I'm not sure how meldbombs from 10 rooms are an issue. One, it's not Cyndarin ' s fault the north doesn't have a larger amount of competent melders. Two, there's nothing keeping you from rushing Cyndarin, even if you have to tiptoe and take out pits as you go. I believe I recently saw a post where Demartel had a head staked of Cyndarin after spamming disruption to take out her forcefield. GG Demartel for taking initiative and finding a solution instead of whining about a problem.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
If only my meld did the same amount of damage on tic which I could stack onto my meld bomb along with my roomwide twirl staff which does more damage than any other mage can hope for.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
So stack justice karma. Hit her with paranoia and try to keep her in it. Bring a Glamourist and weave a manse to hide in while meld bombs go off as you're tracking to her. Use a tracking pet to track to her and fuse in. Hell, burrow in and pop up at her.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
It's a deeper, more complicated problem with the playstyle that demesnes encourage in general. If a melder does not want to die in their demesne, 90% of the time they won't unless they made a big trip up, or they were zerg-zerged. It's really easy for them to stay out of the main fighting and stay adjacent and still contribute majorly to a fight. Pollute/inferno/cyclone/maelstrom/fury are just part of that problem. In the case of the pyromancer's demesne, mirage compounded by the crystal of thorns artifact means that if Celina wanted, she could avoid dying entirely if she wanted to.
This is something I've also hated about fighting druids 1v1, because the majority of the time they'll just run away from you until just before a meld tic. Because there's literally no incentive to keep them anywhere until then. In a group fight, you can bet your bottom dollar they rarely pop into the main fight itself, and with things like ranged cudgel, which they would have been spamming anyway, why bother putting yourself at risk?
Obviously the situation changes with necessity and numbers, but the potential is there, and it's always annoyed me about stupid demesnes.
It's also a point of bitterness that a melder can kill multiple people with one easy button press and turtling away in a group fight, where other classes have to whittle single people down. But that's not so much a balance issue but intense envy more than anything else
Trying to compare paranoia and aeon is incredibly disingenous and you should feel bad for even drawing that comparison. I would say that Aeon is the 3rd or 4th strongest affliction in the game (behind unconscious, stun and possibly sap). Downplaying it (as you commonly do) doesn't help your case that you simply are complaining rather than making a valid argument.
If the melder is staying out of the fight, then they aren't maintaining the meld. That means they are getting themselves broken and they aren't useful. Most fights believe it or not, don't take place in unbreakable rooms. The few that do are typically temporary until the room can be broken. There are significantly fewer situations where a melder can legitimately get away with not being in the room than there are ones where they can't.
Trying to compare paranoia and aeon is incredibly disingenous and you should feel bad for even drawing that comparison. I would say that Aeon is the 3rd or 4th strongest affliction in the game (behind unconscious, stun and possibly sap). Downplaying it (as you commonly do) doesn't help your case that you simply are complaining rather than making a valid argument.
If the melder is staying out of the fight, then they aren't maintaining the meld. That means they are getting themselves broken and they aren't useful. Most fights believe it or not, don't take place in unbreakable rooms. The few that do are typically temporary until the room can be broken. There are significantly fewer situations where a melder can legitimately get away with not being in the room than there are ones where they can't.
He wasn't comparing paranoia and aeon, he was saying that those are things he's used and got bitched at for. In response to the post you literally just made where you said "If only we learned how to deal with skills rather than endlessly complain about how great the other side has it."
And I don't buy the second paragraph at all. Ignoring the fact that counter melders are not always there, you can also control the flow and direction of player movement once you're set up in an area that even prevents mounting a counter-meld unless you become really outnumbered or the numbers are close to even and the other side has a significant situational advantage. The statement "there are significantly fewer situations where a melder can legitimately get away with not being in the room than there are ones where they can't" is patently false and completely inconsistent with how melders have played this game for years. But I suppose you're just downplaying it (as you commonly do).
