I really don't understand why people are trying
to tell people how to play a game (a thing you do for relaxation and
enjoyment), but I suspect they're motivated by wanting to get kills in a
lopsided situation.
The irony of this statement coming from one of the most notorious
fair-weather fighters in the game is amusing. Sorry @Maligorn, I know
you only want to fight when you're guaranteed a victory but some of us
actually like good fights, hence calling people out when they only want
to fight when things are one-sided in their favor.
It's like you don't get it. People are allowed to play the way they
want, and obligating them to play your way is asinine. I don't believe
I'm a fairweather fighter; the only PK opportunities I really turn down
are ones that are grossly outnumbered or demi domoth claims. But you can
keep using that as an insult if you want, just like Celina likes to
call me a baddie. It makes it all the sweeter when I actually do
land/enable kills on you
But even if I were a fairweather fighter, you have no right to shame people over it (and yes, I'm aware that I've done it before). Just let people do their thing.
. You have people in the North being chastised for trying by people doing nothing. That's a terrible attitude.
Yes, I totally agree that is some really horrible bullshit going on. I
wish there were some name and shame. If you're playing the game this
way, then you do need to stop. This is independent of the point I'm
trying to make: that you're trying to encourage the North to suicide
into the South more often for your idea of fun, as if things like
Inferno or Bonds are going to change suddenly and have a real counter to
them. (Yes, I really do think all meld bombs are stupid and discourage
combat -- but especially Pollute and Inferno by virtue of being one
damage type.)
But this mentality that you're only going to fight when things favour you is something people need to get over.
Here's the thing: I agree with you. The passive fighting style of the
North comes to a head at Ascension Trials and Ascension itself, and lo
and behold, last year's Ascension was a big failure. But forcing
everyone to do it your way isn't feasible -- and taking from Yarith's
example in this situation isn't good either. A domoth absolve is not
where you're going to learn to git gud. Basically anywhere else, sure,
we need to jump into it more and damn the consequences. Moreover, we
need to foster the people that are willing to lead into such situations and not tear them down
-- it does lead to good things (see: Kelly's Ascension).
I guess what I'm trying to say, really, if I had to summarize my grievances and thoughts on the matter is that you need to be more patient. The North isn't going to change overnight -- and we're not going to force fairweathers or negative people to get to where we need to be, because this is ultimately a game.
Everyone has the right to shame fairweather fighters. Just like you have the right to be one. Having the right to a choice is not the same as having a right to not be criticized for that choice. If your choice is harmful, expect for others to exercise their right to criticize you for it.
I managed to make a fairly decent nuisance of myself for that last absolve. Died a lot, learned that Bubble acts kinda weird when the demesne supporting it is entirely broken.
I'm Lucidian. If I don't get pedantic every so often, I might explode.
See, the reason I point these things out is because there are certain complaints that come out, like bonds and inferno, when those aren't the real issues with why the North loses. If you think I'm advocating suiciding into a giant group over and over, then you are even more wrong than you were about drunkenfool (and you were incredibly wrong there, had you actually read the report and comments, I specifically mentioned that it would cost 5p still). I actually believe my comments encouraged several people to help @Yarith yesterday.
Since you clearly can't read, I'm not advocating suicide missions. I'm advocating fighting when you don't have a guaranteed chance to win, not when it's so outnumbered you just all fall over flat and die (and even then, you can pull off surprising results). If you think you can't learn something from trying to stop a domoth absolve, and get better as a result, you are absolutely wrong. You can learn something from every fight. If @Yarith and @Twytch were more on the ball, they could have timequaked several people (myself included). If you actually read my comments (which I'm dubious about since you thought drunkenfool didn't take power), you'll notice that I usually point out fair scenarios (like it being 9v9 during the one absolve attempt), or situations where people were just raiding, and then just let an absolve slip through.
The funny thing is you basically agree with me, but for some reason want to argue it out.
Yeah I still need highlights for Insititue things. @Synkarin had full rubies for a full 3+ seconds but it wasn't highlighted on my end, so it was lost in combat spam. Also, what's up with not being able to pre-target gems? That's stupid, please fix
I also need a few credits to trans Harmonics and Aeonics :< But whatever, Astrologer master race. Bring on the meteors baby.
You were probably better off going meteor and that was my fault. At one point I tanked enough to get full gems on Cyndarin for the shatterplex, had all the conditions for the instakill but didn't get to pull it off because she just focused off timewarps under aeon instead of eating dust for asthma cure. There was no way I was pulling off Soulless there so the only viable kill method we had open was meteor.
