What novice/guild tasks did you LIKE?

Tzolla

With the discussion listing novice task woes, what I'd like to know is what tasks did you find interesting, or still do, be they novice or more advanced guild tasks. Which ones engaged you the most? Which ones had you learn the most?

Havastus

The Tahtetso advancement system is sweet. Basically, build your own advancement. Pretty sweet.

Tzolla

I was hoping for something more specific, so a newbie guild admin like myself can get a few pointers.

Saran

So, early on advancements should be basics.

The things that newbies really need to know to get them set up and ready to leave newton, this should also be mixed with some really basic things about the guild. With an option for more experienced players ideally.
This serves as a way to both help them and also introduce them to your guild, which in turn means helping them to decide whether or not its a place they'd really be interested in.

Later on, I guess I want options?

My preference right now is a non-exclusive branching system for advancement.

You have Combat training as one branch, typically a more linear system all up. Focused on its goal and free from the limitations of a more RP focused branch.

You have RP training and this heavily depends on your guild. For an example, I have a system designed for the Hartstone which is pretty much just... 36 different topics, you can make a play,  have a chat, write a book, anything really to show some understanding of that topic (like... would accept a cooking recipe if you can say why it's relevant) because the guild is philosophical.
You can do these in any order and the relevant officials would be empowered to also just declare someone has passed their test. Like, they could go up to you and talk and if they feel your participation warrants passing the task then you pass.
I proposed something similar for the Moondancers but the focus was different and more on the priest training

The third branch is the misc branch. This is for every other reason you might want to favour people and it's literally just a list of these things, anyone who can favour someone is allowed to give out favours to anyone who has done something on the list (turned up to defend, helped carve totems, dropped a lot of power in the nexus, etc). The things that we want to encourage but maybe detract from the rp or training focus of the other branches, and especially repeatable things like defending.


Each of these is a way to ascend within the guild, just if you do all three then you'll probably ascend faster and to greater heights than those who focus on one alone.

Brantas

Keep the advancement simple and direct at first. Get them hooked before you throw indepth requirements. Things like "who are your guild leaders?" and "have a description" are always winners.

Twytch

I liked a certain guild's advancement system (I don't remember, sorry, I've played in a lot...).

Basically, there are three 'main' branches, patterned after the guild's lore. Each branch has a certain number of tiers, and on each tier there are main and minor tasks. For the purposes of this discussion, we'll say there are 5 tiers each with three main and ten minor tasks.

For GR1, you need to complete 1 main task and 3 minor ones from the first tier. It doesn't matter from which branches you pull from. For GR 2, it's 1 main task and 5 minor ones, from the second tier. For GR 3, it's much of the same, but this time it's 2 main tasks and 5 minor ones from the third tier.

The philosophy behind this approach is that a guild member should be well-rounded and have knowledge of the basics of the guild. After that, GR4 onward is usually considered "full" guild membership, so advancement becomes specialized.

To advance to GR4, you have to pick 1 main task from the fourth tier of the branch you're going to specialize in, plus 3 minor ones from the same branch -- or, 2 minor tasks from the same tier of a different branch counts as 1 minor task. To get to GR 5, it's much the same, but with 2 main tasks and 5 minor ones. So on and so forth.

This allows it to be a bit more personal for each person doing the advancement, and pulls from their interests. They're also not boxed into a certain playstyle in the guild (combat, RP, etc.). Plus, it becomes easier to modify the advancement system: instead of overhauling the entire thing every few years, you can just keep the structure and add/remove tasks here and there.

Saran

Twytch said:

Basically, there are three 'main' branches, patterned after the guild's lore.

A thing I particularly hate, because it has been done over and over so many times, is the particular implementation of this as...

Combat: Broken Stone, Crone, Body, Buck, Stag
RP: Time Stones, Mother, Spirit, Stag, Buck
Other: Moon Stone, Maiden, Mind, Doe, Doe

It's the easy option definitely, but it feels like it limits the view of those aspects.

