When you tell someone to go ahead and kill you a second time and you get an answer like
"You know I can't do that, then Avechna would get me!" that is -clearly- and -intentionally- abusing the Avenger system.
This has to be the most amusing thing I've read today, sorry.
I think you're missing the point of Avechna. It's not to keep you from being killed. At all. It's to keep you from being slain repeatedly without repercussion, AKA bullied. If someone slays you repeatedly, you can ask avechna to avenge you, and his minions will do so. Avechna won't keep you from dying, nor will it give you vengeance because Joe the ur'Griefer despises you and pays 20 people to kill you once each. Avechna doesn't meta like that.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
When you tell someone to go ahead and kill you a second time and you get an answer like
"You know I can't do that, then Avechna would get me!" that is -clearly- and -intentionally- abusing the Avenger system.
This has to be the most amusing thing I've read today, sorry.
I think you're missing the point of Avechna. It's not to keep you from being killed. At all. It's to keep you from being slain repeatedly without repercussion, AKA bullied. If someone slays you repeatedly, you can ask avechna to avenge you, and his minions will do so. Avechna won't keep you from dying, nor will it give you vengeance because Joe the ur'Griefer despises you and pays 20 people to kill you once each. Avechna doesn't meta like that.
ppssssttt this has been established already teehee!
----I personally think the best avenue would be that pk (on -prime- and/or not in enemy territory) should be approved of by both parties before it can happen.----
...I...what.
"Hey, Nyxxie-poo. Your citymate killed my commune mate so would you mind terribly if I came and killed you while you're busy picking herbs?"
Further...the idea of of a noncom being left alone is laughable at best. No offense, but unless you literally do nothing but sit in a manse and design/chat, you aren't a noncom. If you're picking herbs to sell to others or stock in a shop,you're directly or indirectly influencing combat in some way by being a supporting force for a future conflict.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I killed my own kid for saying I had child-bearing hips.
Having generally always been on the non-com end of the spectrum, I DO see where you're coming from - but complaining or trying to change the mechanic because you don't like dying is selfish. Everyone gets something different from the game. I used to run like crazy as soon as someone came near me, and I think that was perfectly legitimate RP for someone who had no interest in giving an enemy the satisfaction of her death. Or you can take a death, and rp at them and ask why they did that etc etc (I've done it!) and you may not get the answers you want, but thus is life.
I bought my gem of cloaking purely because two certain Celestians would attack me anytime I stepped off Prime. After running one day, I asked why these obviously competent fighters were getting their fun on little old me when I was doing no more than influencing in my divine's godrealm. He stated that I once attacked him, while defending Nil from him, and he wanted vengeance. I pointed out the number of kills I had on him (0) to those he had on me (a few) and that all I wanted to do was defend my home and build my own strength. You know what? He never jumped me again. I bet if I'd gotten on my high horse and tried to talk down to this guy who could easily kick my ass and called him names and 'stood up for myself' with any aggression, he probably would have come after me all the more.
If your character is finding her methods of standing up for herself aren't working, it's perfectly legitimate rp for her to go 'hmm, this isn't working, what is another way I can avoid conflict?' If it means deciding to be so very careful in what you say and do around anyone who can stomp you (even she doesn't really mean it) to avoid them attacking you, why not try it?
I killed my own kid for saying I had child-bearing hips.
Having generally always been on the non-com end of the spectrum, I DO see where you're coming from - but complaining or trying to change the mechanic because you don't like dying is selfish. Everyone gets something different from the game. I used to run like crazy as soon as someone came near me, and I think that was perfectly legitimate RP for someone who had no interest in giving an enemy the satisfaction of her death. Or you can take a death, and rp at them and ask why they did that etc etc (I've done it!) and you may not get the answers you want, but thus is life.
I bought my gem of cloaking purely because two certain Celestians would attack me anytime I stepped off Prime. After running one day, I asked why these obviously competent fighters were getting their fun on little old me when I was doing no more than influencing in my divine's godrealm. He stated that I once attacked him, while defending Nil from him, and he wanted vengeance. I pointed out the number of kills I had on him (0) to those he had on me (a few) and that all I wanted to do was defend my home and build my own strength. You know what? He never jumped me again. I bet if I'd gotten on my high horse and tried to talk down to this guy who could easily kick my ass and called him names and 'stood up for myself' with any aggression, he probably would have come after me all the more.
