While I am here and curious, and since I missed the creation of the raining cure machine.
What other neutral items would you have liked to see to be used to distribute the cure over the entire area via rain clouds?
Im a little confused @Weiwae I thought the major grips about the event was that player roleplay and attempts were largely ignored when searching for cure attempts that didn't fit with the weather thing. There were a few seren rituals and a few natural attempts that were as stated previously by a different admin ignored due to him being busy with the Halifax approach. I don't think changing the items would fix much as it is simply the frustration of players who tried very hard to be part of an event but couldn't do to lack of admin attention, because well that is a finite resource. It frustrates people and makes them feel left out. Even if it's not done intentionally. There's no real solution other than having more active admin around during these events.
Because essence is power, and the basin revolves around power, I personally tend to default to the question of "Which essence type will make the most sense for this thing?"
Since I noticed here that players were concerned about cross-org requirements of essence, I thought I would expand my horizons and see what other ideas players would like to see, where power/essence would otherwise be used.
I can't do much about the things you brought up, but I can do something about essence being my personal "go to thing" in the future.
An entertaining solution for this event could have been... well pokeballs, use them on the mosquitos to capture live specimens, then drop those into the machine so it can churn them up and make a cure.
Really, if you go into events with an expectation that things will resolve in a way that's going to make you/your character happy then you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
I think that comment is little unfair, it's one thing if the railroad or competition event doesn't go the way you want but this wasn't either of those afaik. It could have resolved in a way that other orgs would have liked but it didn't and if it did (for at least both alliances) then we wouldn't have the other issue with accessibility.
Really, if you go into events with an expectation that things will resolve in a way that's going to make you/your character happy then you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
I think that comment is little unfair, it's one thing if the railroad or competition event doesn't go the way you want but this wasn't either of those afaik. It could have resolved in a way that other orgs would have liked but it didn't and if it did (for at least both alliances) then we wouldn't have the other issue with accessibility.
That's ridiculous though. You're basically asking the admins to do 6x the amount of work for every event just so every organisation can feel like they got a resolution that is agreeable for them.
While I am here and curious, and since I missed the creation of the raining cure machine.
What other neutral items would you have liked to see to be used to distribute the cure over the entire area via rain clouds?
Im a little confused @Weiwae I thought the major grips about the event was that player roleplay and attempts were largely ignored when searching for cure attempts that didn't fit with the weather thing. There were a few seren rituals and a few natural attempts that were as stated previously by a different admin ignored due to him being busy with the Halifax approach. I don't think changing the items would fix much as it is simply the frustration of players who tried very hard to be part of an event but couldn't do to lack of admin attention, because well that is a finite resource. It frustrates people and makes them feel left out. Even if it's not done intentionally. There's no real solution other than having more active admin around during these events.
Because essence is power, and the basin revolves around power, I personally tend to default to the question of "Which essence type will make the most sense for this thing?"
Since I noticed here that players were concerned about cross-org requirements of essence, I thought I would expand my horizons and see what other ideas players would like to see, where power/essence would otherwise be used.
I can't do much about the things you brought up, but I can do something about essence being my personal "go to thing" in the future.
An entertaining solution for this event could have been... well pokeballs, use them on the mosquitos to capture live specimens, then drop those into the machine so it can churn them up and make a cure.
Actually could have worked quite well with a lusternia/hallifax twist - hallifax could have 'designed' a stasis orb which is used to capture specimens that were then given to the appropriate denizen >_>
Never put passion before principle. Even if you win, you lose.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Really, if you go into events with an expectation that things will resolve in a way that's going to make you/your character happy then you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
I think that comment is little unfair, it's one thing if the railroad or competition event doesn't go the way you want but this wasn't either of those afaik. It could have resolved in a way that other orgs would have liked but it didn't and if it did (for at least both alliances) then we wouldn't have the other issue with accessibility.
That's ridiculous though. You're basically asking the admins to do 6x the amount of work for every event just so every organisation can feel like they got a resolution that is agreeable for them.
I'm not asking them to do anything, I could reiterate what Hoaracle said or you could just like... read his post about it.
Really, if you go into events with an expectation that things will resolve in a way that's going to make you/your character happy then you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
I think that comment is little unfair, it's one thing if the railroad or competition event doesn't go the way you want but this wasn't either of those afaik. It could have resolved in a way that other orgs would have liked but it didn't and if it did (for at least both alliances) then we wouldn't have the other issue with accessibility.
