I popped in after my birthday party last night. Found out "oh hey, glom's getting raided, play time!" and came up. We repelled once, proceeded to get the tar beaten out of us after. No melder definitely hurt, but thems the breaks. I had fun killing random org mobs after and just generally being a jerk though I've played both sides, we all do the same crap to each other because we got numbers and they don't. Team South decided to call it when our VA had to log, and team North pretty much had a lock down on their rooms. Next time I might start floating butterflies or something, but I had a good time. So thanks for raiding at my play times.
Guard raids are nice morale builders for the performing side, admittedly. I've seen it happen enough where I just shrug. Though... was that the Master Ravenwood stack? Well done.
@Candide, it's a little disheartening to see that, but in Lusty terms, it's not terribly malicious. There's probably a counter raid in the near future.
It can be incredibly distressing to log in to hearing org loyals dying/finding a large group of enemies running around your org killing things. And I can definitely empathise with feeling helpless/stressed about it. And it definitely can feel like they're targeting you due to knowing no one is around. I know that when I log in to seeing godrealm mobs getting slaughtered and I'm the only one online who can sound the alarm, I have a surprisingly strong instinctive physical/visceral reaction to it. So believe me, I do understand where you're coming from.
But:
1. They don't necessarily know that no one is around. A number of people on that log are people who (from my perspective) are usually pretty happy to engage in actual conflict when they can get it. They also like playing with their friends, who are online at the same time of them. It's unlikely that they were all lurking around waiting for the last Glomdoring non-newbie to sign off so they could start raiding.
2. All "sides" have people that do it. And by "it" I mean raid enemy orgs regardless of the number of defenders they can reasonably expect to turn out at that point in time. When you're new, it can be easy to only see when this is done to "you." You may not feel like that excuses it, but the fact remains that calling it out only when you see it happen to you is going to strike some people as hypocritical (even if you're too new/play at the wrong times to ever see that this does happen in the other direction) If you build up a reputation for being a proponent of fairness, you're more likely to be listened to.
3. There are ways to spin ic failure, mentally, that are more productive than simply declaring that behaviour is toxic and beyond the pale. You cleverly preserved yourself/spied on the enemy oppressors/are biding your time/going to use this to inspire your growth/they did you a favour by culling the weak from the forest/what have you. And if anyone is browbeating you for not defending against overwhelming odds instead of trying to offer encouragement/suggestions, that's pretty uncool of them.
4. Reach out to some of these people for combat tips (hindering people on a guard stack can sometimes turn a raid into a route), try to approach them ic and see if you can talk them into leaving/raiding elsewhere.
5. In the grand scheme of things, guards don't matter. There are a lot of things I enjoy about lusternia and a lot of things for me to get involved with. Dealing with raids doesn't always have to be one of them. This is a game. And my instinctive reaction to this sort of raid isn't rational, and just because it feels like the other side is out to get you, doesn't mean that they are. I sometimes find that it's easier to get over my physical reaction if I sit there for a minute, let myself feel upset, and then take a deep breath, remember that the other people are playing to have fun same as me, even if our playstyles don't always agree on "fun", and that the game would be super boring if raids didn't happen. And then I go and write a mean poem about them/get some inspiration to actually learn my skills better.
It would be really trolling if say.. they went out of their way to kill Ulthaed right before the New Moon. The point of guard stacks is that they fight off intruders, and intruders want to kill them so that they can intrude more. It's pretty easy to make a guard stack that can repel intruders who are engaging that stack 100% of the time. Guards are otherwise pretty crappy at doing anything, and if there was a functional upkeep cost, I'd advocate pretty hard for doing what Celest (afaik) has done, dismiss all guards and don't summon any new ones for any prime territory.
It'd be trolly and toxic if they came in and tracked down novices to kill them, or if after killing the guards they stood around (on Ethereal or something) for hours without end.
