kill.
Is pushing for the best option really so suspicious? Was the dramatic speculation really so off-putting? I'd love my mad theory to be true, but I know there's a good chance it isn't, and have said as much. If I end up under fire because I wanted to have fun with a little wild speculation instead of dragging my feet for the rest of the game, well. I'll be sad!
(If we lynch you and you don't die by Lunatone beatdown, I'm going to be so disappointed.)
Oh, yes, and who all was having the nightmares, again? And are the nightmares recurring?
I had a single night of troubled sleep due to visions of waterlogged corpses, the night before last. It does not appear to be recurring, as I slept fine last night. This morning, Portius and Ssaliss reported having maritime corpse dreams last night.
Okay. If two people experienced the corpse dreams last night, then it probably isn't an arsonist mark type thing like I'm thinking. We do know Ssaliss was town, however, and would have had no reason to lie about them occurring. Hmm.
Also, regardless of whether or not I'm important, you must consider that we are now down to 11 players. It takes six to lynch. So right now six is a majority... how many cultists do you think there are at this time? We've kept apace so to say, but losing Ssaliss before we even get to lynch is like losing another phase.
If we lose me while I am still town, that drops the number to 10. Then another conversion can happen tonight... if Portius or Othero murder the wrong people over night, that is liable to be game over for town, I think.
This is why I was asking about MyLo and LyLo status being announced. Though, to be fair, with all the killing and conversions under play, it is probably too difficult for Trem to really say. Nevermind what these nightmares may or may not be.
We have the 31st as a deadline, so there's still plenty of time to deliberate. And to wait on the information I want.
Actually, I'm not sure if we know Ssaliss was town. It only said he was a personal invite of the Champion, which doesn't actually tell us anything about his alignment status after the trip was already underway. Now that we know there's conversion in play, I think this wording may be intentionally vague...fun. So much uncertainty, ugh.
And yes, I do realize we're in a dangerous spot when it comes to lynches, which is exactly why I want to lynch the most suspicious person, who'd also happen to be the least impactful mislynch in the event of innocence. Any mislynch will hurt, so I'd prefer to minimize our potential losses, if we can.
I sincerely doubt some revelation that changes this situation is going to come up in the meantime, but if people want to wait, that's fine, as long as actual discussion happens.
And I believe Othero said that was Zoroark's only kill, and even if he's lying about that I doubt he'd be able to use it right away again tonight, so we probably don't have to worry about any more misfires from that direction any time soon.
Trying to find relevant posts in the first few days is always a pain in the ass... anyways, I dug this up just for you, Phoebus.
<><><>
"Two corpses were found in their cars today. Alary, the Magistrate, was found stabbed in the back. He was a personal invitation of the Champion. Rolsand, the Creepy Boy, was found bashed over the head and poisoned. He was a personal invitation of the Champion."
<><><>
Generally, we get notified when someone is distinctly tied to Lunaala or Solgaleo. There seem to be some exceptions - in Weiwae's case, he was just "a tragic terrorist". In Kilee's case, we were directly informed that they were a serial killer, then Kaimanahi's reveal specifically stated Witch.
Personal invite of the Champion seems to imply either a third party of some flavour, or most definitely a member of the town. I see no reason to believe that a convert can reveal as personal invite just yet. This is a bit of a bold assumption on your part, don't you think?
No, nothing so serious as a bold assumption, just caution with a dash of paranoia. I'm well aware it's been the same message this whole time, and I've always thought it was an odd way of stating that someone isn't scum-aligned. The wording is definitely unusual, and now that this conversion business has started up, I can't help but be a little suspicious of it.
Like many things I am cautious of, I am in no way saying it 100% must be the case, just that the possibility shouldn't be discounted. We were told that small, easily overlooked details would be important in this game, so I'm keeping an eye out.
I do notice you are attempting to restate everything I'm saying in a more radical fashion than I'm actually saying it. This is not the first time I have been hypercautious about small details, but it is the first time you're drawing so much attention to it. Are you attempting to deflect suspicion back onto me because I believe you are the best target for today?