That's ridiculous though. You're basically asking the admins to do 6x the amount of work for every event just so every organisation can feel like they got a resolution that is agreeable for them.
I'm not asking them to do anything, I could reiterate what Hoaracle said or you could just like... read his post about it.
Hoaracle's post is literally him saying he'll try to do more in the future. You're being disingenuous about what you're really asking for here.
Er, no. It's Hallifaxian Healing, Hallifaxian Medicine, and Hallifaxian Engineering.
Which, for some characters is really a deal breaker. i.e For Saran... Nature is superior to anything the cities will ever produce and a lot of the comforts/advancements that cities offer are ultimately a weakness. Having to rely on Hallifaxian whatever you want to term it goes against that belief, he's not going to remain infected and endanger the forest because of it, but he's also not going to be entirely happy it either.
Maybe I'm just new here, but how is the Healing skillset of reading auras any different in Hallifax than it is in Serenwilde, Celest, or Glomdoring? I'm really interested in this, because by your words Calor used CITY HEALING!
Beyond this, I'm really concerned if -HERBAL- and -ALCHEMICAL- methods of mixing the cure up are considered Hallifaxian Medicine, shame on you guys with your LowMagic 'nature' medicine really being city practice, shame! The only thing Hallifax influenced in this -entire- event is the machine for the cure. You're welcome.
Really, if you go into events with an expectation that things will resolve in a way that's going to make you/your character happy then you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
I think that comment is little unfair, it's one thing if the railroad or competition event doesn't go the way you want but this wasn't either of those afaik. It could have resolved in a way that other orgs would have liked but it didn't and if it did (for at least both alliances) then we wouldn't have the other issue with accessibility.
That's ridiculous though. You're basically asking the admins to do 6x the amount of work for every event just so every organisation can feel like they got a resolution that is agreeable for them.
I don't think the issue is a lack of an alternative cure in itself it was the lack of any godly interaction when attempting to search for a cure, even if the gods would have interacted at least once in the attempts it works have made everyone feel included in the event. Even if the interaction was just to say the attempt was a failure. The problem was many people but in a lot of effort and got 0 response at all.
@Mardella this is why my first post ever was an apology. It honestly makes me feel bad that I got to be the lucky one when others were putting forth effort as well. We as a playerbase and the admins understand not everyone can be reached, and it really does kind of suck, a lot actually.
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Did the event turn out with a solution that could possibly cause a mild inconvenience for people, since it relies on a specific type of org essence? Yes. Would be better not to do that in the future. Could the admin have better split their time between different players exploring different avenues and coming up with different solutions? Probably.
I'm still super stoked about the way events have been handled recently. This is the second big event piece in a row that was written to be open-ended, and we the players directly and powerfully influenced its direction. This was not a case of an NPC saying, "I know how to cure the plague, but we need to build a machine! I need 8000 marble 2000 steel, 4267 mosquito wings, 10 million essence, and 2/3 of a squirrel tail to build it. Go!" We as players got to run our ideas and see what came of them, and the solution was ultimately in our hands.
This newer way of writing and playing out events is incredible. So thank you, admin, for all the work you're putting in. I didn't get to experience too much of the event this time around. But I got to read and watch some thing play out, and I was excited the whole time. You're awesome .
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
@Tamashi dont be silly, there is nothing for you to apologise for yourself. But thank you for recognising other people's concerns and understanding them.
Really, if you go into events with an expectation that things will resolve in a way that's going to make you/your character happy then you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
I think that comment is little unfair, it's one thing if the railroad or competition event doesn't go the way you want but this wasn't either of those afaik. It could have resolved in a way that other orgs would have liked but it didn't and if it did (for at least both alliances) then we wouldn't have the other issue with accessibility.
That's ridiculous though. You're basically asking the admins to do 6x the amount of work for every event just so every organisation can feel like they got a resolution that is agreeable for them.
I'm not asking them to do anything, I could reiterate what Hoaracle said or you could just like... read his post about it.
Hoaracle's post is literally him saying he'll try to do more in the future. You're being disingenuous about what you're really asking for here.
You're the one that incorrectly asserted that the discussion hadn't been about people being unable to progress their own cures, this was wrong.
Then you told people that they should just suck it up if there events don't end the way they like, which no one has actually asked for, you've just overstated peoples concerns... for reasons.
You've then overstated my posting, there's no blame, there's no demand, just the observation that things could have ended differently, they didn't, but that if they had we might not have the concerns about alliance lines. Which is something to consider if something like this happens again, maybe the admin could let things go and then narrow down the orgs that get focus to one on either side of the war, which is really only two lines to focus on which has been attempted previously and doesn't also have the work of running one for everyone.
