@Synkarin probably just made the best group combat post in history so I can't say much but what I do know is that communication is huge. Having seen both sides, I can definitively say that the reason behind the South's success is probably because of communication and teamwork. The South seems to work as a collective.
This is what I feel like fighting with the South (namely Sidd). Everyone passes up lots of "good shots" to guarantee the great shot. There is no one who ever takes the kills or the glory for themselves, but everything is passed along to guarantee the win. I hope this youtube imbed works.
One thing that's annoyed me whenever I've led is someone deciding to stray from the target order but calling their own targets over the clan. It confuses people a lot, and we tend to not drop people as fast because of it.
In the same vein, get familiar with general targeting priorities, in case something happens to your leader and you have to decide on your own. Get comfortable making calls in the absence of a leader. Discuss a plan before engaging. Get accustomed to discerning where the majority of your group is and try to regroup there.
Get used to knowing how your particular abilities can contribute toward a kill. Everyone shouldn't be spamming damage either, otherwise your target will escape. Everyone shouldn't spam hindering, otherwise your target won't die. Be aware also, that slower kill methods are not generally the go-to for groups. Try to synergize on damage kills, mana kills or other fast instas. You generally don't have a lot of time to set up for a soulless for example.
Useful announces help too. I think some of the things the north announces is not very helpful and just serves to spam. For instance, someone announcing dreamer tics or ear messages. More useful is announcing initiation of an insta or if a target has prerequistes you want the group to maintain. E.g. Xena would ask us to keep the target prone when attempting her insta and she has them otherwise set up, or Wobou would announce a successful greenlock so we can continue to reapply slickness and broken limbs.
Highlights are big. Start highlighting when your allies start certain instas, or when your allies or targets show signs of being in trouble. Assess/discern often to get an idea of your target's status.
Group separation is huge and something we're weak on. We need to utilize more group breaking skills as well as abilities like empress and beckon that separate people from a group.
Most important, lose and learn from it. Log everything, go back to see why you died and how you can improve for next time. Show your logs to people and ask for advice. Don't be afraid to die. Just make sure you learn something new each time. Understanding your own limitations and potential to contribute will make you a better team mate.
Just an idea, but we've done this a while back for teaching newer people about these things:: - Setup a wargames - Get 1 person who has good curing/tanky/good at escaping. - Have a group of 5+ try to lock them down and kill them. Repeat until successful. - Repeat with 2 greased monkeys, one of which is a melder.
I remember Ixion being the greased monkey and us doing this! Was a great practice (and lots of fun). I am also a huge fan of squinting. I do it everywhere, all the time, because I don't trust autowalking back into the group - knowing my luck, it would take me via the enemy kill squad. I'm terrified of being alone and would much prefer to follow the scary people who know what they're doing.
As someone who is really not a proficient fighter and never will be, it helps me the most just with all the information going over the clans. I try and target who they're targetting, if I see a call for a web or cleanse or gust I try to be there for that (and because of those calls I'm getting better at looking for these things happening on my own. I blame sap. Fucking sap). It also helps with the whole 'alright moving, on balance' before the rush, as well as a primary target at least. If these things help me, the eternal mostly non-com, I'm sure they're going to help other people too.
To echo Sidd, I feel like it's important to point out that being positive (almost jerking each other off, even) win or lose does wonders for morale and it encourages the troops to try again in the future.
If you win, you own up to it and praise good moves, be confident and help people believe that together you can do anything. If you lose, mention how it took X people to take you guys down or how many objectives/kills you secured along with a promise to get them back twenty times as hard on the next time.
Conflict is a lesson every time, even if they can be harsh. The only time it's pointless is when you learn nothing from it.
Regarding @Rivius 's tidbit about some people calling out confusing targets, what I do is prioritize who to listen to. For example, Malarious's target will trump Lothringen's, but Synkarin's target call will trump Malarious' (mainly because Synkarin is usually around when I am, so I'm more familiar/comfortable with following him).
