If it's that important to you to not be enemied to Glom or Mag, join the org. That way you can't be enemied unless you do something to get kicked out.
I was Serenguard GM and enemied to Moon, Hart, Moondancers, Hartstone, and Lisaera all at the same time. True story (seriously, it is).
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
We're already turning this from a conflict-based, lore-deep RP-game into a mindless collection game, let's not encourage it.
I'd hardly call encouraging an existing conflict mechanic with an existing collectables mechanic turning Lusternia into a mindless collection game. It's replacing a negative motive for raiding ('I hurt my enemies') into a positive one ('I get rewarded').
We're already turning this from a conflict-based, lore-deep RP-game into a mindless collection game, let's not encourage it.
I'd hardly call encouraging an existing conflict mechanic with an existing collectables mechanic turning Lusternia into a mindless collection game. It's replacing a negative motive for raiding ('I hurt my enemies') into a positive one ('I get rewarded').
Or the raiders will just be equally sad when Albion turns into the Raging Maeve right eye curio piece for the fifth time, when the only piece everyone needs is the Raging Maeve left foot.
Dude, don't attach curio pieces to raiding. You're going to have Xenthos riding us to raid all the time until he's done, and riding you to get them back up again so that the process goes faster.
And then we'll have to declare war on Gaudi or Mag once he's got the deadMoon, deadLight and deadSphere sets done. Assuming he doesn't decide to go after the deadNight set first.
We're already turning this from a conflict-based, lore-deep RP-game into a mindless collection game, let's not encourage it.
I'd hardly call encouraging an existing conflict mechanic with an existing collectables mechanic turning Lusternia into a mindless collection game. It's replacing a negative motive for raiding ('I hurt my enemies') into a positive one ('I get rewarded').
The problem with that is that then you get people like me who do not raid much, and turn us into mindless raiding machines for the reward.
Something about collectibles is just very compelling to certain people.
The problem with that is that then you get people like me who do not raid much, and turn us into mindless raiding machines for the reward.
I'm not entirely convinced that would be an actual problem. If anything, I would think we want MORE raids. Defenders are less likely to get butthurt about raids if you reduce or eliminate the consequences of failing to defend the smobs, as well. Well, at least I would. Maybe I'm being naive.
The problem with that is that then you get people like me who do not raid much, and turn us into mindless raiding machines for the reward.
I'm not entirely convinced that would be an actual problem. If anything, I would think we want MORE raids. Defenders are less likely to get butthurt about raids if you reduce or eliminate the consequences of failing to defend the smobs, as well. Well, at least I would. Maybe I'm being naive.
The problem with that is that then you get people like me who do not raid much, and turn us into mindless raiding machines for the reward.
I'm not entirely convinced that would be an actual problem. If anything, I would think we want MORE raids. Defenders are less likely to get butthurt about raids if you reduce or eliminate the consequences of failing to defend the smobs, as well. Well, at least I would. Maybe I'm being naive.
If more raids were desired, the penalty for raiding would be reduced.
I'm not entirely convinced that would be an actual problem. If anything, I would think we want MORE raids. Defenders are less likely to get butthurt about raids if you reduce or eliminate the consequences of failing to defend the smobs, as well. Well, at least I would. Maybe I'm being naive.
You're also ignoring the fact that this is supposed to be an RP game. Yes, eliminating the penalties for smob raiding and replacing them with collectibles would really upset people because instead of the foundations of their characters religions, smobs would be just item dispensers with no meaning.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
You're also ignoring the fact that this is supposed to be an RP game. Yes, eliminating the penalties for smob raiding and replacing them with collectibles would really upset people because instead of the foundations of their characters religions, smobs would be just item dispensers with no meaning.
You act like RP motivators and reward motivators are mutually exclusive. They are not. What are the smobs now? McGuffins to be attacked or defended, with RP attached. What would they be with a tangible reward attached? MacGuffins to be attacked or defended, with RP attached, and a reward for attacking them.
You're also ignoring the fact that this is supposed to be an RP game. Yes, eliminating the penalties for smob raiding and replacing them with collectibles would really upset people because instead of the foundations of their characters religions, smobs would be just item dispensers with no meaning.