How is it patently false? It is not inconsistent with how melders have played this game. If you're not sitting in the room that the fight is happening and the enemy melder is breaking you, you can't possibly maintain the meld, which is the melders #1 priority. That's why melders exist, to maintain melds first and foremost. You can't do that if you're getting broken and you're sitting in the next room. I'm sorry, but I've seen many many more fights where melders are right in the main fighting rooms, keeping the melds up than I've seen with them sitting pretty in the room next door. Sure, they'll duck out and run, but so will you, and everyone else. They heal up, come back in and keep fighting, just like you or me do.
I find this whole line of thought ridiculous. 'Melders can make my life hard, so obviously it's a terrible mechanic and needs to be changed.' A good melder -should- be hard to break. A good melder will not be sitting off to the side while they are getting broken. Saying otherwise is patently false.
As far as aeon/meldbombs go, Get you envoy to envoy it and change it then, but you need to bring a legitimate argument to the table and 'oh their meld is better' isn't going to fly. Meldbombs are incredibly easy to avoid with a modicum of self-awareness (unless you are hindered a lot but you can't hinder an entire group). I literally said the same thing to Glomdoring when they complained about Avu's fury (before we realized refresh was being abused).
Edit: I don't know, I sit here and watched you guys complain about how it's unfair we have all this experience and you don't, and then when it comes down to arguments about how group fights go, you just ignore said experience. Make up your minds. We're not here to coddle you and feed you foolproof winning strategies. I'm pretty tired of the 'complain for change' attitude. When all the complaints about you losing are consistently leveled at skills and/or numbers, even when it's refuted and shown to be false, when several other people who have played in both orgs have consistently said the same things regarding the two sides, you're going to have to realize that maybe just maybe, you should start looking in the mirror and working on yourself rather than stare out the window and try to diminish us.
1. Meldbombs are powerful and should be powerful. 2. Not all meldbombs are created equal due to damage typing. 3. I offered two solutions about medbombs in the past and no envoy ran with it, despite the worst that could happen is it gets rejected. 4. I will offer them again and see if one of the many envoys that does not envoy shit puts it up
Solution 1> Bring all meldbombs in line with each other in damage. Scale them down to the lowest damage type, or an average of the highest damage types and the lowest. Do Not bring all meldbombs up to be inline with the highest damage types.
Solution 2> The more enemies a bomb hits the less damage the bomb does. A melder can choose to strategically make use of enemy/unenemy for maximum potential of a meldbomb or can go for lesser damage spread out among all enemies.
I really can't tell if you guys believe the experience gap is real or not. It seems to come and go based on whether or not you like what Sidd is saying!
At any rate, I will say that some of what is being said about melding is not correct. Combating enemy breakers is a very real thing, it happens all the time and if you allow it to happen, you will lose the advantage. I don't know why @Rivius is arguing this, this is literally how meld wars have worked for as long as I can remember. Yes, you can mostly "hide" the whole time, but that's a bad melder. You are either a room away so effects are hitting or you are remelding what has been broken. Hide and staff, which is a thing and situationally it's what you sometimes do, isn't generally what a good melder is going to be doing. A specific real time example of this is the domoth hub, which requires the melder to move past enemies repeatedly in order to maintain a meld. I promise you it's real! Every situation is different though, and how you react and what you are doing depends on the meld opposition, it's hard to make sweeping statements about melder behavior when that is often dictate by what area they are melding and where the break point is in relation to where the fight is/will be.
A melder does have to be in the room sometimes, sometimes they don't. That's a nuanced conversation. It depends on the fight and the opposition. Currently? No, I don't have to be in the room a lot because my opposing melders are usually not that fantastic (and your best, most aggressive melder is now super squishy, but I think he could be if he built for it better). That's not "how melders have played the game for years" though. There are large swathes of the game where melders would have meld wars in the rooms people were fighting in. Fillin, Nydekion, Viynain, Krellan, whoever. When you had really good melders on both sides, meld wars happened WHILE people were brawling it out, very often in the rooms that they were brawling in. That hasn't changed, that potential and that reality is still very present. The skill levels might have changed, so we don't see it as much, but it's most definitely not as simple as saying running and hiding and not having to get their hands dirty in the fight is "how melders have played the game for years." It's really not that simple.