I will say that having multiple target callers can be useful. I know I always start deciding who the next target will be before the current one dies, but there are times when it happens faster than I can settle on a target, or the one I'm thinking of killing next disappears right as the one we're hitting dies, and I have to scramble to come up with one more. I'd usually call out any random enemy name in the room at the moment. It's a blessing when there's another target caller in the room who can point me to the correct priority, and I'll switch accordingly.
There are also times when a target I decided on, and started calling, actually should be of a lower priority, but I missed the higher priority one due to some reason. Having a secondary caller helps catch those I miss.
What is important is swiftly correcting the target calling, and re-aligning any conflicts in calls with one-another. I know I usually defer to Sidd's calls even when my own calls are of a similar priority, but there're times when I call for a target and I repeat it to basically signal that mine should take priority over the other calls. It depends on the target and the situation. Learning when to make the calls and when to defer is important, but also something you can start doing by talking through things with everyone in advance. Clearly state a general order - melders, then monks, then judgers, then aeoners. And when the leader calls something that goes against that order, it's possible he might have missed a monk in the room or some other priority threat - go ahead and "correct" him by calling a target of the right order - as long as everyone is on the same page before-hand, it can help guide the flow of the team toward the actual targets you want to prioritize.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Honestly, it's for the best. I don't want to be a leader, and dislike having people follow me. Also, I'm usually running around doing my own pit thing, so you really should ignore me and do what Synkarin says!
I mean, uh, wait... I'm sad, so sad, help me @Celina.
I pretty much agree with a majority of what Sidd has said. I've applied the same mentality that I've gained from leading in Aetolia to Lusternia. I can safely say that while I lead groups in Lusternia before Aetolia, I was way more comfortable as a follower. However, "solo-raiding" give me the awareness necessary to act independently of the group if necessary in order to function as a cohesive whole. While it also may sound corny, I've found that Sun Tzu's teachings actually apply a fair bit to my thought process when I'm fighting here as well.
1.) "Military tactics are like unto water; for water in its
natural course runs away from high places and hastens
downwards.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to
strike at what is weak..." Basically, there's a reason why Glomdoring doesn't rush at Avurekhos when he has a fully melded godrealm. Why? That's charging into a place where he has the advantage and we don't fight where you have the advantage. If Avurekhos goes into a godrealm, we go and strike at Prime Serenwilde, Ethereal Serenwilde, or Seren's godrealm. There are exceptions to this, as @Synkarin is a proponent of "having balls" and charging in anyway. Sometimes we do this, but I personally don't unless we have an advantage in some other form.
2.) The best thing, in my opinion, that raiders can learn to do is take care of yourself first and foremost. I don't mean this in a selfish "screw everyone, every man for himself" mentality. What I mean is that you need to learn how to operate as an individual fighter, what is my role, what abilities do I have that are most effective in this situation, how do I communicate better. When you learn how to survive as an individual, it correlates to better success as a cohesive group. You'll know how to stay organized and often, you'll know what to do without being told.
3.) Morale. Glom will False Memory anything into a victory, but that's because there's some aspect of what we've done and achieved that can be called one. We thank people individually for their contributions, celebrate the aftermath of every military engagement, and encourage others to participate and succeed no matter the circumstances. Propaganda is a powerful thing and can really galvanize an organization.
4.) There is no such thing as too much communication. Yes, sometimes clans can get spammy with multiple target callers and whatever else is going on. However, telling allies that they're being judged, keeping an eye out for decap on your allies, cleansing your allies, etc. This all goes a long way to a more unified group. It ties in to the above and recognizing what betters your chances at survival. Your allies being dead lowers those chances, so don't allow them to fall easily to judges, Soulless, etc.
