Overhaul Artifacts

Daganev

Is there a single help file that describes all the overhaul artifacts?

I'm trying to decide if getting the 3/13 health artifact is worth it, or if the 2/12 is good enough.

Also a bit disappointed, that the new artifacts give me less for more credits.  I lost level 2 regen runes, and the 10% bonus to health/mana/ego, and need to figure out what to replace them with...

How much is that one extra health bump going to give me? 

Also, do we have any idea what more ego does for influencing other than letting you survive the battle longer?

Ayisdra

Each level of health is 500. so 3/13 would give you 1500 more health and 2/12 would give you 1000. What is 'good enough' depends on you. if having that extra 500 health is something that matters or it means it is one less thing you have to maintain because you have the artifact, then perhaps it is worth it.

Lerad

According to the numbers in the spreadsheet in the h/m/e thread:

Minimum H/M/E: 300

Bonus/malus ranges from -10 to 10 (13 with artifacts)

We’re currently playing with formulas but the current one results as follows:

• Level 25, Bonus 3 = 2,050

• Level 50, Bonus 5 = 4,300

• Level 100, Bonus 5 = 8,300

• Level 100, Bonus 10 = 10,800

• Level 100, Bonus 13 = 12,300 [MAX w/artifacts]

This means, each level above 10 gives 500 health. The 2/12 arti will give you 11800 health (assuming you have already filled up 10/10 before getting the artie)

More ego at the moment allows you to survive ego battles longer, is all, I think.

Daganev

If I put a health rune on my helmet, and then become the guild champion, do I lose the effects of either the health rune or the champion perks?

Daganev

Also, which races have perks that are worth the 1,000 credits to get the demigod perk if I'm level 96?

Lerad

Currently, the Orclach resistances look good for bashing. But I haven't bashed enough to compare with the other races. Lobo's regen would be good if you're not a psymet or harmony (or a class with access to high regen), because 6 levels of regen with high health buffs and a high level will translate to more heal for buck

None of the perks really make a very noticeable difference in bashing and influencing - there is no real need to "choose" anymore, you won't be bashing slower by much compared to someone of a different race. The perks are just that, perks, nice to have, but it won't slow you down much to bash or influence as any race.

PK-wise, I'm eyeing pursuit a lot. Alternatively, slip/roll can be decent if you're not an acrobat. Igasho carry needs the demi+ version to really shine, unfortunately. Keph is fairly sweet for non warriors, but for warriors, it's only really good to save you the trouble of buying fieldplate. The gold saved probably isn't quite worth it to go Keph for. 

Kalliste

Love hearing these in-depth analyses from people in the know. @Lerad, I'm waiting to hear what the best race is for Celestines and Tahtetso

Tarkenton

Fink: Bonus to performance abilities didn't seem to make that large of a difference.  Over time, could see it, but it seemed to be the difference of +/- 1 influence with and without it up.  Demi+ fink, on a turret, seemed pretty good.  Especially combined with a level three crit rune, kiwi punch, and kirigami.  Need to see if I can fish any more crit bonuses up.

Tae'dae: Need to test bearhug without having a bunch of buffs up, or alternatively pay attention to what buffs I have up.  Overall, for monk or warrior, seems like we might see quite a few bearhug deaths out there since hey, doesn't cost any power.  It's basically Stag's gore without a power cost, and gives collapsed lung instead of impaling.

Daganev

Tarkenton said:

Fink: Bonus to performance abilities didn't seem to make that large of a difference.  Over time, could see it, but it seemed to be the difference of +/- 1 influence with and without it up.  Demi+ fink, on a turret, seemed pretty good.  Especially combined with a level three crit rune, kiwi punch, and kirigami.  Need to see if I can fish any more crit bonuses up.

Tae'dae: Need to test bearhug without having a bunch of buffs up, or alternatively pay attention to what buffs I have up.  Overall, for monk or warrior, seems like we might see quite a few bearhug deaths out there since hey, doesn't cost any power.  It's basically Stag's gore without a power cost, and gives collapsed lung instead of impaling.

How many seconds was the balance on the bearhug?  Do you think its going to get nerfed?  Ah, the gore is only for demi+ not Demi.

Shedrin

Tarkenton said:

and gives collapsed lung instead of impaling.

CollapsedLung is too strong with aeon. It's a regen cure that stops smoking. That should probably be hotfixed.

Kalliste

Shedrin said:

Tarkenton said:

and gives collapsed lung instead of impaling.

