My impression was that if you like X game so much, and dislike Y game so much, go play X game and enjoy yourself. Not "go away, we don't want you." Seems like some people just genuinely don't want to be here.
The draws to Lusternia have always been lore, culture, and RP environment. Achaea's draw has always definitively not been that. It is the PKers haven with RP as an optional DLC. So if you are looking for the same QoL and attention to mechanics as you find in Achaea in other IREs, you will eternally be disappointed. They will always have the ability to develop, adopt, and implement changes faster than other IREs.
As someone who enjoys RP and PK, I never enjoyed Achaea as much as Lusternia. It felt surprisingly empty as far as interaction went given how enormous the playerbase was. That's my experience though, and your dislike of Lusternia is yours. Play what you like, don't play what you don't. Don't be so unpleasant about it.
edit: that's not to say Lusternia cannot improve, or Achaea for that matter. Just don't have to be so "I'm here but I'm not paying you anything!" about it.
The irony is that in this particular situation, the suggested QoL change is entirely RP and for a part of RP that's notoriously lacking in Lusternia but present in every other IRE - being able to showcase tailoring designs semi-realistically (not a giant pile of hats and shoes) and use clothes as well as armor items.
I'd love to steal some of the basic QoL from Achaea for our own uses. Their ABs are about a million times better than ours, for one thing. Oh, if we had actually useful ABs...*wistful sigh*. Why don't we steal it?
Why is an informative, straightforward AB system such a pipe dream for us? How does hiding crucial information add anything to gameplay? It's not compelling or engaging to wonder what the hell some of your abilities even do, to have to check the wiki to even know what's left in the skillset you're learning, or to have to break out the calculator to work out how far away you are from whatever skill you want (and god forbid you have a truefavor, because then you literally cannot know.)
The ABs are largely written by the admins who worked on the skillset (not the coders mostly?). As such, some of them are extraordinarily explicit and informative in the text of the AB while some are.. not. None of the older skillsets have informative AB text, the most informative are some of the newer Gaudiguchian skills.
I totally agree that coy language in ABs and changelogs should go away, or (in the case of the former) be paired with clear effect explanations. A straightforwards effect block that describes the afflictions, damage types, durations, balance/cooldown costs would be really fantastic and useful with no drawbacks.
Maybe even add a general idea of how hard it should hit? Like: "Effect: Moderate fire damage with a 2 second stun. 50% chance at severe burns to slight with sunallergy. Requires balance, requires and consumes equilibrium for 3 seconds. 200 mana (at level 100)."
I don't know when any of you last played Achaea, but its playerbase has definitely matured. Plus, the sheer number of people (10 people per city during offpeak!) means it's almost always possible to grab somone for PK, RP, or whatever messy conspiracies and shenanigans you want.
And touting Lusternia as the be-all-end-all of RP is weak, at best. Sure, the game has the most captivating history and lore. But, it also requires a thriving playerbase to keep alive that atmosphere, and constantly denying QoL improvements that will make that playerbase more inclined to stay or even recruit more people to play is a mistake.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! I tried it for a couple months after I retired and it wasn't that appealing to me, and settled on Aetolia. Play what you enjoy.
Actually, I didn't tout it as the "be all" of anything. I said that's what draws people here, and it does, regardless of whether or not it's the "be all end all."
I don't see where they've consistently denied any QoL improvements for lack of wanting to make the game better. Overwhelmingly it's a time and manpower reason. It's very clear Lusternia severely fell behind schedule during the Overhaul, and now the admin are hard at work on reinvigorating the guild system with new ideas to address the specific concerns raised about the population spread and neglected guilds. Misrepresenting them as uncaring or uninterested in the players is unfair.
It absolutely has opportunity to grow, and it sounds like you have ideas, but your attitude is terrible. Coming from me, your attitude is terrible.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
There definitely have been arguments defending the lack of QoL mechanics, in this particular instance, with the glamrock artifact. Arguments have ranged from keeping its current form, "for the good of the tailors", to keeping its ridiculous price, since "it keeps the game funded and running".