5.) Stop caring so much about the kill. I've noticed with the North that no one cares about hindering (unless they're a youngling and can't do much else) and goes straight for the kill via damage. Hinder, support, heal, etc. These are all great tools. Not everyone should be mindlessly spamming damage. Edit: I also want to add: Know what your enemy can do. Using Vines and Paralysis on a Runist Blacktalon is an effort in futility in most cases. I can shrug entanglements and paralysis due to runic amulet. There are other ways to hinder me and often, if I see them about, I'll generally avoid hitting territories unless I have a group to support me.
6.) Stop being stingy about power and resources. Shrine essence and power are pretty much inexhaustible resources at your disposal. Don't be afraid to raise discretionaries or shrine effects for minor groups of enemies. This is why I will raise Distort in Glomdoring for a small number of enemies because more often than not, it guarantees a kill in enemy territory once we all pounce on a target. I've noticed that the North RARELY raises these effects, if at all, for whatever reason. Seren has like 8 million power and they used to raise effects all the time. Now they don't do it at all, which is why I haven't died yet in Prime Seren since coming back.
Edit: I've also talked to people OOCly on the other side about things
they should be doing or could be doing. I've told multiple Moondancers that they should
sync their fae so they attack all at once, be cognizant of what happens
to their pooka, etc. If you have questions, just poke me OOCly.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Uh. Don't do that. If you are trying to learn and the other side is trying to engage you in a reasonable way, just about the worst thing you can do is spam discretionaries and shrines. You do nothing but learn how to kill people when you have area lock downs (which is not applicable in most PK) and discourage the other side from engaging in the future. It's a really unhealthy approach to conflict in a game that really needs more. There's a time and a place (hit and runners, supermob raids, etc) but it should never be your default setting.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Yeah, discretionary powers and shrines should really be for when you're ready to be done. I also think it's better to not use personal shrine powers and exalt stuff until big events. The less you rely on those extraneous things, the better you'll be.
If you think I'm tanky in a regular fight, wait until I do use those
I participated in my first few group fights somewhat recently. Here's some tips for newbies based off what I learned:
1) Don't get down about dying [repeatedly].
2) Ask someone who knows what they're doing what you should do.
3) If you have a method of hindering and aren't sure what to do or aren't told what to do, use that. Hindering is always useful, even if you aren't targeting the right enemy. AFAIK, most classes can hinder somehow without a credit investment.
4) Follow targets. If your leader died and no one else is calling in their place, target whoever your allies are attacking.
5) Make huge echos/triggers for frogging. Kiss those frogs, man.
6) Bring a surplus of curatives. Don't be me and run out of ice mid-gank.
Hello, everyone. I have a question...What's the line for capturing all squads? Since you can rename it to whatever you want to, my chat capture just does not even bother. I use mudlet by the way! Thank you if anyone can help! ">
Comments
This is what I feel like fighting with the South (namely Sidd). Everyone passes up lots of "good shots" to guarantee the great shot. There is no one who ever takes the kills or the glory for themselves, but everything is passed along to guarantee the win. I hope this youtube imbed works.
In the same vein, get familiar with general targeting priorities, in case something happens to your leader and you have to decide on your own. Get comfortable making calls in the absence of a leader. Discuss a plan before engaging. Get accustomed to discerning where the majority of your group is and try to regroup there.
Get used to knowing how your particular abilities can contribute toward a kill. Everyone shouldn't be spamming damage either, otherwise your target will escape. Everyone shouldn't spam hindering, otherwise your target won't die. Be aware also, that slower kill methods are not generally the go-to for groups. Try to synergize on damage kills, mana kills or other fast instas. You generally don't have a lot of time to set up for a soulless for example.
Useful announces help too. I think some of the things the north announces is not very helpful and just serves to spam. For instance, someone announcing dreamer tics or ear messages. More useful is announcing initiation of an insta or if a target has prerequistes you want the group to maintain. E.g. Xena would ask us to keep the target prone when attempting her insta and she has them otherwise set up, or Wobou would announce a successful greenlock so we can continue to reapply slickness and broken limbs.
