I wonder if by "no setup" you mean "the defender was an un-deffed person, while the attacker was a fully min-maxed ascendant with a large amount of dmp and buffs"
If so, then yes. I asked you earlier about how your Terror Coven Nightgaze(?) was hitting Wobou (fully deffed psymet tattooed monk) for 2k+.
2k+ < 5k+ and it only hits one person at a time and is stopped by silly things called shields since a terror coven is usually used from a safe distant location.
It's pretty much apples and oranges you are talking about here, so not really sure why you are comparing. Vacuum is more comparable to other chemantic/wildewood skills or pollution/maelstrom etc.
catalysts are also stopped by shields, and I'm pretty sure vacuum is no exception. It also drops 2-4 "demense effects".
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
catalysts are also stopped by shields, and I'm pretty sure vacuum is no exception. It also drops 2-4 "demense effects".
not really sure what more you are trying to prove, ok, it's stopped by shields. great. How feasible is it to shield during combat and how hard is it for a -chemancer to wait to nullify a shield right before it hits? or someone raze, or someone generally hinder preventing a shield to begin with? It's a big difference when you are getting hit by a ranged attack where they literally can't strip your shield and being hit (along with all your allies) in a room with your enemy actively hindering you.
I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. We have an undeffed person who was killed by a min-max'd VA. End of story.
Is the damage massive? Sure. Could it using toning down? Possibly. It's not like Aerochemantics has a whole lot of offensive things besides four fields and catalysts.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. We have an undeffed person who was killed by a min-max'd VA. End of story.
Is the damage massive? Sure. Could it using toning down? Possibly. It's not like Aerochemantics has a whole lot of offensive things besides four fields and catalysts.
You realize that you are defending (quite strenuously, in fact) a skill that did 5,333 damage to me fully deffed, yes? With no afflictions. While, at the same time, doing the following: 1) Doing it from a completely different room and 2) Hitting everyone in the room at the same time.
And you're comparing it to a 2k damage Nightkiss to make it seem better.
Oh my gosh guys, This came after you lost a revolt. Why are you making rage threads? Why not bring this up later after you haven't been hit by the skill?
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Because it was brought up, and subsequently nerfed the moment Aquachemancers figured out how to use it..and here we are again riding the same merry go round?
Really not the place for petty and misplaced remarks, Morbo. No one here lost to it. Morshoth isn't the one asking for a change. Plus the fact that our side is going to get our own version so it's a fairly non partisan change. You can't really same the same, can you?
my point was how terrible an argument it is to say "this came after the skill was used against you, therefore it is a rage thread".
My only "argument" is that I had higher expectations of a guy who is vigorously defending something which is pretty clearly not at all similar to what he's comparing it to. I'm pretty well known for pointing out such flaws!
To be fair Morshoth's tweet was directly pointed at the damage bomb, it didn't turn into a 3 way rant about how Gaudiguch has sucky skills and how the envoys are a flawed system.
I mean maybe I'm crazy, but a tweet about a single topic =\= entire thread about 3 different things.
Plus side, least OP reality can't instakill you, eh eh.
I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. We have an undeffed person who was killed by a min-max'd VA. End of story.
Is the damage massive? Sure. Could it using toning down? Possibly. It's not like Aerochemantics has a whole lot of offensive things besides four fields and catalysts.
You realize that you are defending (quite strenuously, in fact) a skill that did 5,333 damage to me fully deffed, yes? With no afflictions. While, at the same time, doing the following: 1) Doing it from a completely different room and 2) Hitting everyone in the room at the same time.
And you're comparing it to a 2k damage Nightkiss to make it seem better.
I'm just a wee bit surprised with you here.
Why, yes. Linking with people does increase the range, and doing it in a meld increases the damage. Your point?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Is this actually an issue though, I mean you guys conveniently posted this...call for balance immediately after losing your domoth because of (what you perceive to be) this. It's pretty understandable that you guys don't have cooler heads at the moment.
posted for context
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Nothing like someone who instantly accuses people of bias and being stupid because they simply disagree with them to sit here and call out doublestandard.