You act like RP motivators and reward motivators are mutually exclusive. They are not. What are the smobs now? McGuffins to be attacked or defended, with RP attached. What would they be with a tangible reward attached? MacGuffins to be attacked or defended, with RP attached, and a reward for attacking them.
We do get a reward for attacking them. We get power for turning them in. It's not a whole lot, but it's there. That said... what, exactly, is the benefit to defending them if they give curios?
EDIT: And then there's also the part where we get to pat ourselves on the back and go... "Woo, we sure kicked their butts."
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
No, smobs are MacGuffins to be attacked or defended with RP attached, for you only. For other people, it is other things. Stop pushing your own agendas and ideas on other people, because not everyone has the same ideas as you do. You have to acknowledge that people WILL stop defending their smobs if collectibles become a reward, and you have to acknowledge that some who don't usually raid WILL start raiding to the point of harrassment for nothing more than the reward.
No, smobs are MacGuffins to be attacked or defended with RP attached, for you only. For other people, it is other things. Stop pushing your own agendas and ideas on other people, because not everyone has the same ideas as you do. You have to acknowledge that people WILL stop defending their smobs if collectibles become a reward, and you have to acknowledge that some who don't usually raid WILL start raiding to the point of harrassment for nothing more than the reward.
I'm pretty sure that my statement was very general: smobs are mechanically MacGuffins to be attacked or defended, and have personal RP attached, whatever that may be. I'm not sure how you can call that untrue. I'm certainly not pushing an agenda on you. Why would people stop defending their own smobs if there was a reward attached to killing their enemies'? That makes no sense. The frequency of raids would probably increase, yes. To the point of harassment? I'm not so sure. The point stands that the current smob reward, power and harming your enemy, is not a sufficient motivator to overcome the risk of essence loss, or else there would be more raids. My understanding was that more conflict is something that is desired, after all.
No, smobs are MacGuffins to be attacked or defended with RP attached, for you only. For other people, it is other things. Stop pushing your own agendas and ideas on other people, because not everyone has the same ideas as you do. You have to acknowledge that people WILL stop defending their smobs if collectibles become a reward, and you have to acknowledge that some who don't usually raid WILL start raiding to the point of harrassment for nothing more than the reward.
I'm pretty sure that my statement was very general: smobs are mechanically MacGuffins to be attacked or defended, and have personal RP attached, whatever that may be. I'm not sure how you can call that untrue. I'm certainly not pushing an agenda on you. Why would people stop defending their own smobs if there was a reward attached to killing their enemies'? That makes no sense. The frequency of raids would probably increase, yes. To the point of harassment? I'm not so sure. The point stands that the current smob reward, power and harming your enemy, is not a sufficient motivator to overcome the risk of essence loss, or else there would be more raids. My understanding was that more conflict is something that is desired, after all.
You're missing something major here, and that is this fact: Every time it is deemed too "easy" to kill supermobs, they get buffed to make it harder.
It is, by design, supposed to be discouraged to attack or raid them on any regular basis at this point.
You're missing something major here, and that is this fact: Every time it is deemed too "easy" to kill supermobs, they get buffed to make it harder.
It is, by design, supposed to be discouraged to attack or raid them on any regular basis at this point.
They don't want them to be murdered every 7 days.
Never mind that gathering the people to kill smobs can be a problem too. We did go to Celestia after killing the Moon Avatars and we couldn't kill even one... with the same amount of people. True, there were plane effects going which made it harder, but really, if there were people to raise effects on EtherWilde, we probably wouldn't have managed Avatars either.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I'd venture to say we are discouraged to raid snobs at all any more. Other than the rare occasion we feel like a challenge and have a few million essence to throw away.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Smobs...
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Ps avatars are easier than supernals. For whatever reason.
Avatars are supposed to be stronger, yes. However, there were more raiders during the EthWilde raid, plus the fact that a lot of those raiders weren't affected by discretionaries.