Er, no. It's Hallifaxian Healing, Hallifaxian Medicine, and Hallifaxian Engineering.
Which, for some characters is really a deal breaker. i.e For Saran... Nature is superior to anything the cities will ever produce and a lot of the comforts/advancements that cities offer are ultimately a weakness. Having to rely on Hallifaxian whatever you want to term it goes against that belief, he's not going to remain infected and endanger the forest because of it, but he's also not going to be entirely happy it either.
Maybe I'm just new here, but how is the Healing skillset of reading auras any different in Hallifax than it is in Serenwilde, Celest, or Glomdoring? I'm really interested in this, because by your words Calor used CITY HEALING!
Beyond this, I'm really concerned if -HERBAL- and -ALCHEMICAL- methods of mixing the cure up are considered Hallifaxian Medicine, shame on you guys with your LowMagic 'nature' medicine really being city practice, shame! The only thing Hallifax influenced in this -entire- event is the machine for the cure. You're welcome.
Healing the skill is the same, but Moon also has healing powers herself, similarly Celestia offers healing as well. Both orgs also have healing available through their demesne users. These different bases would have resulted in radically different cures, focused through their power source. It's roleplay, not mechanics.
And yes, Alchemy is a nature practice. Silly hallifaxians being dependent on barbaric techniques to keep themselves alive though it's probably because Hallifax is generally bad with Biology apparently. But this didn't really come off as Alchemy, Alchemy is closer to alternative medicine where this appeared closer to modern medicine.
@Saran man there is just no pleasing you or a happy story from you, is there? Saying Hallifax doesn't have a biology department makes me wonder if you've ever been to the city. It also helps knowing the details of how it was made instead of just assuming you do and running with it. And that's nice that Moon and Sacraments have a healing method, but that's not the Healing skillset which you brought up. You have the option as a character, who hates reliance on machines, to just not get cured. Otherwise if you want it, enjoy the slight hypocrisy and lets move on. Good event, thanks for the fun!
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Well then, I seem to have missed a lot while I slept. 80+ pages on an issue that was pretty much done.
Also, sorry to anyone who comes across me today, I've been in severe pain for two days now and may not respond.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
@Tamashi. So you are aware, Saran was one of the founding members of the Institue and first members of Hallifax. Plus like... if you read the skill text for crystalweapon(I really remember it because I was in the group that was on the forums pushing for it to be more than just the wand), it references the fact that Bio advances are more an Illuminati thing which lead to Bio being their smallest department. Which makes sense from a roleplay standpoint, it's inefficient to expend resources on a department that another member of the empire is already specialising in and well... the usual racist stuff leading to people probably not wanting to be involved in the study that Gaudiguch specialises in.
It's actually kinda weird tbh that Hallifax has healing and Gaudiguch doesn't given the historic stuff, because they just never had the same advancements in that field.
EDIT: Anyway all that's being said here is that our characters really do see a significant difference in how each org does things and, especially for Serenwilde where the majority of our history reinforces that we should never trust the cities or rely on them in any way which in turn results in the entirely expected discomfort with using a "city" cure. Though it's probably worse for those who know Hallifax's secrets because you never know what they're going to do to you if they get a chance :P. (The Institute guards are probably the worst, but the generator is pretty bad, and I fully expect that Hallifax has an uncured strain of the plague stored somewhere)
Events take us beyond our mechanical abilities and into roleplay, so the fact that a Celestine Healer has Celestial powers, or that commune healer has a Great Spirit on their side, isn't something you ignore, it's something they work with and that shapes the result as it did with this event. I expect that Weiwae would have tuned the healing mound to expel the infection because Celest seems to work more through supernal/divine power, and Serenwilde could have been on-board with that or maybe worked at the Curse angle that we were apparently getting leaving our cure to be some kind of ritual cleansing. Glom I'm not too sure about, but I imagine their way would have been similarly different.
I'm not quite sure myself either why Illuminati got Hexes instead. But yea, currently in the Institute there are more members of the Laboratory of the Natural Sciences than any other, which funnily enough is bio and medicine. Times change I guess.
EDIT: Yes, Tamashi still has the vial of infected blood as I mentioned earlier in this thread.