Highlights are big. Start highlighting when your allies start certain instas, or when your allies or targets show signs of being in trouble. Assess/discern often to get an idea of your target's status.
Group separation is huge and something we're weak on. We need to utilize more group breaking skills as well as abilities like empress and beckon that separate people from a group.
Most important, lose and learn from it. Log everything, go back to see why you died and how you can improve for next time. Show your logs to people and ask for advice. Don't be afraid to die. Just make sure you learn something new each time. Understanding your own limitations and potential to contribute will make you a better team mate.
I shall comfort him. I just learned this really great morale boosting strategy from Shuyin.
1.) "Military tactics are like unto water; for water in its natural course runs away from high places and hastens downwards. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak..." Basically, there's a reason why Glomdoring doesn't rush at Avurekhos when he has a fully melded godrealm. Why? That's charging into a place where he has the advantage and we don't fight where you have the advantage. If Avurekhos goes into a godrealm, we go and strike at Prime Serenwilde, Ethereal Serenwilde, or Seren's godrealm. There are exceptions to this, as @Synkarin is a proponent of "having balls" and charging in anyway. Sometimes we do this, but I personally don't unless we have an advantage in some other form.
2.) The best thing, in my opinion, that raiders can learn to do is take care of yourself first and foremost. I don't mean this in a selfish "screw everyone, every man for himself" mentality. What I mean is that you need to learn how to operate as an individual fighter, what is my role, what abilities do I have that are most effective in this situation, how do I communicate better. When you learn how to survive as an individual, it correlates to better success as a cohesive group. You'll know how to stay organized and often, you'll know what to do without being told.
3.) Morale. Glom will False Memory anything into a victory, but that's because there's some aspect of what we've done and achieved that can be called one. We thank people individually for their contributions, celebrate the aftermath of every military engagement, and encourage others to participate and succeed no matter the circumstances. Propaganda is a powerful thing and can really galvanize an organization.
4.) There is no such thing as too much communication. Yes, sometimes clans can get spammy with multiple target callers and whatever else is going on. However, telling allies that they're being judged, keeping an eye out for decap on your allies, cleansing your allies, etc. This all goes a long way to a more unified group. It ties in to the above and recognizing what betters your chances at survival. Your allies being dead lowers those chances, so don't allow them to fall easily to judges, Soulless, etc.
5.) Stop caring so much about the kill. I've noticed with the North that no one cares about hindering (unless they're a youngling and can't do much else) and goes straight for the kill via damage. Hinder, support, heal, etc. These are all great tools. Not everyone should be mindlessly spamming damage. Edit: I also want to add: Know what your enemy can do. Using Vines and Paralysis on a Runist Blacktalon is an effort in futility in most cases. I can shrug entanglements and paralysis due to runic amulet. There are other ways to hinder me and often, if I see them about, I'll generally avoid hitting territories unless I have a group to support me.
6.) Stop being stingy about power and resources. Shrine essence and power are pretty much inexhaustible resources at your disposal. Don't be afraid to raise discretionaries or shrine effects for minor groups of enemies. This is why I will raise Distort in Glomdoring for a small number of enemies because more often than not, it guarantees a kill in enemy territory once we all pounce on a target. I've noticed that the North RARELY raises these effects, if at all, for whatever reason. Seren has like 8 million power and they used to raise effects all the time. Now they don't do it at all, which is why I haven't died yet in Prime Seren since coming back.
Edit: I've also talked to people OOCly on the other side about things they should be doing or could be doing. I've told multiple Moondancers that they should sync their fae so they attack all at once, be cognizant of what happens to their pooka, etc. If you have questions, just poke me OOCly.
^\w+ renames .+ to (.+)\.$
if tempSquadTrigger then killTrigger(tempSquadTrigger) end
tempSquadTrigger = tempRegexTrigger([[^\(]] .. matches[2] .. [[\)]],[[selectString(line,1);copy();demonnic.chat:append("Misc");deselect()]])