o Families losing Great House status will no longer lose all honour. Instead, they will be unable to either gain honour or prevent yearly honour decay due to inactivity until regaining Great House status. >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I'm just wondering where in the Peace Articles it warranted and execution
bump
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
This seems really weird and unfair, no offense, Shevat.
None taken. Has this happened before, though? I'm asking genuinely because I have no idea.
Yeah, there was 1 family that had an alt in it, the alt intentionally quit to make the family lose Great House. That also sucked.
Maybe 2 other families have lost Great House and their honour as well, through "normal" means, since the +10 change? It's always terrible. I just decided to write a post about it since it bugs me every time I see it.
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Oh man that sucks. I wish this had been implemented sooner, then. Hopefully this is seen as a new start to a level playing field, rather than 'Shevat got a free pass but everyone else sucks and can suck it.' I can see why it feels weird if it hasn't gotten an admin response before, but better late than never?
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Oh man that sucks. I wish this had been implemented sooner, then. Hopefully this is seen as a new start to a level playing field, rather than 'Shevat got a free pass but everyone else sucks and can suck it.' I can see why it feels weird if it hasn't gotten an admin response before, but better late than never?
Shevat is forever tainted by the touch of favoritism. SHAAAAAAME.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
No one has ever brought this to my attention, either. This isn't the first, and probably won't be the last, time I've gone in and done a quick (read: < 10 minutes; if it were something requiring, say, a restructure of the family system the Shevatlings would be out of luck) hotfix for something of this magnitude before. It sucks for people who had this happen in the past, sure, but Ieptixen are, alas, bound by causality, so I can't really fix things retroactively.
Oh man that sucks. I wish this had been implemented sooner, then. Hopefully this is seen as a new start to a level playing field, rather than 'Shevat got a free pass but everyone else sucks and can suck it.' I can see why it feels weird if it hasn't gotten an admin response before, but better late than never?
Shevat is forever tainted by the touch of favoritism. SHAAAAAAME.
I am not a Shevat. I have never been a Shevat. I have no Shevat-alts. I don't even knowingly RP with Shevats very much (ever?). I don't know if the past events had forum threads created about them (I know it showed up in rants a time or two, but that's not really conducive to getting attention). That's why I did it this way, I was hoping someone would take a look at it and pull an Ieptix. ( )
Edit: PS: I'm not actually taking your comment seriously, just pointing it out for others who might!
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Oh man that sucks. I wish this had been implemented sooner, then. Hopefully this is seen as a new start to a level playing field, rather than 'Shevat got a free pass but everyone else sucks and can suck it.' I can see why it feels weird if it hasn't gotten an admin response before, but better late than never?
Shevat is forever tainted by the touch of favoritism. SHAAAAAAME.
Oh noes, mah reputation! =((
Well, for what it's worth, this wasn't something Shevat asked for. As said before, I think we could have worked our way up from 0 honor pretty okay! I do think it's Xenthos's thread that brought it to admin attention, as Ieptix's post here implies, and for that I am grateful. No one should have to go through this, and it sucks that people have until now. The good news is no one will have to go through it again.
In the meantime I for one accept your anger, disgruntlement, and dislike for the fact that events haven't played out fairly. If I had my way, they would have from the start.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
(If you ever take my comments seriously, you're gonna have a bad time)
I'm actually happy this got worked out, and I'm pretty sure Rolsand didn't meant to do what he did. I'm just...well, frankly dismayed that this fix was jumped on and happened so quickly as opposed to other things we've had happen or asked for.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
@Xenthos , thanks for making this thread. When I logged in and saw what happened, I basically rage qq'd and accepted fate. But just showing a little bit of initiative and courage to say "hey, this is wrong" goes a long way. So thanks for that.
@Ieptix , you are pretty neat for taking the time out to just hotfix that mess.
Shevat isn't alone in getting honour back. I am not sure what d'Murani lost honour for a year or so ago, but we lost Most Honorable Family for it, but it was issued and reversed, so that was nice.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Shevat isn't alone in getting honour back. I am not sure what d'Murani lost honour for a year or so ago, but we lost Most Honorable Family for it, but it was issued and reversed, so that was nice.
