Horn of Wonder, Wonder ... who wrote the book of love!

Estarra

I've noticed the Horn of Wonder hasn't been as popular as other wonder items... so let us know how we can tweak it to make it more attractive!

Also, maybe the Horn of Wonder just pushed your meh buttons. There's time enough this month to release a mini-wonder item (10 crystals?). If you have ideas, please share!

Maligorn

If that empress effect weren't limited to 3x per day, I'd form one in a heartbeat!

Estarra

We could remove the limits from the Empress effect. Anyone see any unforeseen consequences to that?

Shedrin

Most people only need one or two damage types, so the buffs to all don't appeal. The final ability, though it can be pretty strong, is situational, and not a personal power, so it's not as appealing for most people. Also having more competition for your wonder crystals doesn't help the popularity.

Idea:
Perfume of Wonder
 - buffs to each influence type
 - Other stuff (not very creative atm).

Vivet

I would like to note that I myself had a spare crystal lying around and nothing much to do with it, so when the horn came out, I actually broke down my wand and rebuilt it as a horn. Haven't regretted it yet - just pointing out that if people saw that much more value in it than the wand/wings, they might be breaking down older wonder items before buying more crystals.

Having said that much, since it got no response in the Artifact Ideas thread...

Suggestion for the Wonder Horn: Please set Wonder Horn Buffet to affect mobs too. It is great that it works on players, but that extra speed for razing shields would be great utility for bashing as well.

Arcanis

Estarra said:

We could remove the limits from the Empress effect. Anyone see any unforeseen consequences to that?

Xenthos

Infinite empress is a bit too much imo. The limit is why I did not post about it being an effect (though some did, I can't see it as being a long-term game changer during a fight-- but if it is infinite, that will actually change the combat landscape).

Personally I am just a little burned out on wonder items, too many of them and most of their effects are pretty meh. You can only have one of the damage effects up at a time, so that cuts out the majority of them right there. So it comes down to whether you want to splurge a lot of money for one or two effects that you can actually use.

Vivet

Xenthos said:

Personally I am just a little burned out on wonder items, too many of them and most of their effects are pretty meh. You can only have one of the damage effects up at a time, so that cuts out the majority of them right there. So it comes down to whether you want to splurge a lot of money for one or two effects that you can actually use.

This is more of where I am too. I think it's pretty hard to make the concept work in an interesting manner and while the wand was exciting because it was so different at the time, it's just feeling like a bit much to try to cram all these concepts into what is, effectively, a single item.

Tarkenton

I blew my discretionary spending for pretty much the rest of the year on the presents offer, tbh.

I only really ever do two damage types, cutting and blunt, and while a 3/13 damage buff would be nice, it's not purchase 1300 credits nice. For empress and the like, that's what other people are for. The other parts of it are extremely meh, the 20 crystal power hold no use for me. Pipe was borderline necessary for the race weapon buffs. Wand damage typing for pve was handy. Wings I never touched due to what I felt were very meh powers, and same with the horn here.

Maligorn

Estarra said:

We could remove the limits from the Empress effect. Anyone see any unforeseen consequences to that?

I -was- admittedly being a little facetious -- I want my cake and to be able to eat it too. Symphonists lust a whole bunch and generally have to be Tarot to take advantage of empressing, but if I had infinite wonderhorn empress, I could be Dramaturgy or Glamours without the need to be Tarot.

Shuyin

Yeah no thanks to infinite empress. People are just burned out on the wonder items and the best effects are 2k cr, which means only the whales get to play.

Shaddus

Wonderboots would be interesting. Maybe one of the powers would be to ignore weather movement reduction while walking.

Arcanis

Truth be told, Wonderwings are probably even less useful than the Horn, but simply were a new 'shiny' when wonder items first came out, and so attracted attention.

Shuyin

If you guys wanted to keep on the wonder item idea, you can add worthwhile effects at lower item levels too.

Arcanis

Some things to note of why wonder items are becoming less popular with time:

1. You can only gain wonder crystals by promotion through purchase of credits, or through the lucky chance one pops from a present. The scarcity of gaining a crystal (unless you throw your paycheck at the screen), combined with new wonder items being sent down (each needing 20 to complete, and usually the level 20 power being the only worthwhile thing to strive for), has made the entire concept become tiresome. When it was just one item (the wand), then sure, it seemed like an interesting thing to strive to collect and buildup over time, since it requires an element (the crystals) which isnt commonly found.

2. it takes 2k credits (in theory) to make a wonder item, only 2k purchased from the site, else you'll have to barter with people to try and get crystals. This will just always be a sour taste since we all prefer being able to use our game accumulated funds too, rather than having to rely strictly on 'purchasing'.

