Switching Forests

Kethaera

So I was talking about this with @Eliron earlier and wanted mention a few thoughts I had about the switch from Glomdoring to Serenwilde and the ridiculous number of hoops there were to jump through. It took weeks, as I started working on this well before Glomdoring Alliance Drama 2.0 and Forum Drama version who knows? Technically, it took real-life months, given how long I've been whittling down the number of Seren enemy brands I had... and then getting more... and then losing them again...

Anyway:

-Was enemied to Lisaera and the Moondancers(twice), Shofangi, Hoaracle, Serenwilde, Moonspirit and Maylea(at one time), Hartspirit... and, I'm sure there's several Gloms with longer lists.

-Cost over 200,000 in fines, more essence than I can remember, and many, many promises never to do it again. 

-Actually joining required talking to... um... 6 different people plus @Hoaracle (but He gave me tea), and writing a rather long, detailed letter about why I wanted to join.

-Over a week(two weeks?) of waiting for all this to happen from the time when I first brought it up officially.

-Two deaths to Avurekhos. A third to @Tarkenton when we raided(I mean, no, that wasn't required, but given how few skills I had and how little time I had to do anything with them, not surprising)

-A test of loyalty in the form of raiding Viravain's realm and EtherGlom.

The thing is, though, at a certain point in all this I felt very much committed to seeing it through, and I believe that those who argue in favor of "making it easier" to switch orgs or making things easier in general in terms of conflict/quests are thinking about this the wrong way. We know that in real life, you give 100 people a free ticket to an event, and maybe 5 of them will show up. You charge that same 100 people a dollar for the ticket, and you might sell only 20... but you're almost certainly going to see all 20 of those people there. People are more committed to things they have to work for or invest in- and the truth is, despite the snarky conversation with Eliron and being cast out of the family, that raid was still more fun than I've had in Glomdoring in weeks... maybe longer. So generally I feel pretty positive about the whole experience.

Which is not to say that it couldn't have gone badly, so I am pleasantly surprised it didn't. It helped that most of the people I talked to seemed to WANT me to join, even as they also seemed to keep adding new conditions every day... But there was always a sense of progress, where people responded to my messages fairly quickly and acknowledged that I'd done X task. And that since I didn't have to quit Glomdoring during all this time, I had other things to do while waiting. The biggest thing, though, was the fact that there was a reward at the end of it. 

In conclusion, Serenwilde, you're alright. And it should be hard to switch sides- if it's done well.

(I will miss the tea)

Tarkenton

Was a great raid/counter raid last night. Most exciting the game has been in weeks. Honestly, your death was incidental, you were in the room and hey, a target!

That being said, I agree with some. Switch to your polar opposite shouldn't be easy. Swapping from an ally or neutral org should be easier than it is for most.

Hope Seren is fun for you, glhf!

Cyndarin

I mean, I am having plenty of fun and joining Gaudiguch took all of 3 minutes (literally). I don't think the experience can be generalized like that. Having played for 250 IG years, RL months of hoop jumping is not something that makes me feel more committed, it makes me just not want to not bother. That being said, I think switching to rival orgs like that should involve more depth than me going to Freedomland, and I'm glad you got a genuine sense of engagement and enjoyment out of it. I'm only exceedingly bitter now that I am not in Glom to do the "I told you so," dance in front of the entire Court.

Hope you enjoy your new e-home, I know your level of commitment and involvement will make it better. I look forward to setting you on fire. 

Lerad

I think the requirements are fine, except for the time frames. Well, and the number of people to talk to. You don't really need to talk to all the different GMs as a requirement (I'm assuming it's the GM). I'm sure they would protest and seek you out if they had objections to your joining - let them decide whether they want to do it (or let the applicant decide if they want to cover their bases pre-emptively) instead of making it a bureaucratic requirement. That's just going to lengthen the time frame.

And waiting times should be imposed only for said GMs to raise objections (and resolve them) if they have any, not for the sake of waiting. One week for no reason is just lame.

200k gold? Lots of essence? Lots of promises? Deaths? That's all fine, and to be expected. But you guys really gotta do something about that timeframe. RL months is too much.

Gabriella

Lerad said:

I think the requirements are fine, except for the time frames. Well, and the number of people to talk to. You don't really need to talk to all the different GMs as a requirement (I'm assuming it's the GM). I'm sure they would protest and seek you out if they had objections to your joining - let them decide whether they want to do it (or let the applicant decide if they want to cover their bases pre-emptively) instead of making it a bureaucratic requirement. That's just going to lengthen the time frame.

And waiting times should be imposed only for said GMs to raise objections (and resolve them) if they have any, not for the sake of waiting. One week for no reason is just lame.

