Fink RP and Lore

QistrelQistrel the hemisemidemifink
HELP FINKS pretty much says player finks are from aetherspace, not the Newton Caverns. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that Newton/Lolliprin finks are the same size as gnomes, whereas player finks are more furrikin-sized.)

Which would mean my fink is from Mucklemash. But I've been there, looked around a lot, and Mucklemarsh finks don't actually seem to have access to tech from the Divinity. So I now have a number of questions, such as:

1. How the nil did I get to the basin?
2. Why am I so good at shooting turrets?
3. Why are there no non-matriarch female finks on Mucklemarsh?
4. Is the Great Bog Mother my mom?

I seems like there was a disconnect somewhere between established fink lore and making the fink player race, because the feeling I get from HELP FINKS is that there are at least a few fink ships sailing aetherspace, maybe a whole bunch, and that they're pretty good fighter craft. But nowhere in Newton, Lolliprin or Mucklemsah is there any evidence of this, as far as I can tell.

Except possibly for the stuff with Grandmother Gucka. She and a supposed large army of powerful finks somehow got from Mucklemarsh to Lolliprin, where they decimated King Newton's army and gained control of the original Gizmo portal, allowing them to then invade Newton. Momma Mia says that Grandmother Gucka 'abandoned them' at some point after this. Presumably, the finks then lost their impetus, allowing the gnomes to rally and turn the tide of battle back in their favour.

Its possible that the finks cobbled together an aethercraft or two to get from Mucklemarsh to Lolliprin. But that skill leaves me with the question of where exactly my character comes from.

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Comments

  • QistrelQistrel the hemisemidemifink
    edited January 2015
    More on finks:

    * They lay eggs but have breasts. (So I've been assuming they have a monotreme-like reporductive cycle.)

    * They have a hive structure, with clans lead by a big, powerful, winged matriarch, who rule by willpower and brute force.

    * There seem to be no non-matriarch female finks except in Newton.

    * They have a tendancy to not look after themselves very well, developing flaky scales, puss-oozing sores, and a horrible smell BUT there is one example of an elderly fink male who has looked atfer himself and dresses smartly, has good scales and doesn't smell. Too badly.

    * Either fink matriarchs either have a degree of control over what eggs they lay (warrior, worker, female, etc) and Mucka has deteriorated to the point where she can't produce warrior eggs, OR all male finks are strong warriors, but Mucka can only produce weak versions of both male and female finks.

  • edited January 2015
    There are certain species of bugs where the gender of the being is determined by development that happens after the egg is hatched. For example, there's a species of bee that becomes male or female depending on if they eat more or less than 4 caterpillars.

    Of course, not completely relevant in this instance, more a side note on how many variations that there exist on development, but there probably is an environmental factor to Newton that causes weak finks and finkettes to be born from Mucka. Heck, considering how many finkettes are in Newton, it might be that Mucka exhausted herself by birthing females in hopes of getting a suitable heir.

    Anyway, I personally don't think that the finks can control what kids they have. Not outside the usual proper eugenics at least. But to be honest, I wonder if Bog Mother could even get through the act of copulation without getting an exhaustion induced heart-attack. 

    Pardon if this appears somewhat random and non-directed. It's a bit of a stream-of-consciousness just-saying-things-as-I-think-them thing.

    I need more sleep.
    Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
  • It could also be that the finks in Newton are genetically the same as the ones in Mucklemarsh, but that Newton Caverns is inhospitable to fink life. The black caves where the ant-queen lives are slightly better, and Momma Mia sends her best warriors up to fight on top of Smoke Mountain. Under this logic, finks truly thrive in Mucklemarsh because either there's something there they eat regularly that they're missing in Newton, there's a big threat nearby that forces them to get stronger just to survive (raptors), or both at once.
    image
  • edited January 2015
    In truth, Mucklemarsh and even Cankermore both need more fleshing out. They are rather puny. I for one want to know wth are the mold warriors and how they came to be (not to mention their unusual manipulation of corpses into warriors).


    The finks should not have the turret racial advantage, it just doesnt make much sense. The gnomes on the otherhand have had their entire existence wrapped in Aetherspace, with them even being the first to develop the means of Aether travel as well inhabit other aetherbubbles like Bottlesdown. They basically are the headquarters of Aetherships.