If your character is finding her methods of standing up for herself aren't working, it's perfectly legitimate rp for her to go 'hmm, this isn't working, what is another way I can avoid conflict?' If it means deciding to be so very careful in what you say and do around anyone who can stomp you (even she doesn't really mean it) to avoid them attacking you, why not try it?
This is an EXCELLENT point Lavinya thank you. maybe I do come off as being too aggressive right from the start and don't realize it. I do always try to be polite to begin with but when all I get are snarky or jerkish replies in response to that politeness, it's sometimes hard to keep up with being polite. I'll work on that though
Hmm. Well, the RP doesn't neccesarily always need to be before the fight, RP happening is the point. it's a little sad that Lusternia has no 'stun' mechanic that allows you to knock somebody out for a limited amount of time, thus allowing some more RP ways. And people melding the room would not even be on my list of thoughts. As for reinforcements, that's the attackers gamble, always. I see the problem, but I'm sure a solution can be found. Sometimes you want the element of surprise, that's fine. What I advocate is that the interaction as a whole should be more then "You have died". The specifics, I'm sure it can be worked on and acceptable solutions can be found.
edit: sometimes even things like "Die tainted spawn of nil" being shouted while someone charges at you would spice things up a bit. Or later looking at the corpse saying "that dead could've been avoided, if <reason>. I hope I don't have to make that move again (obviously more a goody line).
There's a wide gulf between, '...would spice things up...' and '...should be mandated...'.
You may be surprised to find out that there are some who don't like the talky parts, as in doesn't like them at all. Avenger doesn't protect what anyone says, and talking can often get you hit with an issue claiming harassment.
Whatever anyone can say about Avenger it does fairly well what it was intended to do, which is to say, reduce harassment while limiting constant admin intercession on those sorts of attacks. Mechanics like stun arguably do the opposite.
Nothing stops you from doing RP afterwards. You could write a letter. You could even write and publish a book. Where I do disagree is that RP is about words. For me RP is far more accomplishments over words. RP is simply having a role and following it, not who has the most lines (not that you said that), but it always annoys me when some NPC appears and people are trying to out "RP" each other.
edit:
Wanted to expand on something Lerad seemed to hint at. Additionally, there will be a free system for Lusternia. With that system, your org bix, and being a bit on your toes, it really should be fairly hard even if jumped for someone to kill you. Meaning, if you're a non-com and want to put even a bit of work in, you can laugh off many attempted jumpings.
@Steingrim I was never talking about mandating anything. All I did to do was pointing out how I thinks would feel better from my perspective. Mandating only gets you grumpy people or nothing else. My wish for my post was to say "hey, if you would go a bit out of your way to make things fun for me and I do the same for you, a simple "You have died" can turn into an awesome experience". That not many people will feel inclined to follow that, yep, aware of that. But if someones does, raves for them :-)
Hmm. Well, the RP doesn't neccesarily always need to be before the fight, RP happening is the point. it's a little sad that Lusternia has no 'stun' mechanic that allows you to knock somebody out for a limited amount of time, thus allowing some more RP ways. And people melding the room would not even be on my list of thoughts. As for reinforcements, that's the attackers gamble, always. I see the problem, but I'm sure a solution can be found. Sometimes you want the element of surprise, that's fine. What I advocate is that the interaction as a whole should be more then "You have died". The specifics, I'm sure it can be worked on and acceptable solutions can be found.
edit: sometimes even things like "Die tainted spawn of nil" being shouted while someone charges at you would spice things up a bit. Or later looking at the corpse saying "that dead could've been avoided, if <reason>. I hope I don't have to make that move again (obviously more a goody line).
There's a wide gulf between, '...would spice things up...' and '...should be mandated...'.
You may be surprised to find out that there are some who don't like the talky parts, as in doesn't like them at all. Avenger doesn't protect what anyone says, and talking can often get you hit with an issue claiming harassment.