200k gold? Lots of essence? Lots of promises? Deaths? That's all fine, and to be expected. But you guys really gotta do something about that timeframe. RL months is too much.

Ah, in Serenwilde, in terms of guild enemy statuses, you have to talk to the Champions.  Sometimes though, they aren't available, and that's when the GMs would come into play.  As far as RL months goes, if you think about it, it's not entirely surprising, because her intentions weren't 'officially' made known until a week or so ago.  A lot of Serenwilders would be reluctant to unenemy someone who had been seen recently doing things against the Forest, and was from their polar opposite which we are in conflict with.  Once someone has announced their intentions, (and sometimes depending on how well-liked they are, or if they found someone who knows exactly what they need to do), the process I find usually goes a little bit more quickly, which is why she was inducted within a period of two weeks after her official announcement.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to add this, I wanted to address your point about waiting for no reason - as far as I am aware, the wait period was just to see if there were any objections, in addition to her having to wait to hear back from a person or two regarding a status (like Hartspirit and the one to Hoaracle's order for example.)  It's good she wasn't enemied to Charune - We don't have anyone that actively follows his order at the moment I think that is capable of removing a status.

Enyalida

Yes, it should be said that little of Kethaera's waiting time was involved with joining Serenwilde itself. All that time and gold was spent managing statuses and dealing with the guilds. Some of those guild statuses were snappy (like 'waiting for Hartspirit' took literal minutes for me to get the message and remind everyone relevant in Seren to read the ambassador CHELP). 

Shaddus

Enyalida said:

Some of those guild statuses were snappy (like 'waiting for Hartspirit' took literal minutes for me to get the message and remind everyone relevant in Seren to read the ambassador CHELP). 

Which really should be changed.

Enyalida

Eh?

Kethaera

Lerad said:

I think the requirements are fine, except for the time frames. Well, and the number of people to talk to. You don't really need to talk to all the different GMs as a requirement (I'm assuming it's the GM). I'm sure they would protest and seek you out if they had objections to your joining - let them decide whether they want to do it (or let the applicant decide if they want to cover their bases pre-emptively) instead of making it a bureaucratic requirement. That's just going to lengthen the time frame.

And waiting times should be imposed only for said GMs to raise objections (and resolve them) if they have any, not for the sake of waiting. One week for no reason is just lame.

200k gold? Lots of essence? Lots of promises? Deaths? That's all fine, and to be expected. But you guys really gotta do something about that timeframe. RL months is too much.

Not RL months, @Lerad. I didn't ask about it until a couple weeks ago. It took months to resolve the enemy statuses. And really, that was at least in part because I didn't say the reason why was wanting to join Serenwilde(or at least thinking about it.) In some regards, I wouldn't have minded if it had been harder. The waiting was only annoying after I'd done everything I needed to do, and was literally waiting for this one person to log in... but that was just one day. The only bad thing about waiting times generally, though, is when there's nothing to do during it.

I agree with @Celina's points made about there being a difference between switching from Glomdoring to Serenwilde versus Glomdoring to Gaudiguch... even so, it should be a big deal to move anywhere, if only so that you appreciate that there are ideological differences between one org versus another, and reasons why they all disagree-to-hate each other

Kethaera

Celina said:

I mean, I am having plenty of fun and joining Gaudiguch took all of 3 minutes (literally). I don't think the experience can be generalized like that. Having played for 250 IG years, RL months of hoop jumping is not something that makes me feel more committed, it makes me just not want to not bother. That being said, I think switching to rival orgs like that should involve more depth than me going to Freedomland, and I'm glad you got a genuine sense of engagement and enjoyment out of it. I'm only exceedingly bitter now that I am not in Glom to do the "I told you so," dance in front of the entire Court.

Hope you enjoy your new e-home, I know your level of commitment and involvement will make it better. I look forward to setting you on fire. 

I look forward to fighting you without words, @Celina. :P

Kethaera

Gabriella said:

Lerad said:

I think the requirements are fine, except for the time frames. Well, and the number of people to talk to. You don't really need to talk to all the different GMs as a requirement (I'm assuming it's the GM). I'm sure they would protest and seek you out if they had objections to your joining - let them decide whether they want to do it (or let the applicant decide if they want to cover their bases pre-emptively) instead of making it a bureaucratic requirement. That's just going to lengthen the time frame.

And waiting times should be imposed only for said GMs to raise objections (and resolve them) if they have any, not for the sake of waiting. One week for no reason is just lame.

200k gold? Lots of essence? Lots of promises? Deaths? That's all fine, and to be expected. But you guys really gotta do something about that timeframe. RL months is too much.

