I can almost promise you that xp loss isn't the reason defenders decide "it's not worth it".
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
It certainly doesn't hurt though. If you don't lose xp, those crazy ideas which might not work get slightly less crazy.
3
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I can absolutely xp loss is not the reason people don't defend. It's 2 things...
1) Mindsets. New players, in some orgs, have been raised with the "why bother" mindset, so naturally they keep it as older players. Just mope and whine about mechanical changes so you can design another hat/frolick with the squirrels/mudsex in peace and quiet.
2) Skewed mechanics. There isn't just a rift between the average PKer and the tippity top tier. It's a chasm, a veritable canyon. Crossing said canyon can be very discouraging, especially when the guy on the other side of the canyon can squash you like a wormy apple without breaking a sweat. I will admit to something I don't often admit to, when I have all my buffs running, I'm 2 or 3 shotting your average to above average PKers. In group fights, I will just target the Average Joe Pkers and Nightgaze my way through them like a flaming chainsaw through butter. It's absolutely effortless, and demonstrative of some pretty gaping holes in our system. I'm not saying it's like I can do it every now and again. It's constant, and I'm hardly the only one.
That being said, the canyon can be crossed if you try. Daebach and some other kid totally ripped me a new one by leaning on some solid (albeit cheezy, but hey...I'm practically cheeze-whiz) team tactics. I know they walloped Sidd too at one point.
2
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
For example, there was one fight in Faethorn not too long ago where I killed 3 people in a row with 2 nightgazes and a beast psionicblast. Midbies, in the 80s or 90s with 5kish health. I know Yarith has been working how to get better, as another example. I accidentally gazed him to death with 2 hits when I sparred him. I was trying to go for the toad so he could learn but I gazed him once to force the sip, and then I hit the wrong button because my assess/lash and assess/gaze are next to one another. He died.
That being said, the canyon can be crossed if you try. Daebach and some other kid totally ripped me a new one by leaning on some solid (albeit cheezy, but hey...I'm practically cheeze-whiz) team tactics. I know they walloped Sidd too at one point.
Remove the XP for deaths on org territory, cut down the XP loss for enemy territory, up the death timer and rewrite the Avenger law for enemy territory so that if you're attacked by someone on your PK bully list, it clears them off (and readds them if you kill them).
PK is then free for defenders to partake in, and less punishing for people who want to PK but don't have the time to bash, and opens the avenues where PvP can happen.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I would defend, (as somebody who doesn't combat at all) if there was no xp loss.
Just sayin.
I feel as if everyone should defend their orgs, combatant or not, up until the point where it just doesn't look like it's worth it anymore. I get that sometimes a raid just gets too stacked and you say "Alright, I've died enough and this is no fun. Let's just take the loss now". But I feel like there's just no justification at all ICly for not defending your organization if you would do it otherwise with no xp loss....
Remove the XP for deaths on org territory, cut down the XP loss for enemy territory, up the death timer and rewrite the Avenger law for enemy territory so that if you're attacked by someone on your PK bully list, it clears them off (and readds them if you kill them).
PK is then free for defenders to partake in, and less punishing for people who want to PK but don't have the time to bash, and opens the avenues where PvP can happen.
Frankly, as a non-com, I'd prefer it if you'd be able to defend yourself from attacks if someone on your bully list attacks you, but clearing it outright might be a step too far. That might make people less likely to defend their home territory against someone who have killed them in the past. Perhaps a better rewrite would be "if they attack an enemy on their home territory, all enemies are now allowed to attack them"? That'd mean that people who don't take part in combat (and thus never attacks an enemy) are still protected, but anyone actively participating in the defense is also open to attack from the raiders.
XP is much much much easier to come by than it was back in the day, like stupidly so, and there was a greater PK culture back in those days, with the same xp loss for defenders (raider xp loss has gone significantly up).
If 150k essence (death+phoenix off prime, 300k for ascendants but they get special abilities so screw them) is too much of a loss to defend, then you need a serious reality check.
The mentality has changed, and a good number of people simply aren't buying the "PK is great, just don't mind the XP/essence loss of your first 20 deaths while you get a taste for it" pitch. Games constantly evolve to adapt to the playerbase, and some orgs, and the players in those org aren't like the ones "back in the day."