3. Some powers just arent worth it. The wonderwings specifically seem like an overdone version of the Circlet of Lucidity, in which rather than just give a standard defense against insanity, it was spread out for each bubble, just to take up buildup levels. Both wonderwings and Wonderhorn level 20 are just not worth the investment, compared to Pipe and Wand.



If there was another method to get crystals, such as through dingbats perhaps, then wonder items may increase in fame again.

Tremula

However, the Wonderpipe has great low level abilities. Smokeweb at level 4 is a great buff, and since I got 5 crystals randomly through presents, it made the pipe the only thing I've gotten (other than a level 1 wings I got from the event [and that would be a wand now if breaking them didn't consume a crystal {thereby destroying the only crystal I had}]).

Shuyin

Right, which is why I have level 1 wings. Good low level abilities encourage purchase.

Shaddus

Ignore

Rivius

These artifacts are getting very bloated. I'd rather we didn't keep making these wonder items at all. If you must, please just keep them to 5 or so effects?

As others have said, these items are very expensive. In some cases, the most worth is from 1-2 higher crystal powers, and the interim powers may be very poor overall, making the overall artifact not feel worth the ~2000cr you're investing.

Let's review individual ones:

Wonderhorn:

1 Gives deafness or remove earwort <-- Virtually useless

2 */* Cutting Buff (only one damage type can be active) <-- A lot of these will be useless to people who don't have access to these damage types. This means I'm paying x00 credits for something I cannot use.

3 */* Blunt Buff (only one damage type can be active)

4 Destroy wall in one direction <-- Somewhat decent

5 */* Magical Buff (only one damage type can be active) 

6 Blow away shield from target (fast) <-- Should be useable during bashing

7 */* Fire Buff (only one damage type can be active)

8 Let all allies know where you are when blown <-- Useless. You can announce that on a channel.

9 */* Cold Buff (only one damage type can be active)

10 Destroy all walls in room. Costs 5 power. <-- Decent.

11 */* Asphyxiation Buff (only one damage type can be active)

12 */* Poison Buff (only one damage type can be active)

13 Blow the horn to give all allies present a 1/5 bonus to bal/eq. Lasts 15 min. 3x/game month <-- Not bad. I wouldn't spend 1300 credits on this though.

14 */* Electricity Buff (only one damage type can be active)

15 Target one person to lust them (unlimited) <-- Very good power. Actually, very strong.

16 */* Psychic Buff (only one damage type can be active)

17 Summon lusted person to you (3x per IG day) <-- Bananas. At least it's only 3 times an IG day. Let's not make it anymore frequent.

18 */* Excorable Buff (only one damage type can be active)

19 */* Divinus Buff (only one damage type can be active)

20 Blow horn and all allies can teleport to you instantly for next 5 minutes with no power cost (to them) but limited to normal teleport blocking like distort and monos. Teleport stretched to to all known planes (prime/ethereal/elemental/cosmic/astral) or local plane if not on a known plane. 5 power to use and limited to 1/game day. <-- Very situational. I'd take away the power cost to the user. You don't need to have it if you're going to make it a 1/day ability. I wouldn't pay 2000 cr for this anyway.

Wonder pipe:

1   Hardsmoke (summoning resistance defence, stacks with other summoning

    resistance) <-- Good 1 crystal power.

2   */* Cutting Resistance (only one damage type can be active)

3   */* Blunt Resistance (only one damage type can be active)

4   Smokeweb (provides a defence that informs you when enemies enter or leave

    the area) <-- Very, very good crystal placement. Good ability. I actually built my pipe to this level and stopped.

5   */* Magical Resistance (only one damage type can be active)

6   Blanksmoke (negates any active weed trips for a small balance cost) <-- Worthless. Not worth 600 cr for sure.

7   */* Fire Resistance (only one damage type can be active)

8   Daydream (see a random dream) <-- Why? 800 cr?

9   */* Cold Resistance (only one damage type can be active)

10  Sweetsmoke (make a denizen more inclined to generosity when influenced for

    amnesty, once per IG month) <-- I actually don't know how effective it is, so can't comment. 

11  */* Asphyxiation Resistance (only one damage type can be active)

12  */* Poison Resistance (only one damage type can be active)

13  Harshsmoke (inflict weed trips on enemies in the room, once per IG day) <-- Why? 1300 credits?

14  */* Electricity Resistance (only one damage type can be active)

15  Smokescreen (creates a cloud in the room that changes the room's name,

    obscuring the room from scrying eyes; any scries into the room will be

    visible by those standing in the cloud; cloud can be removed via gust

    and similar abilities; 3 power cost) <-- Very good power. Situational.