Whatever anyone can say about Avenger it does fairly well what it was intended to do, which is to say, reduce harassment while limiting constant admin intercession on those sorts of attacks. Mechanics like stun arguably do the opposite.
Nothing stops you from doing RP afterwards. You could write a letter. You could even write and publish a book. Where I do disagree is that RP is about words. For me RP is far more accomplishments over words. RP is simply having a role and following it, not who has the most lines (not that you said that), but it always annoys me when some NPC appears and people are trying to out "RP" each other.
edit:
Wanted to expand on something Lerad seemed to hint at. Additionally, there will be a free system for Lusternia. With that system, your org bix, and being a bit on your toes, it really should be fairly hard even if jumped for someone to kill you. Meaning, if you're a non-com and want to put even a bit of work in, you can laugh off many attempted jumpings.
@Steingrim I was never talking about mandating anything. All I did to do was pointing out how I thinks would feel better from my perspective. Mandating only gets you grumpy people or nothing else. My wish for my post was to say "hey, if you would go a bit out of your way to make things fun for me and I do the same for you, a simple "You have died" can turn into an awesome experience". That not many people will feel inclined to follow that, yep, aware of that. But if someones does, raves for them :-)
My point is more that anything you do gets you grumpy people. If you talk to them some will get more mad, if you don't others will. If you try to RP some will, others will not. Let's assume for a moment there are two types of players. Ones who get pissed and others who do not. The ones who do not don't require interaction (though may want it) and the ones who do get mad often are too upset to deal well with the interaction. Hence, my suggestion for RP after.
Consider this. You can't even send players ooc messages saying "{{ooc}} I'd like to RP out that attack earlier.", without some taking offense you broke their immersion.
Perhaps one of the safest ways would be to draft and send a letter. At least they'll see the effort being made.
Hmm. Well, the RP doesn't neccesarily always need to be before the fight, RP happening is the point. it's a little sad that Lusternia has no 'stun' mechanic that allows you to knock somebody out for a limited amount of time, thus allowing some more RP ways. And people melding the room would not even be on my list of thoughts. As for reinforcements, that's the attackers gamble, always. I see the problem, but I'm sure a solution can be found. Sometimes you want the element of surprise, that's fine. What I advocate is that the interaction as a whole should be more then "You have died". The specifics, I'm sure it can be worked on and acceptable solutions can be found.
edit: sometimes even things like "Die tainted spawn of nil" being shouted while someone charges at you would spice things up a bit. Or later looking at the corpse saying "that dead could've been avoided, if <reason>. I hope I don't have to make that move again (obviously more a goody line).
There's a wide gulf between, '...would spice things up...' and '...should be mandated...'.
You may be surprised to find out that there are some who don't like the talky parts, as in doesn't like them at all. Avenger doesn't protect what anyone says, and talking can often get you hit with an issue claiming harassment.
Whatever anyone can say about Avenger it does fairly well what it was intended to do, which is to say, reduce harassment while limiting constant admin intercession on those sorts of attacks. Mechanics like stun arguably do the opposite.
Nothing stops you from doing RP afterwards. You could write a letter. You could even write and publish a book. Where I do disagree is that RP is about words. For me RP is far more accomplishments over words. RP is simply having a role and following it, not who has the most lines (not that you said that), but it always annoys me when some NPC appears and people are trying to out "RP" each other.
edit:
Wanted to expand on something Lerad seemed to hint at. Additionally, there will be a free system for Lusternia. With that system, your org bix, and being a bit on your toes, it really should be fairly hard even if jumped for someone to kill you. Meaning, if you're a non-com and want to put even a bit of work in, you can laugh off many attempted jumpings.
@Steingrim I was never talking about mandating anything. All I did to do was pointing out how I thinks would feel better from my perspective. Mandating only gets you grumpy people or nothing else. My wish for my post was to say "hey, if you would go a bit out of your way to make things fun for me and I do the same for you, a simple "You have died" can turn into an awesome experience". That not many people will feel inclined to follow that, yep, aware of that. But if someones does, raves for them :-)
My point is more that anything you do gets you grumpy people. If you talk to them some will get more mad, if you don't others will. If you try to RP some will, others will not. Let's assume for a moment there are two types of players. Ones who get pissed and others who do not. The ones who do not don't require interaction (though may want it) and the ones who do get mad often are too upset to deal well with the interaction. Hence, my suggestion for RP after.