1) Every event has a different conclusion. Sometimes Usually it will resolve in a way that favours one organization over another (because one organization ends up catching the attention of the admin and going with it-- we have a limited admin roster and defecating all over them for not being able to be everywhere at once surely doesn't help). I've been around a long time, I've seen a lot of events, complaining because the outcome is more scientific-y than magic-y is uncalled for. It's just one of those things that will happen from time to time (because we have an org based around science). It's equally not fair if everything is always Spirit-based. If it happens every time, sure, complain, but we don't have an excessive streak of All Hallifax Stuff right now. 1a) If you really want to address 1, when Estarra posts looking for ephemerals, apply. More ephemerals = more gods = more people who can help flesh out these events. 1b) If you don't want to apply, be thankful for the time and effort that they put in. I mean, I loathe skinrot and ditched most of this event because it's a mechanic that bugs me. I also really dislike that the cure requires cloudy essence. Both are things that I mentioned as constructive criticism for next time. They do not, however, in any way degrade the sheer amount of time and effort that went into this event to make it interesting and unique (and aside from those, it looked pretty well written/put together). That was actually pretty darn impressive. 2) I'm not sure where Twytch is coming from. The bulk of the complaints, up until I went to bed at least, were not about Hallifax whatsoever-- it was, in fact, about the fact that the admin decided to make cloudy essence and we were suggesting not doing that in the future. Then he starts posting about how it's not Hallifax's fault that cloudy essence was used. Um... yes? That's why we were mentioning it for the admin! 3) @Weiwae I definitely appreciate your willingness to look at things other than essence for events. Essence is one of those things that is really easy to say "Okay, let's just plug that in!" but if it's for something that's multiple-orgs-in-scope it can easily and quickly become a very limited resource (until and unless we get a neutral territory essence converter as per Shaddus' suggestion). Thank you!
Hmm. Re: neutral essence converter... How about utilising the seals? All seals have an org (granted, relatively loosely) tied to them through the Divine Havens (for instance, Celest is Knowledge and Magnagora is Harmony, which always makes me laugh). Putting essence into the seal would turn them into that essence instead. Could also easily take gold away, since gold is, somehow, tied to divine essence in that we can offer it to gods. Ta-da, neutral essence converters without needing any new fancy items or (probably very much) coding.
Also, IIRC, when seals go kaput every year, they still remain in their caves, so they wouldn't become useless at that point either.
If it's just about power greyessence could be an answer, nfi where you get it from but it's listed in file for designs alongside the other kinds of essence. Maybe it could be explained as more malleable than the typed essence and can be used as a replacement? Then you would just need a convert to grey mechanic.
Did you used to get it from killing fae too? Lets not do that. :<
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
I think greyessence is Xion-essence? In which case, probably not a good idea since it's not very readily available.
Which is why I was suggesting having something to convert essence into grey, have it strip away the influences from orgs and leave untyped essence in its place.
IIRC you get grey essence by killing cherubs / imps and putting them in the Well of Souls. Since this requires 1) Filling the Well, and 2) Raiding for imps/cherubs, it's a bit restricted without having another converter.
Again, the idea isn't that you actually get the grey essence and use that, it would just be to use the converter, could even have "pure" essence or w/e if grey is an issue.
I just like the idea of someone/thing that can scour essence to a pure state a bit more than someone/thing that replicates the capacities of the org essence changers.
Unrelated to anything that may have come before this:
MASSIVE EYEROLL x 9999999
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Comments
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Beyond this, I'm really concerned if -HERBAL- and -ALCHEMICAL- methods of mixing the cure up are considered Hallifaxian Medicine, shame on you guys with your LowMagic 'nature' medicine really being city practice, shame! The only thing Hallifax influenced in this -entire- event is the machine for the cure. You're welcome.
I'm still super stoked about the way events have been handled recently. This is the second big event piece in a row that was written to be open-ended, and we the players directly and powerfully influenced its direction. This was not a case of an NPC saying, "I know how to cure the plague, but we need to build a machine! I need 8000 marble 2000 steel, 4267 mosquito wings, 10 million essence, and 2/3 of a squirrel tail to build it. Go!" We as players got to run our ideas and see what came of them, and the solution was ultimately in our hands.
This newer way of writing and playing out events is incredible. So thank you, admin, for all the work you're putting in. I didn't get to experience too much of the event this time around. But I got to read and watch some thing play out, and I was excited the whole time. You're awesome
Then you told people that they should just suck it up if there events don't end the way they like, which no one has actually asked for, you've just overstated peoples concerns... for reasons.
You've then overstated my posting, there's no blame, there's no demand, just the observation that things could have ended differently, they didn't, but that if they had we might not have the concerns about alliance lines.