EDIT: Or hell, it could conceivably be toxic to repeatedly kill the Crow aspects over and over and camp their area. You're actually supposed to care about those. It's the job of the guards to... guard or die trying. Guards cost nothing and have no real ideological connection to any org I've seen (besides potentially centaurs for Serenguard), unlike things like aspects, avatars, Ladies/Daughters, fae, centaurs, etc. etc. etc.
EDIT: Or even taking the chance to chop totems or hit and run some totems.
I was more upset about this: Blahblah slew a shadow faeling ritualist that was loyal to you.
Leave the mobs for the Epic alone (and Juur)
Honestly, aspects, avatars, guards, etc they are meant to be killed in this type of conflict.
Does it suck? Yeah. Can you say that opposing team is jerks for doing it? Of course. It would definitely be nicer to see these things at times when there are more people to defend, same with revolts and other conflict drivers for what seems to be 90% of Glom but hey, right now it's just not happening.
Thankfully, most of these mobs come back to us or we can easily remake them.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
I don't think it's fair to say "everyone does it," but I do think it is fair to say there are people on both sides that do it. However, this type of behavior in large quantities is unhealthy for the game and conflict in the long term, but I don't think I'm going to convince anyone on the Northern side of the aisle to believe that based on my conversation last night.
Perhaps, however, you'd care more if you understood that it's bad for your organization specifically. The North had a remarkably unsuccessful Ascension, and I believe that is largely due to the fact that the type of PK they are experienced had no relevance in these events. Specifically, if turtling or zerg balls couldn't win, they were unsuccessful. You do not get the type of experience and teamwork necessary to win when this is routinely the type of "conflict" you engage in.
Considering the complaints about "unfairness" in the south, and more importantly the poor morale in the North, and the subsequent bitching at Estarra for "shaming" them, I would think this conclusion is fairly evident. Morale and spirit of the northern playerbase seemed important at the time, but there are numerous of those involved who criticize players like Synkarin who genuinely tell you need to get better as unfair and unhelpful.
So I don't get it. There was bitching about Ascension, there was bitching about being outplayed by the South, there was bitching about morale for being unable to win. Yet no-defender raids and unnecessary zerg balls are almost exclusively the type of "conflict," that the North has been participating in.
Maybe the South does it too, but it seems the South is more balanced in its approach to conflict, in that the South might raid your guards too when no one is around, but they'll also raid you when people are around and they'll also fight you when they're outnumbered. That is the missing piece to the "NO U" argument I get really tired of hearing.
Disclaimer: I don't mean to make generalizations, but apparently that's the nature of this conversation. Obviously there are Southerners bringing this on themselves, and there are ballsy Northerners diving into any fight. However, I do think there is a cultural distinction between the overall behavior of the two alliances.
Just because you don't see us raiding when there are more defenders than we could probably handle doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Just look at Avurekhos. There are many times where he just starts to raid Etherglom by himself. There have been times where we've been pushed out of Etherglom by a better force in a whole bunch of discretionaries and sometimes even with a meld and we decide to give it another go. Sometimes we win, sometimes we get wiped.
Also let's not ignore the facts and start accusing anyone of only being able to turtle/zerging. Honestly, most of the time that is exactly what the south does (bonds?). Ascension, from the very first challenge to the final ascension itself is all about turtling/zerging. Even events where it wasn't exactly about turtling/zerging, having more people online was a huge advantage. Nobody complained about unfairness. We accepted that there were problems in our side that need to be addressed and that this year's ascension wasn't ours to win.
We've already been over this. Good on you for picking fights that you probably can't win but you can't blame anyone for wanting to "zerg". Maybe not -everyone- does it, but most people from -both- sides do it and there is no point in trying to shame either side for it. It's just the nature of this game. And you seem to accept that this happens on both sides but instead of trying to shame your side into stopping with the behaviour you decide the problem lies with the north.