Consider this. You can't even send players ooc messages saying "{{ooc}} I'd like to RP out that attack earlier.", without some taking offense you broke their immersion.
Perhaps one of the safest ways would be to draft and send a letter. At least they'll see the effort being made.
Hmm. I do see your points, yes. My sight on this might be a little one sided, but being jumped without any RP whatsoever will certainly not get anyone a letter from me instantiating RP. I'll likely not be very happy at being jumped and my chars impression of the attacking char likely won't increase at all, which will, for my part lead to RP with people within my org but not include the attacker. That's fine by me, but I do find it a little sad to be honest, because there's a lot of potential besides just bashing people's heads in.
I can understand your concerns though, but I likely would still be trying in your stead. I think that you notice pretty quickly if someone is in the mood to follow up with some RP or not.
Comments
I think you're missing the point of Avechna. It's not to keep you from being killed. At all. It's to keep you from being slain repeatedly without repercussion, AKA bullied. If someone slays you repeatedly, you can ask avechna to avenge you, and his minions will do so. Avechna won't keep you from dying, nor will it give you vengeance because Joe the ur'Griefer despises you and pays 20 people to kill you once each. Avechna doesn't meta like that.
...I...what.
"Hey, Nyxxie-poo. Your citymate killed my commune mate so would you mind terribly if I came and killed you while you're busy picking herbs?"
Further...the idea of of a noncom being left alone is laughable at best. No offense, but unless you literally do nothing but sit in a manse and design/chat, you aren't a noncom. If you're picking herbs to sell to others or stock in a shop,you're directly or indirectly influencing combat in some way by being a supporting force for a future conflict.
Having generally always been on the non-com end of the spectrum, I DO see where you're coming from - but complaining or trying to change the mechanic because you don't like dying is selfish. Everyone gets something different from the game. I used to run like crazy as soon as someone came near me, and I think that was perfectly legitimate RP for someone who had no interest in giving an enemy the satisfaction of her death. Or you can take a death, and rp at them and ask why they did that etc etc (I've done it!) and you may not get the answers you want, but thus is life.
I bought my gem of cloaking purely because two certain Celestians would attack me anytime I stepped off Prime. After running one day, I asked why these obviously competent fighters were getting their fun on little old me when I was doing no more than influencing in my divine's godrealm. He stated that I once attacked him, while defending Nil from him, and he wanted vengeance. I pointed out the number of kills I had on him (0) to those he had on me (a few) and that all I wanted to do was defend my home and build my own strength. You know what? He never jumped me again. I bet if I'd gotten on my high horse and tried to talk down to this guy who could easily kick my ass and called him names and 'stood up for myself' with any aggression, he probably would have come after me all the more.
If your character is finding her methods of standing up for herself aren't working, it's perfectly legitimate rp for her to go 'hmm, this isn't working, what is another way I can avoid conflict?' If it means deciding to be so very careful in what you say and do around anyone who can stomp you (even she doesn't really mean it) to avoid them attacking you, why not try it?
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
@Steingrim I was never talking about mandating anything. All I did to do was pointing out how I thinks would feel better from my perspective. Mandating only gets you grumpy people or nothing else. My wish for my post was to say "hey, if you would go a bit out of your way to make things fun for me and I do the same for you, a simple "You have died" can turn into an awesome experience". That not many people will feel inclined to follow that, yep, aware of that. But if someones does, raves for them :-)
Consider this. You can't even send players ooc messages saying "{{ooc}} I'd like to RP out that attack earlier.", without some taking offense you broke their immersion.
Perhaps one of the safest ways would be to draft and send a letter. At least they'll see the effort being made.
I can understand your concerns though, but I likely would still be trying in your stead. I think that you notice pretty quickly if someone is in the mood to follow up with some RP or not.