Though I could summarize the "well known mechanics" of Lusternia is this little dialogue:
Newcomer: Hi, I'm interested in getting involved in combat, I got all the herbs and curatives, what else do I need to know?
PersonA: Got your cleanse enchantment?
Newcomer: Cleanse?
PersonA: You'll need that for Druids that use sap and ectoplasm.
Newcomer: Cant I apply something?
PersonA: Nope. Make sure you arent in trees and if they entangle, you're screwed
Newcomer: How do I get out of such a situation...
PersonA: You tumble for your life.
Newcomer: I dont have that.
PersonA: Also remember to switch stance around compared to your most wounded limbs from knights and monks, either pick to do it weighted or full. Dont forget to parry as well.
Newcomer: How do I see that..?
PersonA: Check your wounds and see which are most damaged then figure stances out.
PersonB: Dont forget about bards
PersonA: Right, keep deafness up
Newcomer: Okay
PersonB: That wont help for deathsong
PersonA: earache fades before deathsong
Newcomer: what's earache..
PersonB: Not if they're mugwump
PersonA: Right...you'll need to get a fear enchantment to use if they're mugwump and use deathsong after a blanknote + pfifth.
Newcomer: Um..okay
PersonA: What class are you?
Newcomer: Mage
PersonA: Right, you'll have to get a timer set to cast your abilities after 10 seconds to make sure your meld hits all at once
Newcomer: My meld effects?
PersonB: Shit, revolt
PersonA: To Stewartsville!
Newcomer: What do I do?!?
PersonA: Stand next to random villagers and see if they start shuffling
Newcomer: Shuffling??
PersonA: Basically if they move their feet. Like an emote
Newcomer: Holy fuck, im being hit by like 10 lines of spam, what is happening
PersonA: There's an enemy meld, read a protection scroll
Newcomer: A what..
PersonA: Walk to my location
Newcomer: I cant see anything, The exits are hidden...
Newcomer: Someone is doing something to me, it's draining my ego
PersonA: They are debating you, change your mindsets to counter
Newcomer: ...what are those.
PersonA: Do Mindset pedantic or Mindset Analytical or Mindset Cautious.
Newcomer: I'm being chased by someone and seeing wierd images of angels.
PersonA: Dont let them inquisiton you
Newcomer: What is that?
Newcomer has been slain.
PersonA: okay, that revolt is done then
Newcomer: Finally..
PersonB: Shit...flares!
<And the newcomer was never seen again>
1
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited March 2015
Arcanis: upset he has to have things and know things to be successful in pk.
Arcanis: I threw away demigod trying to make a point. Validate my response and concerns as retribution.
Everyone: No.
Arcanis: But earache is a random variable, and in the most wild of circumstances I might actually get stuck in the room with a mugwump bard trying to deathsong me.
Person 1: Oh, well you can buy a fear enchantment for that.
Person 2: Don't you have TK? Psychicpush ignores summon resistance, you could use that to interrupt any channel if you just kept Superstratus unlocked.
Person 1: Yeah, it's really that simple to avoid being killed by something like that.
Person 3: Maybe he could use beast spit, or even MajorBreath isn't that far into Beastmastery. He could use a sleep enchant and Sleepcloud.
Arcanis: No, it's broken. Cater to my requests please.
EDIT: And are you sure that 'newcomer' isn't supposed to be 'Arcanis'? I distinctly remember you sparring me and being surprised that sap existed, not thaaat long ago.
Though I could summarize the "well known mechanics" of Lusternia is this little dialogue:
Newcomer: Hi, I'm interested in getting involved in combat, I got all the herbs and curatives, what else do I need to know?
<And the newcomer was never seen again>
How this should have happened:
Newcomer: Hi, I'm interested in getting involved in combat, I got all the herbs and curatives, what else do I need to know?
Player A: Go hunt in Newton and get some circles, then collect bards and scholars, then do the college stuff, then go hunting in Shallach, then go hunting in this other place.
Newcomer: Ok, now I'm level 60. Now what do I do?
Player B: Come to the Arena with me and I'll show you a few things.
Player A: Revolt!
Player B: Don't worry about that, let's go train.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Newcomer: Holy fuck, im being hit by like 10 lines of spam, what is happening
PersonA: There's an enemy meld, read a protection scroll
Newcomer: A what..
PersonA: Walk to my location
Newcomer: I cant see anything, The exits are hidden...
Newcomer: Someone is doing something to me, it's draining my ego
PersonA: They are debating you, change your mindsets to counter
Newcomer: ...what are those.
PersonA: Do Mindset pedantic or Mindset Analytical or Mindset Cautious.
Newcomer: I'm being chased by someone and seeing wierd images of angels.
Why are they debating...in a non-peaced revolt?
HELP 10.3.1.1
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'm more concerned about said newbie surviving said meld without a protection scroll. He's got a guardian angel he does. Surviving a meld, running out of debates, leaving the room mid inquichain. He doesn't even know what he's doing. He's a trooper.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
If you can pick up a game's entire combat routine by a simple 2-minute chat, without any actual practice, then the game's combat system is too easy and will be extraordinarily uninteresting.
You don't try to teach them everything via word of mouth, you talk to them a little bit at a time. Then first, you teach them how to deal with their own guild's things. After that, they go off and practice with other guilds until they learn the various mechanics.
He's a newbie, he won't have it. Someone else used it, duh :P
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Though I could summarize the "well known mechanics" of Lusternia is this little dialogue:
Newcomer: Hi, I'm interested in getting involved in combat, I got all the herbs and curatives, what else do I need to know?
<And the newcomer was never seen again>
How this should have happened:
Newcomer: Hi, I'm interested in getting involved in combat, I got all the herbs and curatives, what else do I need to know?
Player A: Go hunt in Icewynd/Lirangsha and get some circles, then collect bards and scholars, then do the college stuff, then go hunting in Shallach, then go hunting in this other place.
Newcomer: Ok, now I'm level 60. Now what do I do?
Player B: Come to the Arena with me and I'll show you a few things.
Arcanis: I threw away demigod trying to make a point. Validate my response and concerns as retribution.
Everyone: No.
Arcanis: But earache is a random variable, and in the most wild of circumstances I might actually get stuck in the room with a mugwump bard trying to deathsong me.
I recall a similar debate once upon a time concerning Ixion and Knight skills, and how apparently him being the rare variable that was annihilating individuals should in fact -be- taken into consideration concerning knight balance. Frankly you said it yourself "the circumstance of a mugwump bard appearing that will break the norm of the basic function of countering a combo". Thus meaning that it can be broken and needs to be adjusted. Adding -more- variables to the already overloaded mechanics that are Lusternia will just drown it further.
Frankly im not sure why I need to debate this point so strongly. Lusternia obviously has its large issues with combat which is not only seen by outsiders (mind the pun) as overwhelming, but also having far too many imbalances. Dont believe me? Then just ask players in other games (that dont play lusternia...) of their opinions. It seems like people are purposely attempting to turn a blindeye to the obvious that -lusternia combat system is in a bad state-. Why do you think we have so few people willing to get involved.
I could write a list of all the issues and ways to correct them, and it would be quite the long list (i'll consider it later), but constantly dismissing every brought up issue showcasing this simply because you are either a. Used to the mechanics as is so they arent a problem or b. Dont want them to change, will just continue to harm the game further.
Edit: And please no one use the excuse of overhaul to state either 'It is getting fixed' or 'That is why they arent working to balance problems'. Frankly working on 'overhauling the affliction system' seems like the wrong route to even go about this entire fiasco
We have so few people willing to get involved because few people actually want to put in the time and effort it takes to be successful and just want quick easybutton kills. You're one of those people @Arcanis, that doesn't want to bother actually learning how things work to improve and get better. You're in good company though, these people are in every org.
By the way, saying that someone is 'used to the mechanic's, so they aren't a problem' means that they learned how to deal with said mechanic, which means it's quite possible for you too to deal with such mechanics.
The problem with @Ixion, and other min/maxed warriors wasn't to do with variables or chance. It's a problem of outliers, who can consistently operate outside what appears to be the intended balance because of an unexpected (and very difficult to balance for) gulf between the 'ceiling' of possibility, the average case, and the floor. It has very little to do with the blanknote thing.
Honestly, i've always found that the other games had more imbalanced and crazy op skills, but that they were in a more even distribution (generally). Usually, you had your own op stuff, and could reasonably kill another person in the wild solo, even at the top tier, even if they were trying to run away. That's not the case in Lusternia, if someone at high tier doesn't want to fight, there is close to nothing a single opponent can do to stop them, period. Even if they don't run, depending on guild rps, it may just become an attrition battle.
... I could write a list of all the issues and ways to current them, and it would be quite the long list (i'll consider it later), but constantly dismissing every brought up issue showcasing this simply because you are either a. Used to the mechanics as is so they arent a problem or b. Dont want them to change, will just continue to harm the game further. ...
Issues are dismissed when evidence supporting the issue is proven to be false or insufficient. Getting to this conclusion requires discussion and debate, and the sharing of ideas, knowledge, data and provable evidence as well. All your "issues with combat" that have been dismissed have all been done so because numerous other people have posted reliable, provable, empirical evidence of why it is not an issue. Your ignoring of these evidence laid against your arguments is the dismissal you are complaining about. You pointedly ignore it when Celina politely told you why the fear enchantment is an example of a basic defense spell that can be used to counter an unprepped deathsong, and then turn around to accuse the community of ignoring you. Why don't you try reading and considering other people's posts for once, instead of thinking you're the authority on everything?
5. Personal attacks are not allowed. Debate the post, not the poster. Personal attacks are taken seriously, and may, at the discretion of the moderating team, result in in-game consequences for your character(s).
Arcanis: I threw away demigod trying to make a point. Validate my response and concerns as retribution.
Everyone: No.
Arcanis: But earache is a random variable, and in the most wild of circumstances I might actually get stuck in the room with a mugwump bard trying to deathsong me.
I recall a similar debate once upon a time concerning Ixion and Knight skills, and how apparently him being the rare variable that was annihilating individuals should in fact -be- taken into consideration concerning knight balance. Frankly you said it yourself "the circumstance of a mugwump bard appearing that will break the norm of the basic function of countering a combo". Thus meaning that it can be broken and needs to be adjusted. Adding -more- variables to the already overloaded mechanics that are Lusternia will just drown it further.
~snip~
So literally every thing that has a chance to be abused (even under the most rare of circumstances) needs to be brought under close scrutiny until it's at a "fair" level to every person who plays the game? That's like giving the robber your money so they don't steal it.
EDIT: People will always find ways to abuse mechanics, no matter how fair and balanced you believe them to be.
Does basic Caw count as fear? OR can true sight/blindness block it?
OR earwort/deafness/truehearing, as it's hearing thing I guess.....
1. Remove crow cloak 2. Do not go into crowform 3. config masochism on 4. caw @ tylwyth, testing different ways to counter it.... if memory serves, though, there is no actual counter to basic crow caw fear. Then again... no-one remembers to use it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
.. if memory serves, though, there is no actual counter to basic crow caw fear. Then again... no-one remembers to use it.
blah, Wolf can block it, IIRC, as that's all I knew to use it before someone pointed out scent. It's just that it's less than a 50% chance of doing so.
Comments
Newcomer: Hi, I'm interested in getting involved in combat, I got all the herbs and curatives, what else do I need to know?
PersonA: Got your cleanse enchantment?
Newcomer: Cleanse?
PersonA: You'll need that for Druids that use sap and ectoplasm.
Newcomer: Cant I apply something?
PersonA: Nope. Make sure you arent in trees and if they entangle, you're screwed
Newcomer: How do I get out of such a situation...
PersonA: You tumble for your life.
Newcomer: I dont have that.
PersonA: Also remember to switch stance around compared to your most wounded limbs from knights and monks, either pick to do it weighted or full. Dont forget to parry as well.
Newcomer: How do I see that..?
PersonA: Check your wounds and see which are most damaged then figure stances out.
PersonB: Dont forget about bards
PersonA: Right, keep deafness up
Newcomer: Okay
PersonB: That wont help for deathsong
PersonA: earache fades before deathsong
Newcomer: what's earache..
PersonB: Not if they're mugwump
PersonA: Right...you'll need to get a fear enchantment to use if they're mugwump and use deathsong after a blanknote + pfifth.
Newcomer: Um..okay
PersonA: What class are you?
Newcomer: Mage
PersonA: Right, you'll have to get a timer set to cast your abilities after 10 seconds to make sure your meld hits all at once
Newcomer: My meld effects?
PersonB: Shit, revolt
PersonA: To Stewartsville!
Newcomer: What do I do?!?
PersonA: Stand next to random villagers and see if they start shuffling
Newcomer: Shuffling??
PersonA: Basically if they move their feet. Like an emote
Newcomer: Holy fuck, im being hit by like 10 lines of spam, what is happening
PersonA: There's an enemy meld, read a protection scroll
Newcomer: A what..
PersonA: Walk to my location
Newcomer: I cant see anything, The exits are hidden...
Newcomer: Someone is doing something to me, it's draining my ego
PersonA: They are debating you, change your mindsets to counter
Newcomer: ...what are those.
PersonA: Do Mindset pedantic or Mindset Analytical or Mindset Cautious.
Newcomer: I'm being chased by someone and seeing wierd images of angels.
PersonA: Dont let them inquisiton you
Newcomer: What is that?
Newcomer has been slain.
PersonA: okay, that revolt is done then
Newcomer: Finally..
PersonB: Shit...flares!
<And the newcomer was never seen again>
Edit: who inquisitions newbies during revolts?
Everyone: No.
Arcanis: But earache is a random variable, and in the most wild of circumstances I might actually get stuck in the room with a mugwump bard trying to deathsong me.
Person 1: Oh, well you can buy a fear enchantment for that.
Person 2: Don't you have TK? Psychicpush ignores summon resistance, you could use that to interrupt any channel if you just kept Superstratus unlocked.
Person 1: Yeah, it's really that simple to avoid being killed by something like that.
Person 3: Maybe he could use beast spit, or even MajorBreath isn't that far into Beastmastery. He could use a sleep enchant and Sleepcloud.
Arcanis: No, it's broken. Cater to my requests please.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Newcomer: Hi, I'm interested in getting involved in combat, I got all the herbs and curatives, what else do I need to know?
Player A: Go hunt in Newton and get some circles, then collect bards and scholars, then do the college stuff, then go hunting in Shallach, then go hunting in this other place.
Newcomer: Ok, now I'm level 60. Now what do I do?
Player B: Come to the Arena with me and I'll show you a few things.
Player A: Revolt!
Player B: Don't worry about that, let's go train.
He doesn't even know what he's doing. He's a trooper.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
You don't try to teach them everything via word of mouth, you talk to them a little bit at a time. Then first, you teach them how to deal with their own guild's things. After that, they go off and practice with other guilds until they learn the various mechanics.
I even married one. Good with their tongues.
I recall a similar debate once upon a time concerning Ixion and Knight skills, and how apparently him being the rare variable that was annihilating individuals should in fact -be- taken into consideration concerning knight balance. Frankly you said it yourself "the circumstance of a mugwump bard appearing that will break the norm of the basic function of countering a combo". Thus meaning that it can be broken and needs to be adjusted. Adding -more- variables to the already overloaded mechanics that are Lusternia will just drown it further.
Frankly im not sure why I need to debate this point so strongly. Lusternia obviously has its large issues with combat which is not only seen by outsiders (mind the pun) as overwhelming, but also having far too many imbalances. Dont believe me? Then just ask players in other games (that dont play lusternia...) of their opinions. It seems like people are purposely attempting to turn a blindeye to the obvious that -lusternia combat system is in a bad state-. Why do you think we have so few people willing to get involved.
I could write a list of all the issues and ways to correct them, and it would be quite the long list (i'll consider it later), but constantly dismissing every brought up issue showcasing this simply because you are either a. Used to the mechanics as is so they arent a problem or b. Dont want them to change, will just continue to harm the game further.
Edit: And please no one use the excuse of overhaul to state either 'It is getting fixed' or 'That is why they arent working to balance problems'. Frankly working on 'overhauling the affliction system' seems like the wrong route to even go about this entire fiasco
EDIT: People will always find ways to abuse mechanics, no matter how fair and balanced you believe them to be.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
2. Do not go into crowform
3. config masochism on
4. caw @ tylwyth, testing different ways to counter it.... if memory serves, though, there is no actual counter to basic crow caw fear. Then again... no-one remembers to use it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.