There have been no accusations levied against the admin, and thus far there have been no admin input on the matter. In a sense, this is even more disheartening, because it means a certain subset of the players themselves seem to be against adding QoL improvements (the glamrock, again, in this particular instance), improvements that may help in retention and recruitment.
Overall, there is a vocal faction of the playerbase who seem content with the way things are, and defend this position with varying statements of "if you don't like it, don't play it," which is an unhealthy attitude for a small game like Lusternia.
If you want people to take you seriously, it'd behoove you not to misrepresent the arguments of others. There can be no conversation when you're acting in bad faith.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
o Scroll of Laurels will now hide honour info on the Irator API.
The
api gives basic things like level, race, org, guild, kills, deaths, and
explorerank. Knowing these basic things, I don't think should be
covered by the Scroll of Laurels ability.
I'm more in the camp of "if you don't like it, why are you playing it?" camp, but sure. It's not meant to be accusatory or indicting anyone. I genuinely want to know what keeps you (general you) here.
Lusternia gotta make it's revenue from somewhere. And if people aren't buying artifacts for basic QoL upgrades, what would they pay for? The game is making an active effort to avoid making more combat-boosting artifacts to avoid artifacts becoming mandatory. It's one thing to say that QoL upgrades should be free, but if you'd be better off offering actual alternatives in the artifact thread.
Edit: this is in response to @Kiradawea 's posts, two above.
Sure, let's turn back a few pages and take another look at the glamrock defense. The above, with the "it keeps the game funded and running" arugment.
Now, this one follows through at the end with a statement that a reduction in cost here should merit an increase in cost there, possibly in the form of new artifacts.
My question is, why? Again, these QoL mechanics Lusternians pay for with credits or lessons, the others get for free. Sometimes even in better form. They seem to be doing well enough.
And no, none of them are more prone to "pay to win" with combat boosting artifacts. It's more or less the same with Achaea as it is with Lusternia: damage classes (hello, warrior) benefit a lot from artifacts, affliction classes (occultist, Achaea shaman, guardians, wiccans) not so much.
This argument, that these kinds of mechanics must carry a heavy cost in order to finance the game, is not compelling enough to keep as is.
Okay, well, I will never, ever buy the glamrock. The reason is because it's very easy to have 2 aliases to take off my combat arties and put them back on as needed. Instant clutter removal made simple.
Also, regarding the argumemt that pricing QoL means lessening the pricing of PvP...is simply not true, especially over the past few years. Bubblixes that make or break aetherflares or domoths. Aethersuits. Wonder items. The list goes on.
Ya'll are real dramatic about the glamrock. I suspect it's not having a significant impact on the game from either side. If you want to make it sparkle more, ask an envoy to report it.
Well, when you say "denying QoL improvements," that reads as "admin." Players cannot deny you anything as far as mechanics go. So maybe you're complaining at people who can't help you for no reason. I suggest reaching out to those who can. Better AB files sounds like a great start, and something that takes very limited coding capability. Create a repository of rewritten ABs to help them out.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
I'm more in the camp of "if you don't like it, why are you playing it?" camp, but sure. It's not meant to be accusatory or indicting anyone. I genuinely want to know what keeps you (general you) here.
Most likely because people are more complicated than that. It's entirely possible to genuinely like an overall product even if there are elements of it that you don't. It's not game-breaking to be frustrated every once in a while.
I've half-seriously wondered sometimes if these games are secretly an elaborate social experiment to see how many petty frustrations people will tolerate and still play, though overall I absolutely love Lusternia and can't stay away.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
edit: that's not to say Lusternia cannot improve, or Achaea for that matter. Just don't have to be so "I'm here but I'm not paying you anything!" about it.
