Is this normal?

Demartel

So I am just curious if this is normal for damage output. To be fair I don't know what I am dishing out, but I don't think it is in these number ranges.


[21:16:40.444] [H:46%|M:75%|E:93%][P:10(6)][bklP][Synkarin](-499m, 10.4%, -361e, 6.9%)
Ixion strikes at your head with Urlach's Fury.
Ixion suddenly burps a hot plume of fire at you.
Ixion's bludgeon crunches sickeningly into your head, leaving it light wounded.
[21:16:40.490] [H:23%|M:75%|E:93%][P:10(6)][bklP][Synkarin](-2325h, 22.9%)
Marcella strikes at your chest with an engraved axe with inlaid rubies.
Marcella's axe sinks heavily into your chest, leaving it light wounded.
You are afflicted with damagedrightleg.
[21:16:40.802] [H:4%|M:75%|E:93%][P:10(6)][bklP][Synkarin](-1982h, 19.5%)

Shuyin

Cutting and blunt damage are probably doing too much since it's been a few weeks after the overhaul has gone live. I'm sure it'll be toned down after the special report.

Maligorn

Axelord is the damage spec, so expect high numbers from them (I got hit by Synkarin for 2.9k+ with opencavity aff on my chest, + is there because it killed me and I don't know how much might've been overkill)

Lavinya

I'm more amused by the fact that hitting your chest damaged your right leg.

Marcella

The Ixion hit did so much because the fire belch in HELP DRACNARI worked.

My hit did that because I'm an axelord with ridiculously high buffs and a divinus enchant on the axe.

Also, calcise.

Shuyin

Uh, no, dracnari and "ridiculously high buffs" shouldn't be almost 2-3 shotting people with little to no prep work.

Trust me, I would know.

Marcella

2-3 shotting people with little to no prep work? 5% chance for that to happen and most people having around 9800-10000+ hp, me doing 2k damage or so, is 2-3 shotting people?

Shuyin

Yes, you would be 2-3 shotting people since most people demonstrably do not sit around with 9-10k hp.

Where are the 9800-10000 hp people at? I'm pretty sure that "most people" aren't warriors with access to surge. 

I'm at level 7 hp buff (when not in tryhard mode) as a guardian and I'm pretty artied out and even I don't have 9.8 health (only a paltry 9.3k).

Again, I'm a big fan of high damage in exchange for a lot of power (meld bombs) or a lot of effort (locks).

It is not good balance to do huge amounts of damage to people when all you did was pay to enchant your axe with divinus, race change, and buy arties.

Marcella

Avurekhos is a druid and I couldn't kill him through damage even doing opencavity on every hit, with him curing nothing but his hp (no warrior curing), for at least 10 balances. I had to build execute instead. *shrug*

Demartel

I have high health 13/13 vitals for health because I paid for it, so I have 10k health at level 82, but yeah most people don't have that kind of health.


If Divinus cranks up damage that much I know what I am buying next though #TongueInCheek

Shuyin

With that said, warriors are definitely struggling 1v1 and I believe the special report already has some ideas to address that, but that's an entirely separate issue than this one.

Lerad

Physical damage in general is doing more than it has pre-overhaul, and that is arguably not balanced. Trust me, I'm two-to-three shotting people too, I should know. If anything, going for non physical damage on your weapon may or may not be in your best interests for the moment (I have higher divinus protection than physical protection, for one), but YMMV, depending on how the formula is derived.

I'm not sure where exactly should be considered the "balanced" mark - that will require more time to figure out. Pre-overhaul levels of damage for warriors don't mean much as a benchmark because their mechanics are entirely changed.

Avurekhos is trained to know how to haul ass. He has it down to a science. You'll never tie him down in a 1v1. Now THAT you can trust me on. Either you catch him off-guard with an insta he's not familiar with, or you bring a few friends.

Zagreus

Shuyin said:

Yes, you would be 2-3 shotting people since most people demonstrably do not sit around with 9-10k hp.

Where are the 9800-10000 hp people at? I'm pretty sure that "most people" aren't warriors with access to surge. 

I'm at level 7 hp buff (when not in tryhard mode) as a guardian and I'm pretty artied out and even I don't have 9.8 health (only a paltry 9.3k).

Again, I'm a big fan of high damage in exchange for a lot of power (meld bombs) or a lot of effort (locks).

It is not good balance to do huge amounts of damage to people when all you did was pay to enchant your axe with divinus, race change, and buy arties.

No one uses surge. Surge is garbage, mentioning it is counter-productive to any logical argument.

Let's assume he was not afflicted with sensitivity here. He's claming he was was at 13/13 vitals.. All warrior attacks scale based on maxhp, so using that damage and applying it to any other level of vitals, such as your own, is inappropriate and misleading. 1982/10000 (take him at his word) is 19% of his health, on a two handed attack by Marcella every 3.7s or so. Since when is that 2-3 shotting? 6 hits to kill if they don't regen or heal health AT ALL, seems a far cry from your claim.

I'm running near max/max physical and elemental buffs (aka maximum possible buffs and damage potential), and got a lucky dracnari burp chance. I was doing somewhere around 800 damage per hit to myself (as BC, meaning 1 of 2 hit combo) earlier when I had 12300maxhp, if that's a decent potential for you to consider @Demartel.

