Whenever I see @Rancoura PK, I am reminded of Galadriel busting her moves. Much :x
Rancoura: You have no power here, not-a-servant of the Wyrd! You are nameless, faceless, formless. Go back to the void from whence you came! *stomp toad*
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Whenever I see @Rancoura PK, I am reminded of Galadriel busting her moves. Much :x
Rancoura: You have no power here, not-a-servant of the Wyrd! You are nameless, faceless, formless. Go back to the void from whence you came! *stomp toad*
Oh my Night. How did I not realize that Rancoura is evil Galadriel?
Tonight amidst the mountaintops And endless starless night Singing how the wind was lost Before an earthly flight
Also, yay for the forums change. Now I can post without typing in weird code boxes on my phone.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'm not sure what changed is it the preview button?
Your numbers today are:
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Looks like all our posts are being done in the unformatted way? Don't know.
Also, clicking "Mark All Viewed" doesn't quite work like it did.
And if @Rancoura is evil Galadriel, that gives me hope that like Galadriel, she can come to see the light :P .
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I'm not sure what changed is it the preview button?
Everything defaults to HTML format now, you can't switch to none-HTML. Makes it easier to post on mobile, but makes PC-posting a bit less clean. Also, lost the second toolbar (only have the top toolbar, but not the "extended" one that had font selection, sizing, etc. so you have to manually do it with html code).
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Credits currently available for purchase: 10 credits at 54000 gold per credit. 100 credits at 55000 gold per credit. 20 credits at 59994 gold per credit. 18 credits at 59995 gold per credit. 14 credits at 60000 gold per credit. Total credits for sale: 162 shown (162 total) (Average sale price: 49205) Use CREDITS BUY AT to purchase.
Credits currently available for purchase: 10 credits at 54000 gold per credit. 100 credits at 55000 gold per credit. 20 credits at 59994 gold per credit. 18 credits at 59995 gold per credit. 14 credits at 60000 gold per credit. Total credits for sale: 162 shown (162 total) (Average sale price: 49205) Use CREDITS BUY AT to purchase.
The economy is fine, guys. Really.
To be fair, the circumstances were out of the ordinary. Someone was selling crystals for credits at well under market rates, so credit demand spiked (as Falmiis suggested). While credit prices have been pretty high for the past week or two, this is an anomaly.
It's a symptom of both too much gold and too few credits circulating the economy. And considering regular credit prices jumped 5k (35k -> 40k, or around 14%) since I started playing 4 months ago, give or take a couple of weeks, we should get ready for regular prices like the above!
Lets be honest - you didn't start playing 4 months ago. Maybe on Twytch, but you're well aware of other things that have happened in the much farther past than 4 months ago, you also likely know that credit prices have been a pretty stable 40k-50k for probably at least a year now, if not longer. Sometimes it swings higher, others it drops a bit, but 40k average seems pretty consistent.
I'm at the point where I'm wondering why I even play any more. All I do lately is deal with raids, which are not fun for me, and I never do the things that were fun for me.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
If I am ever raiding and you are the only person around just send me a tell saying "hey look, I am the only defender and I am burnt out on this can you cut me a break today?"
Unless you are one of two players, or use that excuse every time I raid :P, I am likely to believe you and stop. I am not playing the game to make anyone else's playing experience feel like crap.
That's why when I logged on today and saw the raid I went to prime glom to scent and see if there was even any defenders. There was you and Versalaen. I told the North clan this. Then I was about to leave when my Timeslip dropped to Versalean so thought "oh cool a fight" so stuck around a moment. I did not expect the other two to show up and chase Versalaen off. So when that happened I shrugged and went back to Serenwilde.
Lets be honest - you didn't start playing 4 months ago. Maybe on Twytch, but you're well aware of other things that have happened in the much farther past than 4 months ago, you also likely know that credit prices have been a pretty stable 40k-50k for probably at least a year now, if not longer. Sometimes it swings higher, others it drops a bit, but 40k average seems pretty consistent.