4
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Yeah... no org in the game has any real standing to complain about zerg/off-peak/pointless raids. It wasn't a month ago that Serenwilde was fighting these off constantly.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I mean, inevitably it was going to devolve into the predictable circle jerk of likes where you tell eachother how right you are and it's not really anything you guys did. It was numbers, and no one said it was unfair or the South was being lame (despite that being on forums), and this is all just part of the game, and you guys did it too. Selective amnesia or something.
Which is remarkable considering just how recent Ascension was where the North all but opted out of it. Excuses are easy.
At the same time, my experience is that trying to send people OOC tells telling them how horrible they are probably won't help either. Just ignore the raids and go do your own thing.
Hey look @Maligorn maybe you should read HELP ISSUES, that wasn't supposed to be chatted about since there is a current issue about that conversation and your petty metagame
(Market): Falmiis says, "Looking for someone to collect Versalean's corpse."
It's kind of like you guys said, "We lost Ascension, we're going to go out of our way to be jerkfaces." Not quite sure what this is about, but hey, more power to you. Note: I'm not just referencing this quote, you know a couple of other things that you've done. We've talked about at least one!
That said, guards die, it's not a huge deal. They'll get replaced. Don't worry about them. I'm more bothered by people who go out of their way to harass actual players because it makes them feel good about themselves (again, not referring specifically to Versalean, as it is quite possible he has done something-- that quote there is mostly because it flashed across my screen as I was reading this thread and it ties in nicely with various other actions that I have seen Certain Individuals pursuing).
Before the Matrix. Banks of clouds roil about here. There are 11 cylindrical chairs of transparent crystal here. Encircling the area, a wide crystalline table sits upon a line of balustrades here. A statue of Elostian stands here, memorialising His noble spirit. There are 23 Sentinel Deputy Commissars here. The graceful, translucent form of a bird of paradise dances in the air, the insubstantial image shifting through a constant stream of vivid colours. Radiating with an incandescent brilliance, the Matrix floats within the circular walkway, slowly turning and revealing flowering geometric patterns. Wind whipping through his wings, Fraesic Sunfar, Keeper of the Matrix is here, face upturned to the chill breeze. There are 4 storm-coloured greyhounds here. There are 10 Guardians of the Dodecahedron here. In the shape of an open palm, a metallic sigil lies here. You see exits leading northeast, southeast, southwest, and northwest. 7300h|100%, 8800m|100%, 10300e|100%, 10p ebksSi - joule You may order your beast again. <><><><>BEAST BALANCE<><><><> 7300h|100%, 8800m|100%, 10300e|100%, 10p ebksSi - joule You have recovered balance on all limbs. (1.051s) 7300h|100%, 8800m|100%, 10300e|100%, 10p exbksSi - joule Versalean has been given the kiss of death by an emaciated virgin. You see the death occur at a mound amongst the sand. (5203) From your knowledge, that room is in Astrosphere of Virgo.
If you're going to accuse me of something please get your facts straight
Are you saying that you did not say: (Market): Falmiis says, "Looking for someone to collect Versalean's corpse." ? I'm not sure what else you think I'm accusing you of; if you had been involved, you'd have just picked up his corpse. Really, you have a Medallion, you could have also just gone straight there and grabbed it yourself.
So apparently going out of my way to retrieve a novice's corpse and looking for someone who can immolate them so they didn't have to take a larger exp hit for praying is a way to be a "jerkface"?
So apparently going out of my way to retrieve a novice's corpse and looking for someone who can immolate them so they didn't have to take a larger exp hit for praying is a way to be a "jerkface"?
When you said "Collect," I read it as "Take so we can make yet another spiked head out of it." In this case, I apologize for assuming. You've not given me much cause recently to think better of you, but I shall take this into account next time.
So you're telling me this isn't toxic and just plain trolling?