Our loss was determined to be a bug/throwback from some ancient code. We lost something like 100k honour because I resigned my council position to contest for GM rather than the position being reassigned first. Devastated that we could lose so much for something so stupid, I issued and Ieptix was his typical heroic self and restored the honour.
Other families that lost greathouse? n'Kylbar, d'Cente, Feyranti , Stormcrow and I also think de'Unnero? More than one or two, that's for sure.
With regards to the discontent that this was fixed when other things go seemingly unattended to, I wanted to give a bit of an explanation as to why this is sometimes the case. Some of it might be stating the obvious, for which I apologise, but hopefully it will confirm some insight nonetheless.
The first and most simple point is: some things are far easier to fix than others. I know I've mentioned this before with typos - that some are about 30 seconds of work to fix, and some (death to all ikon typos, ever) are infuriatingly complex given that you actually just want to change one word. This actually applies to a lot of problems; of the reasons we don't get to things, this is by far the most common. The family and library systems in particular are exceptionally complicated code wise and so it is actually really lucky that there was a simple fix here.
As a consequence of some things being more complicated than you might expect, it can be harder to fit some fixes into our workload. This goes not just for the wonderful Estarra, Ieptix and Roark, but for all of us in Havens. Most of us are working on major projects all the time: the Nirvana area, for example, had several of us working on it for a period of months. And most of the time, due to the necessary secrecy of things, we can't tell you "I'm really sorry, I want to get to this but the Ascension event is kicking my arse".
Similarly, and I know you've all heard this before so I won't harp on about it - the majority of Havens volunteers do this in addition to full time jobs or study. Sometimes it is just that we are busy with exams/sickness/any number of things, and we probably really wish we were able to work on other things. But again, I think you are all aware of this, I'm just mentioning it for completeness.
The last thing I would mention is that we are only human, and that sometimes we do miss things, especially if they are suggested here on the forums. Though most of us read the forums, and there are people who read every post, it's so easy for us to miss suggestions and comments. Please remember that there are a lot of ways you can let us know if there are problems: you can issue if it's appropriate, bug things, if it's org-related you can message or email your patron (all gods have godname@lusternia email addresses), and of course there's also support@ for you to contact as well.
Whilst it's obviously unhelpful to contact us repeatedly on a daily basis, if we haven't responded to you for a week and it is a major problem please do get in touch again. We aim to respond to queries within a week for most things. With issues, it is best to message the Oneiroi and ask for an update if it's been a long time and you haven't heard anything (again, please wait until it's been at least a week - if you contact us more frequently than that you will just create more work for us and slow us down, the very opposite of your goal).
The main exception to this is bugs, which unless it is genuinely breaking the game it is not normally helpful to reiterate. If it's something like an untrapped error when you enter STAT, by all means bring it to our attention again if it's not being seen to - but please don't do that with typos, helpfile errors, most quest problems, that sort of thing. We look at every bug that comes in and make sure it goes to the right person or people to be dealt with - some just take longer to investigate and resolve than others. We are aware that there is a backlog of bugs at present and are making a concerted effort to deal with this. It's not a glamorous goal so we don't talk about it much, but I promise you it's happening!
I hope this helps make things a bit clearer or at least confirms some things you'd already guessed.
Yeah, as someone who been "behind the curtain" elsewhere, I've seen some pretty jerkish things levied at administrators at times that borders on abuse and pure venom. People need to remember that most of them are volunteers, working out of a love for a game that they played (and still technically do, just on another level). People need to remember that volunteers are just that: volunteers. However, unlike players, they don't generally see what impacts us on a regular basis. People bug, typo, issue, etc. all kinds of things everyday, so it can be hard for someone that doesn't have a pure player's perspective as to what's a priority and what isn't. In my experience though, in cases of something like this, I've never seen an administration outright ignore someone if the players bring the administrator's attention to it. In any event, do try to be nicer to the administrators. As @Maylea said, they ARE human behind the monitor.