16  */* Psychic Resistance (only one damage type can be active)

17  Smokestep (instant teleport to nexus, once per IG month; 10 power cost) <-- Why 10 power? Especially if it can't be used prone and any other number of states. It's definitely not an escape skill. Keep it once per IG month and remove the 10 power cost (and change some of the states it can be used in). No one with an orgbix needs this power as it currently is. Definitely not worth 1700 credits.

18  */* Excorable Resistance (only one damage type can be active)

19  */* Divinus Resistance (only one damage type can be active)

20  Anamnesis (heightened state where you recall a past life,

    secondary racial perks; 10 power to select secondary race)** <-- Fantastic ability. Worth 2000 credits all on its own.

Wonderwings:

1 Jumping <-- Good 100 cr ability.

2 Aries (25% insanity reduction on Aries astrosphere)

3 Taurus (25% insanity reduction on Taurus astrosphere)

4 Levitating < -- I suppose people would want a permanent levitate enchant. Eh. Why not. Not really worth 400 cr though.

5 Gemini (25% insanity reduction on Gemini astrosphere)

6 Cancer (25% insanity reduction on Cancer astrosphere)

7 Gust <-- See levitate.

8 Leo (25% insanity reduction on Leo astrosphere)

9 Virgo (25% insanity reduction on Virgo astrosphere)

10 Flying <-- At 1k credits, you could have bought wings for much cheaper or a beast with flying.

11 Windwall 3x/day <-- Windwalls are the worst type of walls.

12 Libra (25% insanity reduction on Libra astrosphere)

13 Scorpio (25% insanity reduction on Scorpio astrosphere)

14 Windrunning (sprinting while flying) <-- No one will ever need to do this.

15 Sagittarius (25% insanity reduction on Sagittarius astrosphere)

16 Capricorn (25% insanity reduction on Capricorn astrosphere)

17 Wind Immunity - lasts 15 minutes, 3x/RL day <-- Why not make it a permanent buff? 1700 credits?

18 Aquarius (25% insanity reduction on Aquarius astrosphere)

19 Pisces (25% insanity reduction on Pisces astrosphere)

20 Skydive - while flying, you may instant teleport to target who is outdoors in the same area at ground level (similar to nature flow), lose entourage, arrive off-balance at ground level <-- Potentially useful, but needing to fly first makes it awkward to use. Flying right now is used for escape more than anything. Not really worth 2k.

Wonderpipe:

1 Cutting Damage <-- These are nice at 20 crystals, but unfortunately the eq time is slower than the balance time on whips. Why am I paying 2k credits when I could buy a whip for much cheaper and be more effective at bashing? The little extra damage difference really doesn't make up for this.

2 Blunt Damage

3 Deathsight (unlimited power) <-- We get this in discernment ever since that poorly planned merging of deathsight and deathsense. THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. Not worth 300 cr. At least before it provided what was essentially a permanent enchantment.

4 Magical Damage

5 Changeself (unlimited power) <-- Neat little ability. I've found some niche uses for it.

6 Fire Damage

7 Weather Shield (unlimited power) <-- Neat little ability.

8 Cold Damage

9 Geyser (unlimited power) <-- Eh. Free enchantment. Not worth 700 cr but I'll take it.

10 Asphyxiation Damage

11 Starleaper (1/game day) <-- Why once a day? It's really not that amazing. You can honestly make this unlimited and it would be fine. It can actually hurt you if you use it wrong.

12 Poison Damage

13 Astral Fling (1/game month) <-- 10/10. The only reason I keep my wonderwand. Great escape skill. Does not need to be changed. Smokestep might benefit from following its general outline.

14 Electricity Damage

15 Wondercure (1/game month) <-- Very amazing ability.

16 Psychic Damage

17 Resurrection (1/game month) <-- It requires a corpse to be in the room. With that limit, you should make it 1/day or unlimited.

18 Excorable Damage

19 Divinus Damage

20 Portals (unlimited power, restricted by plane/continent) <-- Situationally useful. More novelty than anything else.

Enyalida

Tarkenton said:

The other parts of it are extremely meh, the 20 crystal power hold no use for me. Pipe was borderline necessary for the race weapon buffs. 

Let's not buff horns to that degree, please.

Rivius

It's hyperbole anyway. The race buffs are not even set in stone yet. We don't know how effective they'll be at all.

Vivet

Yeah, the resurrection restrictions on the wonderwand are what made it really easy for me to decide to break it up for the horn (I can access quite a few damage types, so it's more worthwhile to me I guess). A once a day free immolation that doesn't require a trip to the nexus isn't that great, and I get portals elsewise.

Lorina

I think most wonderitems are awesome, but to be serious here, y'all are creating 'wonderitems' faster than my bankaccount can recharge. I blew everything on my wand and OHGODPRESENTS. Just...maybe pace the wonderitems, k? Because that's...what? 2000 credits X 5 in how many months?

