Raves to @Zilias for being an awesome new Shee-Slaugh!
And raves to Lhiannan (and whatever admin decided to join us) for showing up and being amazing. It makes family events even more wonderful when we get surprise visits. :x
All of the adjacent summon skills were nerfed, it was a Shadowdancer report, iirc. It's... bugged for rad right now though.
EDIT: but not bugged in a way that ameliorates the penalty, it makes it worse than it should be, heh.
I thought that bug got fixed to where it doesn't stack off-equilib anymore. Here:
Bug #10132 Resolution: The EQ loss on failed rads (with staffsling) appears to be intentional, probably to prevent spamming in order to instant-move a target when s/he enters an adjacent room, and will thus remain. However, the erroneous stacking of the eq loss has been fixed.
I'd also like to point out that I never mentioned that the eq loss on failed rads due to target not being present is not intentional, but eh... anyway.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
learn to shield, make sure random chance is random, end of discussion
If you remove maggot/rip, it makes butterfly pointless to use in any situation ever. Even if you turn down the damage to 85-90% max health, it's going to be pointless. Noone is going to spam butterfly for a chance to hit the opponent with plague affs, pits or astro spheres.
This reasoning as to a counter is bugging me. In every combat scenario your shield is going to come down at some point. Whether you decide to put a defense up, try a rad, try to summon, etc. It is how we get rads on others. You can't think it is plausible that someone will be shielded 100% of the time, it's why we all spam LoS. Abilities. Beckoners also wait and hope to get someone adjacent to them, but we have a defense for that, block, which won't up and disappear from doing an action.
I really don't want to continue this discussion (okay, I lie, I actually do) but just for the record, the existence of truehealing beside maggot/rip (or if you want to look at it the other way, the existence of maggot/rip beside truehealing) does form a balancing factor. Not in a fun way, because both trueheal and no-requirement instantkills are not fun (and there are plenty other abilities that are also "not fun" in the game along the same lines as well), but in this specific case as long as the two effects have an equal chance of manifesting for each cast, then it is balanced both mechanically and on theory - not only does the ability not guarantee the effect being manifested, there is a chance of a negative effect (healing the target you're trying to kill). Even putting aside the fact of the randomness making the ability a fool's gamble at best, the concept of imposing the possibility of a "backfire" in abilities have always been accepted as a valid way of balancing it - not simply to regulate the motivation to use the ability, but also to moderate the actual impact of the ability.
In the quote Sidd is referring explicitly to the construct version of butterfly, which I don't even consider when I think of the ability, because any valid argument about butterfly being of any use has to be premeditated on it being spammable. The closest plausible situation where the construct version has an effect would be on domoth fights, and with very specific circumstances - that the side being butterflied has no one with ready access to the bubble (ie the domoth will be decided within the time it would take for a person to get back to the bubble), as well as the fight itself being decided by the presence or absence of a single person (whoever is being butterflied). In that scenario, getting removed from the bubble (killed or maggoted) would make the gamble of using a once-only butterfly have an actual impact. In that scenario, it is unfair that one side has access to an ability that WILL actually lead to the win or loss of the fight, from just a single use - in that case, the construct version of butterfly has enough impact that it becomes possibly unbalancing to allow it to be used by every member of an org.
In the more often-seen cases, a one-off removal of a person from a fight is next to useless because unless you can continually use the ability with a chance of removing that person each time, they will be back before you can solidify an advantage that will influence the outcome of the contest. The debate, if any exists, has to be centered around those who have trans paradigmatics, because the construct butterfly is literally more useless than normal butterfly, if such a thing can be conceived (yes, very surprising, I know).
learn to shield, make sure random chance is random, end of discussion
If you remove maggot/rip, it makes butterfly pointless to use in any situation ever. Even if you turn down the damage to 85-90% max health, it's going to be pointless. Noone is going to spam butterfly for a chance to hit the opponent with plague affs, pits or astro spheres.
This reasoning as to a counter is bugging me. In every combat scenario your shield is going to come down at some point. Whether you decide to put a defense up, try a rad, try to summon, etc. It is how we get rads on others. You can't think it is plausible that someone will be shielded 100% of the time, it's why we all spam LoS. Abilities. Beckoners also wait and hope to get someone adjacent to them, but we have a defense for that, block, which won't up and disappear from doing an action.
Yes, I do think it's reasonable and plausible for someone to stay shielded 100% of the time they are in a stand off position(because that's the only time butterfly is going to be used).
I also think it's reasonable that if you're trying to rad/beckon/wisp/staffcasting someone, that you yourself are open up to being attacked as well, either by rad/beckon/wisps or things like staffcasts and butterfly. You don't get to make attacks without having some risk.