On the other hand, since administrators can sometimes lack that player perspective, it's important for them to remember at the same time that while players can sometimes be too emotionally invested into the game and oft for bad reasons, there are those who are invested into the game but have legitimate concerns. Players not only make large investments of their time, but in many cases with their money. Does this entitle players to anything? Not really, because you've gotten your money's worth in whatever you spent your credits on and the nature of the game fluctuates for that very reason. However, I've always believed that since we have so many skills here that are essential to combat, no one wants to see their class fall by the wayside. It's a monetary, emotional, and time-based investment with one's class. I reference Nihilist as an example of this. It largely feels that the class has been abandoned. Theoretically being stripped of a lot of its identity by possibly losing Ectoplasm, Wrack, Torture, and other skills and it didn't get nearly as much attention as Celestine did with the new pledge/pact powers. I know it can be easy for administrators to be wary of folks being biased for a class, but I have no positive bias at all towards Nihilists. I've fought against them constantly as an example on both Nienla and now my Celestine, so I nothing vested by using them as an example. The same can be said about Great Houses and all the time that goes into raising them, cultivating them from the ground up, etc. Just remember that while players may overreact at times, it's because they do have a lot invested into the game.
I'm going to half-necro, half-commandeer this thread:
2016/01/20 18:18:53 - Shame lowers the eyes of the House: Rumours of Naime's suicide have spread far and wide and tarnished your reputation.
Why is this a thing? Why are what amounts to OOC actions taking an effect on family honour?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Comments
Entered by: Ieptix the Anomaly Date: 2016-01-17 01:58:53
o Families losing Great House status will no longer lose all honour.
Instead, they will be unable to either gain honour or prevent yearly
honour decay due to inactivity until regaining Great House status.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Vive l'apostrophe!
bump
Maybe 2 other families have lost Great House and their honour as well, through "normal" means, since the +10 change? It's always terrible. I just decided to write a post about it since it bugs me every time I see it.
Well, no one has ever gotten 200k honor back and the rules changed... but other families have certainly lost greathouse before.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Shevat is forever tainted by the touch of favoritism. SHAAAAAAME.
Edit: PS: I'm not actually taking your comment seriously, just pointing it out for others who might!
I'm actually happy this got worked out, and I'm pretty sure Rolsand didn't meant to do what he did. I'm just...well, frankly dismayed that this fix was jumped on and happened so quickly as opposed to other things we've had happen or asked for.
@Ieptix , you are pretty neat for taking the time out to just hotfix that mess.
Incoming threads for all problems henceforth.
On the other hand, since administrators can sometimes lack that player perspective, it's important for them to remember at the same time that while players can sometimes be too emotionally invested into the game and oft for bad reasons, there are those who are invested into the game but have legitimate concerns. Players not only make large investments of their time, but in many cases with their money. Does this entitle players to anything? Not really, because you've gotten your money's worth in whatever you spent your credits on and the nature of the game fluctuates for that very reason. However, I've always believed that since we have so many skills here that are essential to combat, no one wants to see their class fall by the wayside. It's a monetary, emotional, and time-based investment with one's class. I reference Nihilist as an example of this. It largely feels that the class has been abandoned. Theoretically being stripped of a lot of its identity by possibly losing Ectoplasm, Wrack, Torture, and other skills and it didn't get nearly as much attention as Celestine did with the new pledge/pact powers. I know it can be easy for administrators to be wary of folks being biased for a class, but I have no positive bias at all towards Nihilists. I've fought against them constantly as an example on both Nienla and now my Celestine, so I nothing vested by using them as an example. The same can be said about Great Houses and all the time that goes into raising them, cultivating them from the ground up, etc. Just remember that while players may overreact at times, it's because they do have a lot invested into the game.
2016/01/20 18:18:53 - Shame lowers the eyes of the House: Rumours of Naime's suicide have spread far and wide and tarnished your reputation.
Why is this a thing? Why are what amounts to OOC actions taking an effect on family honour?