    I think the racial advantages should be switched up. Perhaps give gnomes a level 1 EQ recovery on aether modules, and give Finks some other capabilities. Since they are rather sneaky and a scavenger race, they could be given the ability to see SECRET exits 100% when utilizing the ability. Maybe an immunity to stink too.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Just gotta say, I love that you're exploring all this. I look forward to seeing what you come up with! Don't forget to fill in the blanks with things that make sense to you.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • You know, there is an entire novel/manual in Newton which explains the whole history. If you haven't been directe to it yet, i recommend it.
  • QistrelQistrel the hemisemidemifink
    Yeah, I know it. It has the whole Gucka-terror-of-the-skies thing. It just doesn't explain how they got to Lolliprin.

    Side note: Want to know actual location of Lolliprin.

  • Arcanis said:
    In truth, Mucklemarsh and even Cankermore both need more fleshing out. They are rather puny. I for one want to know wth are the mold warriors and how they came to be (not to mention their unusual manipulation of corpses into warriors).


    The finks should not have the turret racial advantage, it just doesnt make much sense. The gnomes on the otherhand have had their entire existence wrapped in Aetherspace, with them even being the first to develop the means of Aether travel as well inhabit other aetherbubbles like Bottlesdown. They basically are the headquarters of Aetherships.

    I think the racial advantages should be switched up. Perhaps give gnomes a level 1 EQ recovery on aether modules, and give Finks some other capabilities. Since they are rather sneaky and a scavenger race, they could be given the ability to see SECRET exits 100% when utilizing the ability. Maybe an immunity to stink too.
    Incidentally, Secrets already has a 100% chance of success. Beyond that though, I agree. Fink racial stats do feel weird. At least until they unveil a new finkish aethership dock bubble or something akin to that.
    Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
  • QistrelQistrel the hemisemidemifink
    edited January 2015
    I want a fleet of fink aetherpirates to exist.

    If they expand the lore and introduce a faction of finks that fly around on ramshackle old ships (hey, Millennium Falcon) the racial stuff would make far more sense.

  • edited January 2015
    Qistrel said:
    Yeah, I know it. It has the whole Gucka-terror-of-the-skies thing. It just doesn't explain how they got to Lolliprin.

    Side note: Want to know actual location of Lolliprin.
    If I had to guess where Lolliprin was, I'd say the Kiakodan Nature Reserve. It is the closest approximation to what Lolliprin looks lil, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a hidden location. It's not an aetherbubble.
    Qistrel said:
    I want a fleet of fink aetherpirates to exist.
    To be honest, it seems like the entire lore is based around that Gnomes are the rulers of aetherspace. They are the pirates, there are the 'Gnafia' and tradesmen. Finks are just those who stole the technology (A recurring theme in fantasy writing, one side tries to gain an advantage and then the other side steals it and continues the stalemate).
  • QistrelQistrel the hemisemidemifink
    I'm cool with the finks having stolen all their aethertech from the gnomes. Stuck up bastards think they're so clever with their 19 intelligence. /forumrp

  • I'm just wondering now why are finks and gnomes fighting each other? Each of the other racial pair offs (Aslaran/Krokani, Viscanti/Merian) have established reasons for disliking each other, so what are theirs? Just Newton?
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Donato said:
    I'm just wondering now why are finks and gnomes fighting each other? Each of the other racial pair offs (Aslaran/Krokani, Viscanti/Merian) have established reasons for disliking each other, so what are theirs? Just Newton?
    Gnomes crashed on the fink home of Mucklemarsh and then unleashed slivven on the poor things. If you want to meet the slivven queen, she's on the Divinity too... and not creepy at all as she talks through a dead gnome.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • Wonder if Slivven are another splintered Soulless...
    image
  • Aerotan said:
    Wonder if Slivven are another splintered Soulless…
    Could be. Or another Elder who was experimented on. Finks are disgusting ugly creatures because Malmydia stole Fininkora's beauty/divine essence before she splintered.

    With the reveal that the gnomes started the war, well, what the Hell. Why does the game keep reinforcing that 'finks bad, gnomes good' when it should be ambiguous at best. The novice quest has you kill finks to help gnomes. Why not leave the choice?

    Sorry if this is off topic but it is something which is starting to bug me.
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Donato said:
    Aerotan said:
    Wonder if Slivven are another splintered Soulless…
    Could be. Or another Elder who was experimented on. Finks are disgusting ugly creatures because Malmydia stole Fininkora's beauty/divine essence before she splintered.

    With the reveal that the gnomes started the war, well, what the Hell. Why does the game keep reinforcing that 'finks bad, gnomes good' when it should be ambiguous at best. The novice quest has you kill finks to help gnomes. Why not leave the choice?