For example, someone on a "Maiden" path has their own reasons for why they fight, maybe their own approaches and the like, but these systems seem often set up where you then go "no you're on the crone path, even though your a joyfilled youth who loves new experiences, you want to fight so you're a crone"


The HS is another example because each of the stones and aspects offers their own reasoning for fighting and perspective on it, so making the Broken Stone combat kinda misses the point on this.

Everiine

Twytch said:

I liked a certain guild's advancement system (I don't remember, sorry, I've played in a lot...).

Basically, there are three 'main' branches, patterned after the guild's lore. Each branch has a certain number of tiers, and on each tier there are main and minor tasks. For the purposes of this discussion, we'll say there are 5 tiers each with three main and ten minor tasks.

For GR1, you need to complete 1 main task and 3 minor ones from the first tier. It doesn't matter from which branches you pull from. For GR 2, it's 1 main task and 5 minor ones, from the second tier. For GR 3, it's much of the same, but this time it's 2 main tasks and 5 minor ones from the third tier.

The philosophy behind this approach is that a guild member should be well-rounded and have knowledge of the basics of the guild. After that, GR4 onward is usually considered "full" guild membership, so advancement becomes specialized.

To advance to GR4, you have to pick 1 main task from the fourth tier of the branch you're going to specialize in, plus 3 minor ones from the same branch -- or, 2 minor tasks from the same tier of a different branch counts as 1 minor task. To get to GR 5, it's much the same, but with 2 main tasks and 5 minor ones. So on and so forth.

This allows it to be a bit more personal for each person doing the advancement, and pulls from their interests. They're also not boxed into a certain playstyle in the guild (combat, RP, etc.). Plus, it becomes easier to modify the advancement system: instead of overhauling the entire thing every few years, you can just keep the structure and add/remove tasks here and there.

I'm sorry, this sounds like a nightmare to me. If I have to play math and guessing games (1+3, 1+5, 2+5) trying to figure out how many of each type of task from different tiers I have to complete just for a single favour, you've lost me. I hate it when guilds do this. In order to get to GR4, you have to do 21 different tasks and there's no clear direction. No. Just no. Not worth it. I'll participate in 4 raid defenses/village revolts instead.

Lavinya

I hate paths, I hate complex.

What I prefer is a lot of options and the ability to pick and choose depending on what interests me and what I actually have time for.

Designs, short poems, performing a sermon and or ritual are what I enjoy most. Also tasks that help the org like participation in revolt/aetherflare. I like to be able to check off tasks just by being an active participant (and isn't that what we want to encourage?)

I also love having the option to come up with a task of my own.

Tarkenton

I like the math problem advancement style personally. I also love the sg spirit paths and stripes. Those are amazeballs

Saran

Lavinya said:

I hate paths, I hate complex.

What I prefer is a lot of options and the ability to pick and choose depending on what interests me and what I actually have time for.

Designs, short poems, performing a sermon and or ritual are what I enjoy most. Also tasks that help the org like participation in revolt/aetherflare. I like to be able to check off tasks just by being an active participant (and isn't that what we want to encourage?)

I also love having the option to come up with a task of my own.

Yeah, I tend to just babble, or like do random different things and that's why I push for/design systems that enable people to do what they like.

I just feel like active participant stuff is things we should reward people for but maybe not like on the way to being a "Priest of the Moon" (unless of course it's relevant) which is why I split them up, cause like... I like earning titles >_>

Lavinya

I don't like to be pigeonholed. Lavinya is complex and doesn't fit on one path, dagnabbit!  )

Tzolla

I do like the idea you suggested @Twytch. It seems to offer flexibility to pick and choose to someone's strengths. Though, to me, there seems to be no particular reason someone would _have_ to specialise in any particular path. Further advancement could be through simply completing more tasks, or just by being involved and onctributing to whatever is happening, or initiating events, contests, hunting parties, or joining an order to develop spiritually, anything really that raises the activity and profile of the guild.