Why isn't there a report for thinktank in the special report? It seems like this was a known issue, yet nothing is being done to address it, and all the reports seem to be nothing but buffs.
edit: Neither Shuyin or myself were at this revolt (it ended right as I logged on and deffed up) so I don't really feel we're upset and raging. I mean I haven't said once that it was OP and too much, just that you can't really compare it to nightgaze. My comment in this thread is in response to Ciaran saying it is too much. So yeah, context. cool
I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. We have an undeffed person who was killed by a min-max'd VA. End of story.
Is the damage massive? Sure. Could it using toning down? Possibly. It's not like Aerochemantics has a whole lot of offensive things besides four fields and catalysts.
You realize that you are defending (quite strenuously, in fact) a skill that did 5,333 damage to me fully deffed, yes? With no afflictions. While, at the same time, doing the following: 1) Doing it from a completely different room and 2) Hitting everyone in the room at the same time.
And you're comparing it to a 2k damage Nightkiss to make it seem better.
I'm just a wee bit surprised with you here.
Why, yes. Linking with people does increase the range, and doing it in a meld increases the damage. Your point?
You can't even boulderblast from a room away anymore, and that did ~1100 damage at most to everyone at the room.
Defending something that does 5k+ from a ranged room? Its boulderblast on crack.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. We have an undeffed person who was killed by a min-max'd VA. End of story.
Is the damage massive? Sure. Could it using toning down? Possibly. It's not like Aerochemantics has a whole lot of offensive things besides four fields and catalysts.
You realize that you are defending (quite strenuously, in fact) a skill that did 5,333 damage to me fully deffed, yes? With no afflictions. While, at the same time, doing the following: 1) Doing it from a completely different room and 2) Hitting everyone in the room at the same time.
And you're comparing it to a 2k damage Nightkiss to make it seem better.
I'm just a wee bit surprised with you here.
Why, yes. Linking with people does increase the range, and doing it in a meld increases the damage. Your point?
Easy point: You cannot defend a skill that one person fires off that does 5,333 (or more!) damage to everyone in a room from a completely different rooom by comparing it to another skill that one person fires which does 2k damage to one individual in a different room.
PS: You can't Terror Coven without at least 4 other linked users either, so, the linked part doesn't matter at all in this comparison. You've got one skill, fired by one user regardless of who else is in the room on their end both ways... and that's where the comparison ends. From there they diverge so wildly that trying to make any sort of comparison between them is just plain silly.
You guys make me sick. The double standard is ridiculous.
The issue is with thinktank. An aerochem thinktanking with an aeromancer boosts the damage to insane levels, and it needs to be nerfed.
But I think some of you need to step back and take a look at your biases. People on both sides of the isle.
I'm sorry, but no. No one in Morbo's thread tried to dismiss Morbo out of hand, that was just what certain folks, including Morbo just now, tried to spin it as. What was said, and you and anyone else can go back and read it at any time, is that the context of his complaint should be considered and is relevant. And the fact that he only brought it up after his "side" lost to it is and remains a relevant fact to consider when assessing his arguments.
edit; Plus there is no biases in this argument. This sort of nerf affects everyone. It is the definition of non partisan. We get these skills too.
except it can be resisted, you can hinder/kill the reality guy before he can do it, stay shielded when he jumped in unless you are throwing a web or a stun. Several things you can do to 'counter' reality, just as you can 'counter' fearaura with walls, being off bal etc.
catalysts are also stopped by shields, and I'm pretty sure vacuum is no exception. It also drops 2-4 "demense effects".
not really sure what more you are trying to prove, ok, it's stopped by shields. great. How feasible is it to shield during combat and how hard is it for a -chemancer to wait to nullify a shield right before it hits? or someone raze, or someone generally hinder preventing a shield to begin with? It's a big difference when you are getting hit by a ranged attack where they literally can't strip your shield and being hit (along with all your allies) in a room with your enemy actively hindering you.
Fascinating.
Also, I'm not our envoy. I believe I sent a message to Tulemrah suggesting that Thinktank be looked at, but I haven't gotten to test the numbers specifically, so I may not have.
Edit: Also, guilty conscience much? I didn't name anyone. I was largely indicting my fellow Hallifaxians for defending the skill.
It's ok you guys. I'm sure there's no problem with it. Certainly those who currently have access to it view no problems with a 5k+ ranged, room-wide attack. After all, it's the victim's fault for not being able to tank that, def'd-up or otherwise.