Shuyin

Only the pipe is worth making anyway from a minmax pov. Second is the wand.

Shaddus

I enjoyed Rivius' breakdown on the wonder items, but disagree on the worth of the crystals.

They aren't worth 100 credits per, that's simply what people want to get for them. People have decided that because you get 1 per 100 credits, that makes them worth 100 credits each. If this were true, you're doubling your money on buying credits, and I'm pretty sure that's not what Estarra intended. If you consider them as though they were dingbat - style items, my opinion makes more sense. If you bought 100 credits and got 10 dingbats, that doesn't mean dingbats are worth 10 credits per.

Credits are really only worth what people will pay for them. Stop buying them ingame for a while and the price will go down. The reason they cost so much is because many people seem to need the new, shiny thing immediately without giving it some time for the price to go down.

Lerad

The pipe isn't actually that strong, the racial thing is nice for those with disposable income, but only if you went for the demi+ artifact as well, so it's not just a 2k investment. Stacking a demi+ and a demi racial ability is nice, but certainly not a requirement for combat.

Personally, the wonder items are sort of a "That's pretty sweet, but... not what I asked for." thing to me. When people were talking about multiple artifact effects in one item, I think they were thinking about consolidating currently existing artifacts into single items so they don't have to apply suspension of disbelief on their own characters wearing three pairs of boots, or six different hats, or an eyepatch over the poor Krokani player's only eye (but still somehow being able to see) etc. Or at least, I was.

The wonder items basically do that with a whole new slew of new artifact effects, but the old artifact effects remain as they are, and continue to tickle that unreachable spot on the inside of the back of my ribcage. The new effects are sweet and light fires under my min-maxing heart, but it's like being given a cup of gold filled to the brim with jewels while you're surrounded by a mountain of jewels that you desperately want an empty, iron cup to hold in. So good, but not quite what I wanted.

Of course, yeah, the parts about some of the effects being lackluster also hold true, though I personally think that's subjective and a matter of debate. I for one, would absolutely love the wonderwings. I play races that do not have innate flying, and flying is super under-rated for combat. Just really needs an effect to kidnap someone up to the skies and let them temporarily fly with you as you beat them down and that'll be perfect. The reason I didn't buy it, though, was because see previous paragraph. As well as a lack of discretionary funds, as well as the fact that I know I don't have as much time nowadays to bash on astral that much. So, yeah.

Tarkenton

From a minmax pov, being able to run demi+ and demi perks is pretty freaking sweet. Having aslaran pounce plus orclach damage boost and what was it, level 2 stat rune equivalent? Pretty dang nice. Is why I could run a 150/610/240 weapon (forging, night, l3s, racial) that hits heavy wounds on pretty much anybody on a single assault. 1 shot tendon is a beautiful thing in fights. Being able to chase+stun and hit like that? Was worth to me. Even with the forthcoming weapon changes, more speed and more damage (I assume equal to a rune slot) is not something to scoff at.

With the upcoming changes, be interesting to see what shakes out. I can't imagine the new runes bring more hideous than l3 in cost.

And, by the by Estarra, if it's a general balance does buff that happens from the rune slot, everyone will take it. Because faster balance on everything is a must.

Delsea

The crystals might not be worth 100cr on their own, but to get enough to form an item you have to buy 2000cr. That's a lot. And there's not always going to be a lot of spare crystals floating about in game, certainly not enough for many people to build their items past a few crystals without forking out themselves. I think some of the powers are really nifty but they are way too rich for me.

Shaddus

Delsea said:

The crystals might not be worth 100cr on their own, but to get enough to form an item you have to buy 2000cr.

You could ostensibly buy 1k credits and with patience, buy crystals at 50 per from people. The only reason these wonder items are so expensive is because people want them "now", not "sooner or later". The real cost here is convenience.

Delsea

Shaddus said:

The crystals might not be worth 100cr on their own, but to get enough to form an item you have to buy 2000cr.

You could ostensibly buy 1k credits and with patience, buy crystals at 50 per from people. The only reason these wonder items are so expensive is because people want them "now", not "sooner or later". The real cost here is convenience.

Perhaps, but then there is no knowing when the crystals will be available again. And each time they've been available, there has been a new wonder item to make, which will continually put the people who can't afford to buy them 'now' further behind. It's not like any other big credit purchase, where you could patiently save up to buy say, a cubix, because you know it will always be there waiting for you in the artifact shop. 

At least with dingbats there is a regular input of them into the game with elite memberships. 

Daraius

Crystals are also exiting circulation every time someone breaks down a wonder item.