2016/03/25 09:15:02 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:15:12 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:15:20 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:15:31 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:15:40 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:15:48 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:21:43 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:21:53 - Ioleyna slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:22:02 - Ioleyna slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:22:11 - Ioleyna slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:22:25 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:07 - Ioleyna slew a shadowlord widowrider that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:12 - Bleuu slew a shadowlord widowrider that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:19 - Gero slew a shadowlord widowrider that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:23 - Yarith slew a shadowlord widowrider that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:29 - Maligorn slew a shadowlord widowrider that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:38 - Avurekhos slew a dark nighthag that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:42 - Azula slew a dark nighthag that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:47 - Yarith slew a dark nighthag that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:52 - Avurekhos slew a dark nighthag that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:57 - Gero slew a dark nighthag that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:31:05 - Yarith slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:31:15 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:31:20 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:31:28 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:31:35 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 10:09:43 - Maligorn slew a shadow faeling ritualist that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 10:17:30 - Gwenelle slew Juur, the rowdy spriggan that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 10:27:25 - Gwenelle slew Brultk Thornblood, the outcast caretaker that was loyal to you.
There is absolutely no reason for them to kill almost every single guard we had when it was literally me Athree and Scanlan. The only reason you did it is because you knew nobody could stop you
Welcome to Lusternia. Go ask your commune about their recent (with a week or two irl) ago raids on Prime Celest to kill their guard stacks. Your home isn't the underdog, it isn't special, it isn't being picked on, and it gives as good or better than it gets.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
So you're telling me this isn't toxic and just plain trolling?
2016/03/25 09:15:02 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:15:12 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:15:20 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:15:31 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:15:40 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:15:48 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:21:43 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:21:53 - Ioleyna slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:22:02 - Ioleyna slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:22:11 - Ioleyna slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:22:25 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:07 - Ioleyna slew a shadowlord widowrider that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:12 - Bleuu slew a shadowlord widowrider that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:19 - Gero slew a shadowlord widowrider that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:23 - Yarith slew a shadowlord widowrider that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:29 - Maligorn slew a shadowlord widowrider that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:38 - Avurekhos slew a dark nighthag that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:42 - Azula slew a dark nighthag that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:47 - Yarith slew a dark nighthag that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:52 - Avurekhos slew a dark nighthag that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:30:57 - Gero slew a dark nighthag that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:31:05 - Yarith slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:31:15 - Avurekhos slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:31:20 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:31:28 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 09:31:35 - Gero slew an illithoid scourge that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 10:09:43 - Maligorn slew a shadow faeling ritualist that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 10:17:30 - Gwenelle slew Juur, the rowdy spriggan that was loyal to you. 2016/03/25 10:27:25 - Gwenelle slew Brultk Thornblood, the outcast caretaker that was loyal to you.
There is absolutely no reason for them to kill almost every single guard we had when it was literally me Athree and Scanlan. The only reason you did it is because you knew nobody could stop you
Welcome to Lusternia. Go ask your commune about their recent (with a week or two irl) ago raids on Prime Celest to kill their guard stacks. Your home isn't the underdog, it isn't special, it isn't being picked on, and it gives as good or better than it gets.
Yeah this was happening about a month ago when I started Gwenelle. Dem cycles
So apparently going out of my way to retrieve a novice's corpse and looking for someone who can immolate them so they didn't have to take a larger exp hit for praying is a way to be a "jerkface"?
When you said "Collect," I read it as "Take so we can make yet another spiked head out of it." In this case, I apologize for assuming. You've not given me much cause recently to think better of you, but I shall take this into account next time.
I thought he was looking for someone to grab it too, but gave him the benefit of the doubt and actually went to the Aetherplex, where he did give me Versalean's corpse to immolate. I also admit a pretty deep level of shock. Thanks though, Falmiis.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops And endless starless night Singing how the wind was lost Before an earthly flight
To be fair, I don't think off peak raids and avoiding conflict and zerg balls make you a jerk.