For, at least, some of us. It's not "I'm not paying you anything" but more "This doesn't make me want to give you money, but this would".
If you want people to take you seriously, it'd behoove you not to misrepresent the arguments of others. There can be no conversation when you're acting in bad faith.
Sure, let's also acknowledge the tone policing going on from the side favouring the status quo. It's really quite a gross attempt to shut people down.
I'm more in the camp of "if you don't like it, why are you playing it?" camp, but sure. It's not meant to be accusatory or indicting anyone. I genuinely want to know what keeps you (general you) here.
For me its friends, the world is interesting, I'm familiar enough with how stuff works and the investment here is nothing to scoff at.
The "why are you playing here?" question is one that people who aren't happy are probably asking themselves. It's also one that doesn't need to be asked, you should just expect that they enjoy the game for the most part but the things that they're unhappy about are pushing them away. Like... it seems entirely obvious that if there weren't reasons for them to stay then they wouldn't bother complaining they'd just leave.
Ya'll are real dramatic about the glamrock. I suspect it's not having a significant impact on the game from either side. If you want to make it sparkle more, ask an envoy to report it.
I hate this. It's very significant to the people who own them, or are seriously considering buying them. The complaints about the Glamrock are as old as the artifact. Still waiting for somebody to give their slot away to this (just as soon as all more important combat problems are fixed, I'm sure).
Same thing with the golden cookies. It's not fair that we have to rely on players to use envoy slots to fix things that @Estarra could address at her leisure.
The cookies have been reported and a note about the gold ones was made in the comments section, though it didn't make it to any of the solutions in time.
I think @Malarious is reporting the glamrock next cycle.
Regarding the Glamrock, I'm aware there are some issues with it, and it is not well liked. I'm going to be putting together some ideas to improve it in the next few days while I have spare time. If they will work, I would like to implement these; it may take some time as I have several projects to work on and this is a lower priority than the majority of them, but I'm hoping to have it done within the next few weeks. I may also liaise with a few folks here who have voiced their concerns about it.
o Scroll of Laurels will now hide honour info on the Irator API.
The
api gives basic things like level, race, org, guild, kills, deaths, and
explorerank. Knowing these basic things, I don't think should be
covered by the Scroll of Laurels ability.
This was added to bring the API in line with the scroll artifact, and brought to my attention by a bug. I have reverted a few fields, after discussion with envoys, not to be limited by scroll as I have been made aware that this affects a few player systems. I may revise this at a future time, but I will give warning if I do so player systems can adjust.
I'd love to steal some of the basic QoL from Achaea for our own uses. Their ABs are about a million times better than ours, for one thing. Oh, if we had actually useful ABs...*wistful sigh*. Why don't we steal it?
Why is an informative, straightforward AB system such a pipe dream for us? How does hiding crucial information add anything to gameplay? It's not compelling or engaging to wonder what the hell some of your abilities even do, to have to check the wiki to even know what's left in the skillset you're learning, or to have to break out the calculator to work out how far away you are from whatever skill you want (and god forbid you have a truefavor, because then you literally cannot know.)
Having accurate, informative ABs would be very handy to have ahead of the class-mashup of factions.
I am not familiar with Achaea's ABs, so I'm unsure how theirs differ from ours, but I personally (and I do not speak for the entirety of the Lusternia administration when I say this) do admit some of them can be bare. As for the 'accurate' claim, if any ABs are inaccurate, I do encourage anybody and everybody to use the ABBUG command to report them. As for improvements, our resources are currently allocated toward several other projects at this time.
An idea of how skill ABs could be improved would be helpful here, and I am open to feedback on such. As for actually doing it, it's not something I can personally see to at this time, but if anybody has any submissions for their skillsets, do feel free to send them my way via letter.
@Ianir what most people would like mostly involves two changes when you do AB {skill] 1)Currently we only see what abilities we already know. Being able to see ALL the abilities of a skill we have put some skill points into would be hugely appreciated. 2)knowing the amount lessens we need to spend to get the next ability(and ideally all the abilties) instead of guestimating and complicated mathwork on our part would also be HUGE things that LOT's of players would love.
Just having more descriptive AB's would be nice but the above two are common complaints that other IRE's do have and we don't.
oh, like... a QOL addition that I think MKO had (not sure if the others have it) which would be freaking amazing...
Folders for c/g/cl/o helps with the option to put restrictions on them (like over rank x or holding a specific position). It would be so nice, everything sorted and neat
Edit to add: Something like Imperian has would be amazing, where you can do AB [skill] RANKS. Which reports something like this, don't ask what the 'points' thing is. I have no clue: https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/bkVPDSTO
Edit to add: Something like Imperian has would be amazing, where you can do AB [skill] RANKS. Which reports something like this, don't ask what the 'points' thing is. I have no clue: https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/bkVPDSTO
Err yea the points thing is weird but if you replaced that with Lessons that'd be amazing. Then everyone would know how much they need to learn to get to a certain skill.
Oh yea and not sure if its been said directly but you can ab ability to see what the ability does even if you have not got the ability yet which is very useful.
Something that does help is that we do have AB PERCENTAGES, and I'm about 95% sure it works even with a TF.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
1
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Something that does help is that we do have AB PERCENTAGES, and I'm about 95% sure it works even with a TF.
I never knew this... does it work the same as asking a tutor denizen about a skill? Because that's still an extra translation step leading to a guess to how many lessons you still need.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Comments
Why is an informative, straightforward AB system such a pipe dream for us?
I just don't understand.
Vive l'apostrophe!
I totally agree that coy language in ABs and changelogs should go away, or (in the case of the former) be paired with clear effect explanations. A straightforwards effect block that describes the afflictions, damage types, durations, balance/cooldown costs would be really fantastic and useful with no drawbacks.
And touting Lusternia as the be-all-end-all of RP is weak, at best. Sure, the game has the most captivating history and lore. But, it also requires a thriving playerbase to keep alive that atmosphere, and constantly denying QoL improvements that will make that playerbase more inclined to stay or even recruit more people to play is a mistake.
Accountability is necessary.
I don't see where they've consistently denied any QoL improvements for lack of wanting to make the game better. Overwhelmingly it's a time and manpower reason. It's very clear Lusternia severely fell behind schedule during the Overhaul, and now the admin are hard at work on reinvigorating the guild system with new ideas to address the specific concerns raised about the population spread and neglected guilds. Misrepresenting them as uncaring or uninterested in the players is unfair.
There have been no accusations levied against the admin, and thus far there have been no admin input on the matter. In a sense, this is even more disheartening, because it means a certain subset of the players themselves seem to be against adding QoL improvements (the glamrock, again, in this particular instance), improvements that may help in retention and recruitment.
Overall, there is a vocal faction of the playerbase who seem content with the way things are, and defend this position with varying statements of "if you don't like it, don't play it," which is an unhealthy attitude for a small game like Lusternia.
Accountability is necessary.
Sure, let's turn back a few pages and take another look at the glamrock defense. The above, with the "it keeps the game funded and running" arugment.
Now, this one follows through at the end with a statement that a reduction in cost here should merit an increase in cost there, possibly in the form of new artifacts.
My question is, why? Again, these QoL mechanics Lusternians pay for with credits or lessons, the others get for free. Sometimes even in better form. They seem to be doing well enough.
And no, none of them are more prone to "pay to win" with combat boosting artifacts. It's more or less the same with Achaea as it is with Lusternia: damage classes (hello, warrior) benefit a lot from artifacts, affliction classes (occultist, Achaea shaman, guardians, wiccans) not so much.
This argument, that these kinds of mechanics must carry a heavy cost in order to finance the game, is not compelling enough to keep as is.
Accountability is necessary.
Accountability is necessary.