I'm pretty sure that my statement was very general: smobs are mechanically MacGuffins to be attacked or defended, and have personal RP attached, whatever that may be. I'm not sure how you can call that untrue. I'm certainly not pushing an agenda on you. Why would people stop defending their own smobs if there was a reward attached to killing their enemies'? That makes no sense. The frequency of raids would probably increase, yes. To the point of harassment? I'm not so sure. The point stands that the current smob reward, power and harming your enemy, is not a sufficient motivator to overcome the risk of essence loss, or else there would be more raids. My understanding was that more conflict is something that is desired, after all.
Mechanically, smobs are also quest givers, essence converters, skill/ability enablers for wiccans/guardians and mobshells for the admin to control during events, amongst other things as well. Just because you are highlighting two out of their multiple aspects for your agenda doesn't make those two aspects the most important aspects that we should consider them in, as your posts have appeared to be pushing for. It's simply illogical to reduce the smobs to those two things and call it a day, because that's simply the way you prioritse the roles that they play. That's in no way a general standard that everyone is held to.
To be fair, I will admit to exaggerating: there certainly won't be a sudden spike in raids just with collectibles added to either succesfully raiding or defending. Raids and raid viability is tied to a huge amount of other vectors, and greedy as some people may be for curios, adding them to smob raids in any form probably won't be enough to overcome the huge amount of other factors that together contribute to this current status quo of infrequent smob raids. Basically, adding curios won't result in a suddenly worse environment, but neither will it do anything to put the status quo into a state which you profess to desire: more raids but not to the extent of harrassment. And then there is, as Xenthos mentions, the fact that this status quo is apparently one that the admin wish to maintain in the first place. As a matter of fact, it is also a status quo that many people are happy with, myself included. You're going to have to do more than over-simplify smobs to convince anyone to support a change aimed at increasing smob raid frequencies.
@Celina And I'd counter with you're wrong for oversimplifying conflict resolution and we'll just spiral out into a tangential argument, so let's just say we'll both never convince each other and move on with playing the game [much like the thread has]
@Synkarin That was more my own oversimplification [hence the quotes], there's a lot of ideological overlap between Glom and Halli [both of which I'm rather familiar with personally] so I probably should have used the word 'consumptive'.
Now what was this thread for again, I forget.
.oO---~---Oo.
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Comments
Something about collectibles is just very compelling to certain people.
If more raids were desired, the penalty for raiding would be reduced.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
You're also ignoring the fact that this is supposed to be an RP game. Yes, eliminating the penalties for smob raiding and replacing them with collectibles would really upset people because instead of the foundations of their characters religions, smobs would be just item dispensers with no meaning.
EDIT: And then there's also the part where we get to pat ourselves on the back and go... "Woo, we sure kicked their butts."
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Every time it is deemed too "easy" to kill supermobs, they get buffed to make it harder.
It is, by design, supposed to be discouraged to attack or raid them on any regular basis at this point.
They don't want them to be murdered every 7 days.
Never mind that gathering the people to kill smobs can be a problem too. We did go to Celestia after killing the Moon Avatars and we couldn't kill even one... with the same amount of people. True, there were plane effects going which made it harder, but really, if there were people to raise effects on EtherWilde, we probably wouldn't have managed Avatars either.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
To be fair, I will admit to exaggerating: there certainly won't be a sudden spike in raids just with collectibles added to either succesfully raiding or defending. Raids and raid viability is tied to a huge amount of other vectors, and greedy as some people may be for curios, adding them to smob raids in any form probably won't be enough to overcome the huge amount of other factors that together contribute to this current status quo of infrequent smob raids. Basically, adding curios won't result in a suddenly worse environment, but neither will it do anything to put the status quo into a state which you profess to desire: more raids but not to the extent of harrassment. And then there is, as Xenthos mentions, the fact that this status quo is apparently one that the admin wish to maintain in the first place. As a matter of fact, it is also a status quo that many people are happy with, myself included. You're going to have to do more than over-simplify smobs to convince anyone to support a change aimed at increasing smob raid frequencies.
@Synkarin That was more my own oversimplification [hence the quotes], there's a lot of ideological overlap between Glom and Halli [both of which I'm rather familiar with personally] so I probably should have used the word 'consumptive'.
Now what was this thread for again, I forget.
NARF!