If you want to put a defense up, then you have options to back up away from the group and put up your defense, or even fly/climb trees and put it up as well. Yes there is a chance that you'll be hit between moving back and reshielding, but you can definitely minimize the risk.
Rave for the domoth claim of Harmony. Started as an opportunistic attempt in the very last moment. Tredian and me piloting all the way to Dramube. Illidaen and Steingrim came upon us. At one point we had to return back to prime, dry of power and grab another ship and travel in space again and shoot down a blocking ship. We added Avurekhos, and Savea, Tacita also came. In the end we managed to grab it with both sides adding a few members, being close in points and ten minutes left to deadline. We had a druid meld but overall no side was particularly overwhelming.
Rave for butterfly being the face of what is overpowered about paradigmatics. Certainly more amusing than Reality.
Don't think we've forgotten reality. Almost got stuck due to it on Frosticia one time. (Hint, if a location is "You can't ascend from heres", it should most certainly not be a location that you can get thrown to by long distance movement skills like reality, starleaper, etc) Still, reality seems like a doze compared to some of the other illuminati sorcery floating around nowadays.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Rave for butterfly being the face of what is overpowered about paradigmatics. Certainly more amusing than Reality.
Don't think we've forgotten reality. Almost got stuck due to it on Frosticia one time. (Hint, if a location is "You can't ascend from heres", it should most certainly not be a location that you can get thrown to by long distance movement skills like reality, starleaper, etc) Still, reality seems like a doze compared to some of the other illuminati sorcery floating around nowadays.
wait you can't ascend out of Frosticia? I ascended off a bubble just the other day, can you only do so when there's a revolt/domoth on that bubble or something?
Rave for butterfly being the face of what is overpowered about paradigmatics. Certainly more amusing than Reality.
Don't think we've forgotten reality. Almost got stuck due to it on Frosticia one time. (Hint, if a location is "You can't ascend from heres", it should most certainly not be a location that you can get thrown to by long distance movement skills like reality, starleaper, etc) Still, reality seems like a doze compared to some of the other illuminati sorcery floating around nowadays.
wait you can't ascend out of Frosticia? I ascended off a bubble just the other day, can you only do so when there's a revolt/domoth on that bubble or something?
The locked area within Frosticia (I.e. the place where the ice wyrms roam) is completely and 100% no ascend, so if you get thrown in there via reality, which in that particular situation happened to not just one, but two separate people... you're screwed. Luckily, I had a meld outside I could center to and then get out.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I'm still enemied to the Facility for murdering all the gnomes when the epic broke (rave for therapeutic murder). Has anyone managed to start it in the last year?
Comments
Thank you for not just going through and hitting off-topic on everything. I noticed and appreciate it! /me raves for restraint.
And raves to Lhiannan (and whatever admin decided to join us) for showing up and being amazing. It makes family events even more wonderful when we get surprise visits. :x
Bug #10132 Resolution: The EQ loss on failed rads (with staffsling) appears to be intentional, probably to prevent spamming in order to instant-move a target when s/he enters an adjacent room, and will thus remain. However, the erroneous stacking of the eq loss has been fixed.
I'd also like to point out that I never mentioned that the eq loss on failed rads due to target not being present is not intentional, but eh... anyway.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I just want people to review that statement and wonder if something like that translates as balance
In the quote Sidd is referring explicitly to the construct version of butterfly, which I don't even consider when I think of the ability, because any valid argument about butterfly being of any use has to be premeditated on it being spammable. The closest plausible situation where the construct version has an effect would be on domoth fights, and with very specific circumstances - that the side being butterflied has no one with ready access to the bubble (ie the domoth will be decided within the time it would take for a person to get back to the bubble), as well as the fight itself being decided by the presence or absence of a single person (whoever is being butterflied). In that scenario, getting removed from the bubble (killed or maggoted) would make the gamble of using a once-only butterfly have an actual impact. In that scenario, it is unfair that one side has access to an ability that WILL actually lead to the win or loss of the fight, from just a single use - in that case, the construct version of butterfly has enough impact that it becomes possibly unbalancing to allow it to be used by every member of an org.
In the more often-seen cases, a one-off removal of a person from a fight is next to useless because unless you can continually use the ability with a chance of removing that person each time, they will be back before you can solidify an advantage that will influence the outcome of the contest. The debate, if any exists, has to be centered around those who have trans paradigmatics, because the construct butterfly is literally more useless than normal butterfly, if such a thing can be conceived (yes, very surprising, I know).
Yeah but now all that restraint is used up. Here come the dreaded flags!!!
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Glad that's over!
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Three years, I almost left again. But some random conversations from some lovely, lovely people, you guys make it really fun.
Thank you.
Currently Playing in: The doctors office. One more needle and I might just lose it again.
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