Saran

Lavinya said:

I don't like to be pigeonholed. Lavinya is complex and doesn't fit on one path, dagnabbit!  )

Aw, it's not about pigeonholing people. :P

My ideal for a priest path is like vague things like "present a teaching of Luna" where present could be a painting, a play, a ritual, a talk, an essay... whatever you like (I've even considered the possibility of a manse as a submission >_>). It's just a "priest/ess" thing because it's tied into the roleplay of the guild.

There's also the potential for unlimited subsets, like, I would probably end up writing a bunch of different rituals so i'd end up being a "priest" but titled a Ritualist of Mother Moon. Someone that's more dedicated to the Maiden aspect could take on "Priestess of the Maiden". Because the path is really personal.

Saran

oh, an important thing for me, sometimes people have done something that's covered by a task.

Like if someone makes a nice ritual, or writes a book and you as a leader could argue that it covers a task then IMO you should be proactive and just pass them. I know I've had moments (especially when I was a newbie/make an alt in one of the other games) where I get anxious about asking for an advancement, so this can help ease that into a moment where your senpai guild leader notices you and tells you you're awesome.

Everiine

Tarkenton said:

I like the math problem advancement style personally. I also love the sg spirit paths and stripes. Those are amazeballs

The stripes are nice and simple, and there's two in each category: Hunting (leveling), Culture (writing stuff), Service (holding a guild position), Battle (sparring), Serenwilde (bringing in power), Exploration (explorer rank).

The spirit paths are much harder and restrictive, with 5 ranks on each of the three paths, and they require you to work with people who have already finished a path in creating the visions--a serious design flaw, as I and Awdwyn are the only two at the moment who have gotten that far on any of the three, so it can be difficult to do them. But they are far more satisfying (in my opinion) because of the wide open creativity.

The biggest people complaint people have about the Stripes and Spirit Paths as advancement systems? They are entirely optional. Serenguard guided advancement stops at GR2. There are a few tasks to speed up COL and GNT time and a few required tasks to go from GR1 to GR2, and that's all that's required. After that, the Stripes and Spirit Paths are available, but you need to be responsible for your own advancement.

Eldanien

I'm partial mostly because it was my baby, but the Tahtetso advancement gives each novice a ton of options worth varying amounts of points, with so many points needed per guild rank.  Guild advancement back then was very much a 'pick your own path' type of thing, with very few mandatory tasks.  Everything from mechanical character growth (xp or explorer rankings), to PvP goals, Celest-morality-aligned quests, to service to the city (power, esteem, library contribution).  Naturally, when I've alted, I've compared other guilds to what I came up with and on the whole found I preferred the Tahtetso advancement system.  Others might not.

It's changed quite a bit since I was GA, though it's still pretty recognizable.

One big thing I see, though... Tahtetso advancement was originally meant to be pretty quick up to GR5, and still fairly quick to GR10.  Maybe it's a change in game culture, but I don't see that being enabled as much.  I remember one person who made GR10 from fresh novice in a little under two weeks.  Granted, they were an alt and knew what they were doing already.  But for some people, guild rank is something to be desired.  If we allow for rapid advancement to GR3, why not expand that so that we have members with guild ranks all up the scale?

I'm kind of sad I never saw anyone of GR12-18, that I can recall.

edit: My point being, different people will have different interests.  If you put in place one single set of advancement tasks, or one narrowly defined set of advancement options, you've purposefully chosen to favor people who like those tasks and excluded people who don't.  That's not necessarily a bad thing (really!), but it is a thing, and you should be aware.  As GA, you have the power to shape the guild in the direction you want more so than either of the other two guild leaders, because your actions decide what kind of guild members thrive.  Over the course of time, the guild's life or death in population, roleplay and impact on the setting is more squarely on the GA's shoulders than the others.  Use that to build the guild culture you feel is most appropriate.  It was with that in mind that I attempted to make Tahtetso advancement offer broad appeal, and a quality of acceptance for each person's preferred method of contribution to the Light.