CollapsedLung is too strong with aeon. It's a regen cure that stops smoking. That should probably be hotfixed.

I was a bit surprised that they didn't implement an affliction that had an overhaul cure... the overhaul needs to be overhauled.

Elanorwen

Shedrin said:

Tarkenton said:

and gives collapsed lung instead of impaling.

CollapsedLung is too strong with aeon. It's a regen cure that stops smoking. That should probably be hotfixed.

Yeah, I thought the affliction was going to go in after the physical aff overhaul was done rather than before. As it stands, this is a bit bonkers.

Tarkenton

Psh, that's what quicksilver is for!

But, truth be told, yeah, that'll need to be hot fixed or something for a while.  I'd recommend just changing it to severed spine (I kid, I kid) or crushed chest.

Balance time appears to be a base of 4s, with monk buffs (acrobatics) I managed to get it down to 3.5s.  Damage is static it looks like, it hits me for 1069/11300hp with the following bodyscan

**************************[ Bodyscan - Buffs Brief ]***************************

Topic          Mod 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Universal      2

Blunt          5

Cutting        3

Magical        2

Fire           2

Cold           2

Poison         2

Asphyxiation   2

Electricity    2

Psychic        2

Excorable      2

Divinus        2

*******************************************************************************

***********************[ Bodyscan - Resistances Brief ]************************

Topic          Mod 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Universal      2

Blunt          5

Cutting        5

Magical        4

Fire           3

Cold           3

Poison         5

Asphyxiation   4

Electricity    3

Psychic        2

Excorable      5

Divinus        4

*******************************************************************************

As for nerfed, eh.  I'd say the damage is a bit low on it to necessitate nerfing the damage.  The affliction absolutely needs to change, for the aforementioned reasons.  Though a part of me wants to go ganking with a shadowdancer to give aeon soon as I bearhug, and then hit a slit throat form after.  Hilarity.

Elanorwen

Tarkenton said:

Psh, that's what quicksilver is for!

But, truth be told, yeah, that'll need to be hot fixed or something for a while.  I'd recommend just changing it to severed spine (I kid, I kid) or crushed chest.

Balance time appears to be a base of 4s, with monk buffs (acrobatics) I managed to get it down to 3.5s.  Damage is static it looks like, it hits me for 1069/11300hp with the following bodyscan

As for nerfed, eh.  I'd say the damage is a bit low on it to necessitate nerfing the damage.  The affliction absolutely needs to change, for the aforementioned reasons.  Though a part of me wants to go ganking with a shadowdancer to give aeon soon as I bearhug, and then hit a slit throat form after.  Hilarity.

From what I heard on envoys, damage is low presently and they're looking to have it increased a bit. The collapsedlung thing definitely will need a looking at in its present incarnation. I'd personally assume there was something lost in translation between coding team and design team because I'm pretty sure it wasn't supposed to give an affliction until physicals were overhauled. Beyond that... it is an active skill that will supposedly be on par with a staffcast which makes me a bit wary as we're already creeping into a place where people can just spam damage attacks again... and apparently they can changeling to tae'dae to get the damage kill potential of a mage.

Baelor

I'll clarify it all now before people get misconceptions on tidbits.

Bearhug previously did such minor damage, when the overhaul came around it was an opportunity to give it value. At the time of design (and bearhug v2.0's coding) we were going with a system that did away with stats entirely. When people noted in testing how weak they were, this was bumped up from 12 in Int/Str/Cha to 16, giving everything that previously had a stat modifer an extra multiplier.

Bearhug was designed to be equal to a staffcast without any stat modifiers, so at the time it would have done comparable damage. Since the change to stats, bearhug is somewhat lacking, and will be adjusted.

There's also a tooltip issue, that will be fixed in the HELP file today, it's actually Blunt/Asphyxiation damage in a 50/50 split, as opposed to pure asphyxiation.

Collapsed lung was a placeholder affliction until the new Knight overhaul was finished, and whatever the next heavy chest affliction is will take its spot. Collapsed lung certainly isn't a permanent solution, ideally I'd envisioned the Knight overhaul would be done first, but for a short term it's something we're content with.

Bearhug will retain it's 4.0 speed but is likely going to get an increase in damage, looking at how base levels of health have increased (to the point where in the more extreme cases they've doubled) and damage has lowered across the board, there isn't the concern that we're going back to the days of damage killing. Even staffcasts aren't comparable now to the ones players did at 20+ intellect before.