If you don't think I am paranoid as well, you are mistaken. Mostly, I am bothered by the lack of interjection between us. It's like everyone else has backed off and is purposely avoiding introducing their own thoughts. And I know a few have been lurking around...
But anyways, bed time for me now. Hopefully I will have Othero's night actions by morning.
In order I've watched Sylandra, Krackenor, Salome, Cen, Kaleneya, Lehki, Dylara, and Thul.
I never saw Sylandra do anything but I did see Krackenor that night. On Krackenor's night I saw him watch someone's door, I also saw Cyndarin scan his pokemon. I forgot about this but someone's Sylbeon attacked him that night. I was also stabbed that night. I watched Salome go to Melali's cabin with a knife. I saw Cen talk with Allyrianne and Cyndarin in Cyndarin's cabin. I saw Kaleneya go to the medical car on the train. Lehki slept all night. I watched Dylara go to the medical car and perform an autopsy. Thul stayed in his room and nothing happened to him. I did not get amnesia watching him.
If you don't think I am paranoid as well, you are mistaken. Mostly, I am bothered by the lack of interjection between us. It's like everyone else has backed off and is purposely avoiding introducing their own thoughts. And I know a few have been lurking around...
But anyways, bed time for me now. Hopefully I will have Othero's night actions by morning.
To be honest, there's too much for me to grapple with right now; I don't feel like I have a handle on who's suspicious and why beyond my gut feeling, because too much is going on in this game right now (that and my powers have been singularly unhelpful).
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
Mostly, I am bothered by the lack of interjection between us. It's like everyone else has backed off and is purposely avoiding introducing their own thoughts. And I know a few have been lurking around...
Yeah, hence my comment earlier about being fine with waiting as long as people actually talk. Lurkers abound in these uncertain times.
I hope it's not taken as the two of us being hyper-aggressive, as opposed to not having anyone else joining in on the discussion. Being your temporary budget nemesis is more posting than I've been doing since the first couple days of this game. I drank a cup of coffee at midnight and have nothing else going on tonight, so I've just been a-postin' away, probably making myself look suspicious because I talk a lot when I'm caffeinated and can't always tell how what I'm saying is coming off to others even when I'm not jittery and sleep deprived.
(I wish I could say talking too much isn't what usually gets me killed in forums mafia regardless of my faction, but that would be false. One of the reasons why I watch more than I play.)
I hope it's not taken as the two of us being hyper-aggressive, as opposed to not having anyone else joining in on the discussion. Being your temporary budget nemesis is more posting than I've been doing since the first couple days of this game. I drank a cup of coffee at midnight and have nothing else going on tonight, so I've just been a-postin' away, probably making myself look suspicious because I talk a lot when I'm caffeinated and can't always tell how what I'm saying is coming off to others even when I'm not jittery and sleep deprived.
Oh, no. Don't worry about it. I'm seeing exactly what I was expecting to see. And while I am noticing some other very interesting coincidences (such as Othero visiting upon Sylandra on the very first night alongside you always knowing to protect him, Ssaliss having nightmares after you visit him, etc.), you know what?
I believe you. I'm ready to accept that both you and Othero and members of the town.
Why's that, you say? Well, because you wouldn't have revealed/restated what you have if you were.
Well, now you might ask, "Vivet, just what is that?"
And here is the most delicious part of all. The real clincher.
I can't tell you.
What? But why can't I tell you?
I am no mere vanilla role. Not only am I powerless, but due to a few decisions I've made along the way, I am now powerless with restrictions.
Oh, and what restrictions are those, exactly?
Can't tell.
Now, you might say, "C'mon, Vivet. That is completely and utterly ridiculous. Now we have to lynch you."
To which I will now say...
Go on.
The fact of the matter is, I have indeed indicated and and forced certain points up to the surface. I've wrapped this all up nice and pretty, and bound it with a big red ribbon for you. But... I can't open it. That is what you are meant to do.
If you can't figure it out, or deduce that I am full of shit, then I am doomed either way. They'll come for me if you don't. I know they're already kind of pissed over my BS. Dying during the day is probably going to be more pleasant... probably.
If you do this, and I die, and the cult wins after all I've struggled to accomplish and done, I will laugh. Laugh, laugh, and laugh like the madwoman I have been swiftly degrading into.
