Split skills

Enyalida

Is there any chance of introducing more split skills in shared skillsets? 

Specifically, adding things to druid/mage/bard (DW, Runes, Eco) terts that only one of the archetypes that get the skillset will learn? So, a druid-only skill and a mage-only skill in Runes.

Admin weigh-in?

Hiriako

I'll point out that this was me prodding on this, as I think it'd go a long way towards helping out underused tertiaries such as Runes/DW. Those two are good for Druids (though Runes still could use some fiddling) and weak/useless for Mages. That was where this first came to mind. I think a few unique skills would be neat, without being as significant a piece of work as new specializations would be - such as what happened for Bards/Mages with Illusions, and as some people want to see happen to Acrobatics.

Svorai

All I can say is Thorn, please. 24 runes will make me so happy. ;_;

Customisation between mage/druid versions of Runes would also be awesome. 

Sakr

Enyalida said:

Is there any chance of introducing more split skills in shared skillsets? 

Specifically, adding things to druid/mage/bard (DW, Runes, Eco) terts that only one of the archetypes that get the skillset will learn? So, a druid-only skill and a mage-only skill in Runes.

If there can be a split in acrobatics between bard and monks, that would be amazing. The higher end things are more useful for monks, and less useful for bards.

Hiriako

Thurisaz, if you please. But I doubt we'll see a 24th rune. Nor do I see the precise need. I'd like mostly to see this split based on primary. I'm talking two/three unique skills.

Svorai

Hiriako said:

Thurisaz, if you please. But I doubt we'll see a 24th rune. Nor do I see the precise need. I'd like mostly to see this split based on primary. I'm talking two/three unique skills.

The way Lusternian runes are named, which seem to follow the Old English translation in the majority, it seems more likely it would be 'thorn' rather than 'thurisaz' were it to be included, unless I've misunderstood something. I'm no expert, but it seems that Thurisaz is the proto-Germanic translation, where 'cen' is 'kenaz' and 'sigil' is 'sowilo'. There are exceptions, for example with ansuz.

But sure, unique skills are great too. I'd love to see tertiaries being used differently by mages/druids. +1

I just want that rune to fulfill my dreams. And complete my rune wands/box and runelore book.

Hiriako

They are. I just like thurisaz more, for a few reasons. But yes, mostly, I'd like to see terts that have reason to be taken. Mages just have no reason to take DW/Runes. Druids have no reason to really take Ecology.

Zvoltz

I can't really speak to the probability of "split skills" being added in, but I think you have a better chance of getting it looked at if you had specific examples of things you think need to be added to address the perceived problems with the skillsets.

Hiriako

This stemmed from a discussion on the efficacy of certain tertiaries regards to the different guilds that can take them, and the difficulty of balancing such things when you take into account skills such as Druidry Sap which is overpowering in some combinations with these terts. Therefore, the thought of breaking skills into 'elementalism only' or 'druidry only' versions, things that might function differently when empowered by elemental or natural magic. I've no specific ideas at this moment, but can probably come up with a few examples and post them here within a day.

Cyndarin

You would probably need to demonstrate a need to do so, otherwise the typical "no new affs" probably applies.

Hiriako

Oh, I don't intend to post new afflictions, just new skills, things that will benefit one or the other in some sense. We'll see just what I end up coming up with. Meant to respond today, but didn't get a chance. WHoops.

Cyndarin

From my side of things, I don't see it happening. Terts don't really distinguish between orgs, so I can't see them starting that trend without a really really good reason, if at all.

Lerad

Personally, I think if a skill is so incompatible between two archetypes that MORE split abilities have to be added in order to make balancing them work, then a specialisation that differentiates archetypes will be the answer. See psymet for monks, tp/tk for mages. I can see the merit in keeping skills that do not have specialisations "unsplit" as much as possible, as it were. It can be just as potentially confusing to have an unspecialised skill have a handful of abilities that change in favour of another handful of abilities depending on your archetype.

If it needs to have this kind of split, then just make it a specialisation instead.

If not, and if it's just one or a handful of problematic abilities, then envoying should be the process covering and tweaking said ability instead of implementing more split skills or specialisation.

Enyalida

We've been told that it won't happen, though. No splitting off existing skillsets into two discrete versions.

I think that the problem being discussed isn't necessarily a few skills that currently exist that are OP for any given archetype, but the fact that some of these skillsets have been effectively under an envoy-ing freeze for years on end, because any meaningful improvement (to bring them up to new skill standards, in places, or to simply make them more interesting) has to be balanced against two entirely different paradigms of battle. 

For instance:

The last runes report to go through was increasing the paltry duration of benign prophecy, which effects bashing more than anything else. The report before that would have made the skill useful for mages, but couldn't go because of sap. The report before that would have introduced Thurisaz, but couldn't go because of sap. 

Cyndarin

Lol, the prone report was created by a druid. Don't think mages would have cared one way or the other if they could sling a prone.