However, as I've said before, I think they allow skilled small groups to overtake unskilled large groups by using terrain advantages and affecting organization. I like that there is a mechanic in place that can counter unskilled zergs. Ultimately, though, I wouldn't mind seeing them go and replaced with something. Though that is a complicated conversation and I don't currently have any ideas on what to do with 6 different melders to make them not meld dependent.
It's more than a little disingenuous to bring up aeon as a response to meldbombs. I mean, I get you're trying to make a point, but in the context of a real discussion about these mechanics, it's a little "no u," childish. There is no "dealing" with aeon in the same sense that you 'deal" with direct damage attacks or kill strategies. You "deal" with aeon in that you have a system already created that "deals" with aeon and either it works or it doesn't. You, the player, do very, very little to "deal" with aeon. There are plays and counter plays with meldbombs and skills in general, you can think and react. Aeon is not remotely similar in this way.
edit: inb4 inevitable partisan line agree/disagrees.
The thing about meldbombs is that they completely discourage conflict, which is what Synkarin and Cyndarin harp on about.
You can literally be, potentially, 30 rooms away, indoors, and completely pitted along the way and unleash your staff for damage. And considering it takes less than 12 seconds to get your mana to acceptable levels, you can easily rejoin the fight right before the meldbomb hits (but why would you when you can just staff from an adjacent room, avoiding the possibility of paranoia).
The reason people aren't nerfing Fury is because
A. it's cutting damage
B. a bug was being abused
C. it's cutting damage y'all.
The harsh truth is that pure damage typing (that isn't cutting) is overwhelming in its own right, but to be fair to everyone, every meldbomb should get a nerf.
If it gets nerfed so hard that it becomes bad to use, well, maybe that's okay. Because it's literally not a conflict mechanic, it's an "I Win" button.
EDIT: Actually, I feel like every -mancy and Druidry should absolutely jump on the possibility of making their Transcendent skill something that isn't loldamage.
Meld bombs don't need a "nerf" Stop using that god awful term. They do need to be balanced and brought in line with each other. They do need to be powerful because that is their intent. Yes damage typing is an issue, an easily solved issue by placing a damage cap on them, one that all meld bombs can achieve.
If you are an envoy and you think meldbombs need to be changed and you are not envoying meldbombs then you have no horse in this race. Again, I offered solutions that I think combined would solve the majority of the issue. Either envoy it, or shut up about them. I don't die to meldbombs because I figured a way around them, I do die to meldbombs + Groups because well my plan just isn't foolproof. They still need to be balanced though and none of this partisan arguing about who abused what and now it is only an issue because of so and so. Be a god damned envoy and do your job for the health of the game. /rantingtogetmypointacross
Personally, I think the biggest counter to a meldbomb is righteous retreat. Go to a broken room, bix out, do whatever you need to -- you're literally only going to be away from combat for 12 seconds, and if everyone runs, nobody dies. But I know how much everyone hates even -mentioning- running, with a spitting acid (finaltwist, inquisition anyone), so. Maybe it's not the best?
Well I'm not going to get into the meldbomb discussion for a couple reasons. 1) I have a horse in the race. 2) People are using phrases like "health of the game" and "we're balancing, not nerfing," which is just word politics and subtle ways of saying "I'm right."
If an envoy wants to pick it up, they can. There's a valid discussion about meldbombs, I think. What that is won't be had constructively here.
Actually I just completely hate the term "nerfing" and always have, I also don't think I am "right" I just think my solutions have merit and can solve a lot of issues.