Which is something to consider if something like this happens again, maybe the admin could let things go and then narrow down the orgs that get focus to one on either side of the war, which is really only two lines to focus on which has been attempted previously and doesn't also have the work of running one for everyone.
So like... stop?
And yes, Alchemy is a nature practice. Silly hallifaxians being dependent on barbaric techniques to keep themselves alive though it's probably because Hallifax is generally bad with Biology apparently. But this didn't really come off as Alchemy, Alchemy is closer to alternative medicine where this appeared closer to modern medicine.
Also, sorry to anyone who comes across me today, I've been in severe pain for two days now and may not respond.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Which makes sense from a roleplay standpoint, it's inefficient to expend resources on a department that another member of the empire is already specialising in and well... the usual racist stuff leading to people probably not wanting to be involved in the study that Gaudiguch specialises in.
It's actually kinda weird tbh that Hallifax has healing and Gaudiguch doesn't given the historic stuff, because they just never had the same advancements in that field.
EDIT: Anyway all that's being said here is that our characters really do see a significant difference in how each org does things and, especially for Serenwilde where the majority of our history reinforces that we should never trust the cities or rely on them in any way which in turn results in the entirely expected discomfort with using a "city" cure.
Though it's probably worse for those who know Hallifax's secrets because you never know what they're going to do to you if they get a chance :P. (The Institute guards are probably the worst, but the generator is pretty bad, and I fully expect that Hallifax has an uncured strain of the plague stored somewhere)
Events take us beyond our mechanical abilities and into roleplay, so the fact that a Celestine Healer has Celestial powers, or that commune healer has a Great Spirit on their side, isn't something you ignore, it's something they work with and that shapes the result as it did with this event. I expect that Weiwae would have tuned the healing mound to expel the infection because Celest seems to work more through supernal/divine power, and Serenwilde could have been on-board with that or maybe worked at the Curse angle that we were apparently getting leaving our cure to be some kind of ritual cleansing. Glom I'm not too sure about, but I imagine their way would have been similarly different.
EDIT: Yes, Tamashi still has the vial of infected blood as I mentioned earlier in this thread.
1) Every event has a different conclusion. Sometimes Usually it will resolve in a way that favours one organization over another (because one organization ends up catching the attention of the admin and going with it-- we have a limited admin roster and defecating all over them for not being able to be everywhere at once surely doesn't help). I've been around a long time, I've seen a lot of events, complaining because the outcome is more scientific-y than magic-y is uncalled for. It's just one of those things that will happen from time to time (because we have an org based around science). It's equally not fair if everything is always Spirit-based. If it happens every time, sure, complain, but we don't have an excessive streak of All Hallifax Stuff right now.
1a) If you really want to address 1, when Estarra posts looking for ephemerals, apply. More ephemerals = more gods = more people who can help flesh out these events.
1b) If you don't want to apply, be thankful for the time and effort that they put in. I mean, I loathe skinrot and ditched most of this event because it's a mechanic that bugs me. I also really dislike that the cure requires cloudy essence. Both are things that I mentioned as constructive criticism for next time. They do not, however, in any way degrade the sheer amount of time and effort that went into this event to make it interesting and unique (and aside from those, it looked pretty well written/put together). That was actually pretty darn impressive.
2) I'm not sure where Twytch is coming from. The bulk of the complaints, up until I went to bed at least, were not about Hallifax whatsoever-- it was, in fact, about the fact that the admin decided to make cloudy essence and we were suggesting not doing that in the future. Then he starts posting about how it's not Hallifax's fault that cloudy essence was used. Um... yes? That's why we were mentioning it for the admin!
3) @Weiwae I definitely appreciate your willingness to look at things other than essence for events. Essence is one of those things that is really easy to say "Okay, let's just plug that in!" but if it's for something that's multiple-orgs-in-scope it can easily and quickly become a very limited resource (until and unless we get a neutral territory essence converter as per Shaddus' suggestion). Thank you!
Also, IIRC, when seals go kaput every year, they still remain in their caves, so they wouldn't become useless at that point either.
EDIT: If that got changed, then it wouldn't surprise me since nobody used it anyway.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
IIRC you get grey essence by killing cherubs / imps and putting them in the Well of Souls.
Since this requires 1) Filling the Well, and 2) Raiding for imps/cherubs, it's a bit restricted without having another converter.
I just like the idea of someone/thing that can scour essence to a pure state a bit more than someone/thing that replicates the capacities of the org essence changers.
MASSIVE EYEROLL x 9999999