    Sorry if this is off topic but it is something which is starting to bug me.
    Because the quest has to be specific. I actually feel that the finks are generally the more 'good' creatures, being more of a Chaotic Good personality where as the gnomes are more along the lines of Lawful Neutral-Evil in their dealings. That said, gnomes can be mostly Lawful Neutral which doesn't really make them evil... and it's not like a conflict can't exist between two organizations that are not evil.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • Furthermore, beyond the Gnafia's continued exploitation of the Finks, I don't think the gnome of the Facility or Bottledowns care overly much about the finks. Their home don't have any natural resources to exploit. The Divinity crash was an accident caused by Kethuru being released by his prison.

    Incidentally, this was also what caused the slivven. Slivven are a taint by-product.
    Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
  • Kiradawea said:
    Furthermore, beyond the Gnafia's continued exploitation of the Finks, I don't think the gnome of the Facility or Bottledowns care overly much about the finks. Their home don't have any natural resources to exploit. The Divinity crash was an accident caused by Kethuru being released by his prison.

    Incidentally, this was also what caused the slivven. Slivven are a taint by-product.

    One could draw the conclusion that the gnome and fink races accessible by the players are descendants of those in newton caverns, rather than aetherspace, for the finks to have any knowledge of aetherships. Additionally, from their statistics alone, we can see they are both small in stature, meaning most assuredly they are from Newton.
  • I haven't engaged that much with this aspect of the game but I guess one point that I would like to make is that as far as the alignments go Lawful and Chaotic are as opposed as Good and Evil.

    People that are opposed on only one axis might ally to take out people they are opposed to on the other.


    There's also the... other alignments...

    One of my characters once was Chaotic Jerk. (Entirely selfish, only cares about his own knowledge, views the party as meat shields, killed a Barghest without the party knowing then tried to cook it and feed it to the paladin to hide the body so that he could try to convince them it had escaped from its prison)

    Like perhaps Finks are Chaotic Gross and the Gnomes are Lawful... snobs? 

  • QistrelQistrel the hemisemidemifink
    Kiradawea said:

    The Divinity crash was an accident caused by Kethuru being released by his prison.

    Incidentally, this was also what caused the slivven. Slivven are a taint by-product.

    Wait what? Never come across this before. Where is this explained?

  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear
    Am I the only person that envisions Redwall with this?

    I totes call Badger Lord.
    image
  • edited January 2015
    If I could relate Finks to anything in reality,  I'd say the hippies or gypsies.  If the gnomes were this empire that kept the fink oppressed, killing them without much care,  I see no reason why Finks couldn't adapt to fighting for survival in there differing groups.  If space pirates existed....that were not the Gnodfather ((never can type that name))  

    I'd personally think the finks relate to being aggressive space hippies who fight in a radical sence of freedom fighters.  Not saying all would be, just differing groups would branch out and create their own sense of survival and chaos in a false-sense of dirty gurellia fighting.   Don't forget, it wasn't just gnomes, but also the environs they grew up in without so much aid from really bloody anyone!  There still going to have to adapt to life within the basin just as much as gnomes have to.  I would love to have some tie-ins for new places related to the aetherspace to explore.  Places hidden by fink-tech they've adapted for their own means!

    If you think about it, there is a small nebulous star wars reference to empire vs rebels alliance in my mind ^.~  However I don't believe enough info really on gnomes and finks to really put a connection there.
  • Qistrel said:

    Kiradawea said:

    The Divinity crash was an accident caused by Kethuru being released by his prison.

    Incidentally, this was also what caused the slivven. Slivven are a taint by-product.

    Wait what? Never come across this before. Where is this explained?
    Read the logbook you find in the Divinity. It doesn't state either of them outright, but if you do a bit of math surrounding the dates on the log book, you'll find that the wave that caused the slivven to appear happened during the Taint Wars.
    Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
  • Wouldn't it make more sense for the thing that knocked Kethuru out of the Taint cloud to also be the thing that knocked the Divinity out of the aethers? AKA the Great Loss.
  • Pypo said:

    If space pirates existed....that were not the Gnodfather ((never can type that name))

    Are you serious, their leader is called that? Why not Vito Gnomeon.
  • QistrelQistrel the hemisemidemifink
    Yeah, that is seriously what they call him.

  • Iytha said:

    Wouldn't it make more sense for the thing that knocked Kethuru out of the Taint cloud to also be the thing that knocked the Divinity out of the aethers? AKA the Great Loss.

    But how would the Hallifax/Gaudiguch feedback loop create slivven?

    Also, the Gnodfather's real name is Vito Bondshredder. So there's still a Vito there.
    Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
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