Shedrin

Baelor said:

Collapsed lung was a placeholder affliction until the new Knight overhaul was finished, and whatever the next heavy chest affliction is will take its spot. Collapsed lung certainly isn't a permanent solution, ideally I'd envisioned the Knight overhaul would be done first, but for a short term it's something we're content with.

This should really be changed. It's completely broken with anyone who can do aeon.

Tarkenton

Shedrin.  Instead of complaining about a potential problem, why don't we go on a rampage and make everyone else complain about the problem.  It's the perfect solution.

Kalliste

I really want to see a group of ten or so tae'dae bearhug someone to death. 

Shedrin

Tarkenton said:

Shedrin.  Instead of complaining about a potential problem, why don't we go on a rampage and make everyone else complain about the problem.  It's the perfect solution.

Brb going bear.

Baelor

The problem is the alternative heavy affliction is to give Tae'dae a stun on demand, and that's something I'm not comfortable with, or removing the affliction and thus the requirement from the instakill entirely, and I'm not keen on having a no requirement gore alternative.

I'm thoroughly not above changing it, but currently the alternative solutions are akin to creating one problem to resolve another.


The issue of collapsed lungs + aeon, isn't going to end either if the Tae'dae racial is changed either. There are two knight specs with the potential to deliver it with faster attacks, one of which only has two chest jab afflictions in total, and can apply it rather reliably.

Tarkenton

And monks. I can collapse lung with a kick every other form once I hit four momentum. So it's not like this interaction was impossible before taedae. It just makes it more accessible. And TIL collapsed lung stops smoking. Time to whip up some new forms.

Shedrin

Baelor said:

The problem is the alternative heavy affliction is to give Tae'dae a stun on demand, and that's something I'm not comfortable with, or removing the affliction and thus the requirement from the instakill entirely, and I'm not keen on having a no requirement gore alternative.

I'm thoroughly not above changing it, but currently the alternative solutions are akin to creating one problem to resolve another.


The issue of collapsed lungs + aeon, isn't going to end either if the Tae'dae racial is changed either. There are two knight specs with the potential to deliver it with faster attacks, one of which only has two chest jab afflictions in total, and can apply it rather reliably.

Warriors also have to bypass stance/parry/rebounding, have a wound requirement and RNG involved, and also most Warriors don't have access to aeon. Second, they don't tend to have significant passives contributing to their offense while they spam Bearhug. They may be overpowered as well (a side effect of switching aeon to a smoke cure), though Sentinels have always been pretty empty, and Waning/Twist are pretty awkward to use for a Warrior so they don't see much use.

The biggest abusers would be any guild that naturally uses aeon as part of their offense. For example, as an Institute it would be exceedingly easy for me to use Bearhug on an aeonfield tic, along with having my beast spit slickness to delay even further. I'm pretty sure @Raeri was using Bearhug to do huge hindering following a PrincessFarewell. And because of the delay from aeon, you can regain balance before they cure out and do it all again to keep prolonging the aeon.

That said, here are some suggestions for replacement afflictions:
 - Snapped rib
 - Crushed chest
 - broken chest
 - paralysis (iffy)
 
I think those afflictions don't stun by themselves, but from an added benefit of the delivery mechanism if they do, might be mistaken.

Shuyin

Piercelung paralysis or break chest is my vote. No stun.

Gaudi bear squad hooo. Might need to go back illu.

Raeri

This'll change once the physical aff overhaul goes through anyway, since ice is apply cure? I was under the impression that was just about complete. If we're replacing it with something in the interim, it'd be nice if it was a delayed cure, else it'll never get seen (:(). That said, why don't we just rework aeon.

Qistrel

The first thing I thought was: Tae'dae are fine, Aeon is overpowered, nerf Aeon.

Ssaliss

Well... Shadowdance Choke = Aeon. We removed Choke. Let's remove Aeon.

Perfectly logical. At least to me

Elanorwen

Ssaliss said:

Well... Shadowdance Choke = Aeon. We removed Choke. Let's remove Aeon.

Perfectly logical. At least to me

Sure thing. You want to redo all of Hallifax while you're at it too?

Qistrel

Shedrin said we could.

Viynain

Don't forget sap.

Maligorn

There's literally a skillset called Aeonics in the game. Pls2be no removing aeon. Bye Felicia to sap, though.

Cyndarin

I support removing aeon just to watch certain members of Hallifax spiral into a meltdown over how much the admin/envoys hate them and how unfair the game is. 

+1