Design Catalogues

Ieptix

One of the currently approved envoy reports on my list is the introduction of some sort of design catalogue/method of sharing designs with customers. I'm not really familiar with designing or dealing with tradeskills, so I'd like to make sure I get input from people who do use them to make sure I implement something actually worth using. I've got a few possible ideas for how I can approach the issue, which I'll list below, with the caveat that I am also not familiar with the design/tradeskill/cartel code at present, so I can't offer any guarantees as to the feasibility of any particular implementation at the moment. If anyone has their own ideas, those are also welcome, though I advise avoiding overly complex solutions.

So, I have three ideas floating around for how to do this. The first two are similar to ideas I've seen around, where bookbinders create a sort of catalogue item that can be read (or some other interaction) to list and view designs for cartels. In one idea, each catalogue is tied to a single cartel (with the ability to also make one for public designs). In the second idea, the catalogues are instead tied to tradeskills, and one can approach cartel members to have cartels of that tradeskill added to the catalogue (with public designs included by default). The third idea I have foregoes the item creation/interaction entirely; instead, the base design-listing verbs (e.g. TAILORING, FORGING, etc.) are opened to everyone, with everyone able to view public designs be default. Then, cartels are able to grant and revoke view access to their designs so that potential customers are able to look through them (using those designs would still require cartel membership, however).

If possible, there's also a possibility of adding a flag on designs that keep them visible to cartel members only, regardless of the solutions used above. I do not know how feasible this is, since again I'm not familiar with design code, but it's something I imagine people might want and so I'm at least considering it an option until demonstrated otherwise.

Thoughts or preferences with any of this and/or other ideas?

Sylandra

I like them all but especially love the third option. I think that would be so handy in general to a lot of designers and customers.

Marcella

#3, to be able to see all public designs at least. Still keeps private designs all sekrit and stuff and if a designer wants to look through their private stuff, they can.

Falaeron

Third idea please.

Ranah

I vote for option 3. 

Kalnid

I'd like to see 3 for public designs(also, make the trademaster commands for design info publicly available) and 1 for cartel listings.

Ieptix

Kalnid said:

(also, make the trademaster commands for design info publicly available)

I don't know what this refers to. Specifics!

Kalnid

I'm not as familiar with trademastering as I could be, but in essence the bits locked behind the DESIGN verb. Currently I can as non-TM only use DESIGN COMMS, which doesn't include the listings for alternative nouns within a given skill. I want to say there's a couple others like that, but I couldn't be certain.

Daraius

As much as I love the notion of bookbinders making catalogues, option 3 is probably the most egalitarian. I'd like to propose a twist on it.

It makes a bit of sense that an artisan can recall all the kinds of designs he can make off the top of his head, but I wouldn't expect any random tailor to be able to divine that same information about artisan designs from thin air. Personally, I'd like to see physical items at trade workshops themselves that would give access to those design search commands, if only to preserve a little bit of flavor. For instance (drawing on an idea I pitched for Hallifax), you could TOUCH PANEL in the tattoo parlour, and from there have access to SKINDESIGNS <bodypart>, which would show you all public and city-cartel designs as if you were a tattooist searching those lists. Might be more of a hassle than people want, but I feel like it would allow a little bit of the tradesman-client RP to continue.

Thayan

Option 3 gets my vote, in its entirety. And the flag. 

Phoebus

Adding myself to the supporters of option 3!

Kaalak

#3 or alternately an out of game text dump somewhere. 

Lavinya

3 would be amazing! But even 1 or 2 would be a massive improvement, should you find 3 not doable.

Ieptix

(Option 3 is probably the most doable, since it'd piggy-back off the existing code mostly, and doesn't require dealing with item generation and new syntaxes and blahblahblah.)

Lerad

Option 3 will also give the most functionality - as long as all members of cartels automatically get the ability to add or remove a name to the "potential customers" list.

You could make it so that it's like a PK declaration - I will do CARTEL <cartelname> DECLARE LERAD, and he'll get an hour (or in-game day, whichever) to look at the designs using the TAILORING verb on his end, whatever, and this permission expires automatically after the hour (or day) is up. So if Lerad is not in any cartel as a member, and has no permission granted in the last hour, doing TAILORING will only give him public designs etc.