Personally I'm in the camp that XP/essence is replacable, and deaths are a minor, minor setback. But I'm all for finding ways to encourage more people to get involved moreso than I am going "It's fine, don't worry about it."
Edit: Should point out this would only be free deaths for people on their org territory. If there's a raid on Etherseren and Joe Bloggs of Celest turns up and gets destroed to hell because he's a merian with no fire DMP, he's still going to bite the xp/essence loss.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I agree the mindset has changed, Complain for Change!
No more xp loss! No more consequences, no more having to work to do well at this game! It's too hard to be expected to suffer any consequences to your actions!
Yes, sounds fun! But only if we get the RP equivalent too. To be fair.
Prestige for EVERYONE!!!
But seriously, this isn't the first time raiding has been complained about and changes have been implemented to 'fix it' and boom, you have current day situation, where yet people are STILL complaining about raiding and how life is sooooo hard on them because they don't like it and don't feel they should have to deal with the consequences of defending, or bashing, or influencing (how ridiculous is influencing now a days anyway). No matter what changes are made, people will complain because the mindset is right there, that mindset being 'it's obviously unfair because they have this this and this skill and we don't hmph, why should I bother because I can't possibly beat them'
How about we work on a new mindset, one where people unbunch their panties, take a deep breath, realize it's a game, have fun with it, learn from losses and try to improve. It doesn't matter if you lose 150k essence or 12 spheres, the game will go on and you'll continue to grow and learn stuff and write plays and everything else.
How about we work on a new mindset, one where people unbunch their panties, take a deep breath, realize it's a game, have fun with it, learn from losses and try to improve. It doesn't matter if you lose 150k essence or 12 spheres, the game will go on and you'll continue to grow and learn stuff and write plays and everything else.
I love your optimism and like your ideas, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
The idea I had was if there's ways for them to dip a toe in the water so to speak, people will realise PK is nowhere near as scary/bad/horrible/not fun/not worth it/overly complicated/totally one sided/bias in favour of the other side/nothing but headache, heartache and incoming rage/not worth it unless you empty your life savings into credits etc as some people have the wrong perspective in.
And there's no real way to throw them in the deep end by force. The phrase "lead a horse to water" springs to mind.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I would defend, (as somebody who doesn't combat at all) if there was no xp loss.
Just sayin.
I feel as if everyone should defend their orgs, combatant or not, up until the point where it just doesn't look like it's worth it anymore. I get that sometimes a raid just gets too stacked and you say "Alright, I've died enough and this is no fun. Let's just take the loss now". But I feel like there's just no justification at all ICly for not defending your organization if you would do it otherwise with no xp loss....
This is a game, one that I play, primarily because I want to have fun.
I don't find bashing fun. I don't find influencing fun.
I especially don't like watching the essence that I have so carefully hoarded, doing things that I don't find fun, vanish because somebody decided that I was in their way and should die for it.
I even less like the idea of putting myself into a situation where I am *voluntarily* throwing myself at those people, repeatedly, and watch the numbers go down exponentially.
I do like the idea of defending my home. I tend to play very patriotic characters. However, the truth of the matter is I just cannot wrap my head around combat. I have tried on multiple occasions with many, many different classes. It's just too much for me. And I don't have the money to spend on a system that can cut down the combat spam enough to see what exactly is happening, nor do I have the coding skills to make my own offensive. Combat is not fun for me, it's frustrating and makes me want to do anything other than be logged into Lusternia
If I'm online while there's raiding, I do whatever I can to support the defenders, without joining the actual defense. Is this subpar? Absolutely.
Now, if I could join in the defense without feeling punished for trying to do the right thing? It's a no brainer, and I would do it in a heartbeat.
A whisper from the trees and a frosty presence tells you, secretly, "But you are strong, little
flower, and wise." The voice shifts and expands, becoming more real. "And everything you just said
in the ritual made me feel safer. You should, too."
I always defended, because it seemed wrong for my very loyal, patriotic character to not do everything she could to defend her home. And I hated it, with a passion, but I enjoyed staying true to my character more than standing about twiddling my thumbs while everyone else defended Nil or whatever.
No one can force you to pk. But like everything in the game, there are consequences for every action or non-action. Just like someone who doesn't like to rp very much is still going to have opinions drawn about them for only wanting to fight.