You have to be on eq, have the target in the room to target gems. It's all an aggressive action so you will hit shields and timeslip for fixing them.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
I guess the reason I'm arguing (other than for the sake of arguing) is because I don't like to push people, and especially hate seeing people pushed. I also don't like you dangling your achievements and methods in our face and expecting us to just get better.
I also, of course, believe this is a seriously imbalanced game. Looking from the broadest strokes, anyone would be able to tell you that in this game, offensive skillsets > defensive skillsets. This is further exacerbated by the alliances right now, which put all the offensive orgs in one pile and all the defensive orgs in another. Rather like a team of 5 Sorakas vs a team of 5 Jaxes. If you're spending power to heal yourself with Trueheal or Full, 95% of the time that means you're not going to be able to use that power to actually kill your opponent, since instakills and building to that instakill require power also. Would an alliance shakeup solve this problem? I actually think it would help quite a bit. Forget the arguments about hekoskeri, bonds (inconsequential with the glaring problem I've presented (and also makes victory much more sweet when you do overcome those obstacles)) -- this is what really needs a fix, and unfortunately might require a lot of overhauling (again).
Because the game is imbalanced, I don't expect people to get very invested in it like others have.
BEYOND THAT, I also agree that if your attitude is in the shitter, then you aren't going to succeed in a lot of things beyond Lusternia. But I'm not so presumptuous as to dictate how people are supposed to act.
If you guys have the 3rd person shatterplex line triggered, or trigger off a clan call-out, you could potentially pull off some very quick unstoppable timequakes in groups.
The only thing about rubies and shatterplex is that anyone seeing you do it will basically do the smart thing and run haha.
Except I was alone at that point and Twytch can neither shatterplex nor timequake (yet!). I have everything highlighted and triggered.
And you should never be able to pull off shatterplex -> timequake in groups. It's extremely easy to catch, gust the person out and reset. Unlike night twist rubies poof and you can outpace two reserchers giving you rubies with highmagic/psionics. It also means the researchers are doing nothing to keep the person in the room when they have little in the way of doing so passively.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
Because the game is imbalanced, I don't expect people to get very invested in it like others have.
BEYOND THAT, I also agree that if your attitude is in the shitter, then you aren't going to succeed in a lot of things beyond Lusternia. But I'm not so presumptuous as to dictate how people are supposed to act.
I guess the reason I'm arguing (other than for the sake of arguing) is because I don't like to push people, and especially hate seeing people pushed. I also don't like you dangling your achievements and methods in our face and expecting us to just get better.
I also, of course, believe this is a seriously imbalanced game. Looking from the broadest strokes, anyone would be able to tell you that in this game, offensive skillsets > defensive skillsets. This is further exacerbated by the alliances right now, which put all the offensive orgs in one pile and all the defensive orgs in another. Rather like a team of 5 Sorakas vs a team of 5 Jaxes. If you're spending power to heal yourself with Trueheal or Full, 95% of the time that means you're not going to be able to use that power to actually kill your opponent, since instakills and building to that instakill require power also. Would an alliance shakeup solve this problem? I actually think it would help quite a bit. Forget the arguments about hekoskeri, bonds (inconsequential with the glaring problem I've presented (and also makes victory much more sweet when you do overcome those obstacles)) -- this is what really needs a fix, and unfortunately might require a lot of overhauling (again).
Because the game is imbalanced, I don't expect people to get very invested in it like others have.
BEYOND THAT, I also agree that if your attitude is in the shitter, then you aren't going to succeed in a lot of things beyond Lusternia. But I'm not so presumptuous as to dictate how people are supposed to act.
You've already proven your idea of 'balance' isn't actually balanced. Notice how you only ever complain about South skills being overpowered, even after your 'glaring' problems have actually been refuted, several times. I'm curious how Serenwilde and Celest succeeded as dominate powerhouses for quite some time despite being 'defensive' skillsets. I agree offensive skillsets are better, but only because it teaches you not to rely on powerful defensive skills. Not because the 'defensive' skillsets are somehow inferior to offensive ones. I think Institute > Illuminati and it's a defensive skillset. So much so that a @Yarith switched back to it because he was so squishy as a bard.
I don't really have much in the way of a choice when I melt in 2 seconds of people focusing me. Especially with meldbomb damage.
I'm better off being a tanky institute than not fighting at all. Also, when I went up as a bard the first time I went up to do domoths I achieved very little (not that I achieved much more as an institute but I at least got the conditions for a kill method). I think the defense skillsets which the north has in its guardians are the only thing which allow me to do much of anything in groups. This was true when I was Celestine, Moondancer, and Institute. I think it's also why we have an overflowing amount of guardians.