Ah, in Serenwilde, in terms of guild enemy statuses, you have to talk to the Champions.  Sometimes though, they aren't available, and that's when the GMs would come into play.  As far as RL months goes, if you think about it, it's not entirely surprising, because her intentions weren't 'officially' made known until a week or so ago.  A lot of Serenwilders would be reluctant to unenemy someone who had been seen recently doing things against the Forest, and was from their polar opposite which we are in conflict with.  Once someone has announced their intentions, (and sometimes depending on how well-liked they are, or if they found someone who knows exactly what they need to do), the process I find usually goes a little bit more quickly, which is why she was inducted within a period of two weeks after her official announcement.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to add this, I wanted to address your point about waiting for no reason - as far as I am aware, the wait period was just to see if there were any objections, in addition to her having to wait to hear back from a person or two regarding a status (like Hartspirit and the one to Hoaracle's order for example.)  It's good she wasn't enemied to Charune - We don't have anyone that actively follows his order at the moment I think that is capable of removing a status.

Which is what I meant about the "technically" part, @Gabriella. In-game, the first time I ever brought it up was right after @Salome's post about alliances. So the waiting really wasn't anything at all- though I suspect it might have taken longer if I hadn't been resolving some of those enemy statuses beforehand.

Really, the hardest part of it was the conversation with @Eliron (both before and after I left) and leaving Manteekan's order. I'm actually being slightly sarcastic when I said 'the ridiculous hoops to go through' in terms of joining Serenwilde.

Kethaera

Tarkenton said:

Was a great raid/counter raid last night. Most exciting the game has been in weeks. Honestly, your death was incidental, you were in the room and hey, a target! That being said, I agree with some. Switch to your polar opposite shouldn't be easy. Swapping from an ally or neutral org should be easier than it is for most. Hope Seren is fun for you, glhf!

Nah, I didn't have a problem with the death, @Tarkenton, even if I'd thought you were after me specifically. Heck, there would have been plenty of reason to be. Was amusing, though, sitting there in the fight thinking, uh... illusions, glamours... nope... acrobatics... shadowbeat... um. "Nature curse <target>" Yeah, take that!

Of course part of why I kept getting separated from the group was because A CERTAIN SEREN still had me enemied to his traps. No, no... it's ok. Positive thoughts...

Gabriella

Kethaera said:

Gabriella said:

Lerad said:

I think the requirements are fine, except for the time frames. Well, and the number of people to talk to. You don't really need to talk to all the different GMs as a requirement (I'm assuming it's the GM). I'm sure they would protest and seek you out if they had objections to your joining - let them decide whether they want to do it (or let the applicant decide if they want to cover their bases pre-emptively) instead of making it a bureaucratic requirement. That's just going to lengthen the time frame.

And waiting times should be imposed only for said GMs to raise objections (and resolve them) if they have any, not for the sake of waiting. One week for no reason is just lame.

200k gold? Lots of essence? Lots of promises? Deaths? That's all fine, and to be expected. But you guys really gotta do something about that timeframe. RL months is too much.

Ah, in Serenwilde, in terms of guild enemy statuses, you have to talk to the Champions.  Sometimes though, they aren't available, and that's when the GMs would come into play.  As far as RL months goes, if you think about it, it's not entirely surprising, because her intentions weren't 'officially' made known until a week or so ago.  A lot of Serenwilders would be reluctant to unenemy someone who had been seen recently doing things against the Forest, and was from their polar opposite which we are in conflict with.  Once someone has announced their intentions, (and sometimes depending on how well-liked they are, or if they found someone who knows exactly what they need to do), the process I find usually goes a little bit more quickly, which is why she was inducted within a period of two weeks after her official announcement.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to add this, I wanted to address your point about waiting for no reason - as far as I am aware, the wait period was just to see if there were any objections, in addition to her having to wait to hear back from a person or two regarding a status (like Hartspirit and the one to Hoaracle's order for example.)  It's good she wasn't enemied to Charune - We don't have anyone that actively follows his order at the moment I think that is capable of removing a status.

Which is what I meant about the "technically" part, @Gabriella. In-game, the first time I ever brought it up was right after @Salome's post about alliances. So the waiting really wasn't anything at all- though I suspect it might have taken longer if I hadn't been resolving some of those enemy statuses beforehand.

Really, the hardest part of it was the conversation with @Eliron (both before and after I left) and leaving Manteekan's order. I'm actually being slightly sarcastic when I said 'the ridiculous hoops to go through' in terms of joining Serenwilde.

Oh, I know @Kethaera . Those comments were directed at @Lerad !