And I think there is a very good chance, because I'm very certain that there are at least three cultists right now. Possibly up to five, but not likely. Four may be very plausible too. It's so hard to tell for sure when I'm not actually in the mafia, though!
Either way, if I die and the cult doesn't win by the next day, you might need to review what went on today. It'll still be here, waiting to be noticed. The win will still be within your grasp so long as you can look and vote!
And let's face it, this lynch scenario you and I have drummed up together is just too tempting for me.
So now the greatest game of Chicken begins, and Vivet's telling you right now she isn't going to jump.
Vote: Vivet
(@Kalaneya wanted you all to believe that the biggest troll move she could have committed with a resurrection was bringing back Rolsand. LOL. Are you having fun watching this, dearie?)
Ok, I need to take a few hours to process Vivet's post. This is the trolliest of games.
But going back to the discussion on if we can trust Ssaliss' flip or not, Allyrianne specifically flipped as a traitor. I took that to mean that she was a cult convert, and that they would all flip as such.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
Comments
@Thul
I appreciate you coming out with confirmation of cult recruitment, particularly since this saves me the headache of trying to persuade people there is a cult despite feeling like there's been hints in that direction going all the way back to the very first post in the game.
At the same time, however, you must admit that your tone and attitude seem to have taken a shift. Like, really, is it -that- surprising there is cult recruitment going on? Maybe you have just had some exceptionally bad cult game experiences, and you really were hoping with all hopes that there was going to be no cult recruitment in this game. However, I can't help but feel that all this posturing with Tremula is an act.
This is relevant because I've seen several situations where hatred/sycophancy with the mod was a scum tactic employed to leverage attention from where it needed to be, and I've seen it done very successfully at that. Especially since, depending on how you angle it, there's no way for the mod to really respond back without unintentionally ruining you. You might say we're in "bastardmod country" but you're sure being a bastard player about it. If you can't keep it to yourself until the final curtain call from this point forward, I WILL be leveraging this against you as a premeditated tactic on your part.
Then there's this lying issue. We've just sort of accepted, okay, you weren't being wholly honest. You were upfront about being dishonest. But then again, when was it you admitted you were lying? Oh, right. It was when I was fretting over my episode with the mirror and wanted to know if you were going to pick up anything on it. Your next response to this is, what again? That your power got nerfed because you asked the mod to nerf it when you supposedly don't know all the elements in play for/against you. Maybe it's just because it was me you were answering to, but this feels really, really convenient.
If you're going to act like you supposedly know all the elements in play for/against you, we have to assume you are one of the people with the most information regarding what's going on in the game. And those roles are basically always scum - information is always the edge of scum. It's how they win when all other factors fall equal. It's also why the consigliere is one of the scariest roles.
Now we have to ask ourselves, what else could you have been lying about? I mean, there could be another surprise just around the corner that we don't know about. We're going to have to assume this might be possible now.
You've been saying you've been protecting yourself every night, but we still have no explanation for what gave Portius amnesia. It may be you are lying about this nerfing of your power altogether, in order to provide an excuse for not watching me... or perhaps you are the very reason for my episode with the mirror and wanted to leave no possible connection available?
Or maybe you've been unable to target multiple people all along, and that was meant to be a ruse to scare scum. Either way, I'm going to expect a few things from you. First, no more lying. If you have any lies currently running rampant right now, you will share them immediately. I also want a full accounting of your power use - especially from before it was nerfed. Who all have you used it on over the course of the game? These are important details, especially if we're going to look specifically for the cult head.
@Othero
We are in an incredibly uncomfortable situation with this Zoroark and you. At first, I was just kind of hoping that my long term suspicions of you in this game were just paranoia, and that your immediate desire to acquire Zoroark as soon as Alec captured it was just... a fluke of some sort. I was easing up a little with Phoebus' reassurance, but good grief.
The fact remains that you are, in essence, an information gathering role as well. I think you have been generally forthright about your targets, but I will ask for your cooperation and that you produce a full list of your night actions, not just to account for yourself but also as a cross-reference against Thul.
Additionally, I will point out that @Phoebus and you both have basically been assumed to be town due to being paired. However, we must accept the reality that, while a doctor is normally a strong town claim, in our current environment it would also make sense that the Chosen could potentially have had a doctor on their side this entire time. It would do a lot to help them get past all these crazy killing powers/roles. As such, I also request that Phoebus provide a full accounting for her night actions. She has been granted a great bit of sanction with not needing to disclose up until now, but at this point, does that sanction benefit town or scum more?
Finally, @Illein, you are also an info-gathering role of sorts. For the sake of congruence, can you mirror my request for Thul and Othero and provide as complete an account of who you have observed and what you have seen?
I may be going back over other dumps of night actions as I am able on my own - I know Melali has gone over his path of night actions several different times now and will try to dig that up myself rather than bother him for it again.
Othero has been my target every night, save for last night and two nights before that, when I switched things up a little by protecting Ssaliss instead. I was torn between Othero, Ssaliss, and Luce the night that Luce died and will kick myself eternally that I didn't pick the right one when it mattered. 33% chance! Dang.
I found it extremely amusing that Luce paired me with Othero when I've basically been his dedicated nurse this entire time. I bet Zoroark killed Ssaliss because he was jealous I was checking up on someone else. (nb: That's a joke.) I do wish it'd taken out Thul instead, because everything about that Pokemon power is balls and it needs to go, and extra vote power is an enormous threat in the event he has been/will be converted. Daytime is basically our only chance to get rid of him if we feel it's necessary, and we could've done so without wasting a lynch, but no. What a waste.
...
Missed strategic opportunities aside, I still think you need to go down today, Vivet. Your convenient resurrection by moon power after dramatically orchestrating your own demise reeks of baloney. You wanted to die, and I don't think it was luck that you came back. And even if you weren't scum on rez, the moment everyone bought into your story thanks to Sylandra's dubious thumbs up, you became a great target for conversion.
But you know what my current theory is, @Vivet? You are the Chosen yourself, having sacrificed yourself with full knowledge you might be coming back as such; Sylandra did say she knew who it was but wasn't telling us, and she'd just taken a look at you. Like I said before, she wouldn't have told us if she saw you'd turned into Evil PokeJesus, because she needed Kalaneya to be lynched that day in order to win. She said that she was rewarding the Chosen for playing well, and y'know, this play of yours is working pretty darn well, if I'm right. I think it's you, and there's really only one way to be sure.
When we take you out again, I'm using a bigger rock. That is on the boat for some reason. Maybe I'll fish up a Relicanth to bean you with. Maybe I'll pick my Pokemon up and clobber you with him. He might not have an offensive ability, but he's still a rock and you moon people are giving him a bad name and he has to save his public image.
Yeah, I'll say what my Pokemon is now, why not. I have the counterpart to the late Ssaliss' Solrock, Lunatone. He does exactly what you think he'd do: turn day to night, instantly. Useless in my hands, super dangerous in scum's hands. I played him down hard at the start of the game so no one would try to get him, but I think I'm safe to reveal his existence now, especially since some people seem to be doubting my trustworthiness at this point. This is why I haven't jumped on any trades despite complaining about my Pokemon at the start. Even though I have zero reason to use it, I just can't trust anyone else with his ability.
tl;dr: I like protecting Othero. We should kill Vivet. I have a rock.
Night 1: I was jailed by Melali, as I've previously stated.
Night 2: I watched Rolsand, who placed a doll in Cyndarin's room, then was knocked out and injected with something by a blurry figure I could not recognize.
Night 3: I watched Lehki, who instructed his minions to kill Melali, was visited by ghosts, had his Togepi poisoned and paralyzed, and had Cen show up in his compartment to play with his Togepi. At the end of the night, the door opened and a dark figure appeared in the doorway before the compartment flooded with thick smoke.
Night 4: I watched Thul, and learned nothing whatsoever.
Night 5: I watched Lehki again, and also learned nothing. This was the night he had his weird mystical communications, though, so apparently my techno-watchery doesn't have any impact on culty stuff.
Night 6: I watched Krackenor, who had an argument and then visited Kaimanahi's car, where he discovered her bruised and dead body.
Night 7: I watched Phoebus, who watched funny Pokemon videos before roaming around the ship to find her target-- which she has now claimed was Othero.
Night 8: I watched Othero, who left his cabin for a long period of time, untracked by GPS. When he returned he worked out. I will note that I did not see Phoebus visit Othero, though perhaps she visited him while he was out and about.
But I'm still open to a lynch because I could be wrong about that very easily, and also because Vivet is one of the most obvious choices for cult recruitment.
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Now, @Thul. If we're worried about him, we can take a lot of his power away with a trade. That doesn't solve the problem if we think he's the recruiter, but it does make him a lot less useful to the cult. Might be a good idea if we're going to lynch someone else but we're still not feeling great about him. Note that when he thought he was going to die, he said to lynch anyone except me that took his pokemon. I probably can get more use out of it than any other townie, since it should prevent me from getting redirected into anyone during a kill attempt.
That having been said, I have a Haunter. Haunter evolves when traded. At least he does in other games; I don't know if trade evolutions are included in this or not. There's a very real chance that I could hand him a Gengar. I don't know if we want to risk that if we don't trust him. Gengar might be awful. He might be amazing. He might not be an issue at all, depending on how evolution works. There's a lot of unknowns there. We could bypass that with a sequence of trades, though. I trade Haunter to someone with an awful pokemon. We see if he evolves and decide where Gengar should go, assuming that he does. Following that, I trade the awful one to Thul. That chain gets me the Gardevoir and removes the risk of him getting something amazing, but we'd probably want to pick the intermediate trade very carefully. Thoughts?
I don't think Thul should trade his Pokemon away, especially not to you. Sorry Portius, but I can't trust you. Vigilante is an excellent conversion target, and I don't exactly feel comfortable letting you have your kill and the broken monster. Even though it would make great strategic sense for Thul to accept conversion if he's playing to win, I'm more willing to believe he chose to deny it than I am to risk someone who's potentially already a cultist turning into a powerhouse.
I also don't totally love that we're hounding the MAYOR for crying out loud, but whoever pointed out that Thul's behaviour has changed was right. I've noticed it too. It may be that this is just because he's role-revealed and this is now his mayoral persona..? I don't know. But if we want to strip him of his OP pokemon just in case, I can get behind that (I also don't want to trade at all, so it's up to the rest of you guys to figure out the details of how it's done).
The Luce = Shaymin thing is totally right, though. I won't accept otherwise.
As much as I hate the thing, if Thul continues to deny conversion we're best off letting him keep his Pokemon. Otherwise that's an opening for cult to snag double vote power. If he allows them to convert him, that sucks. If he already did, that sucks too. But at least while it's still alive and in his hands, there's a chance he'll say no, and that's better than zero chance. I can accept this, so letting it live and stay with Thul is probably our best play.
I would like to know what the deal is with people who shouldn't be getting amnesia ending up with it, though. Something's amiss, either with the stories people are giving, or the actual specifics of the ability causing it to happen.
There's also been some personal frustration with my mon. Ralts could use his ability on one person (two-day delay instead of one,) Kirlia could use her ability on two people and when it accidentally saved Lehki from Portius, I was told it was a "hidden power." Gardevoir is back down to one person per night, and I literally do not understand what the tertiary benefit of it is. I'm under the distinct impression I'm being rebalanced on the fly.
So yeah, I've been pissed. And yeah, I'm personally upset about some of the mechanics. And yes, I've been an asshole. And I know that none of the above excuses that. >_> I'll drop a round of apologies and probably vanish off the boards for a bit after the game, because I'm never proud of the results when I get angry.
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There's stuff other people have posted that I really should address in more detail, but kinda in a low state here and handling some social obligations besides. I'm hoping Dylara lives unconverted through the night for an autopsy revelation, but I've got a nagging suspicion that I screwed up picking a fight with Ssaliss and pissed off a lot of people in the process for no good reason.
@Portius, initial inclination is no. I trust you most out of the rest, but kinda trust myself the most. Sorry. Not sounding like the others think it's a good idea either, though... I'll give it some time and see if that changes. Then... uh. Nobody seems to have a useless Pokemon to give up, so might wanna get that arranged.