Edit: Healing Shadowdancers are an entirely offense orientated guild with healing stuck on. A little different when you become a lot less threatening because half your primary/secondary are devoted to keeping you alive. Best case senario, you have more people and half an offense. Worst case senario you have no way to get a kill and live forever.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
I'm not saying south skills are stronger, but I think there is merit in the argument that if you put all the offensive skills on one side and all the defensive skills on another you will at least see that there will be more options available to the side with all the offensive skills. Again, not saying one side is more powerful than the other. I am purely talking about variety of options.
I also think that Institute are > Illuminati, absolutely.
But I wouldn't call them a defensive class because they are very hybrid. Unlike Celestines and Moondancers, they have a lot of no-power passives to cure themselves, as well as no-power actives to cure themselves.
Institute are just great all around. But I don't think that makes my argument less valid.
Right. But the kill potential of an SD isn't compromised by sacrificing its passive tics for healing or defs which pale compared to things like passive paralysis and bleeding/haemophilia when you have extreme synergy with the rest of your org in both dust balance pressure and mana drains. Nor does it lose its power moves for things like a spamable prismatic. Granted Night does have shadowdance drink, but if you think a healing shadowdancer has equal kill potential and success in 1v1 or small skirmishes compared to a healing moonie or Celestine.. idk.
Edit: I guess the most important thing is that healing yourself is great but, in the end, it doesn't achieve anything. Heals and cures don't synergize and staying alive to take 1 extra destro or cure off pox under aeon isn't doing leap and bounds when I could be hindering the person we're focusing.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
Yes, I would say bonds is used as much or more than trueheal or full. I'm not sure what argument you're trying to present here, but the reason institute is great all around is because it is so defensive.
Can you really say that bonds is used like Trueheal or Full? Stupid argument is stupid, indeed.
Also Maligorn.
Also true. There's also a big difference between skillsets that focus around solo combat and ones that focus on group combat. Neither is fundamentally better than the other or more balance than the other but....
Yes, I would say bonds is used as much or more than trueheal or full. I'm not sure what argument you're trying to present here, but the reason institute is great all around is because it is so defensive.
Sorry, let me be more clear. I didn't mean frequency, I meant, do you use bonds as an "ohshit button" meant to protect yourself or is it a preparatory battlefield control skill? Bonds isn't defensive, it's utility.
Institute are something of an anomaly in that they were given great defence and great offense at the same time. Moondancers and Celestines have to choose whether they're being defensive or offensive, and each strategy suffers because they have that option. Ergo, people will argue that Moon can't have X offensive skill or tweak because they already have Full.
I'm not the one changing my parameters, you guys are the ones that are incorrectly assuming that Institute is a defensive class and that bonds is defensive. Moreover, your dishonest representation of SD healers as a defensive class speaks volumes.
Yeh. All of the damage kill bombs in general are dumb. Either you're maxed out and your group is set up with damage aoe's and so on to make use of them and they're crazy group clearer... or you're not and you'll never use the damn thing. It extra sucks to be a druid and have a one type bomb... that everyone has ~17-30% resistance to on top of the resistance systems mages have to worry about.
Yes, I would say bonds is used as much or more than trueheal or full. I'm not sure what argument you're trying to present here, but the reason institute is great all around is because it is so defensive.
Sorry, let me be more clear. I didn't mean frequency, I meant, do you use bonds as an "ohshit button" meant to protect yourself or is it a preparatory battlefield control skill? Bonds isn't defensive, it's utility.
Institute are something of an anomaly in that they were given great defence and great offense at the same time. Moondancers and Celestines have to choose whether they're being defensive or offensive, and each strategy suffers because they have that option. Ergo, people will argue that Moon can't have X offensive skill or tweak because they already have Full.
I'm not the one changing my parameters, you guys are the ones that are incorrectly assuming that Institute is a defensive class and that bonds is defensive. Moreover, your dishonest representation of SD healers as a defensive class speaks volumes.
Healing is defensive, almost exclusively. Arguing otherwise just makes you sound ridiculous.
Who should you listen to about SD healers? Maligorn or the single most successful SD in the past 5+ years?
Comments
But even if I were a fairweather fighter, you have no right to shame people over it (and yes, I'm aware that I've done it before). Just let people do their thing.
Yes, I totally agree that is some really horrible bullshit going on. I wish there were some name and shame. If you're playing the game this way, then you do need to stop. This is independent of the point I'm trying to make: that you're trying to encourage the North to suicide into the South more often for your idea of fun, as if things like Inferno or Bonds are going to change suddenly and have a real counter to them. (Yes, I really do think all meld bombs are stupid and discourage combat -- but especially Pollute and Inferno by virtue of being one damage type.)