I just wonder how long this opinion lasts the moment some nameless min-maxer on the other side of the spectrum starts using it prolifically.
Surely it will still be widely considered alright.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
except it can be resisted, you can hinder/kill the reality guy before he can do it, stay shielded when he jumped in unless you are throwing a web or a stun. Several things you can do to 'counter' reality, just as you can 'counter' fearaura with walls, being off bal etc.
catalysts are also stopped by shields, and I'm pretty sure vacuum is no exception. It also drops 2-4 "demense effects".
not really sure what more you are trying to prove, ok, it's stopped by shields. great. How feasible is it to shield during combat and how hard is it for a -chemancer to wait to nullify a shield right before it hits? or someone raze, or someone generally hinder preventing a shield to begin with? It's a big difference when you are getting hit by a ranged attack where they literally can't strip your shield and being hit (along with all your allies) in a room with your enemy actively hindering you.
Fascinating.
Also, I'm not our envoy. I believe I sent a message to Tulemrah suggesting that Thinktank be looked at, but I haven't gotten to test the numbers specifically, so I may not have.
Edit: Also, guilty conscience much? I didn't name anyone. I was largely indicting my fellow Hallifaxians for defending the skill.
Get some perspective bub.
No, not really. Overly presumptive, perhaps....but I'm not sure how quoting Sidd is indicting Hallifaxians. :P
except it can be resisted, you can hinder/kill the reality guy before he can do it, stay shielded when he jumped in unless you are throwing a web or a stun. Several things you can do to 'counter' reality, just as you can 'counter' fearaura with walls, being off bal etc.
catalysts are also stopped by shields, and I'm pretty sure vacuum is no exception. It also drops 2-4 "demense effects".
not really sure what more you are trying to prove, ok, it's stopped by shields. great. How feasible is it to shield during combat and how hard is it for a -chemancer to wait to nullify a shield right before it hits? or someone raze, or someone generally hinder preventing a shield to begin with? It's a big difference when you are getting hit by a ranged attack where they literally can't strip your shield and being hit (along with all your allies) in a room with your enemy actively hindering you.
Fascinating.
Also, I'm not our envoy. I believe I sent a message to Tulemrah suggesting that Thinktank be looked at, but I haven't gotten to test the numbers specifically, so I may not have.
I'll bite
Vacuum (and relevant -chemancy skills) are delayed cast major damage skills, which you can start, then run into a room, raze/hinder etc and have big damage hit the entire group.
Reality (the way it's used and is complained about) is Shuyin, by himself, running in, and using it once to spread people all over an area.
I'm not sure what you're trying to sit here and say Ciaran, two different skills are able to use shield as defense differently. Once a vacuum gets going, it's easy enough to time to raze/nullify etc, where if Shuyin jumps into a room to reality, you can stay shielded for a second, and then hinder/prevent him from realitying. Do you disagree with this or are you saying it's incredibly feasible to shield while in the middle of group combat?
I'm sure when the Blacktalon get it in a few weeks and Celina goes back to the guild, all the whining will end.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Can we get Aerochemantics damaged turned down already? Walked into one of their attacks just after dying (so no afflictions), brought me down from 6100 to 800.
This implies you also didn't have defenses up which makes a fair difference.
However, it is 50% asphyxiation, leaves a message in the room, and sends a message when it's activated. I'll leave it up to you to figure out how you can get 200 DMP instantly to cut the damage in half.
Actually, this doesn't imply that as all, as I had put them up in the havens.
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"But paradise is locked and bolted...
We must make a journey around the world
to see if a back door has perhaps been left open."
-Heinrich Von Kleist, "On the Puppet Theater"
Is the damage massive? Sure. Could it using toning down? Possibly. It's not like Aerochemantics has a whole lot of offensive things besides four fields and catalysts.
1) Doing it from a completely different room and
2) Hitting everyone in the room at the same time.
And you're comparing it to a 2k damage Nightkiss to make it seem better.
I'm just a wee bit surprised with you here.
Or, you know, you can try to /divert.
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PS: You can't Terror Coven without at least 4 other linked users either, so, the linked part doesn't matter at all in this comparison. You've got one skill, fired by one user regardless of who else is in the room on their end both ways... and that's where the comparison ends. From there they diverge so wildly that trying to make any sort of comparison between them is just plain silly.
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