Vivet's my default lynch right now, more for the suspicious resurrection than any behavioral stuff.
AS @CYNDARIN TOLD US IN THE RUPAUL GAME:
This is Mafia: Where You Vote All Your Friends Off the Island! Let's be petty as we please, and then shake hands post-game like good sports. Until then...
[/skips back off to the winner's circle, cackling evil cackles of glee]
Going in after the fact and tinkering with the mechanics is unfair to the players, and I'm disappointed every time someone mentions on the fly re-balancing. We're supposed to be playing against each other, not against the whims of the moderator.
... but here is Phoebus, hinging on it and creating this elaborate scenario.
And here I am, imagining it getting fleshed out into an even fuller form.
Just imagine, if you will. Phoebus was the one to kill Vivet when she was the cult head of Lunaala. Vivet has since been resurrected by Lunaala and cast aside, left to struggle back against the cult she helped to form... and here comes Phoebus again, hinging on those very last words and echoing them mockingly while bludgeoning Vivet to death with a Lunatone.
Like. Really. Seriously?
That is hilarious. And horrible. It has so many little facets of irony and everything, it doesn't even matter what Phoebus' current alignment is. I almost want to see it happen, and see Tremula write it out that way. It would be wonderfully drama-tastic and be a true forums mafia legend.
I think I'm going to need a little time to regain my bearings and actually try to focus seriously on the game again, ahahaha.
In the meantime, I guess it's fine if Thul ignores my request and relaxes a while. At this point, I'm not thinking he is the Chosen, though there may be a good chance he has been recruited (perhaps recruited despite the protection of his power, which I can definitely see being rage-inducing).
I'll still really want Othero to report in and confirm what Phoebus has said while laying out his own night activities.
Is pushing for the best option really so suspicious? Was the dramatic speculation really so off-putting? I'd love my mad theory to be true, but I know there's a good chance it isn't, and have said as much. If I end up under fire because I wanted to have fun with a little wild speculation instead of dragging my feet for the rest of the game, well. I'll be sad!
(If we lynch you and you don't die by Lunatone beatdown, I'm going to be so disappointed.)
I had a single night of troubled sleep due to visions of waterlogged corpses, the night before last. It does not appear to be recurring, as I slept fine last night. This morning, Portius and Ssaliss reported having maritime corpse dreams last night.
Also, regardless of whether or not I'm important, you must consider that we are now down to 11 players. It takes six to lynch. So right now six is a majority... how many cultists do you think there are at this time? We've kept apace so to say, but losing Ssaliss before we even get to lynch is like losing another phase.
If we lose me while I am still town, that drops the number to 10. Then another conversion can happen tonight... if Portius or Othero murder the wrong people over night, that is liable to be game over for town, I think.
This is why I was asking about MyLo and LyLo status being announced. Though, to be fair, with all the killing and conversions under play, it is probably too difficult for Trem to really say. Nevermind what these nightmares may or may not be.
We have the 31st as a deadline, so there's still plenty of time to deliberate. And to wait on the information I want.
Let's just see if I can find something, eh?
And yes, I do realize we're in a dangerous spot when it comes to lynches, which is exactly why I want to lynch the most suspicious person, who'd also happen to be the least impactful mislynch in the event of innocence. Any mislynch will hurt, so I'd prefer to minimize our potential losses, if we can.
I sincerely doubt some revelation that changes this situation is going to come up in the meantime, but if people want to wait, that's fine, as long as actual discussion happens.
And I believe Othero said that was Zoroark's only kill, and even if he's lying about that I doubt he'd be able to use it right away again tonight, so we probably don't have to worry about any more misfires from that direction any time soon.
<><><>
"Two corpses were found in their cars today. Alary, the Magistrate, was found stabbed in the back. He was a personal invitation of the Champion. Rolsand, the Creepy Boy, was found bashed over the head and poisoned. He was a personal invitation of the Champion."
<><><>
Generally, we get notified when someone is distinctly tied to Lunaala or Solgaleo. There seem to be some exceptions - in Weiwae's case, he was just "a tragic terrorist". In Kilee's case, we were directly informed that they were a serial killer, then Kaimanahi's reveal specifically stated Witch.