I do think that you are right in that no constructive outcome will happen here, which is why I am harping on Envoys to envoy the damn thing. Because that is where constructive discussion and an outcome will happen. Whether that is my solutions or something else. I still stand by my stance that if you are an Envoy and think they need to be changed and not doing something about it then you are as Silvanus puts it "part of the problem"
Pretty much because he wasn't paying attention to the incoming meld-bomb; I was standing in the room with him wondering what he was up to and why he was allowing you to try it.
Cool! No reason that should've happened. I can guarantee you can tank both, as I've seen your staff (1600ish) and cyclone (7000ish) and can survive both with a buffer to spare. And I'm not max health!
Cool! No reason that should've happened. I can guarantee you can tank both, as I've seen your staff (1600ish) and cyclone (7000ish) and can survive both with a buffer to spare. And I'm not max health!
He had been doing some pre-bomb-landing staff points, so Malarious was not at full health when it landed. That's how it happened.
I shouldn't be able to solo kill someone that cheaply and safely because in a proper group fight that's going to be so much easier to do except it'll be on all enemies focused on fighting.
Sorry, it's still an anecdote and Malarious quoted saying he took over 9k damage so his resistances aren't fantastic. If you solo killed him with staff/unleash staff and he let you, that is evidence of nothing other than Malarious not responding correctly.
This is like walking into a room and chasm'ing someone that just stands there, and then saying chasm is OP I shouldn't be able to kill someone by pressing a button. True, you shouldn't, but that's not really the full story.
It's a bad example of anything, no matter how you slice it.
Comments
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
2. Not all meldbombs are created equal due to damage typing.
3. I offered two solutions about medbombs in the past and no envoy ran with it, despite the worst that could happen is it gets rejected.
4. I will offer them again and see if one of the many envoys that does not envoy shit puts it up
Solution 1> Bring all meldbombs in line with each other in damage. Scale them down to the lowest damage type, or an average of the highest damage types and the lowest. Do Not bring all meldbombs up to be inline with the highest damage types.
Solution 2> The more enemies a bomb hits the less damage the bomb does. A melder can choose to strategically make use of enemy/unenemy for maximum potential of a meldbomb or can go for lesser damage spread out among all enemies.
Solution 3> Both 1 and 2
You can literally be, potentially, 30 rooms away, indoors, and completely pitted along the way and unleash your staff for damage. And considering it takes less than 12 seconds to get your mana to acceptable levels, you can easily rejoin the fight right before the meldbomb hits (but why would you when you can just staff from an adjacent room, avoiding the possibility of paranoia).
The reason people aren't nerfing Fury is because
A. it's cutting damage
B. a bug was being abused
C. it's cutting damage y'all.
The harsh truth is that pure damage typing (that isn't cutting) is overwhelming in its own right, but to be fair to everyone, every meldbomb should get a nerf.
If it gets nerfed so hard that it becomes bad to use, well, maybe that's okay. Because it's literally not a conflict mechanic, it's an "I Win" button.
EDIT: Actually, I feel like every -mancy and Druidry should absolutely jump on the possibility of making their Transcendent skill something that isn't loldamage.
If you are an envoy and you think meldbombs need to be changed and you are not envoying meldbombs then you have no horse in this race. Again, I offered solutions that I think combined would solve the majority of the issue. Either envoy it, or shut up about them. I don't die to meldbombs because I figured a way around them, I do die to meldbombs + Groups because well my plan just isn't foolproof. They still need to be balanced though and none of this partisan arguing about who abused what and now it is only an issue because of so and so. Be a god damned envoy and do your job for the health of the game. /rantingtogetmypointacross
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
I do think that you are right in that no constructive outcome will happen here, which is why I am harping on Envoys to envoy the damn thing. Because that is where constructive discussion and an outcome will happen. Whether that is my solutions or something else. I still stand by my stance that if you are an Envoy and think they need to be changed and not doing something about it then you are as Silvanus puts it "part of the problem"