Here's the thing: I agree with you. The passive fighting style of the North comes to a head at Ascension Trials and Ascension itself, and lo and behold, last year's Ascension was a big failure. But forcing everyone to do it your way isn't feasible -- and taking from Yarith's example in this situation isn't good either. A domoth absolve is not where you're going to learn to git gud. Basically anywhere else, sure, we need to jump into it more and damn the consequences. Moreover, we need to foster the people that are willing to lead into such situations and not tear them down -- it does lead to good things (see: Kelly's Ascension).
I guess what I'm trying to say, really, if I had to summarize my grievances and thoughts on the matter is that you need to be more patient. The North isn't going to change overnight -- and we're not going to force fairweathers or negative people to get to where we need to be, because this is ultimately a game.
You have to be on eq, have the target in the room to target gems. It's all an aggressive action so you will hit shields and timeslip for fixing them.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
I also, of course, believe this is a seriously imbalanced game. Looking from the broadest strokes, anyone would be able to tell you that in this game, offensive skillsets > defensive skillsets. This is further exacerbated by the alliances right now, which put all the offensive orgs in one pile and all the defensive orgs in another. Rather like a team of 5 Sorakas vs a team of 5 Jaxes. If you're spending power to heal yourself with Trueheal or Full, 95% of the time that means you're not going to be able to use that power to actually kill your opponent, since instakills and building to that instakill require power also. Would an alliance shakeup solve this problem? I actually think it would help quite a bit. Forget the arguments about hekoskeri, bonds (inconsequential with the glaring problem I've presented (and also makes victory much more sweet when you do overcome those obstacles)) -- this is what really needs a fix, and unfortunately might require a lot of overhauling (again).
Because the game is imbalanced, I don't expect people to get very invested in it like others have.
BEYOND THAT, I also agree that if your attitude is in the shitter, then you aren't going to succeed in a lot of things beyond Lusternia. But I'm not so presumptuous as to dictate how people are supposed to act.
And you should never be able to pull off shatterplex -> timequake in groups. It's extremely easy to catch, gust the person out and reset. Unlike night twist rubies poof and you can outpace two reserchers giving you rubies with highmagic/psionics. It also means the researchers are doing nothing to keep the person in the room when they have little in the way of doing so passively.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
This is not mutually exclusive with knowing there are problems with the game.
You've already proven your idea of 'balance' isn't actually balanced. Notice how you only ever complain about South skills being overpowered, even after your 'glaring' problems have actually been refuted, several times. I'm curious how Serenwilde and Celest succeeded as dominate powerhouses for quite some time despite being 'defensive' skillsets. I agree offensive skillsets are better, but only because it teaches you not to rely on powerful defensive skills. Not because the 'defensive' skillsets are somehow inferior to offensive ones. I think Institute > Illuminati and it's a defensive skillset. So much so that a @Yarith switched back to it because he was so squishy as a bard.
I'm better off being a tanky institute than not fighting at all. Also, when I went up as a bard the first time I went up to do domoths I achieved very little (not that I achieved much more as an institute but I at least got the conditions for a kill method). I think the defense skillsets which the north has in its guardians are the only thing which allow me to do much of anything in groups. This was true when I was Celestine, Moondancer, and Institute. I think it's also why we have an overflowing amount of guardians.
Edit: Healing Shadowdancers are an entirely offense orientated guild with healing stuck on. A little different when you become a lot less threatening because half your primary/secondary are devoted to keeping you alive. Best case senario, you have more people and half an offense. Worst case senario you have no way to get a kill and live forever.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
But I wouldn't call them a defensive class because they are very hybrid. Unlike Celestines and Moondancers, they have a lot of no-power passives to cure themselves, as well as no-power actives to cure themselves.
Institute are just great all around. But I don't think that makes my argument less valid.
Edit: I guess the most important thing is that healing yourself is great but, in the end, it doesn't achieve anything. Heals and cures don't synergize and staying alive to take 1 extra destro or cure off pox under aeon isn't doing leap and bounds when I could be hindering the person we're focusing.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
Also true. There's also a big difference between skillsets that focus around solo combat and ones that focus on group combat. Neither is fundamentally better than the other or more balance than the other but....
Institute are something of an anomaly in that they were given great defence and great offense at the same time. Moondancers and Celestines have to choose whether they're being defensive or offensive, and each strategy suffers because they have that option. Ergo, people will argue that Moon can't have X offensive skill or tweak because they already have Full.
I'm not the one changing my parameters, you guys are the ones that are incorrectly assuming that Institute is a defensive class and that bonds is defensive. Moreover, your dishonest representation of SD healers as a defensive class speaks volumes.