Yup, last time I played was 2010-13, and I remember prices back then was at 20k when I left. I don't see how that's relevant -- if anything, it shows that Lusternia's economy is even more outrageously broken, considering Achaea's moves at a slower pace (6k-7k over a three-year period). Even Imperian's credit price inflation is pretty low, and gold generation there is much easier (there are areas which generate a ridiculous amount of gold).
If I am ever raiding and you are the only person around just send me a tell saying "hey look, I am the only defender and I am burnt out on this can you cut me a break today?"
Unless you are one of two players, or use that excuse every time I raid :P, I am likely to believe you and stop. I am not playing the game to make anyone else's playing experience feel like crap.
That's why when I logged on today and saw the raid I went to prime glom to scent and see if there was even any defenders. There was you and Versalaen. I told the North clan this. Then I was about to leave when my Timeslip dropped to Versalean so thought "oh cool a fight" so stuck around a moment. I did not expect the other two to show up and chase Versalaen off. So when that happened I shrugged and went back to Serenwilde.
There's usually one or two other people, but it's like I get up there, I start to defend and go.. why am I even here? They're going to do this whether I'm here or not, I don't find this fun, so why am I here? and walk away. You're one of the rarer raiders, for me.
The worst is when I leave and I get tells saying "We're not doing this?" (paraphrased) from raiders, as happened the other day. Which I generally lose my temper at, because if I'm leaving leave me alone.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Or at least, just directly comparing CREDITS FOR SALE info is insufficient for any meaningful comparison. You could theoretically use some kind of standard index to figure out the time-cost of generating gold is in each game and go from there to compare credit economies, but I don't think anyone has gone to the effort, certainly not lately.
The same mechanics work across all IREs. A substantial amount of credits on the market is from OOC purchases. Gold is generated within the game through bashing, questing (and influencing, for Lusternia). People generate gold and use it to buy credits. That is true whether you're playing Achaea, Lusternia, Aetolia, whatever IRE MUD there is.
Perhaps the greatest difference is the amount of people. Achaea has a far, far larger playerbase, which means more people to buy credits OOCly (and thus bringing that into their market). They also seem to have a healthier newbie retention rate (even factoring in the odd IRE retiree), possibly because credit prices are low enough that newbies can 'dip in' easily before taking the larger credit-purchase plunge.
On the other hand, we have roughly the same population as Imperian. The gold generation is more or less the same. So who knows why we have the price spikes that they don't. (theory: Imperian has a more stable supply of regular credits that get sold on their market).
@Enyalida I've been doing that, actually (with Imperian and Lusternia for now; Achaea has been chaotic as they've had a world event of sorts). I can influence up 1-3 credits per hour in Lusternia (1-2 if just taking into account the gold I actually generate from charity influencing; 3 credits if the esteem sale is taken into account, but I don't because that's gold other players have generated). On the other hand, I can bash up 5-6 credits per hour in Imperian (the discrepancy is if I have competition in the high-gold area, and usually there's 1 other person bashing there).
I'm going to try bashing for gold (lol, how 2 bash in Lusternia) next after I'm done with collecting Imperian data.
Imperian prices: average of 16k per credit Lusternian prices: average of 37k per credit
For instance, is there an esteem market in any other game? That certainly plays a role within the gold source in Lusternia.
Playerbase is another factor that differs wildly between Achaea and Lusternia and would play a role in how the economy functions.
I'm not saying things are not broken here, I'm saying that credit market spiking for a period isn't an indication of that, because this spike does appear to be more an anomaly than the norm.
(Just from your examples of credit buying 3 at 37k = 111k gold, 6 at 16k = 96k gold, that's reasonably similar gold production, yet the market is still different, meaning there's other factors affecting it!!!!!)
One thing may be that Lusternian's tend to buy crate deals more (wheel spins etc) which typically result in bound credits over free credits. I don't know what deals other IRE's have, but something to consider......
All MUD economies are outrageously broken, because they don't have real economies. Jeremy has posted in depth about Mudflation on the Achaea boards (I wish I could find it, it's really interesting to read). It's a "balance" between the forever diminishing value of in game currency across the lifetime of the game versus the static price of out of game currency. One is generated by time, one is generated by real world currency. There's no rational measurement of one against the other outside of supply and demand.