I think it makes you lame and a wuss about an internet game, possibly bad juju for future conflict experiences. Not a jerk though, you're generally all nice people I just know from the interwebs
The biggest problem with Glomdoring is the Wyrd. You wouldn't think that a forest that used to be so beautiful would have such a problem, but there it is. The Wyrd crosses our borders and then we have it amongst our own nation. So we are going to build a wall. We will build it on time, under budget and the Glomdoring will pay for it!
Comments
@Candide, it's a little disheartening to see that, but in Lusty terms, it's not terribly malicious. There's probably a counter raid in the near future.
It'd be trolly and toxic if they came in and tracked down novices to kill them, or if after killing the guards they stood around (on Ethereal or something) for hours without end.
Seriously, get over it. Both sides do it.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Also let's not ignore the facts and start accusing anyone of only being able to turtle/zerging. Honestly, most of the time that is exactly what the south does (bonds?). Ascension, from the very first challenge to the final ascension itself is all about turtling/zerging. Even events where it wasn't exactly about turtling/zerging, having more people online was a huge advantage. Nobody complained about unfairness. We accepted that there were problems in our side that need to be addressed and that this year's ascension wasn't ours to win.
We've already been over this. Good on you for picking fights that you probably can't win but you can't blame anyone for wanting to "zerg". Maybe not -everyone- does it, but most people from -both- sides do it and there is no point in trying to shame either side for it. It's just the nature of this game. And you seem to accept that this happens on both sides but instead of trying to shame your side into stopping with the behaviour you decide the problem lies with the north.
It's kind of like you guys said, "We lost Ascension, we're going to go out of our way to be jerkfaces." Not quite sure what this is about, but hey, more power to you. Note: I'm not just referencing this quote, you know a couple of other things that you've done. We've talked about at least one!
That said, guards die, it's not a huge deal. They'll get replaced. Don't worry about them. I'm more bothered by people who go out of their way to harass actual players because it makes them feel good about themselves (again, not referring specifically to Versalean, as it is quite possible he has done something-- that quote there is mostly because it flashed across my screen as I was reading this thread and it ties in nicely with various other actions that I have seen Certain Individuals pursuing).
Banks of clouds roil about here. There are 11 cylindrical chairs of transparent crystal here. Encircling the area, a
wide crystalline table sits upon a line of balustrades here. A statue of Elostian stands here, memorialising His noble
spirit. There are 23 Sentinel Deputy Commissars here. The graceful, translucent form of a bird of paradise dances in the
air, the insubstantial image shifting through a constant stream of vivid colours. Radiating with an incandescent
brilliance, the Matrix floats within the circular walkway, slowly turning and revealing flowering geometric patterns.
Wind whipping through his wings, Fraesic Sunfar, Keeper of the Matrix is here, face upturned to the chill breeze. There
are 4 storm-coloured greyhounds here. There are 10 Guardians of the Dodecahedron here. In the shape of an open palm, a
metallic sigil lies here.
You see exits leading northeast, southeast, southwest, and northwest.
7300h|100%, 8800m|100%, 10300e|100%, 10p ebksSi - joule
You may order your beast again.
<><><><>BEAST BALANCE<><><><>
7300h|100%, 8800m|100%, 10300e|100%, 10p ebksSi - joule
You have recovered balance on all limbs. (1.051s)
7300h|100%, 8800m|100%, 10300e|100%, 10p exbksSi - joule
Versalean has been given the kiss of death by an emaciated virgin.
You see the death occur at a mound amongst the sand. (5203)
From your knowledge, that room is in Astrosphere of Virgo.
If you're going to accuse me of something please get your facts straight
Are you saying that you did not say: (Market): Falmiis says, "Looking for someone to collect Versalean's corpse." ? I'm not sure what else you think I'm accusing you of; if you had been involved, you'd have just picked up his corpse. Really, you have a Medallion, you could have also just gone straight there and grabbed it yourself.
Welcome to Lusternia. Go ask your commune about their recent (with a week or two irl) ago raids on Prime Celest to kill their guard stacks. Your home isn't the underdog, it isn't special, it isn't being picked on, and it gives as good or better than it gets.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight