Yes, jump actually makes 1 crystal that you get from Dolly pretty useful, levitate is just an enchant that's still not as good as the gnome levitate/sprint dingbat artifact.
In otherwords, everyone (without totems) benefits from jump, a lot fewer people benefit from levitate.
That's kind of the idea. All of the really useful and powerful totems abilities are already available to everyone else on top of their special skill bonuses. Please please go ahead and change it.
Anyways, isn't the argument that jump is better than levitate (which it is) an argument for making it higher up in the list, as stronger effects should cost more?
Jump gives a 'nice and useful' totems ability to everyone, overkill.
In the past, the dolly event gave out a small batch of dingbats (FAR less than the value of a pogo), or some curios iirc, also closer in value to a levitate enchant.
I don't think it's a big deal. Honestly, a lot of the utility totem skills should be available to everyone. The advantage of totems is that you get them for free, and that should be enough. Think of it as being analogous to people with cosmic or rituals.
That's kind of the idea. All of the really useful and powerful totems abilities are already available to everyone else on top of their special skill bonuses. Please please go ahead and change it.
Im pretty sure the 'idea' isnt to try and make an item and quest seem less interesting and valuable. Also you really have to let this 'totems are shared with everyone' argument go. The abilities you're mentioning in totems: Leap, Sprint, Climbing up, are all common physical abilities that is assumed any mortal can learn, it isnt as if they are taking things like totem heal and gore..
Totems is focused around the idea of "natural enhancements", which also happens to correspond with "natural capability" people can garner. Thems the breaks.
btw, with wonder items, if more are going to be coming out with time, I'd suggest adding the capability to WONDER<item> DISMANTLE, in the case someone later finds an item they would have much more preferred and find their half-complete wand now a waste of purchase.
Again, people did the Dolly quest in spades when it had a weaker benefit. The quest is already getting MEGA buffed by giving out a crystal at all, especially for trade value. Making the effect not straight-away be a strong artifact isn't a huge ask, guys.
How many dingbats was it worth? Was it 100 dingbats, the cost of the pogo, because I seem to remember it being closer to 15-25 dingbats. If you don't like or want your wonder crystal, I'm 100% sure someone will buy it off you for 100 credits, far and away used by more players and possessing more of a benefit to more players. \
Scintillating strands of energy weave together, hardening and forming into a pair of wondrous wings. Glowing with a strange luminescence, small runes are etched along the spine of each feather. The wings flap back and forth of their own accord, sending ripples of shimmering light through the air.
Also, how do you use them? WONDERWINGS LIST gives: **************************************************[ Wings of Wonder ]*************************************************** # Power Type Charges Used Active Type ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 Jumping ability N/A N/A N/A ************************************************************************************************************************
WONDERWINGS ACTIVATE JUMPING <direction> does nothing though.
Scintillating strands of energy weave together, hardening and forming into a pair of wondrous wings. Glowing with a strange luminescence, small runes are etched along the spine of each feather. The wings flap back and forth of their own accord, sending ripples of shimmering light through the air.
Also, how do you use them? WONDERWINGS LIST gives: **************************************************[ Wings of Wonder ]*************************************************** # Power Type Charges Used Active Type ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 Jumping ability N/A N/A N/A ************************************************************************************************************************
WONDERWINGS ACTIVATE JUMPING <direction> does nothing though.
8913h, 6595m, 8058e, 10p, 31205en, 25145w exkb<>-(+236e, 2.9%) wonderwings activate jump w Your Wings of Wonder flap gracefully through the air as you draw on their power. You jump towards the west as the power from your Wings of Wonder carries you in a great arc above the ground.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
We're thinking of swapping jump and levitate in wings power. Any final arguments before or against before we make the decision?
Why? Seems it should need a strong reason to change something once released.
Here are the powers.
1 Jumping 2 Aries (25% insanity reduction on Aries astrosphere) 3 Taurus (25% insanity reduction on Taurus astrosphere) 4 Levitating 5 Gemini (25% insanity reduction on Gemini astrosphere) 6 Cancer (25% insanity reduction on Cancer astrosphere) 7 Gust 8 Leo (25% insanity reduction on Leo astrosphere) 9 Virgo (25% insanity reduction on Aries astrosphere) 10 Flying 11 Windwall 3x/day 12 Libra (25% insanity reduction on Libra astrosphere) 13 Scorpio (25% insanity reduction on Scorpio astrosphere) 14 Windrunning (sprinting while flying) 15 Sagittarius (25% insanity reduction on Sagittarius astrosphere) 16 Capricorn (25% insanity reduction on Capricorn astrosphere) 17 Wind Immunity - lasts 15 minutes, 3x/RL day 18 Aquarius (25% insanity reduction on Aquarius astrosphere) 19 Pisces (25% insanity reduction on Pisces astrosphere) 20 Skydive - while flying, you may instant teleport to target who is outdoors in the same area at ground level (similar to nature flow), lose entourage, arrive off-balance at ground level
If you swap it with levitating then it is being not only valued at 400 credits, but there is very little else in the mix to make it worth building up the wings. Flying is at 10, or 1k, when the artifact sells for 400cr.
Just because Dolly traditionally hasn't given out items worth 100cr seems like a certain player reaching for any justification. We've had stalkings and snowglobs off the top of my head, both worth far more.
Totem has a way to bypass walls, so do many others. Illuminati gets their own leap (and wings) and we're not bitching. Acrobats and harmony users are just the start of the list of those who can get around walls.
Wait, so it's not okay to value jump at 400 credits, but it's okay to leave levitate there? Changing the order also doesn't change any of the worth of building the wings overall, in fact it increases the benefits for building up the artifact instead of leaving it at one jewel for leap.
Jump is a strong effect. Levitate (or Gust) are enchants, and are therefore weaker. Stronger effects should cost more than weaker effects. Therefore, Jumping should be further in the list than levitate (or gust, tbh).
It's the same reason that claw and sky trances were reversed in order in Shamanism. It doesn't mean you won't eventually get both effects with enough investment, it's just that one is stronger and should therefore require a higher investment. Pretty simple stuff for this 'certain player'.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'm not really impressed with the wings. I am impressed with free jumping this month. This is a little more like the promos of old where you actually felt you got something.
I'm a new player here so I don't really know all the past arguments about skills and artifacts and whatnot, but it seems to me that making an ability cost the same across different methods of acquiring said ability makes the most sense. The Dolly quest is nice, and for those of us we are around right now to do it are going to see a benefit from that. However, after the event in order to get jump either via pogo or wings would cost the same.
I don't see how the fact it is an ability that exists in skill set should make it cost more for wings than it would via dingbats. I also don't understand how multiple skills from a skill set being made into artifacts is an argument to boost the price of an existing artifact power. If commune abilities are being overly cannibalized that is an issue in and of itself, and shouldn't be a motivator to drive up the cost of an artifact ability that already exist in the game.
It's not the same effect for the same cost, cumulatively. It's the jump effect plus anything else you might get from powering up the same object.
That's not so much the problem as much as it is that all players who can log on now, are getting jumping/leap. Not for 100 credits/dingbats, not as a guild sklll: absolutely free, no cost but a few minutes effort. If you started a character next month instead of this month, you would not be able to get that free crystal, and might not even be able to get the wonder wings at all. For such a powerful/useful ability (it really is), that's not very fair at all. All of the arguments about it being okay because totems gets it for free are red herrings: right now, everyone who bothers gets it for free.
I'm going to reiterate the most important part so that it doesn't get lost: You are getting this effect 100% free. Players in a few weeks time will either have to be a specific class that gives it as a guild skill, or chunk out resources worth $40 to get the effect.
I'm 100% comfortable being the voice of criticism every single time a promotion releases some new item that introduces feature creep or other inappropriate boon. Just gonna have to get used to it, I guess?
Imo, jumping is absolutely fine as the first ability for the wings. The "do not spread the skill around" ship has already sailed on this skill. It does not matter if everyone gets it for free from an easy little couple-day promo, they could've gotten it by building up dingbats from other promos too.
That said, I don't care if it changes either, but there's absolutely no need to get all excited about it either way!
Note: Edited to clarify what I meant when I said "silly" instead of "easy". It's been too long since we had a promo like this, that actually gave something nice. No need to rain all over it.
Wait, so it's not okay to value jump at 400 credits, but it's okay to leave levitate there? Changing the order also doesn't change any of the worth of building the wings overall, in fact it increases the benefits for building up the artifact instead of leaving it at one jewel for leap.
Jump is a strong effect. Levitate (or Gust) are enchants, and are therefore weaker. Stronger effects should cost more than weaker effects. Therefore, Jumping should be further in the list than levitate (or gust, tbh).
It's the same reason that claw and sky trances were reversed in order in Shamanism. It doesn't mean you won't eventually get both effects with enough investment, it's just that one is stronger and should therefore require a higher investment. Pretty simple stuff for this 'certain player'.
The point is not everything is worth the same. Wings are a nice perk, but no one wants to pay 1000cr for 400 wings. Most the abilities in this set are of questionable value as compared to just buying the artifacts.