Well, when you say "denying QoL improvements," that reads as "admin." Players cannot deny you anything as far as mechanics go. So maybe you're complaining at people who can't help you for no reason. I suggest reaching out to those who can. Better AB files sounds like a great start, and something that takes very limited coding capability. Create a repository of rewritten ABs to help them out.
I've half-seriously wondered sometimes if these games are secretly an elaborate social experiment to see how many petty frustrations people will tolerate and still play, though overall I absolutely love Lusternia and can't stay away.
Sure, let's also acknowledge the tone policing going on from the side favouring the status quo. It's really quite a gross attempt to shut people down.
For me its friends, the world is interesting, I'm familiar enough with how stuff works and the investment here is nothing to scoff at.
The "why are you playing here?" question is one that people who aren't happy are probably asking themselves. It's also one that doesn't need to be asked, you should just expect that they enjoy the game for the most part but the things that they're unhappy about are pushing them away. Like... it seems entirely obvious that if there weren't reasons for them to stay then they wouldn't bother complaining they'd just leave.
I hate this. It's very significant to the people who own them, or are seriously considering buying them. The complaints about the Glamrock are as old as the artifact. Still waiting for somebody to give their slot away to this (just as soon as all more important combat problems are fixed, I'm sure).
Same thing with the golden cookies. It's not fair that we have to rely on players to use envoy slots to fix things that @Estarra could address at her leisure.
Vive l'apostrophe!
It's how we fix combat things. It's how we fix a lot of things. You can also email her, she's cut artifact prices before, no?
I think @Malarious is reporting the glamrock next cycle.
I'd like to address a few points here.
Regarding the Glamrock, I'm aware there are some issues with it, and it is not well liked. I'm going to be putting together some ideas to improve it in the next few days while I have spare time. If they will work, I would like to implement these; it may take some time as I have several projects to work on and this is a lower priority than the majority of them, but I'm hoping to have it done within the next few weeks. I may also liaise with a few folks here who have voiced their concerns about it.
This was added to bring the API in line with the scroll artifact, and brought to my attention by a bug. I have reverted a few fields, after discussion with envoys, not to be limited by scroll as I have been made aware that this affects a few player systems. I may revise this at a future time, but I will give warning if I do so player systems can adjust.
I am not familiar with Achaea's ABs, so I'm unsure how theirs differ from ours, but I personally (and I do not speak for the entirety of the Lusternia administration when I say this) do admit some of them can be bare. As for the 'accurate' claim, if any ABs are inaccurate, I do encourage anybody and everybody to use the ABBUG command to report them. As for improvements, our resources are currently allocated toward several other projects at this time.
An idea of how skill ABs could be improved would be helpful here, and I am open to feedback on such. As for actually doing it, it's not something I can personally see to at this time, but if anybody has any submissions for their skillsets, do feel free to send them my way via letter.
~ Ianir the Anomaly
1)Currently we only see what abilities we already know. Being able to see ALL the abilities of a skill we have put some skill points into would be hugely appreciated.
2)knowing the amount lessens we need to spend to get the next ability(and ideally all the abilties) instead of guestimating and complicated mathwork on our part would also be HUGE things that LOT's of players would love.
Just having more descriptive AB's would be nice but the above two are common complaints that other IRE's do have and we don't.
Folders for c/g/cl/o helps with the option to put restrictions on them (like over rank x or holding a specific position). It would be so nice, everything sorted and neat
Edit to add:
Something like Imperian has would be amazing, where you can do AB [skill] RANKS. Which reports something like this, don't ask what the 'points' thing is. I have no clue:
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/bkVPDSTO
Discord: Rey#1460
Err yea the points thing is weird but if you replaced that with Lessons that'd be amazing. Then everyone would know how much they need to learn to get to a certain skill.
Oh yea and not sure if its been said directly but you can ab ability to see what the ability does even if you have not got the ability yet which is very useful.