I agree with Munsia though, that saying you'd defend if it didn't cost you anything is balls. It doesn't cost much, if you were interested you'd do it anyway, and if you're not going to enjoy it, you're not going to do it because it's not fun, right?
Death is really not a big deal. Took me a long time to learn that, but it's not.
'Have fun' from what you're saying equates to being handed everything. Once again this leads to the problem with people in the gaming industry who just want their hand held through everything. You want no challenge in the games, you just want the system to pander to you. I truly hate gamers like that.
If you don't want to lose xp, then don't fight. It's as easy as that. However removing xp loss is asinine. Same problem with much of the streamlining that's been happening, the newer generation demands the dumbest things. Please, just go play farmville.
You can disagree with me all you want on this subject, but the point that is 100% Fact is that you don't wanna work for anything in this game.
Comments
Signature!
I can absolutely xp loss is not the reason people don't defend. It's 2 things...
1) Mindsets. New players, in some orgs, have been raised with the "why bother" mindset, so naturally they keep it as older players. Just mope and whine about mechanical changes so you can design another hat/frolick with the squirrels/mudsex in peace and quiet.
2) Skewed mechanics. There isn't just a rift between the average PKer and the tippity top tier. It's a chasm, a veritable canyon. Crossing said canyon can be very discouraging, especially when the guy on the other side of the canyon can squash you like a wormy apple without breaking a sweat. I will admit to something I don't often admit to, when I have all my buffs running, I'm 2 or 3 shotting your average to above average PKers. In group fights, I will just target the Average Joe Pkers and Nightgaze my way through them like a flaming chainsaw through butter. It's absolutely effortless, and demonstrative of some pretty gaping holes in our system. I'm not saying it's like I can do it every now and again. It's constant, and I'm hardly the only one.
That being said, the canyon can be crossed if you try. Daebach and some other kid totally ripped me a new one by leaning on some solid (albeit cheezy, but hey...I'm practically cheeze-whiz) team tactics. I know they walloped Sidd too at one point.
For example, there was one fight in Faethorn not too long ago where I killed 3 people in a row with 2 nightgazes and a beast psionicblast. Midbies, in the 80s or 90s with 5kish health. I know Yarith has been working how to get better, as another example. I accidentally gazed him to death with 2 hits when I sparred him. I was trying to go for the toad so he could learn but I gazed him once to force the sip, and then I hit the wrong button because my assess/lash and assess/gaze are next to one another. He died.
PK is then free for defenders to partake in, and less punishing for people who want to PK but don't have the time to bash, and opens the avenues where PvP can happen.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Frankly, as a non-com, I'd prefer it if you'd be able to defend yourself from attacks if someone on your bully list attacks you, but clearing it outright might be a step too far. That might make people less likely to defend their home territory against someone who have killed them in the past. Perhaps a better rewrite would be "if they attack an enemy on their home territory, all enemies are now allowed to attack them"? That'd mean that people who don't take part in combat (and thus never attacks an enemy) are still protected, but anyone actively participating in the defense is also open to attack from the raiders.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Personally I'm in the camp that XP/essence is replacable, and deaths are a minor, minor setback. But I'm all for finding ways to encourage more people to get involved moreso than I am going "It's fine, don't worry about it."
Edit: Should point out this would only be free deaths for people on their org territory. If there's a raid on Etherseren and Joe Bloggs of Celest turns up and gets destroed to hell because he's a merian with no fire DMP, he's still going to bite the xp/essence loss.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
The idea I had was if there's ways for them to dip a toe in the water so to speak, people will realise PK is nowhere near as scary/bad/horrible/not fun/not worth it/overly complicated/totally one sided/bias in favour of the other side/nothing but headache, heartache and incoming rage/not worth it unless you empty your life savings into credits etc as some people have the wrong perspective in.
And there's no real way to throw them in the deep end by force. The phrase "lead a horse to water" springs to mind.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
No one can force you to pk. But like everything in the game, there are consequences for every action or non-action. Just like someone who doesn't like to rp very much is still going to have opinions drawn about them for only wanting to fight.
I agree with Munsia though, that saying you'd defend if it didn't cost you anything is balls. It doesn't cost much, if you were interested you'd do it anyway, and if you're not going to enjoy it, you're not going to do it because it's not fun, right?
Death is really not a big deal. Took me a long time to learn that, but it's not.