The cost of a credit in gold terms, especially compared as snapshots across multiple games that don't interact with one another at all, is a meaningless measurement. Even comparing inflation rates isn't particularly telling because the economies, unlike real world economies, operate entirely independently of one another with literally no interaction.
Comments
Evil uncooperative quote boxes
Rancoura: You have no power here, not-a-servant of the Wyrd! You are nameless, faceless, formless. Go back to the void from whence you came! *stomp toad*
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
Also, yay for the forums change. Now I can post without typing in weird code boxes on my phone.
Also, clicking "Mark All Viewed" doesn't quite work like it did.
And if @Rancoura is evil Galadriel, that gives me hope that like Galadriel, she can come to see the light :P .
Mechanically impossssiiibleeee
10 credits at 54000 gold per credit.
100 credits at 55000 gold per credit.
20 credits at 59994 gold per credit.
18 credits at 59995 gold per credit.
14 credits at 60000 gold per credit.
Total credits for sale: 162 shown (162 total) (Average sale price: 49205)
Use CREDITS BUY AT to purchase.
The economy is fine, guys. Really.
To be fair, the circumstances were out of the ordinary. Someone was selling crystals for credits at well under market rates, so credit demand spiked (as Falmiis suggested). While credit prices have been pretty high for the past week or two, this is an anomaly.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Unless you are one of two players, or use that excuse every time I raid :P, I am likely to believe you and stop. I am not playing the game to make anyone else's playing experience feel like crap.
That's why when I logged on today and saw the raid I went to prime glom to scent and see if there was even any defenders. There was you and Versalaen. I told the North clan this. Then I was about to leave when my Timeslip dropped to Versalean so thought "oh cool a fight" so stuck around a moment. I did not expect the other two to show up and chase Versalaen off. So when that happened I shrugged and went back to Serenwilde.
The worst is when I leave and I get tells saying "We're not doing this?" (paraphrased) from raiders, as happened the other day. Which I generally lose my temper at, because if I'm leaving leave me alone.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Perhaps the greatest difference is the amount of people. Achaea has a far, far larger playerbase, which means more people to buy credits OOCly (and thus bringing that into their market). They also seem to have a healthier newbie retention rate (even factoring in the odd IRE retiree), possibly because credit prices are low enough that newbies can 'dip in' easily before taking the larger credit-purchase plunge.
On the other hand, we have roughly the same population as Imperian. The gold generation is more or less the same. So who knows why we have the price spikes that they don't. (theory: Imperian has a more stable supply of regular credits that get sold on their market).
@Enyalida I've been doing that, actually (with Imperian and Lusternia for now; Achaea has been chaotic as they've had a world event of sorts). I can influence up 1-3 credits per hour in Lusternia (1-2 if just taking into account the gold I actually generate from charity influencing; 3 credits if the esteem sale is taken into account, but I don't because that's gold other players have generated). On the other hand, I can bash up 5-6 credits per hour in Imperian (the discrepancy is if I have competition in the high-gold area, and usually there's 1 other person bashing there).
I'm going to try bashing for gold (lol, how 2 bash in Lusternia) next after I'm done with collecting Imperian data.
Imperian prices: average of 16k per credit
Lusternian prices: average of 37k per credit
For instance, is there an esteem market in any other game? That certainly plays a role within the gold source in Lusternia.
Playerbase is another factor that differs wildly between Achaea and Lusternia and would play a role in how the economy functions.
I'm not saying things are not broken here, I'm saying that credit market spiking for a period isn't an indication of that, because this spike does appear to be more an anomaly than the norm.
(Just from your examples of credit buying 3 at 37k = 111k gold, 6 at 16k = 96k gold, that's reasonably similar gold production, yet the market is still different, meaning there's other factors affecting it!!!!!)
One thing may be that Lusternian's tend to buy crate deals more (wheel spins etc) which typically result in bound credits over free credits. I don't know what deals other IRE's have, but something to consider......
The cost of a credit in gold terms, especially compared as snapshots across multiple games that don't interact with one another at all, is a meaningless measurement. Even comparing inflation rates isn't particularly telling because the economies, unlike real world economies, operate entirely independently of one another with literally no interaction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudflation