"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I sit on Daughter stacks because I don't like PVP, and she empowers them because IC, that's what she's defending. Now, we are all apparently heated. Let's stop being heated. We're all mature adults, this is a game.
Now, I'm going back to interrupting the status quo of contesting only when told I can.
@Ulalah I loved your post. You go girl. 'We've decided we are all taking these positions mmk' is so uncool it's not funny. I'm horribly disappointed to see it happen in SDs. Fight the power.
Now, I'm going back to interrupting the status quo of contesting only when told I can.
@Ulalah I'm pretty sure no one told you you couldn't contest, as a note. And if they did, they shouldn't have! Vitriol aside, please.
They didn't, you're right. I suffered from a knee-jerk reaction to it seeming like the current leadership was picking the new leadership; I have terrible memories of guilds in other IREs, where the GM appoints everyone.
I sit on Daughter stacks because I don't like PVP, and she empowers them because IC, that's what she's defending. Now, we are all apparently heated. Let's stop being heated. We're all mature adults, this is a game.
Now, I'm going back to interrupting the status quo of contesting only when told I can.
@Ulalah I loved your post. You go girl. 'We've decided we are all taking these positions mmk' is so uncool it's not funny. I'm horribly disappointed to see it happen in SDs. Fight the power.
My understanding (being an outsider and just hearing snippets here and there) was that it was a "let's reorganize ourselves since we're not in elected positions that best match what each of the people can/should be doing for the guild". It is absolutely and entirely up to the guild itself to vote as to whether or not any of the people contesting deserve the new position they are running for, or if someone else does. Haven't heard anything about any of them feeling entitled to a win, but more "Where we are now is not best for the guild and we need to change things up."
Which, to me, is fine. Like I said, it is also fine if anyone else wants to step up and offer themselves as a better choice!
Now, I'm going back to interrupting the status quo of contesting only when told I can.
@Ulalah I'm pretty sure no one told you you couldn't contest, as a note. And if they did, they shouldn't have! Vitriol aside, please.
The post I read was pretty damned presumptuous. 'I am taking this place, so and so is taking this one and we're bringing in this person for the third spot. Just shuffling our leadership peons, nothing to see here.'
What an awesome opportunity instead to say 'we're looking to reshape the leadership. I would like to take this role but I encourage any of you who have considered stepping up to do so now.' The implications were highly obvious.
I'm just saying, we were planning based on what we thought would work out best, judging from the number of active and experienced people in the guild at the moment - not once did we say "oh and btw no one else is allowed to contest." I'm proud of @Ulalah for stepping up, and if she gets the votes, then I'm mature enough to step back and wish her all the best.
@Lavinya, I'm not really appreciative of your view here, given you've hardly been active in the guild since you joined it and judging our actions without understanding them is not quite fair. But judge away by comparing us with other guilds, by all means; you're entitled to your opinion.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops And endless starless night Singing how the wind was lost Before an earthly flight
It did read presumptuously, but I think that's mostly Salome's character and way of speaking IC. No harm done, at any rate. We all work we together regardless of who goes where.
I'll just end by saying that yes, the initial post could have been better worded, but our (or my at least) planning was based on the fact that no one else had stepped forth before this, so as Xenthos said: we are trying to arrange things so that all positions are filled and well enacted.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops And endless starless night Singing how the wind was lost Before an earthly flight
It's not easy breaking into cliques. I was more active than some, it's only recently I decided to take a break.
I'm sure there are the best of intentions all round - but that doesn't change the fact that reading the post announcing what's going on doesn't read as presumptuous. And perhaps that is just the RP, and if so, why be upset that people interpret the presumptuous RP as presumptuous?
Eh, on the topic of position swapping, the SDs have been known to do that in an organised way, but it's a practice that's been around everywhere for a while now. When a position swap takes place, most of the time, the leadership isn't looking to shake things up - just keep the status quo. It usually happens when all three leaders are active, and are intending to do a bit of juggle here and there. Most of the time, they probably aren't thinking of "let's make this a chance to get newbies involved and contesting! Yay!" In fact, if a newbie contests during that, it's likely to be seen as an act of defiance or whatever - the more emotional or less rational could well react angrily.
To a leadership executing an organised position swap, it's just a routine decision, not a clique reinforcement of power. However, a leadership that is capable of executing an organised position swap is one that usually already has a deathgrip on power - or to put it more nicely, has a very collaborative group in said leadership positions. Effectively a clique - though not neccesarily OOC motivated or sourced, it's still a small, elite group of powerful individuals.
Contesting a position when it is actively filled is always daunting - and when the position is held by an individual who is friendly with the other positions, it is extremely difficult. This is probably something that leaderships should always try to bear in mind, if they want to encourage participation.
At the same time, it is important for us all, not just leaders, to recognize that an organised position swap in such circumstances will always come across as exclusivity, regardless of whether it is intended as such. There are surely cases where there are leaderships who do not want to let anyone new get in their foot - but it is important to remember that it isn't always the case everytime an organised swap is executed, and to jump to hasty conclusions about your own leadership can spoil your own experience and sour relations when there is no need to. Leaders definitely need to watch their tone and their words, and be more sensitive to how their actions are perceived, but it always helps for both sides to keep a perspective that doesn't just assume the worst about everyone.
-------------
About the raiding into absolves conversation.
Absolving is an activity that can be manipulated to be stacked entirely in the absolver's favour. Mostly by the absolute control of when it happens. The risk that comes with such control is that if the wrong decision is made, it can backfire, because every org is always able to take part in an absolve - there is no time when an org is locked out of contesting or helping an absolve. If you start an absolve thinking you have an absolute advantage in numbers, and turn out to be wrong, or have people log in onto your effort halfway through, you could well be facing a contest you didn't sign up for.
An absolve is also a purely PK activity for the ones who are being absolved. They gain nothing (beyond preventing a loss) in the case of a successful defend. In other words, only the joy of PK will motivate people to contest an absolve. Period. End of story. There really is nothing to motivate someone to contest an absolve unless they are there for the PK.
In this specific case, Aeden's team has nothing to lose - the domoths will flux in roughly a week's time. They could throw it away if they wanted - and just let the absolve take place. They lose nothing - they've already reaped the benefits of the domoth. Why bother going to PK, with a very real chance of losing, when there's nothing to lose, and less than nothing to gain? That's the mentality, I think, that people have. "We've won in Etherglom, we've kicked their ass for an hour, we've put up a shrine and put our mark. Let's go now, and let's not bother with the chance to lose."
That's perfectly fine as a mindset, by the way. I think like that plenty of times, myself. Well, the promise of PK will sometimes draw me in against my better sense, like going to Celestia after a Seren raid when I know there'll be more discretionaries and defenders, and a much higher chance of getting wiped. But the energy of the people in the group sometimes gets me to make choices and take risks I wouldn't otherwise go for. And one reason I still play this game despite not having much free time at all nowadays is because I have yet to regret a decision I have made at the urging of people who galvanize me into stupid choices.
Maybe one day I'll get to be part of a team challenging an absolve with a chance of success.
I love how I'm not tagged to defend myself in this conversation, and how I'm accused for being a bad person @Lavinya@Ulalah. That's upsetting, and quite impolite - And I don't appreciate your views on this either Lavinya, though a great person and character hasn't been as active because she's on a break.
I got up this morning, with the intention of writing a post saying 'we're doing this xyz.' Then, suddenly there was time to kill people, and I had class in one hour, and I didn't have time to write a masterpiece about reshaping the world through the eyes of the Coven. I had time to start the election and get things going. If it read presumptuously I guess that's your opinion of my character and my writing style, when really I was short on time. It's nice to know I'm still presumptuous even if I don't try to be. I even told Ulalah, that I was short on time and had to go, so? *shrug?*
Edit: Also, Ulalah, you said on an OOC clan 'I guess this is what I get for not reading posts,' and I interpreted that as you contested by mistake. I didn't say you weren't welcome to. I just assumed it was a mistake, because we had a set plan. But I honestly don't mind if you contest.