@Lerad I think there's little question that we should be doing more damage than pre-overhaul since curing wounds (with ice) is no longer tied to healing h/m/e.

Now, with all that said, is it possibly too much when looked at fairly and reasonably? Perhaps, but it's going to be hard to tell for a while until the dust settles.

Edit: Hah.. I just noticed his % on the damage hit quote. 19.5% instead of 19%. Also, I proved there is a bug with how buffs are being calculated. I hope that gets solved sometime soon.

Marcella

@Lerad He was immobile in a pit for the entire time because he wasn't curing calcise, either.

Synkarin

To be fair - opencavity -should- be doing lots of damage (like 3K+) because that's it's thing - sensitivity and damage boost. It also requires heavy wounds, so easy to avoid with correct prios.

AL also has that passive more damage w/ more wounds thing going for it, which boosts damage. I'm not sure the exact correlation, but that's there too.

Demartel

Marcella said:

@Lerad He was immobile in a pit for the entire time because he wasn't curing calcise, either.

I wasn't in a pit. I was, however, stunned from Xenthos' headbutt. Hence, the not curing calcise.

Yarith

Also, you can hit legs and arms in pits at the moment and breaks are pretty low down in wounds, so I wouldn't be surprised if you can't get out.

Marcella

@Demartel I was talking about Avurekhos not dying to 7-8 opencavities in a row, while he was in a single room not curing anything except his HP.

Lerad

Ah, in which case, he has either very good mana curing capacity and/or clotting ability. Open Cavity does quite a bit of bleeding, and it stacks horrendously, and the bonus damage from bleed is, as far as I can tell, unreduced by physical protection nor scaling to max health. From personal experience, if you let the bleed go un-clotted, it's a guarantee'd 3-hit kill at most (even at low wounds), but if you clot it at a low wounds level, it's shruggable. Not sure how much it scales to wounds - from what I hear, not so much, so that latter part needs fixing, but its balance at low wounds level sounds right to me (easy kills for non-clotters, no progress if target clots properly)

Synkarin

(Lerad you're thinking twist, not opencavity, opencavity isn't affected by bleed)

Lerad

New warrior names get me all confused. Nevermind, then.

Rivius

Just out of curiosity, may I see the BODYSCAN BUFFS FULL of the individuals involved?

Tarkenton

I might toy with this later. Pretty sure I can hit 13 in divinus and cutting at the same time, will make for interesting numbers.

Tarkenton

Me: Axelord, Dwarf, running 12 cutting and 13 divinus damage buff

Axe: The item has the following enhancements: damage, speed, honed, razor, enchanted (divinus).

Test target: 6800 health, 8 cutting resist, 6 divinus resist, greatrobes

Standard hit: 1487, 21.9% health

Opencavity hit: 3706, 54.5% health

Test target 2: 7300 health, 1 cutting resist, 0 divinus resist, plate

Standard hit: 1622, 22.2% health

Opencavity hit: 4192, 57.4% health

Granted, second test isn't really indicative of too much I guess. But yeah...spam beast spitting calcise/dendroxin, use calcise/dendroxin yourself to try and eat salve balance, people can either parry chest against axelord or get wrekt it seems like.

Zagreus

So... standard TarkAL hits with essentially max  possible buffs against g-robes with moderate resists are doing one health sip of damage roughly.

That's not very scary.

Tarkenton

I actually wonder if I'd be better off without the divinus damage and going for pure cutting since I can hit 13 cutting or 13 div buff. Though 3% either way probably isn't all that much.

Zagreus

You can test it to confirm, but I assure you not using enchanted divinus and trying to use 100% physical will significantly reduce your damage. The conversion to elemental is working, which means it is bypassing armor reductions, why it is desirable (just like old elemental runes in this regard, too).

In my other thread I proved that 1 cutting = 2 elemental buff level additions (a bug as I see it, but that's how it works). The real question for you is to weigh your balance of cut/div buffs with that in mind. You're right though in that the differences in buffs don't make a huge difference.

Lerad

A standard hit is 3.5s, right? Or was it closer to 4s? Health is on 4s balance, and heals on average 15% max health. It fluctuates a little on my tests, lowest ever was 13%, highest was 20%, though I'm not sure if it is ticking with regen as well, but 15%~18% is probably the safe range.

Doing more health damage than a health sip at as fast a speed as you are sipping is almost using up all the healing capacity - without afflictions or wounds coming into the picture. If you account for bleed/bruise, this is vitals pressure at a level the same as full damage classes with passives, like bards or mages in their melds.

Of course, that's also with full buffs, which is not something everyone has access to. The snowball potential of the new warrior mechanics, however, make me leery of claiming this is "not very scary" without further data. Mages can't multiply their damage, twice or thrice the way warriors and their new moves possibly can. When you look at the multiplicative potential, it's not unreasonable to make an argument to lower the base. More data/spars etc is needed, of course.

Marcella

It's 3.9s for me , with 2/4 balance buff from food.

Tarkenton

Chaosaura and psychic enchantment (1/3 + 1/6 of damage is psychic) 13 psychic buff vs 9 psychic resist = 2233 damage, approx. 18% max health. For numbers sake.

Zagreus

WTB chaosaura, offering deathweapon uselessness, and a lemon pie.