Personal invite of the Champion seems to imply either a third party of some flavour, or most definitely a member of the town. I see no reason to believe that a convert can reveal as personal invite just yet. This is a bit of a bold assumption on your part, don't you think?
Like many things I am cautious of, I am in no way saying it 100% must be the case, just that the possibility shouldn't be discounted. We were told that small, easily overlooked details would be important in this game, so I'm keeping an eye out.
I do notice you are attempting to restate everything I'm saying in a more radical fashion than I'm actually saying it. This is not the first time I have been hypercautious about small details, but it is the first time you're drawing so much attention to it. Are you attempting to deflect suspicion back onto me because I believe you are the best target for today?
But anyways, bed time for me now. Hopefully I will have Othero's night actions by morning.
I never saw Sylandra do anything but I did see Krackenor that night. On Krackenor's night I saw him watch someone's door, I also saw Cyndarin scan his pokemon. I forgot about this but someone's Sylbeon attacked him that night. I was also stabbed that night. I watched Salome go to Melali's cabin with a knife. I saw Cen talk with Allyrianne and Cyndarin in Cyndarin's cabin. I saw Kaleneya go to the medical car on the train. Lehki slept all night. I watched Dylara go to the medical car and perform an autopsy. Thul stayed in his room and nothing happened to him. I did not get amnesia watching him.
I don't really feel up to it now though, so again - morning.
I hope it's not taken as the two of us being hyper-aggressive, as opposed to not having anyone else joining in on the discussion. Being your temporary budget nemesis is more posting than I've been doing since the first couple days of this game. I drank a cup of coffee at midnight and have nothing else going on tonight, so I've just been a-postin' away, probably making myself look suspicious because I talk a lot when I'm caffeinated and can't always tell how what I'm saying is coming off to others even when I'm not jittery and sleep deprived.
(I wish I could say talking too much isn't what usually gets me killed in forums mafia regardless of my faction, but that would be false.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
I believe you. I'm ready to accept that both you and Othero and members of the town.
Why's that, you say? Well, because you wouldn't have revealed/restated what you have if you were.
Well, now you might ask, "Vivet, just what is that?"
And here is the most delicious part of all. The real clincher.
I can't tell you.
What? But why can't I tell you?
I am no mere vanilla role. Not only am I powerless, but due to a few decisions I've made along the way, I am now powerless with restrictions.
Oh, and what restrictions are those, exactly?
Can't tell.
Now, you might say, "C'mon, Vivet. That is completely and utterly ridiculous. Now we have to lynch you."
To which I will now say...
Go on.
The fact of the matter is, I have indeed indicated and and forced certain points up to the surface. I've wrapped this all up nice and pretty, and bound it with a big red ribbon for you. But... I can't open it. That is what you are meant to do.
If you can't figure it out, or deduce that I am full of shit, then I am doomed either way. They'll come for me if you don't. I know they're already kind of pissed over my BS. Dying during the day is probably going to be more pleasant... probably.
If you do this, and I die, and the cult wins after all I've struggled to accomplish and done, I will laugh. Laugh, laugh, and laugh like the madwoman I have been swiftly degrading into.
And I think there is a very good chance, because I'm very certain that there are at least three cultists right now. Possibly up to five, but not likely. Four may be very plausible too. It's so hard to tell for sure when I'm not actually in the mafia, though!
Either way, if I die and the cult doesn't win by the next day, you might need to review what went on today. It'll still be here, waiting to be noticed. The win will still be within your grasp so long as you can look and vote!
And let's face it, this lynch scenario you and I have drummed up together is just too tempting for me.
So now the greatest game of Chicken begins, and Vivet's telling you right now she isn't going to jump.
Vote: Vivet
(@Kalaneya wanted you all to believe that the biggest troll move she could have committed with a resurrection was bringing back Rolsand. LOL. Are you having fun watching this, dearie?)
But going back to the discussion on if we can trust Ssaliss' flip or not, Allyrianne specifically flipped as a traitor. I took that to mean that she was a cult convert, and that they would all flip as such.