This arrangement was just a suggestion from Rancoura, that we decided to take up. No one said you aren't allowed to contest, we're just trying to fill the spots with who we have active at this time. If you feel like you can do a better job, you can contest, I certainly won't argue or stop you. In fact, if you feel like you want to get more of a foot hold in the guild active participation in these roles would be nice, instead of having to do them all the time, or figure out who will fit best with their skills at the time. In fact, I'd love it if someone else for once contested. I'm tired of doing jobs for others, and simply getting people assumed because I'm the Queen of Night that I am a pretentious hag, or because I was a tyrant non-FakeCL that I'm saying that you cannot do xyz.
And as Lerad has said, and I'd like to reiterate:
"At the same time, it is important for us all, not just leaders, to
recognize that an organised position swap in such circumstances will
always come across as exclusivity, regardless of whether it is intended
as such. There are surely cases where there are leaderships who do not
want to let anyone new get in their foot - but it is important to
remember that it isn't always the case everytime an organised swap is
executed, and to jump to hasty conclusions about your own leadership can
spoil your own experience and sour relations when there is no need to.
Leaders definitely need to watch their tone and their words, and be more
sensitive to how their actions are perceived, but it always helps for
both sides to keep a perspective that doesn't just assume the worst
about everyone."
I came from the perspective, when I wrote that post that this, as stated above was important. I was short on time, and I didn't have time to coddle people or their POVS.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
Maybe you weren't tagged because it was never meant as something that anyone needed to "defend", but was an off the cuff remark that was intended to vent something before everyone blew it out of proportion.
Maybe you weren't tagged because it was never meant as something that anyone needed to "defend", but was an off the cuff remark that was intended to vent something before everyone blew it out of proportion.
I need to be able to enter conversations, where some unsavory things are said about me and defend them. Thank you.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
Why should it even be considered unsavory? As much as public explosions can be an amusement for the greater community, I actually think it's amazing.
It's considered unsavory because I feel attacked for little to no reason about a matter of just rearranging things for the better of the guild. I never said don't contest, I never said anything to that proportion, and people change that and twist that around into making me OOC, look like a poopy person. And in turn, I feel poopy for not realising their perspectives, and I also feel poopy thinking that they could ever feel like I could cause them ill-will - Because what I was doing, as I thought, was just announcing a change, a suggestion from the leadership which is welcome to be contested. So you know. That's hurtful, and it's unsavory.
Edit: Language use.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
That it's public and OOC perhaps is, in that I could agree. People don't really separate well, and emotions run high when things are so emotionally invested. And easily spun out-of-proportion.
But spin that IG and you guys are going to have some fantastic drama, or at least could. Your counterparts in the MDs are going to have a rather boring election in our similar situation (if we can even muster the motivation for an election). I might have to roll an alt for the sheer delight of it.
What's OOC unsavory can be IC gold. Those are the things I like about you dirty Wyrdos.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
That it's public and OOC perhaps is, in that I could agree. People don't really separate well, and emotions run high when things are so emotionally invested. And easily spun out-of-proportion.
But spin that IG and you guys are going to have some fantastic drama, or at least could. Your counterparts in the MDs are going to have a rather boring election in our similar situation (if we can even muster the motivation for an election). I might have to roll an alt for the sheer delight of it.
What's OOC unsavory can be IC gold. Those are the things I like about you dirty Wyrdos.
I'm not really interested in drama. I'm interested in working with people, and staying united. Drama is usually planned, so that it's not horrible.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
Planning it can get extremely stale. Too much and you get our situation, where people never even contest at all unless the current leadership actually gives permission a la stepping down/whatever. Even when all parties involved know it would have been beneficial for everyone. EDIT: and that said leadership has been waiting to step down until they feel like anyone else even cares.
The happy ground is somewhere in the middle, IMHO. Embrace the unexpected. Then work with and plan what to do about it.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
It did read presumptuously, but I think that's mostly Salome's character and way of speaking IC.
Hey, nobody is attacking you, the player. Relax, take a step back, and enjoy the IC interactions this will open up.
Actually, they were. By accusing the leadership of simply being a select elite, they're holding me, Rancoura and whoever else responsible for their assumption of ill will and intent to be clique-y. Anyone would know that I try so very hard to include everyone. So I'm going to state my views and defend myself for something I do not believe is true, 100%. I just wanted to be able to state my perspective, which all others are allowed here to do. But I'm done now.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
FWIW I didn't even get that impression, @Salome, until you brought it up. Just emotions running high on all sides, as does happen in this game a lot. Even if the post somehow was out of line, or "just IC" and even if you're responsible for her actions, Salome isn't you. She can truly, actually be a total witch in every sense of the word (she's not, either) and still unite people per your desire, and you can still be just good to me and others who have ever dabbled in the SDs.
This could be a good thing. We choose how we react.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Cliques are hard to break into, especially when previous cliques have burned you.
Whether the criticism is fair or not, if people wanted change, they can go for it.
I'm welcome to change. Bring it.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
Comments
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
My understanding (being an outsider and just hearing snippets here and there) was that it was a "let's reorganize ourselves since we're not in elected positions that best match what each of the people can/should be doing for the guild". It is absolutely and entirely up to the guild itself to vote as to whether or not any of the people contesting deserve the new position they are running for, or if someone else does. Haven't heard anything about any of them feeling entitled to a win, but more "Where we are now is not best for the guild and we need to change things up."
Which, to me, is fine. Like I said, it is also fine if anyone else wants to step up and offer themselves as a better choice!
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
I'm sure there are the best of intentions all round - but that doesn't change the fact that reading the post announcing what's going on doesn't read as presumptuous. And perhaps that is just the RP, and if so, why be upset that people interpret the presumptuous RP as presumptuous?
I got up this morning, with the intention of writing a post saying 'we're doing this xyz.' Then, suddenly there was time to kill people, and I had class in one hour, and I didn't have time to write a masterpiece about reshaping the world through the eyes of the Coven. I had time to start the election and get things going. If it read presumptuously I guess that's your opinion of my character and my writing style, when really I was short on time. It's nice to know I'm still presumptuous even if I don't try to be. I even told Ulalah, that I was short on time and had to go, so? *shrug?*
Edit: Also, Ulalah, you said on an OOC clan 'I guess this is what I get for not reading posts,' and I interpreted that as you contested by mistake. I didn't say you weren't welcome to. I just assumed it was a mistake, because we had a set plan. But I honestly don't mind if you contest.
This arrangement was just a suggestion from Rancoura, that we decided to take up. No one said you aren't allowed to contest, we're just trying to fill the spots with who we have active at this time. If you feel like you can do a better job, you can contest, I certainly won't argue or stop you. In fact, if you feel like you want to get more of a foot hold in the guild active participation in these roles would be nice, instead of having to do them all the time, or figure out who will fit best with their skills at the time. In fact, I'd love it if someone else for once contested. I'm tired of doing jobs for others, and simply getting people assumed because I'm the Queen of Night that I am a pretentious hag, or because I was a tyrant non-FakeCL that I'm saying that you cannot do xyz.
And as Lerad has said, and I'd like to reiterate:
"At the same time, it is important for us all, not just leaders, to recognize that an organised position swap in such circumstances will always come across as exclusivity, regardless of whether it is intended as such. There are surely cases where there are leaderships who do not want to let anyone new get in their foot - but it is important to remember that it isn't always the case everytime an organised swap is executed, and to jump to hasty conclusions about your own leadership can spoil your own experience and sour relations when there is no need to. Leaders definitely need to watch their tone and their words, and be more sensitive to how their actions are perceived, but it always helps for both sides to keep a perspective that doesn't just assume the worst about everyone."
I came from the perspective, when I wrote that post that this, as stated above was important. I was short on time, and I didn't have time to coddle people or their POVS.
Edit: Language use.
What's OOC unsavory can be IC gold. Those are the things I like about you dirty Wyrdos.
The happy ground is somewhere in the middle, IMHO. Embrace the unexpected. Then work with and plan what to do about it.
This could be a good thing. We choose how we react.