Xenthos

What about Option 4: Create an item linked to a specific person and tradeskill. Then whoever has that item can use the command to see what designs that person has (thus, no cartel approval or link needed). Theoretically it should use exactly the same code as now; it would just run the FORGING SWORDS script as if Xenthos did it, instead of Bob (the guy holding the item). This is the one I would far prefer to see for ease of use. If people want me to make something for them, it is a bit useless for them to see designs from a ton of other cartels that I cannot make (and cannot join because they consume clan slots).

Of course, this version also lends itself easily to an artifact. A permanent book that is linked to you but not a specific trade, so anyone who has it can review all designs you have access to. Along with the ability to recall it to yourself at will, so you never need to make copies / extra versions.

Daraius

TBH Xenthos's version is my favorite. Would prefer a Catalogue skill in Bookbinding over an artifact (BOOKBIND CATALOGUE FOR DARAIUS), but I like the immersion factor of having an actual item that gives access to the design lists.

Havastus

@Daraius' idea sounds like a good idea. It'll give a bit more utility to the crafting rooms, which I'm always a fan of.

Xenthos

Daraius said:

TBH Xenthos's version is my favorite. Would prefer a Catalogue skill in Bookbinding over an artifact (BOOKBIND CATALOGUE FOR DARAIUS), but I like the immersion factor of having an actual item that gives access to the design lists.

Well, my idea is a trade specific version in Bookbinding, with the artifact version not limited by tradeskill & recallable. The bookbinding version is the base important part, the artifact portion is an addon that I think some people (like me!) would appreciate.

Thul

Number 3. though please update help files so that we know what all the syntaxes are, both for base lookup commands (SKINDESIGNS, TAILORING, JEWELRY) and what parts to look up by (SKINDESIGNS BACK, TAILORING HIGHFASHION, JEWELRY WEDDINGBANDS, etc.)

Daraius

Oops, I misunderstood. Xenthos option 4 all the way then, plus Havastus-endorsed Daraius workshop catalogue add-on please. )

Ssaliss

I was just about to suggest the exact same thing as Xenthos did, so I'm all for his sol4.

Luce

Kalnid said:

I'm not as familiar with trademastering as I could be, but in essence the bits locked behind the DESIGN verb. Currently I can as non-TM only use DESIGN COMMS, which doesn't include the listings for alternative nouns within a given skill. I want to say there's a couple others like that, but I couldn't be certain.

I want to say non-TMs have access to DESIGN COMMS <trade>[ <subtype>] and DESIGN LISTCOMMS by default. It certainly might not hurt to let them see DESIGN PATTERNS <trade> as well, and update the helpfiles associated with the trades (HELP JEWELRY, HELP COOKING, HELP TAILORING, etc.) to include the pattern command(s).

Othero

So much of me wants to say the books but option 3 is the true answer. Just as long as a flag can be added to existing designs so that they can be flagged private. For example I know the Nihilist's cartel has a ton of designs that they would most likely want to continue to keep private.

Luce

We should prooooobably also have a period where we can review our cartels' catalogues to see if any current designs need to be retroactively flagged as well. Maybe a message or an email to support or charites@lusternia.com with the ID numbers of designs we need to flag? 

And let this sit until at least after Beauty judging is over, so it doesn't add to the swamping.

Daraius

I'm really excited this is even under consideration.

Ieptix

Luce said:

We should prooooobably also have a period where we can review our cartels' catalogues to see if any current designs need to be retroactively flagged as well. Maybe a message or an email to support or charites@lusternia.com with the ID numbers of designs we need to flag? 

And let this sit until at least after Beauty judging is over, so it doesn't add to the swamping.

Trademasters would be able to handle this themselves, if such a thing is feasible.

Eritheyl

3.

Let's not bring artifacts into this, just give us the basic functionality that Achaea has and we're good to go.

Ssaliss

I don't think anyone said this would be accomplished by an artifact. From what I understood of Xenthos' post, the only thing the artifact would grant would be permanentness and resetting; everyone would be able to bookbind a normal catalogue for themselves, with the risk of not getting it back when they lend it out.

Alaksanteri

I love all of the three options but really find the option 3 to be the most helpful!

Rivius

Xenthos' option 4 is best for me, because it narrows the list down to what I have to offer, while also letting people peer into my non-public designs (of which I've been asked for plenty). With that, we could add a design flag to disallow viewing of the design in this way, if the trademaster wishes to keep it secret. Heck, why not both option 3 and 4 ? I also like it because it gives bookbinders more business.