Of course changing the order matters, since if you actually thought everyone was going to build up the wings you wouldn't be asking for a change. Consider instead, that getting an artifact which can be expanded an actually has value now acts as a 'gateway' purchase. You're really caught up on the promo, but they'll be other wonder promos and having jump will encourage them to start wings where your stance removes that incentive.
This isn't the sky is falling. If they want to make money of of wonder items they have to pull in more people than just the few who will buy most anything.
Now if you want to explain how many people you think will be lining up to shell out 300 credits for a wonder pogo, I'm all ears.
You don't actually pay 100 credits to get a crystal. You buy 100 credits to get a crystal _and_ 100 credits. While it's more or less the same thing for people who have already bought all the artifacts they want, there's a huge difference when it comes to people still investing in their artifacts. For them, the wings are a free perk because they got their artifact.
Comments
February: Lusternia releases Wonderwings.
Im pretty sure the 'idea' isnt to try and make an item and quest seem less interesting and valuable. Also you really have to let this 'totems are shared with everyone' argument go. The abilities you're mentioning in totems: Leap, Sprint, Climbing up, are all common physical abilities that is assumed any mortal can learn, it isnt as if they are taking things like totem heal and gore..
Totems is focused around the idea of "natural enhancements", which also happens to correspond with "natural capability" people can garner. Thems the breaks.
Scintillating strands of energy weave together, hardening and forming into a pair of wondrous wings. Glowing with a strange luminescence, small runes are etched along the spine of each feather. The wings flap back and forth of their own accord, sending ripples of shimmering light through the air.
Also, how do you use them? WONDERWINGS LIST gives:
**************************************************[ Wings of Wonder ]***************************************************
# Power Type Charges Used Active Type
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Jumping ability N/A N/A N/A
************************************************************************************************************************
WONDERWINGS ACTIVATE JUMPING <direction> does nothing though.
Your Wings of Wonder flap gracefully through the air as you draw on their power.
You jump towards the west as the power from your Wings of Wonder carries you in a great arc above the ground.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Here are the powers.
1 Jumping
2 Aries (25% insanity reduction on Aries astrosphere)
3 Taurus (25% insanity reduction on Taurus astrosphere)
4 Levitating
5 Gemini (25% insanity reduction on Gemini astrosphere)
6 Cancer (25% insanity reduction on Cancer astrosphere)
7 Gust
8 Leo (25% insanity reduction on Leo astrosphere)
9 Virgo (25% insanity reduction on Aries astrosphere)
10 Flying
11 Windwall 3x/day
12 Libra (25% insanity reduction on Libra astrosphere)
13 Scorpio (25% insanity reduction on Scorpio astrosphere)
14 Windrunning (sprinting while flying)
15 Sagittarius (25% insanity reduction on Sagittarius astrosphere)
16 Capricorn (25% insanity reduction on Capricorn astrosphere)
17 Wind Immunity - lasts 15 minutes, 3x/RL day
18 Aquarius (25% insanity reduction on Aquarius astrosphere)
19 Pisces (25% insanity reduction on Pisces astrosphere)
20 Skydive - while flying, you may instant teleport to target who is
outdoors in the same area at ground level (similar to nature flow), lose
entourage, arrive off-balance at ground level
If you swap it with levitating then it is being not only valued at 400 credits, but there is very little else in the mix to make it worth building up the wings. Flying is at 10, or 1k, when the artifact sells for 400cr.
Just because Dolly traditionally hasn't given out items worth 100cr seems like a certain player reaching for any justification. We've had stalkings and snowglobs off the top of my head, both worth far more.
Totem has a way to bypass walls, so do many others. Illuminati gets their own leap (and wings) and we're not bitching. Acrobats and harmony users are just the start of the list of those who can get around walls.
That said, I don't care if it changes either, but there's absolutely no need to get all excited about it either way!
Note: Edited to clarify what I meant when I said "silly" instead of "easy". It's been too long since we had a promo like this, that actually gave something nice. No need to rain all over it.
Of course changing the order matters, since if you actually thought everyone was going to build up the wings you wouldn't be asking for a change. Consider instead, that getting an artifact which can be expanded an actually has value now acts as a 'gateway' purchase. You're really caught up on the promo, but they'll be other wonder promos and having jump will encourage them to start wings where your stance removes that incentive.
This isn't the sky is falling. If they want to make money of of wonder items they have to pull in more people than just the few who will buy most anything.
Now if you want to explain how many people you think will be lining up to shell out 300 credits for a wonder pogo, I'm all ears.
You don't actually pay 100 credits to get a crystal. You buy 100 credits to get a crystal _and_ 100 credits. While it's more or less the same thing for people who have already bought all the artifacts they want, there's a huge difference when it comes to people still investing in their artifacts. For them, the wings are a free perk because they got their artifact.